Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Ken
?
Unfortunately the replacement for the FT-817/818 is already on the market.? However it’s made by Icom.
?
My 817 won’t be coming on the market any time soon… well while I am alive anyway.
?
Simon? ZL2FAE
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Sent from for Windows
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From: Ken N2VIP
Sent: Thursday, 12 January 2023 4:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ft817] Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
?
I have often described the FT-817/818 as a perfectly balanced set of compromises, and almost any changes would be viewed negatively by someone in the community (I remember list members that were almost angry
when the FT-818 was released with the TCXO included from the factory, and let's not forget the battery-killing extra watt/revised power output levels in the updated FT-818, why it made life difficult for folks that used the FT-817/818 to drive microwave transverters,
etc).
With well over a quarter-million FT-817/818 sold, there are plenty to be had on the second-hand market until it's actual, proper replacement comes along...
Ken, N2VIP
> On Jan 11, 2023, at 01:12, Borja Marcos <borjamar@...> wrote:
<snip>
> It is understandable that this small rig gets so much love. The design feat was amazing!
?
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Well personally I love my 817. Had it
for many many years. Got the cw filter from some place in
Huntsville,Ala. Don't think he is in biz anymore. I take mine on
trips to different cites when I travel and make a lot of qso's
on 2 and 440. I have even use it to access the satellites.
Worked pretty good. Would not park with my 817. The cw filter I
got is great.
Just my 2 cent's worth.
73's Dave NU4N and NU4N/qrp
On 1/11/2023 11:52 AM, Ken N2VIP wrote:
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Speak for yourself!
Ken, N2VIP
On Jan 11, 2023, at 11:18, Brian Morrison <bdm@...> wrote:
?On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 08:14:53 +1100
"Eric van de Weyer" <groups.io@...> wrote:
Time marches on – just as well we’re no longer reliant on the coherer!
We're not?
--
Brian Morrison G8SEZ
--
73's de NU4N Dave
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Baofengs HTs are SDRs. Ken, N2VIP
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On Jan 11, 2023, at 11:35, Ron Wright via groups.io <lt_wright_flg@...> wrote:
? Just for information a rig that is SDR does not mean it has tunable filters or newer tech except it is more of being computer controlled.? SDR means the operating system is in firmware and can be updated usually with a SD memory card.
The tech for tunable IF/direct sampling filters and other newer operating parameters like noise reduction is in DSP, Digital Signal Processing.? This is done in hardware.
Today few rigs are not SDR and most have DSP, some at the IF level, few like the IC7300, IC7610, FTDX101 at direct sampling of the incoming signal.? Other older rigs like the Icom IC756Pro, IC7200, IC7410, FTDX10, X6100, and G90 and some others have DSP at the IF level.? Icom had IF DSP with the IC756Orig serues in the 1990s when Yaesu was still working with IF filters as in the FT1000 series.
73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC
Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@...
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 12:18:09 PM EST, Brian Morrison <bdm@...> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 08:14:53 +1100 "Eric van de Weyer" < groups.io@...> wrote: > > Time marches on – just as well we’re no longer reliant on the coherer! We're not? -- Brian Morrison? G8SEZ
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Speak for yourself!
Ken, N2VIP
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On Jan 11, 2023, at 11:18, Brian Morrison <bdm@...> wrote:
?On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 08:14:53 +1100
"Eric van de Weyer" <groups.io@...> wrote:
Time marches on – just as well we’re no longer reliant on the coherer!
We're not?
--
Brian Morrison G8SEZ
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Just for information a rig that is SDR does not mean it has tunable filters or newer tech except it is more of being computer controlled.? SDR means the operating system is in firmware and can be updated usually with a SD memory card.
The tech for tunable IF/direct sampling filters and other newer operating parameters like noise reduction is in DSP, Digital Signal Processing.? This is done in hardware.
Today few rigs are not SDR and most have DSP, some at the IF level, few like the IC7300, IC7610, FTDX101 at direct sampling of the incoming signal.? Other older rigs like the Icom IC756Pro, IC7200, IC7410, FTDX10, X6100, and G90 and some others have DSP at the IF level.? Icom had IF DSP with the IC756Orig serues in the 1990s when Yaesu was still working with IF filters as in the FT1000 series.
73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC
Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@...
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 12:18:09 PM EST, Brian Morrison <bdm@...> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 08:14:53 +1100 "Eric van de Weyer" < groups.io@...> wrote: > > Time marches on – just as well we’re no longer reliant on the coherer! We're not? -- Brian Morrison? G8SEZ
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 08:14:53 +1100 "Eric van de Weyer" <groups.io@...> wrote:
Time marches on – just as well we’re no longer reliant on the coherer!
We're not? -- Brian Morrison G8SEZ
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
I have often described the FT-817/818 as a perfectly balanced set of compromises, and almost any changes would be viewed negatively by someone in the community (I remember list members that were almost angry when the FT-818 was released with the TCXO included from the factory, and let's not forget the battery-killing extra watt/revised power output levels in the updated FT-818, why it made life difficult for folks that used the FT-817/818 to drive microwave transverters, etc). With well over a quarter-million FT-817/818 sold, there are plenty to be had on the second-hand market until it's actual, proper replacement comes along... Ken, N2VIP On Jan 11, 2023, at 01:12, Borja Marcos <borjamar@...> wrote: <snip> It is understandable that this small rig gets so much love. The design feat was amazing!
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
On 11 Jan 2023, at 14:03, John <ve3ips@...> wrote:
Borja
I have both the 7200 superhet and the 7300 SDR
The 7200 survived a brief mini tornado downpour whereas the 7300 would have gotten waterlogged
The 7200 seems to be a redone 718 but the 7300 has better blocking performance but tends to be a noise magnet and overloads more easily in a multi radio environment like field day. Sorry, wrong :) Look at the block diagram / schematics. The IC-7200 is a superhet SDR. Yes, it has traditional conversions, a roofing filter… But the last conversion is a digital stage (at the time some called it IF-DSP) with full digital filtering and modulation/demodulation. Remember, SDR means software defined radio, in which RF circuitry is replaced by digital signal processing. A SDR doesn?t need to be necessarily a *full* SDR in which *all* of the signal processing is digital. And no matter how good a SDR implementation is, it still needs a proper front end. Anyway my point was, the IC-7200 is a good example of a transceiver that doesn?t look like a fragile thingie with a flashy screen. It can have traditional controls and it can even be rugged. Actually, it can be made more rugged than a traditional set. The component count is much lower, you save lots of coils that might be points of failure due to damp conditions, etc. 73, Borja EA2EKH
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Borja
I have both the 7200 superhet and the 7300 SDR
The 7200 survived a brief mini tornado downpour whereas the 7300 would have gotten waterlogged
The 7200 seems to be a redone 718 but the 7300 has better blocking performance but ?tends to be a noise magnet and overloads more easily in a multi radio environment like field day.
For POTA , the last 3 outings were with the 705 into an RM Italy amp.
I will bring the 818 out next time then try the 703
The 703 is another classic rig that came out when the 817 did.
One has a tuner but needs the external battery where the other can house the Windcamp battery inside. The 817/818 is a great travel radio with its wider coverage means I can leave the HT at home. It fits in my carry on Think Tank camera bag in the side pocket very easily and the 705 kleenex box style radio is harder to fit.
So many “crazy” radios so little time but the japanese bring the best in reliability and quality.?
Yes Elecraft rocks as well but I never felt my KX3 could handle the rain splashing on it and getting into the display.?
For outdoor ops thats important to me.
Now the FT897 with its batteries was brilliant as well.
I just love the modular connector on the 817/818 and the cw filter is a must.
I spent more $$$ at W4RT than the radio itself John VE3IPS
-- Sent with a Palm Pilot.
Radio: it's not just a hobby, it's a way of life
Throw a wire in a tree and go make QSO
Rice Crackers taste better while outdoors
FT8 tap tap is not Ham Radio
-- John VE3IPS Radio is a Lifestyle not a Hobby Oprah added the ARRL Handbook to her list
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
In that case you completely ruined the compact design and form factor of FT817/818… radio + dsp unit + tablet + another accessories …huh ;)
Petr
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Or the spark transmitter, or Grandad's special pencil for drawing
grid leak resistors…
73, Stay Safe, Robin, G8DQX
On 10/01/2023 21:14, Eric van de Weyer
wrote:
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Hi
all,
?
Time
marches on – just as well we’re no longer reliant on the
coherer!
?
73….Eric VK2VE.
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
On 10 Jan 2023, at 20:33, Andy Foad via groups.io <andyfoad@...> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 07:18 PM, Ken N2VIP wrote:
Then, in a startling turn, you attack Collins,
I called out Yeasu for making one company (Collins) it's own Achilles heel in within it's supply chain.
Do you know what an Achilles heel is Ken, and do you know what yours is ? ;-) The problem is, is there an alternative for Collins filters offering a similar performance at that price point? I got the optional SSB filter for my 817 and its performance is unbelievable. Fitting that suddenly you have a completely different radio! 73, Borja, EA2EKH
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
On 10 Jan 2023, at 20:51, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote:
Circa 2000, aside from Collins, did you provide Yaesu with a list of alternate sources for 'slabs of quartz', or was Collins the only supplier still in business?
So if Collins was the only source for 'slabs of quartz' should Yaesu have designed the FT-817, FT-857, and FT-897 without 'slab of quartz' filters?
I guess the real question which is worse, going with a single-source component, or going without 'slab of quartz' filters in the first place? Yaesu's 15+ year run with their single-source component (Collins filters) seems to be a good decision in hindsight. As a matter of fact, the optional Collins filters were mechanical ones, not crystal. Not that it matters though. And unless I am very wrong the rest of the filters are ceramics. It is understandable that this small rig gets so much love. The design feat was amazing! Alas, there are no alternative high quality filters (you can get mediocre ones on eBay but not comparable to the Collins mechanicals) and SDR technology has evolved and got cheaper. SDR is not a magic bullet, it still needs a bombproof analog front end. Moreover, SDR is much more demanding for front ends. But once the signal enters the digital domain you don?t need carefully matched components or delicate adjustments. Look at the performance of an IC-7200 or IC-7300 for instance. Borja, EA2EKH
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Hi all, ? Time marches on – just as well we’re no longer reliant on the coherer! ? 73….Eric VK2VE. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John
Sent: Wednesday, 11 January 2023 02:08
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ft817] Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing? Geert How does the FT-817 become a "crazy design" when they probably sold more of these than any other radio of the past twenty years? What data supports this "crazy" statement? If they cannot get chips then pull the radio off the market to avoid support issues makes perfect sense. Now we will get 10,000 more emails over crystal filters I have made thousands of contacts with the 817 but many think it's all niche market but every month or so? there is a new QRP radio being introduced. I would say the? FT-817 is a brilliant product that many clones could not and have yet to reproduce it's functionality. If I recall?correctly, Yaesu thought they might sell 10,000 units and now this crazy radio has exceeded over 250,000 units. That's crazy. Hiding in a flame proof bag
--
John VE3IPS
Radio is a Lifestyle not a Hobby
Oprah added the ARRL Handbook to her list
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Circa 2000, aside from Collins, did you provide Yaesu with a list of alternate sources for 'slabs of quartz', or was Collins the only supplier still in business?
So if Collins was the only source for 'slabs of quartz' should Yaesu have designed the FT-817, FT-857, and FT-897 without 'slab of quartz' filters?
I guess the real question which is worse, going with a single-source component, or going without 'slab of quartz' filters in the first place? Yaesu's 15+ year run with their single-source component (Collins filters) seems to be a good decision in hindsight. Ken, N2VIP
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On Jan 10, 2023, at 13:33, Andy Foad via groups.io <andyfoad@...> wrote:
?On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 07:18 PM, Ken N2VIP wrote:
Then, in a startling turn, you attack Collins,
I called out Yeasu for making one company (Collins) it's own Achilles heel in within it's supply chain. Do you know what an Achilles heel is Ken, and do you know what yours is ? ;-) Goodbye ! 73 de Andy
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 07:18 PM, Ken N2VIP wrote:
Then, in a startling turn, you attack Collins,
I called out Yeasu for making one company (Collins) it's own Achilles heel in within it's supply chain. Do you know what an Achilles heel is Ken, and do you know what yours is ? ;-) Goodbye ! 73 de Andy
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
Has anyone seen anything about Yaesu being able to continue offering repair service on the FT817's ? Rich, W1GBB
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Ken N2VIP <ken@...> Date: 1/10/23 14:18 (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [ft817] Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
You have a very simplistic view of the industry - you seem to believe that every hard-won technical advancement beyond superhet receivers with 'slabs of quartz' is a step backwards performance-wise and nothing more than an effort to build in planned obsolescence because anything more specific than a generic thru-hole component will ultimately render the device useless when it can't be replaced.
Then, in a startling turn, you attack Collins, the company that represented the state of the art in radio transceiver design when radios were built with your preferred discrete, off-the-shelf components!
My original statement still stands:
Yet, somehow Yaesu can't source filters for their radios...?Yaesu can sell those 'lumps of quartz' for $150/ea, if there was a source, they'd still offer them.
Ken, N2VIP On Jan 10, 2023, at 13:06, Andy Foad via groups.io <andyfoad@...> wrote:
?SDR's are pretty crappy REAL RF rejection.
An SDR is taking everything and only tailoring it's output to end user expectations.
But at the end the DAY, unwanted signals still enter the "front end",there are still screwing up your
total dynamic range algorithms and FFT only sugar coats the problem.
But lumps of quartz have real RF rejection.
A good old fashioned superhet with tradition parts can be fixed.
An obsolete FET or whatever can be easily substituted for something else when it's blown.
A custom IC not publicly available, no chance.
I buy a rig to invest in, not a crappy iphone with built in obsolescence.
Any why is a company like Yaesu with? some 60 year heritage, commercial input from Motorola,
Marantz, Standard Horizon, Sommerkamp etc placing itself at the mercy of ONE single point of failure,
Colllins, a company who's peak was not long after WW2 FFS !
They can easily spend a few $'s, make a simple quartz growing lab and make their own.
It's what the Chinese do every day !!
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
You have a very simplistic view of the industry - you seem to believe that every hard-won technical advancement beyond superhet receivers with 'slabs of quartz' is a step backwards performance-wise and nothing more than an effort to build in planned obsolescence because anything more specific than a generic thru-hole component will ultimately render the device useless when it can't be replaced.
Then, in a startling turn, you attack Collins, the company that represented the state of the art in radio transceiver design when radios were built with your preferred discrete, off-the-shelf components!
My original statement still stands:
Yet, somehow Yaesu can't source filters for their radios...?Yaesu can sell those 'lumps of quartz' for $150/ea, if there was a source, they'd still offer them.
Ken, N2VIP On Jan 10, 2023, at 13:06, Andy Foad via groups.io <andyfoad@...> wrote:
?SDR's are pretty crappy REAL RF rejection.
An SDR is taking everything and only tailoring it's output to end user expectations.
But at the end the DAY, unwanted signals still enter the "front end",there are still screwing up your
total dynamic range algorithms and FFT only sugar coats the problem.
But lumps of quartz have real RF rejection.
A good old fashioned superhet with tradition parts can be fixed.
An obsolete FET or whatever can be easily substituted for something else when it's blown.
A custom IC not publicly available, no chance.
I buy a rig to invest in, not a crappy iphone with built in obsolescence.
Any why is a company like Yaesu with? some 60 year heritage, commercial input from Motorola,
Marantz, Standard Horizon, Sommerkamp etc placing itself at the mercy of ONE single point of failure,
Colllins, a company who's peak was not long after WW2 FFS !
They can easily spend a few $'s, make a simple quartz growing lab and make their own.
It's what the Chinese do every day !!
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
SDR's are pretty crappy for REAL RF rejection.
An SDR is taking everything and only tailoring it's output to end user expectations.
But at the end the DAY, unwanted signals still enter the "front end",there are still screwing up your
total dynamic range algorithms and FFT only sugar coats the problem.
But lumps of quartz have real RF rejection.
A good old fashioned superhet with tradition parts can be fixed.
An obsolete FET or whatever can be easily substituted for something else when it's blown.
A custom IC not publicly available, no chance.
I buy a rig to invest in, not a crappy iphone with built in obsolescence.
Any why is a company like Yaesu with? some 60 year heritage, commercial input from Motorola,
Marantz, Standard Horizon, Sommerkamp etc placing itself at the mercy of ONE single point of failure,
Colllins, a company who's peak was not long after WW2 FFS !
They can easily spend a few $'s, make a simple quartz growing lab and make their own.
It's what the Chinese do every day !!
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Re: Yaesu FT-818ND Discontinued Manufacturing
John,
I read the "crazy" product description as in "crazy, outside the box thinking, design", not bad, wrong, or any other way AT THE TIME IT WAS INTRODUCED.
He also mentioned the ultra-compact FT-90:
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Borja Marcos
John