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Finding a used saw?
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Hello all.
I own a small professional shop and have been using an ancient Unisaw for years.
Well I made a small error and took a very bad cut so now I am about to replace the saw with something safer.
I am passing on the SawStop and have settled on finding one of the Felder offerings.
I slider would be safer and provide needed increased function.
Something in the lineup - from hammer, a 500 or 700 or the CF531 in 2500 wagon.
So question- how tough is it to find a used Saw in the US?
I have a bit of time to look about but not years.
What is the experience here- one can find machines without too much difficulty?
Will I be forced to go hat in hand to Felder and buy new?
Room is tight in the shop so perhaps the CF531would be ideal and I would sell off the MiniMax P/J I have.
Thanks all
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Used Felder equipment comes up pretty regularly, but finding a full combination machine like the CF-700 is pretty rare. ?Thinking back, I think I seen one listed about once per year - if even that frequently. ?You could be in for a long wait, with the machine being sold on the opposite side of the country, complicating delivery/transport, etc.
I have a strongly held view that if you want something as mechanically robust as a SawStop, you should focus on the 700-series machines. ?The 500-series machines are essentially Hammer platforms with an X-Roll slider, and while lots of people achieve great results with them, the guts of the machine doesn’t really compare to the massive double trunion saw assembly on the 700-series.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On May 13, 2023, at 3:02 PM, trboatworks@... wrote:
Hello all.
I own a small professional shop and have been using an ancient Unisaw for years.
Well I made a small error and took a very bad cut so now I am about to replace the saw with something safer.
I am passing on the SawStop and have settled on finding one of the Felder offerings.
I slider would be safer and provide needed increased function.
Something in the lineup - from hammer, a 500 or 700 ?up to say the CF531 in 2500 wagon.
So question- how tough is it to find a used Saw in the US?
I have a bit of time to look about but not years.
What is the experience here- one can find machines without too much difficulty?
Will I be forced to go hat in hand to Felder and buy new?
Room is tight in the shop so perhaps the CF531would be ideal and I would sell off the MiniMax P/J I have.
Thanks all
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I once had a Unisaw. ?To me, what makes a slider the safest saw is having Mac Clamps along with finding ways to cut wood without hand feeding boards using the rip fence. ?You may want to consider the clamps as part of your budget. ?Just my 0.02.
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There is a K3, K940 and a KF 700 on Felder used machine site. These are private sales by individuals. I try to post used machines wherever I find them on my facebook group - link below.
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On May 13, 2023, at 7:51 PM, trboatworks@... wrote:
?Hello all.
I own a small professional shop and have been using an ancient Unisaw for years.
Well I made a small error and took a very bad cut so now I am about to replace the saw with something safer.
I am passing on the SawStop and have settled on finding one of the Felder offerings.
I slider would be safer and provide needed increased function.
Something in the lineup - from hammer, a 500 or 700 ?up to say the CF531 in 2500 wagon.
So question- how tough is it to find a used Saw in the US?
I have a bit of time to look about but not years.
What is the experience here- one can find machines without too much difficulty?
Will I be forced to go hat in hand to Felder and buy new?
Room is tight in the shop so perhaps the CF531would be ideal and I would sell off the MiniMax P/J I have.
Thanks all
Used offerings show up here often. I would suggest you post more details about exactly what you want and where you are located. Price depends on many factors, others here can provide constructive input on value.
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On May 13, 2023, at 18:57, trboatworks@... wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Hello all. I own a small professional shop and have been using an ancient Unisaw for years. Well I made a small error and took a very bad cut so now I am about to replace the saw with something safer. I am passing on the SawStop and have settled on finding one of the Felder offerings. I slider would be safer and provide needed increased function. Something in the lineup - from hammer, a 500 or 700 or the CF531 in 2500 wagon. So question- how tough is it to find a used Saw in the US? I have a bit of time to look about but not years. What is the experience here- one can find machines without too much difficulty? Will I be forced to go hat in hand to Felder and buy new? Room is tight in the shop so perhaps the CF531would be ideal and I would sell off the MiniMax P/J I have. Thanks all
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Mark Foster
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Mark thank you,
On which machine would suit,
I am looking at the 500 and 700 series from just saw to saw/molder to five functions machine.
I am East Coast USA
Ideally I would choose the short cabinet machine with a 2500 wagon and of course as many accessories as one might find.
I have a small but quite capable shop in the marine industry doing shipwrights work as well as general fabrication.
I am sole operating person of the equipment.
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There is an upcoming auction in Keene NH. Tons of amazing equipment including a Martin T71 and an Altendorf F-90
Mark thank you,
On which machine would suit,
I am looking at the 500 and 700 series from just saw to saw/molder to five functions machine.
I am East Coast USA
Ideally I would choose the short cabinet machine with a 2500 wagon and of course as many accessories as one might find.
I have a small but quite capable shop in the marine industry doing shipwrights work as well as general fabrication.
I am sole operating person of the equipment.
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Hi there. There’s someone on this forum (check the posts under the #forsale tag) selling Felder saw-shaper and J/P machines. The seller is in CT. He has also cross-listed on Felder’s used machines marketplace.
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To simplify my search can we say out of hand that there is a leader in the combination machine offerings between Felder and SCM?
Looking at my shop I believe I would at minimum choose a saw/molder.
I have a 12” MiniMax J/P and would consider the five functions machines and sell the J/P.
This leaves me with looking at the KF and CF 500 or 700 machines as well as the equivalent machines from SCM group starting with the CU series.
The J/P I have is the modest ‘Smart’ 30 and honestly it has been a reliable workhorse for the ten years or so I’ve had it in the shop.
If replacing I would like more width.
I Mill mostly teak so I like the Tersa head for its simple option of carbide blades.
Lets say I am going to buy used.
That leaves me really quite free to select as all of these machines are affordable but complicated sometimes by the evolution of features over time.
Felder redesigned the core blade system in the 700 series in 2007?
I guess I am looking at the CF741P vs CU410C or CU410E as being the machines I would choose between as it stands.
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Hi trboat (sorry I missed your name):
Every time you edit your post, I get another email into my inbox. An edit or two seems ok, but I’m getting a lot of emails from you! ?
Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer
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[Edited Message Follows]
To simplify my search can we say out of hand that there is a leader in the combination machine offerings between Felder and SCM?
Looking at my shop I believe I would at minimum choose a saw/molder.
I have a 12” MiniMax J/P and would consider the five functions machines and sell the J/P.
This leaves me with looking at the KF and CF 500 or 700 machines as well as the equivalent machines from SCM group starting with the CU series.
The J/P I have is the modest ‘Smart’ 30 and honestly it has been a reliable workhorse for the ten years or so I’ve had it in the shop.
If replacing I would like more width.
I Mill mostly teak so I like the Tersa head for its simple option of carbide blades.
Lets say I am going to buy used.
That leaves me really quite free to select as all of these machines are affordable but complicated sometimes by the evolution of features over time.
Felder redesigned the core blade system in the 700 series in 2007?
I guess I am looking at the CF741 vs CU410E as being the machines I would choose between as it stands.
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Ah- sorry.
I will rein in my tendency to edit so as to provide as much accuracy as possible.
Once and done I promise.
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Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer
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Ah- sorry.
I will rein in my tendency to edit so as to provide as much accuracy as possible.
Once and done I promise.
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trboat/ to answer you’re real question……………..
No , I don’t think out of hand one can say there is a clear leader in combo machines. ?Both makers have fine offerings with strengths and weaknesses.?
I believe TERSA is still available on both makes too. ?So is a spiral cutter head with carbide segments. ?I cannot say which would be better for teak processing - but I suspect the Tersa wins the more frequently you change cutters.?
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On May 15, 2023, at 7:19 AM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
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Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Ah- sorry.
I will rein in my tendency to edit so as to provide as much accuracy as possible.
Once and done I promise.
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Why would tersa be a better option vs Felder silent power?? With a carbide cutter you can just rotate the cutter…..?
trboat/ to answer you’re real question……………..
No , I don’t think out of hand one can say there is a clear leader in combo machines.? Both makers have fine offerings with strengths and weaknesses.?
I believe TERSA is still available on both makes too.? So is a spiral cutter head with carbide segments.? I cannot say which would be better for teak processing - but I suspect the Tersa wins the more frequently you change cutters.?
D Sent from?iPhone On May 15, 2023, at 7:19 AM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Ah- sorry.
I will rein in my tendency to edit so as to provide as much accuracy as possible.
Once and done I promise.
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Andy,
…possibly because it may be (I am guessing here) easier to install three indexed knives than to rotate 96 cutters?
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"Why would tersa be a better option vs Felder silent power?? With a carbide cutter you can just rotate the cutter….."
Because most people don't value their time at $0 / hr.
By the time you've rotated 2-3 segmented cutters and properly torqued them, the Tersa owner has knocked down a couple of wedges and replaced all 3 or 4 blades on his cutter head and is back to planing.?? So, the more often you need a new cutting edge,? the Tersa user banks time savings at an exponential rate.
I have not conducted a study or seen any data on whether a Tersa knife edge lasts longer than a segmented cutter edge or vice versa? - so I have to hedge my over all cost benefit judgement pending solid data.
D
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One Tersa carbide head is retail at 20-150$+. For my planer it’s 150$.?
It takes a few minutes to turn the segmented heads. You get 4 turns before the head is worn.?
You turn one carbide silent power segment, and while it may take longer. You have 4x the cutting life.
Time is money yes, a silent power cutter head potentially saves 4x Tersa changes or in my case 450$ per full blade change.?
I don’t make 450$ per hour. ?
"Why would tersa be a better option vs Felder silent power?? With a carbide cutter you can just rotate the cutter….."
Because most people don't value their time at $0 / hr.
By the time you've rotated 2-3 segmented cutters and properly torqued them, the Tersa owner has knocked down a couple of wedges and replaced all 3 or 4 blades on his cutter head and is back to planing.?? So, the more often you need a new cutting edge,? the Tersa user banks time savings at an exponential rate.
I have not conducted a study or seen any data on whether a Tersa knife edge lasts longer than a segmented cutter edge or vice versa? - so I have to hedge my over all cost benefit judgement pending solid data.
D
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Andy Swapping knives in a Tersa head is a few minute operation vs. at least an hour plus rotating all the knives on a spiral head. I've heard of people with Tersa having a fresh set they'll just install for a final pass and then put the duller workhorses back in. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Yep. There are lots of ways to view it. Both options are great. I just don’t think one is more cost effective than the other. I can just turn one carbide segment if it gets chipped, Tersa is a quicker wholesale swap.?
On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 10:01 AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Andy Swapping knives in a Tersa head is a few minute operation vs. at least an hour plus rotating all the knives on a spiral head. I've heard of people with Tersa having a fresh set they'll just install for a final pass and then put the duller workhorses back in. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
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Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
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I could make a go of it with a limited the Felder head but the Tersa head is blinding fast- like one minute to change out the blades.
As I said even the modest MiniMax has served well for me.
Time is important but more so simple ease.
I want the machines cutting wood and everything that keeps me in work flow is good.
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David P. Best
imran
Mark Foster
David Luckensmeyer
Jason Holtz