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Re: Fixing Felder X-roll short cross cut fence T-nut - AKA group buy of improved T-nut

 

Imran:
?
I did get the small version of the outrigger and xcut fence.? Since I'm only using this for hobby projects, I didn't see myself using the outrigger that much, so I was thinking maybe to use the short xcut fence more frequently.? But having played with it for just half a day, I see maybe I would just use the standard outrigger/xcut mostly.? I'm happy with the amount of space around the K700 even with the long xcut fence on the outrigger.? So I'm undecided on the upgrade kit, but again, I hate not to use something I just paid for.
?
David:
?
When the tech told me he can show me how to set it up correctly and repeatable, I was a little hopeful.? After watching him trying but could not dial it in within 10 minutes, I was sure I'm 1 of the 9 out of 10.? ?it was kind funny to watch him struggle, then I got tired of him using up all my 2x4.??
?
I think another route is to adapt the 1100mm xcut fence to the outrigger, I think I saw someone else did it and posted some info here.? I will need to get some extra pieces to make it work, but this is a separate topic.
?
Nelson
Re: Fixing Felder X-roll short cross cut fence T-nut - AKA group buy of improved T-nut

 

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Nelson,

For most users, F&F is not a substitute for a xcut fence. Does your machine have the outrigger and long xcut fence? If not then, I would recommend that you get your short xcut fence working.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On May 30, 2025, at 3:28?PM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

?Nelson,

There is indeed a design flaw with the Felder 1100mm short crosscut fence relating to 90-degree registration consistency. ? Felder techs are notorious in their finger-pointing. ?Some Felder showrooms have installed the upgrade kit that I designed and manufactured for a while, which at least to me indicates that the well informed sales managers know first hand that the design is flawed. ?I suggest you watch the first few short videos at the following link:


This fix for the design flaws is not just a T-nut, but requires modification of the coupling components to install a precision bushing and modifications to the clamping Kipp lever.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On May 30, 2025, at 12:03?PM, jiojio_nc via groups.io <jiojio_nc@...> wrote:

Ok, so I may need this modified T-nut upgrade as well, but since I have not had any real time with the machine, I wonder if I should make my F&F jig first to give it try.? The Felder tech came yesterday and setup the K700S, everything went well except the short crosscut fence.? Before we started, I mentioned to him about the perceived design flaw as discussed here.? However, the tech stated "I don't get involved with any user groups, most people there don't know how to setup the machine corrected and blame the design.? I don't see any problems with the design, I have not had any problems with the setup".? So I was really looking forward to see how he does it and maybe you guys are all wrong about this.
?
That was before 1 hour of trying, turning 3 sheets of 2'x4' into 100 pieces of 1"? wide strips.? He got it very close twice.? Both times, I loosened the fence and put it back to try it again and it was off.? ?In the end, I told him to stop trying, I was running out of 2x4 sheets anyways.? I will just (a) keep trying myself (b) get the upgrade kit first.?
?
In any case, I may try to set up the fence and reinstall just to see for myself.? I guess I only have a day or 2 before the group buy ends.? Also, I wonder if the F&F jig will be sufficient for what I need.? But I hate to waste the money I just spent on this option.
?
At least he gave me some pointers on the AD941 calibration that were useful, I got it done last night, so I guess that's reasonable trade off.??
?
I will try to confirm ASAP if I need to buy this kit as well.??
?
Nelson
Re: Fixing Felder X-roll short cross cut fence T-nut - AKA group buy of improved T-nut

 

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Nelson,

There is indeed a design flaw with the Felder 1100mm short crosscut fence relating to 90-degree registration consistency. ? Felder techs are notorious in their finger-pointing. ?Some Felder showrooms have installed the upgrade kit that I designed and manufactured for a while, which at least to me indicates that the well informed sales managers know first hand that the design is flawed. ?I suggest you watch the first few short videos at the following link:


This fix for the design flaws is not just a T-nut, but requires modification of the coupling components to install a precision bushing and modifications to the clamping Kipp lever.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On May 30, 2025, at 12:03?PM, jiojio_nc via groups.io <jiojio_nc@...> wrote:

Ok, so I may need this modified T-nut upgrade as well, but since I have not had any real time with the machine, I wonder if I should make my F&F jig first to give it try.? The Felder tech came yesterday and setup the K700S, everything went well except the short crosscut fence.? Before we started, I mentioned to him about the perceived design flaw as discussed here.? However, the tech stated "I don't get involved with any user groups, most people there don't know how to setup the machine corrected and blame the design.? I don't see any problems with the design, I have not had any problems with the setup".? So I was really looking forward to see how he does it and maybe you guys are all wrong about this.
?
That was before 1 hour of trying, turning 3 sheets of 2'x4' into 100 pieces of 1"? wide strips.? He got it very close twice.? Both times, I loosened the fence and put it back to try it again and it was off.? ?In the end, I told him to stop trying, I was running out of 2x4 sheets anyways.? I will just (a) keep trying myself (b) get the upgrade kit first.?
?
In any case, I may try to set up the fence and reinstall just to see for myself.? I guess I only have a day or 2 before the group buy ends.? Also, I wonder if the F&F jig will be sufficient for what I need.? But I hate to waste the money I just spent on this option.
?
At least he gave me some pointers on the AD941 calibration that were useful, I got it done last night, so I guess that's reasonable trade off.??
?
I will try to confirm ASAP if I need to buy this kit as well.??
?
Nelson
Re: Fixing Felder X-roll short cross cut fence T-nut - AKA group buy of improved T-nut

 

Ok, so I may need this modified T-nut upgrade as well, but since I have not had any real time with the machine, I wonder if I should make my F&F jig first to give it try.? The Felder tech came yesterday and setup the K700S, everything went well except the short crosscut fence.? Before we started, I mentioned to him about the perceived design flaw as discussed here.? However, the tech stated "I don't get involved with any user groups, most people there don't know how to setup the machine corrected and blame the design.? I don't see any problems with the design, I have not had any problems with the setup".? So I was really looking forward to see how he does it and maybe you guys are all wrong about this.
?
That was before 1 hour of trying, turning 3 sheets of 2'x4' into 100 pieces of 1"? wide strips.? He got it very close twice.? Both times, I loosened the fence and put it back to try it again and it was off.? ?In the end, I told him to stop trying, I was running out of 2x4 sheets anyways.? I will just (a) keep trying myself (b) get the upgrade kit first.?
?
In any case, I may try to set up the fence and reinstall just to see for myself.? I guess I only have a day or 2 before the group buy ends.? Also, I wonder if the F&F jig will be sufficient for what I need.? But I hate to waste the money I just spent on this option.
?
At least he gave me some pointers on the AD941 calibration that were useful, I got it done last night, so I guess that's reasonable trade off.??
?
I will try to confirm ASAP if I need to buy this kit as well.??
?
Nelson
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

I also have the grit, I have the same experience with the FS7, I see ~50-60A when I start it up. It gets to the upper 20s when running a 50mm boards (at the lowest speed), it has 15HP motor (I think it is 9kW motor @ 50Hz that runs at 11kW @ 60Hz)
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

Netanel,
?
I have the GRIT system for dust collection control.? It uses a 'Donut' to measure instantaneous current at the machines to change a blast gate and turn on the DC.
?
The max current I see upon start up is around 50 amps for a second, well within the PTE 010 capabilities, and does run around 30 amps normally.? Even if you run a board for 10 seconds at 40 amps, that is still within the peak amperage of the PTE 010 according to their graphs.
?
PK
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

PK, excellent points.
?
I read all the articles at surfprepsanding. It is a great source of information.

I sent an email to SCM and got a reply, the SD10 is maxed at 42A over 230V and usually run at the 30A range.
My DC is running on a single phase circuit, so it looks like PTE015 minus 19A is the same as PTE010 with just the sander.
?
The 3 head Kuding at Joe’s place is a dream, but not feasible in any shop (and way too expansive)
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

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Hey Ty: ?I have owned a Dual 51 for almost 10 years…has been an outstanding machine…many days lately it runs 8-10 hours a day…you will appreciate the machine. ?Terry

On May 30, 2025, at 11:03 AM, Ty <ty@...> wrote:

Just wanted to update the group on the installation.? We got the Phase Perfect connected and wired in a load center.? Ran 30A power to the Jointer / Planer.? The dust collection system needed to be re-worked to accommodate.? After a good cleaning and fresh grease we fired it up.? This is my first Felder machine, and Im blown away by the power and precision.? We had not completed the wiring - just getting everything roughed into final position.? The machine rests on a plywood base with low profile industrial locking casters.? If I need to move it they are very convenient and it raises the deck up a few inches which is comfortable for my height.??
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?
For context, here's the former Jet jointer / planer.? Quite an upgrade!
<inline.1.part>
?
Much gratitude to this forum and the many members who took time to help in the messages and even over the phone.??
?
Cheers,
Ty
?
?
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

Jason,
?
That is a painful point. not sure where everyone can find a place that charge a reasonable price to run a tabletop on commercial WBS.
I spend not insignificant time finding a place with a 53” WBS, last time I did it in 2022 I was charged $300 and had to driver 1 hour each direction.
And it took them a week to complete the sanding.
So that was 4 hours journey.
?
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

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Congratulations Ty. I assume you have a steel base with ply on top. I can’t imagine just ply for the base. Out of abundance caution, I would suggest checking how the machine balances on the base when the tables are up. This could make the machine rather light on the operator side.?

Have fun with the machine.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On May 30, 2025, at 11:03?AM, Ty via groups.io <ty@...> wrote:

?
Just wanted to update the group on the installation.? We got the Phase Perfect connected and wired in a load center.? Ran 30A power to the Jointer / Planer.? The dust collection system needed to be re-worked to accommodate.? After a good cleaning and fresh grease we fired it up.? This is my first Felder machine, and Im blown away by the power and precision.? We had not completed the wiring - just getting everything roughed into final position.? The machine rests on a plywood base with low profile industrial locking casters.? If I need to move it they are very convenient and it raises the deck up a few inches which is comfortable for my height.??
<inline.0.part>
?
For context, here's the former Jet jointer / planer.? Quite an upgrade!
<inline.1.part>
?
Much gratitude to this forum and the many members who took time to help in the messages and even over the phone.??
?
Cheers,
Ty
?
?
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

I am almost in full agreement with Mr. Best, Jason and Lucky.
?
  1. Once you have had a wide belt sander, it is hard to go back!? It is so convenient and quick compared to:
    1. A rotax and RO
    2. A performax
    3. A double drum sander
  2. There is more to the sanding than power on a wide belt
    1. Surf Prep has a great article on it -
    2. Maximum sanding depth has more to do with the grit you are at than power on a single belt machine.
    3. A 100 grit belt can only remove .017" max.? Any more and it is not really sanding.? There is also a minimum to remove the scratch pattern from the previous grit.? Cool to print out the grid and put it on the sander for reference...
    4. Use multiple belts to remove stock and to flatten.? As you get closer to the desired thickness, you move to higher belts to remove the scratch pattern from the coarser belts.??
    5. Belt changeover is so fast, that you just need to get with the program and do it.
  3. The hardness of the wood does increase power draw.? The same hit on poplar is not the same as white oak.
  4. Do not underestimate the importance/convenience of infeed and outfeed rollers for a single person operation.
  5. I would NOT buy a machine without a platen.? Electrical movement of the platen from the control panel is a great feature!
  6. The air cooling/cleaning system that Lucky describes is something that I wish my sander had.? It was an option, some day I will reach out to Casadei/SCM to see what it takes to retrofit.
  7. Older machines used air to track the belts vs electric eyes.? If looking for a used machine, make sure you know how it works, Air tracking requires a large air compressor and more power (overall) while sanding.
  8. Overall power is a thing.? Many shops find this out after they upgrade:
    1. New sander -More power.
    2. New sander - Bigger Dust collection - More Power
    3. Air belt cleaning - bigger Air Compressor - More Power
    4. My wide belt with my DC gets close to the max of my Phase Perfect I am sure.? Max of the sander is 51 amps, plus a constant 19 amps on the RL200.? I am sure I am into the "buffer" on wider stuff with lower grits.
  9. The SCM 37" is an SD10 (~$20k new) the Casadei 37" is a Libra 10 (~$20k new) although brother/sister, they can be had with different options and the infeed/outfeed rollers on the Casadei come standard and the infeed rollers are longer (?) than the SCM option is.
  10. SCM sells a ton of these every year, they come up used often.? It is a great waiting game to play!? And SCM has hundreds of techs in the US.?
?
Other brands are great, I am sure, I just do not have experience with them to give good recommendations, and not all brands make a 37" or a single belt.? Joe's Kundig is amazing, but not available in a size I can manage in a home shop (plus the price tag!)
?
Sorry for the rant - it's early!
?
PK
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

Just wanted to update the group on the installation.? We got the Phase Perfect connected and wired in a load center.? Ran 30A power to the Jointer / Planer.? The dust collection system needed to be re-worked to accommodate.? After a good cleaning and fresh grease we fired it up.? This is my first Felder machine, and Im blown away by the power and precision.? We had not completed the wiring - just getting everything roughed into final position.? The machine rests on a plywood base with low profile industrial locking casters.? If I need to move it they are very convenient and it raises the deck up a few inches which is comfortable for my height.??
?
For context, here's the former Jet jointer / planer.? Quite an upgrade!
?
Much gratitude to this forum and the many members who took time to help in the messages and even over the phone.??
?
Cheers,
Ty
?
?
Re: KF700 dust port size

 

I run 4" about 5' from the KF700 to a 5" branch that runs about 3' to the 7" trunk. The 4" hose is always clean of dust and debris.
Re: KF700 dust port size

 

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My 2002 KF700 is same, 100mm inside and 120mm outside. I used 5” hose (with a foam collar to make up the difference) outside as 4” with a long run would be too restrictive. My K975 is 120 mm inside and outside.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On May 30, 2025, at 2:57?AM, Stan K via groups.io <4279427@...> wrote:

?
After perusing the forum and documentation, I was expecting my saw to come with a 120mm port on the cabinet side. Well, I was in for a surprise. The "port" turned out to be a reducer connecting to what looks very much like a 4" flex inside the cabinet.
?
<F203C76F-0643-4A62-A961-80D251A1E5D9_1_105_c.jpeg>
<3A1935AE-B60C-42A0-9DF1-9C7F4564E800_1_105_c.jpeg>
?
I am not at all sure if it makes any sense to run a 5", reducing it to 120 mm, only to have it further reduced to 4" inside the machine. My gut tells me to slap a 4" port on it and call it a day. Am I missing anything?
?
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

Netaniel,
Just to play devil's advocate here, if you feel the open ended 16" sander would be less limiting than a closed end 24" I would think that is the more useful option. How frequently are you doing table tops? How close is there a shop with a wider sander? My 43" is still occasionally too narrow and I schlep a top over somewhere with a 53" sander. But most of the time, I will just do some dominos for registration and send it in two halves, then the seam is easily RO sanded after glue up.?

Most shops are happy to run something for you for little money. We charge $60/hr for sander time.?

Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765

--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
Re: Moving cross country C341

 

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I don’t have a full combo machine. Just connect Felder for the manual. You should have one on hand. Sometimes the parts manual is a separate book, so be sure to ask for both.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On May 29, 2025, at 8:25?PM, Adam Fox via groups.io <adamhfox@...> wrote:

?
Thanks for this tip about wedging the slider.? Do you have photos or a copy of the manual I could look at?
?
Thanks!
Adam
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

You make some good points.
I agree that it is way better to remove 0.1mm instead of 0.4mm per pass and do 10 passes and be over with the finish vs spending 3 hours with Rotex to sand down a glue line.
If I am going back to the entry level of SCM sander, it looks like it has some moderate requirements.

Air consumption -20 NL/min (equal to 0.7CFM)- same as the cantek 25" - My compressor can handle that
requires a single dust port of 140mm with a 900 CFM (Oneida has ~1400 CFM)
The form factor is also super close to the Cantek 24" - 1388x1038mm - so 54"x41 - pretty much the same size of the C251.

If I am exploring this option,
Is there any specific model I should check?


?
KF700 dust port size

 

After perusing the forum and documentation, I was expecting my saw to come with a 120mm port on the cabinet side. Well, I was in for a surprise. The "port" turned out to be a reducer connecting to what looks very much like a 4" flex inside the cabinet.
?
?
I am not at all sure if it makes any sense to run a 5", reducing it to 120 mm, only to have it further reduced to 4" inside the machine. My gut tells me to slap a 4" port on it and call it a day. Am I missing anything?
?
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

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A 37” WB only takes a lot of power if you’re running material close to 37” wide and at a depth of cut that is at the design limits of the machine. ?Running such a machine with a lower HP motor and depth-of-cut is distinctly better than using a wider platform Performax-type drum sander. ?Netanel might in fact be well served with a 37” 10HP WB while observing the reduced duty capacity and taking proper steps to ensure the machine is not overloaded. ?I’ve used a 37” Timesaver with 10 HP motor, and while not ideal for hogging off glue-line irregularities of a 36” tabletop, great results for such a workflow can be achieved with patience and multiple passes. ?It sure beats 3 hours with a ROS and produces a flat surface without all the potential stalls and burn marks of a drum sander. ?It also beats the results of sending a 32” table top through a 16" open-side wide belt (or drum sander) with alternating directions/sides. ?Just my two cents, but the decision on WB machine all relates to expectations, demands, and patience. ?In the world of WB vendors and users, there’s often too much emphasis on time to complete a task, and not enough emphasis on what the end-goals is with less regard on how long it takes you to get there. ?“Look at this - I can send this 36” wide table, with ?” glue-line irregularities, throughout the machine and get a finish ready result in a single pass.” ?Yea, that’s bravado personified IMO. ?What if it took 10 passes, and you get to the same end result, and it’s flatter than any other method you have available?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On May 29, 2025, at 7:56?PM, PK via groups.io <pk@...> wrote:

Netanel,
?
SCM's sanding unit manager in the US (Paulo) does not import them with less than 18hp (so he told me, but maybe it could be special ordered).? Casadei is repped in the US by JKL machinery and they told me they would order one with the smaller main motor, but a 37" machine just takes a lot of power.
?
The modern WB's do not use that much air like older units (the Northstate and Powematic use the air to track the belt)? they use electric eyes instead.
?
PK?
Re: Powermatic 1632

 

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Hi Guys:

My 43” Format-4 Finish has a 15kW 3Ph single motor for two heads which was ordered specifically for the power I had available. It takes 400V at 63A with a D-curve breaker to start. And it requires 2 x 160mm extraction ports and moderate compressed air. I love the sander and would not be afraid to recommend an “underpowered” configuration like mine.

Most of the time I’m sanding furniture parts in the 100-300mm range. No problem with power. On the occasions when I sand full-width components, say a dining table top at 1100mm, I am just careful to take more passes. Works just fine, but does take longer. Yes I would have liked two larger motors, but I don't have the power and such a configuration just costs more to operate.?

On the air-use point, I very much wish I had ticked the box for the compressed air cleaning/cooling system. I thought it was a waste of money. However, as the belt heats up with prolonged use, my power usage (amp meter draw) increases, which can be an issue. I’m talking about 3-4 hr sanding sessions. I can imagine the machine would want a lot more air with that feature.?

My widebelt sander is easily the most expensive and extravagant machine in my shop. But it also does the most work. I would miss it desperately. Especially as I’m getting older and dislike the work of hand sanding all the more!

Happy researching, looking and considering!

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer?
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of PK via groups.io <pk@...>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 12:56:22 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Powermatic 1632
?
Netanel,
?
SCM's sanding unit manager in the US (Paulo) does not import them with less than 18hp (so he told me, but maybe it could be special ordered).? Casadei is repped in the US by JKL machinery and they told me they would order one with the smaller main motor, but a 37" machine just takes a lot of power.
?
The modern WB's do not use that much air like older units (the Northstate and Powematic use the air to track the belt)? they use electric eyes instead.
?
PK?
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