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I was curious if Martin's new 20" Jointer/Planer combo machine would be available for examination at the upcoming AWFS show in Vegas this coming July.? I reached out to one of my insider contacts and discovered something interesting.? Apparently, Martin was planning to bring the T32 tp the USA and get it UL approved, but is now not so certain that this is a good strategy.? It seems the designer of the T32 left Martin sometime back and was the designer of the SCMI ?L-invincibile FS7 (same machine Paul Kelly just got and posted about earlier).?
As it turns out, the SCMI Jointer/Planer is almost identical to the T32, and has advantages over the Martin machine (optional rubber outfeed rollers, digital readout standard, automatic table lift, quick change rollers etc.), and sells for a lot less money.? This is mostly due to SCMI's super logistics and a larger distribution network.?
So although it's not totally settled, it does appear that Martin woke up to competitive landscape will probably not be bringing the T32 into the USA market, and even if they did, the SCMI alternative is a better value with more standard equipment and rubber outfeed rollers.? The attached materials document the FS7 standard/optional equipment, and I've included the full line brochure for their L-invincibile lineup.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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David, Attached is my build sheet with 2022 list pricing as I optioned it. In the US it is a 15hp motor with star-delta soft start.? I really am impressed by it, and as David said, it seemed like Martin was only going to option it with a "Power-Drive" clone which is what I had on the AD-941.? I really wanted a way to program certain thicknesses and to dial in a specific measurement. One more benefit is that the dust extraction port stays on the right and you do not have to lower the planer table to do the changeover.?  PK
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Anybody have an opinion on how the Ti 7 compares with Martin's T27?? When I was in Los Angeles last Christmas I went to SCM's showroom to look at the?L'invincibile ti 7 they had in their showroom to see how it compared to Martin's?T27.? Unfortunately, the only person in the office was their warehouse guy who knew nothing about the shaper.? We tried a Zoom meeting but it wasn't very?effective.
For those that have tilting spindles...do you actually use that feature?
I was curious if Martin's new 20" Jointer/Planer combo machine would be available for examination at the upcoming AWFS show in Vegas this coming July.? I reached out to one of my insider contacts and discovered something interesting.? Apparently, Martin was planning to bring the T32 tp the USA and get it UL approved, but is now not so certain that this is a good strategy.? It seems the designer of the T32 left Martin sometime back and was the designer of the SCMI ?L-invincibile FS7 (same machine Paul Kelly just got and posted about earlier).?
As it turns out, the SCMI Jointer/Planer is almost identical to the T32, and has advantages over the Martin machine (optional rubber outfeed rollers, digital readout standard, automatic table lift, quick change rollers etc.), and sells for a lot less money.? This is mostly due to SCMI's super logistics and a larger distribution network.?
So although it's not totally settled, it does appear that Martin woke up to competitive landscape will probably not be bringing the T32 into the USA market, and even if they did, the SCMI alternative is a better value with more standard equipment and rubber outfeed rollers.? The attached materials document the FS7 standard/optional equipment, and I've included the full line brochure for their L-invincibile lineup.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Hi Dave:
?
I use the tilting feature all the time.
?
- chamfers, usually at 45 degrees
- bevels, sometimes 7 degrees, or 12 degrees, or whatever is required
- panel raiser, I like to adjust the look
- sliding dovetails – usually 7 degrees as that is what I carry in terms of router bit angles
?
When I say “all the time”, of course I use my shaper more “straight” than tilted. But I’d use it tilted say 30% of the time (at a guess). I would dearly miss not having that feature. And quite frankly, if
mine tilted both ways (I have the Profil 45Z x-motion which only tilts one way), I’d use it both ways.
?
Cheers.
?
Warm regards,
Lucky
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
?
Anybody have an opinion on how the Ti 7 compares with Martin's T27?? When I was in Los Angeles last Christmas I went to SCM's showroom to look at the?L'invincibile ti 7 they had in their showroom to see how
it compared to Martin's?T27.? Unfortunately, the only person in the office was their warehouse guy who knew nothing about the shaper.? We tried a Zoom meeting but it wasn't very?effective.
For those that have tilting spindles...do you actually use that feature?
?
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Show quoted text
On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 4:29?PM David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
I was curious if Martin's new 20" Jointer/Planer combo machine would be available for examination at the upcoming AWFS show in Vegas this coming July.? I reached out to one of my insider contacts and discovered
something interesting.? Apparently, Martin was planning to bring the T32 tp the USA and get it UL approved, but is now not so certain that this is a good strategy.? It seems the designer of the T32 left Martin sometime back and was the designer of the SCMI
?L-invincibile FS7 (same machine Paul Kelly just got and posted about earlier).?
As it turns out, the SCMI Jointer/Planer is almost identical to the T32, and has advantages over the Martin machine (optional rubber outfeed rollers, digital readout standard, automatic table lift, quick change rollers etc.), and sells for a lot less money.?
This is mostly due to SCMI's super logistics and a larger distribution network.?
So although it's not totally settled, it does appear that Martin woke up to competitive landscape will probably
not be bringing the T32 into the USA market, and even if they did, the SCMI alternative is a better value with more standard equipment and rubber outfeed rollers.? The attached materials
document the FS7 standard/optional equipment, and I've included the full line brochure for their L-invincibile lineup.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Thanks, Lucky. Dave Davies
On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 7:59?PM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Dave:
?
I use the tilting feature all the time.
?
- chamfers, usually at 45 degrees
- bevels, sometimes 7 degrees, or 12 degrees, or whatever is required
- panel raiser, I like to adjust the look
- sliding dovetails – usually 7 degrees as that is what I carry in terms of router bit angles
?
When I say “all the time”, of course I use my shaper more “straight” than tilted. But I’d use it tilted say 30% of the time (at a guess). I would dearly miss not having that feature. And quite frankly, if
mine tilted both ways (I have the Profil 45Z x-motion which only tilts one way), I’d use it both ways.
?
Cheers.
?
Warm regards,
Lucky
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
?
Anybody have an opinion on how the Ti 7 compares with Martin's T27?? When I was in Los Angeles last Christmas I went to SCM's showroom to look at the?L'invincibile ti 7 they had in their showroom to see how
it compared to Martin's?T27.? Unfortunately, the only person in the office was their warehouse guy who knew nothing about the shaper.? We tried a Zoom meeting but it wasn't very?effective.
For those that have tilting spindles...do you actually use that feature?
?
I was curious if Martin's new 20" Jointer/Planer combo machine would be available for examination at the upcoming AWFS show in Vegas this coming July.? I reached out to one of my insider contacts and discovered
something interesting.? Apparently, Martin was planning to bring the T32 tp the USA and get it UL approved, but is now not so certain that this is a good strategy.? It seems the designer of the T32 left Martin sometime back and was the designer of the SCMI
?L-invincibile FS7 (same machine Paul Kelly just got and posted about earlier).?
As it turns out, the SCMI Jointer/Planer is almost identical to the T32, and has advantages over the Martin machine (optional rubber outfeed rollers, digital readout standard, automatic table lift, quick change rollers etc.), and sells for a lot less money.?
This is mostly due to SCMI's super logistics and a larger distribution network.?
So although it's not totally settled, it does appear that Martin woke up to competitive landscape will probably
not be bringing the T32 into the USA market, and even if they did, the SCMI alternative is a better value with more standard equipment and rubber outfeed rollers.? The attached materials
document the FS7 standard/optional equipment, and I've included the full line brochure for their L-invincibile lineup.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
As many may know I am the Martin dealer for Southern CA. I had sold the Griggio machine to a couple of customers, and they were very happy with it. The machine was a 100% Griggio that was painted in Martin colors and imported by Martin USA. It was a popular machine, as many of the combination jointer planer machines had many disadvantages. This machine was heavy and well made. Martin decided to start making it in Germany and has been selling that in Europe. Since Martin has to abide by the UL listing rules, we would have to certify the electrical components to UL standards. This is important for liability reasons, and some other machinery manufactures do not do this for their machines that are sold here.
I was made aware that the SCMI machine is a virtual copy of the Griggio machine. Martin did add on the Aigner fence and an option for the SUVAmatic guard - both excellent additions to the machine. We are also making the cutterhead in house.
For Martin, we sell far more of the T45 and T54 machines over the combination machine. This is what Martin does best in the market, and is what most customers want. One customer who bought the combo machine since sold it and bought the T45 and T54 machines. He liked the machine, but separates are always going to be much faster and the machines are Martin quality.?
One issue that I did find with the combo was that you had to take off at least .5 mm of stock in order to remove the marks from the in feed roller. Having a rubber in feed roller would be ideal and this is what we use on the T45. You can run a piece through twice without changing the height and it will not mark it. ?I am not sure that the in feed roller on the SCMI can be changed out to rubber. But this may be an issue (David?).
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Thanks for chiming in here Scott. ?I agree with you that the Martin T45 and T54 are clearly the best available jointer planer pair - if you have the floor space and the budget. ?The pair will certainly net out to $60K or more. ?In contrast the SCMI FS7 J/P is about half that in cost. ?No question that in my shop I do not have room for separates, and I assume the same is true of a lot of other users on here, even given the compact nesting arrangement that’s possible with the Martin pair. ?So if I were looking to buy a 20” combination J/P machine today, the FS7 would be a delightful upgrade from my Dual 51. ?
But since I don’t own and FS7, I can’t comment about the feed rollers except to say that if you have a rubber outfeed roller (or two) and the infeed roller is properly adjusted, minor indentations coming off the infeed roller should be taken off by the cutterhead. ?The FS7 comes standard with a?helicoidal grooved steel infeed roller, but can be optioned to have a sectioned steel roller. ?I know Paul got the sectioned roller option on his machine, so maybe he can comment. ?
What I can comment on is that a rubber infeed roller will see plenty of degradation and chewed-away rubber in use - largely due to the sharp front edge of the material entering the roller and abrading the rubber. ?I consider a rubber infeed roller to be a consumable item. ?Shown below are the two feed rollers out of my Dual 51 the last time I had them removed for recovering. ?You can see that the infeed feed roller gets a lot more wear and tear (it’s the one on the top in the photo):
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On May 14, 2023, at 7:17 PM, bespoken via groups.io <bespoken@...> wrote:
As many may know I am the Martin dealer for Southern CA. I had sold the Griggio machine to a couple of customers, and they were very happy with it. The machine was a 100% Griggio that was painted in Martin colors and imported by Martin USA. It was a popular machine, as many of the combination jointer planer machines had many disadvantages. This machine was heavy and well made. Martin decided to start making it in Germany and has been selling that in Europe. Since Martin has to abide by the UL listing rules, we would have to certify the electrical components to UL standards. This is important for liability reasons, and some other machinery manufactures do not do this for their machines that are sold here.
I was made aware that the SCMI machine is a virtual copy of the Griggio machine. Martin did add on the Aigner fence and an option for the SUVAmatic guard - both excellent additions to the machine. We are also making the cutterhead in house.
For Martin, we sell far more of the T45 and T54 machines over the combination machine. This is what Martin does best in the market, and is what most customers want. One customer who bought the combo machine since sold it and bought the T45 and T54 machines. He liked the machine, but separates are always going to be much faster and the machines are Martin quality.?
One issue that I did find with the combo was that you had to take off at least .5 mm of stock in order to remove the marks from the in feed roller. Having a rubber in feed roller would be ideal and this is what we use on the T45. You can run a piece through twice without changing the height and it will not mark it. ?I am not sure that the in feed roller on the SCMI can be changed out to rubber. But this may be an issue (David?).
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One more benefit is that the dust extraction port stays on the right and you do not have to lower the planer table to do the changeover.?
PK, so when you are using the planer set at around 3/4 inch, and then you want to lower the jointer tables to use the jointer, you do not have to lower the planer table at all? ?With the Griggio-Martin, even though the dust extraction port stays on the right, you would have to lower the planer table to over 5 inches in order to do a changeover to jointer.
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David and Scott,
I am not sure that the infeed roller is replaceable on my FS7.? The segmented infeed rollers I have will leave a mark if you take a very small pass on softer woods, but I would not say it is .5mm.
I planed a 19" wide table top for a friend this week that was cedar with epoxy in the center.? I took a few passes at 1mm but several at less than .5mm and we did not see any marks.?
The outfeed roller is easily replaceable, though I am not sure if I would except for long term maintenance.? I am an open book.? If anyone wants to see an FS7, feel free to come on by any time, I am in Southern California? I am not sure if there are any others in North America at this point.
PK
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I have a tilting spindle moulder, a SCM TI145EP, I use the tilting feature, maybe 5% of the time??
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On the TP300, which should be extremely similar to the T32, it is only when the planer table is lowered to over 5.5 inches or so that the part as shown in the yellow area of the attached photo will not hit the planer table as you lower the flip up jointer tables. ?A nice feature for sure to be able to not have to lower the planer table to use it as a jointer.
As for high end JPs....?
.... the most interesting to me is the Hofmann (see links). ?I do not believe it is UL listed and I do not think one has never been sold in the United States (I could be mistaken). ?I have never seen one. ?However, interesting that it seems you can go from jointer to planer without raising the table.
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The Inca 570 Jointer/Planer (I used for a decade) tables didn't move to use the planer function?
Jason Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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David P. Best
PK
David Luckensmeyer
Albert Lee
Jason Holtz
Larry Long Neck