On Fri, Mar 05, 2021 at 12:25:40AM -0800, david@... via groups.io wrote:
| I eagerly await the day when the spacial data is spit out with the image, and Photoshop can automatically generate a field-variable mask and sharpness filter from it.
Something like this already exists in the form of "light-field" cameras (). Software allows you to choose focal length and depth-of-field for an image any time after the scene is recorded.
Lytro's light-field camera was the first consumer-market version that I saw. (My next-door neighbor and a former colleague were involved in developing it.) Unfortunately, it wasn't a commercial success.
I'm told that large-scale versions of this technology are used heavily in the movie industry.
Allen
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Well, I put "AI" in scare quotes to convey that's it's just a loose term, it's not a technology.? The point was that the iPhone is combining two distinct concepts -- binocular vision and facial/object recognition.? The first is arguably "just math" and that latter is "AI" (where AI just means machine learning/neural nets)
My other point is about "simulating bokeh".? ?Bokeh isn't a standard of physics, it's an aesthetic thing.? Here's a typical definition:
In photography, bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur produced in out-of-focus parts of an image. Bokeh has also been defined as "the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light". Differences in lens aberrations and aperture shape cause very different bokeh effects. Some lens designs blur the image in a way that is pleasing to the eye, while others produce distracting or unpleasant blurring.
Obviously you know this, but the phrase "simulating bokeh" could easily be misinterpreted as implying there there is?some optical standard of bokeh that the iPhone is trying to simulate, which isn't really the case.? A Canon and a Nikon of identical optical specs will produce different bokeh.? Even two instances of the same lens can produce different bokeh.? Photographers debate bokeh quality ad infinitum, but it's an aesthetic debate.? It is not a scientific debate about whether a Nikon or a Canon or a Sony produces the most "correct" bokeh, because there is no such thing as "correct bokeh".
The iPhone produces bokeh.? ?Often great, sometimes no so great.? But the quality isn't a function of how well it simulates a Nikon.?
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I'm looking for a used CF631. I'm hoping to find someone on this forum who is either selling one or has a friend that will sell one. If you know of one, please let me know! You can email me at elliot.consigny@...Also, during my research I've seen the importance of having the F coupling of the S coupling. How can you tell from pictures which is which? There is this one on ebay- What do people think of this machine? I'm weary of having to do a lot of restoration/work on a well-worn machine.
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Re: 20” Northfield bandsaw
Sounds like a plan.? Delivery is worth 500 at least.? The spring will cost about $25 worst case.? Start with a decent bi metal 3/4" blade and get to know the quirks of the machine.? If you decide on carbide but the tension is iffy, the laguna Resaw King has
a thinner band than the Lenox so it might be an option.? I prefer the lenox but the .035 band will be at the high end of what the saw can handle, even with the new spring.? On my Yates, the spring sits on the casting but you want to check that whatever supports
the spring can also handle the additional load.? 2-3 varitooth should be good.? My Olivers run at 6750 fpm which is fast but works for me as I'm not very patient so feed rate can be greater with the extra speed.? Dave
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Actually, the guy selling bought it in 2019...
On Mar 5, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Mark Kessler via groups.io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
?Thanks Dave, does not include the power feed but he said he could deliver it as he is only about 15min away. Northfield got back to me and below is what he said. Pretty cool to get all the history, the guy selling is the one who bought it!?
I am looking at this as a under 12-14” resaw to replace the laguna 14/12 which actually isn’t that bad as long as its under 7”. I would eventually get a larger saw but for now I don’t have the space then use the 20” for “scroll” work.?
As far as blade selection i was thinking carbide but I think there was a recent discussion on non carbide blades that dis a great job at a lower cost, what your opinion?
Reply from NorthField below,
S/N 612332-I is a 20" Bandsaw that was shipped as a "motor Base at Side No Electrics" Machine.? That means that it had no motor, belts, pulleys, belt guard or motor starting equipment.? Those items
installed at the time of sale by either the distributor or customer.? It also had SZ#0 Carter Guides.
?
It left our Plant on 10/03/1961 and shipped to Enterprise Machinery, one of our Distributors in NY State.
In?2019, Adam Geraldson in Essex Junction, VT?bought it . It sold for $475.00 in 1961.?
In 2019, We shipped tires and a new #0 Carter Guide.
?
A.? $2K is Fair.
B. ?Don't know what's on it for motor HP or Blade Speed.? You want to be under 5600 feet per minute to resaw effectively. 5,600 fpm on a 20" wheel equals approximately 1,070 rpm. Shoot for 900 rpm.
C.? None of these saws can provide the tensions the blade people ask for.? The Guides hold the blade.? Don't worry so much about tension.
On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:49 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
If condition is good, a decent deal without the feeder and a great one with it.? As a resaw it will be OK but not in the same world as a heavy ACM or Centauro 24" or a NF 27 or32".? It will likely handle a steel blade but I doubt it will tension a carbide blade
if that is what you intend.? The cast iron saws in the 20" range had larger tables and were more of a scroll type saw with occasional resawing.? The 30" saws were built for both and the 36" could resaw most anything up to 20" wide.? Dave
A 20” 1961 northfield bandsaw came up for 2k, is that a fair price? Not sure if the power feeder is included, waiting on a reply. Appears to be in good condition, new tires, 2 hp 3p.?
I will be looking to use this as a resaw at least for now, shopsawn veneers and general resaw
|
Re: 20” Northfield bandsaw
I put an Iturra spring on my Y20 as well and it is a worthwhile upgrade.? Dave
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If you’re interested, I bought and refurbished a Northfield 20 last fall and made a YouTube video series about the project.
?
?
?
I also contacted Northfield and added both the single roller resaw fence plus the regular double-sided fence. I also added the Iturra heavy spring, as the standard Northfield spring is really wimpy.? I’m able to tension a ?” blade to 25000 psi.? The saw MIGHT
be able to handle a 1”, but there are some clearance issues with guides and wheel width where I wasn’t sure if it was worth it, and Iturra said the difference between ?” and 1” isn’t likely to be huge.
?
I haven’t done a massive amount of resawing, but it’s working OK. I may still have alignment issues with the single roller resaw fence; I’m having arguably better results with the standard fence as long as my board is short enough that I can control it that
way.
?
If condition is good, a decent deal without the feeder and a great one with it.? As a resaw it will be OK but not in the same world as a heavy ACM or Centauro 24" or a NF 27 or32".? It will likely handle a steel blade
but I doubt it will tension a carbide blade if that is what you intend.? The cast iron saws in the 20" range had larger tables and were more of a scroll type saw with occasional resawing.? The 30" saws were built for both and the 36" could resaw most anything
up to 20" wide.? Dave
A 20” 1961 northfield bandsaw came up for 2k, is that a fair price? Not sure if the power feeder is included, waiting on a reply. Appears to be in good condition, new tires, 2 hp 3p.?
I will be looking to use this as a resaw at least for now, shopsawn veneers and general resaw
|
Re: Used KF700 year 200 price check
Stephen,
Thought of couple more things. Looks for plastic dust shield in the shaper opening. Mine is clear plastic. This is easy to ruin if one accidentally lowers a large cutter head. Similarly, there is a plastic piece that attaches to the rectangular bottom of the saw blade dust shoot and allows a round dust hose connection.
At minimum you should have the euro guard that mounts to the riving knife for dust collection. Not sure if the overhead dust collection was available at that time.
Verify electric brake works.
My shaper came with a steel pressure plate that keeps wood against shaper fence and a rubber hold down. Also nice is the micro adjust on shaper. Not as critical but I did use the micro adjust on my rip fence as well.
A tilt bracket is also nice to have if you are interested in power feeder.
Imran?
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On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Stephen Zielke <tseelkah@...> wrote: ?Hello - I've been reading a few posts and topics to research the ins and outs of used Felder machinery (I own all kinds of brands, almost always used, incl. a Hammer A31, Minimax, Rojek and Powermatic). I've found a locally available used KF700, year 2000. I would call it's condition "fair" - it's been sitting for 2 years unused, and is on it's 3rd owner. Covered in dust inside and out. It would be a step up to a format slider from my 1990's era Rojek KPF300, with its solid guide rail and small cast iron outrigger table and simple shaper.
Pro's - tilting and reverse shaper functions would be new to me (Rojek is vertical and forward only), format slider, both motors and power functions operate, slider rolls well, everything is nominally flat, the shaper spindle and saw arbor both run true with no wobble (like maybe 1/1000). No rust, just fair amount of scratches and dust.
Con's - missing a few accessory items, older F mount and non X-roll table era, only one spindle, no shaper parts except the basic fence, and the whopper, 3 phase 5.5 KW (7.5hp) - this last one involves $1300 to purchase a RPC since I have single phase. 40-50 amp breaker will use half my shop power. Only 80" slider, I have been searching for 98"+ for about a year (to replace the 60" Rojek, to have more sheet good processing capacity). I find several local 10' sliders? - without the shaper function - on Craigslist each month, but the 8' size seems to be a unicorn.
The $3500 seems like an almost fair price for a "needs TLC" machine, although the RPC means it's closer to $5k before selling the Rojek. That's still under half price compared to new.
Thoughts on this price, for this era of machine - just about right, or too high?
thanks.
|
Re: 20” Northfield bandsaw
If you’re interested, I bought and refurbished a Northfield 20 last fall and made a YouTube video series about the project.
?
?
?
I also contacted Northfield and added both the single roller resaw fence plus the regular double-sided fence. I also added the Iturra heavy spring, as the standard Northfield spring is really wimpy.? I’m able to tension a ?” blade to 25000
psi.? The saw MIGHT be able to handle a 1”, but there are some clearance issues with guides and wheel width where I wasn’t sure if it was worth it, and Iturra said the difference between ?” and 1” isn’t likely to be huge.
?
I haven’t done a massive amount of resawing, but it’s working OK. I may still have alignment issues with the single roller resaw fence; I’m having arguably better results with the standard fence as long as my board is short enough that
I can control it that way.
?
If condition is good, a decent deal without the feeder and a great one with it.? As a resaw it will be OK but not in the same world as a heavy ACM or Centauro 24" or a NF 27 or32".? It will likely
handle a steel blade but I doubt it will tension a carbide blade if that is what you intend.? The cast iron saws in the 20" range had larger tables and were more of a scroll type saw with occasional resawing.? The 30" saws were built for both and the 36" could
resaw most anything up to 20" wide.? Dave
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...>
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 9:20 AM
To: Felder Owner Group <[email protected]>
Subject: [FOG] 20” Northfield bandsaw
A 20” 1961 northfield bandsaw came up for 2k, is that a fair price? Not sure if the power feeder is included, waiting on a reply. Appears to be in good condition, new tires, 2 hp 3p.?
I will be looking to use this as a resaw at least for now, shopsawn veneers and general resaw
|
Re: Used KF700 year 200 price check
Stephen
I have a KF from that “era” (2003).? I do agree with the point made, if you’re working with sheet goods, and 8’ table could be a source of annoyance (I have a 9’ and am glad to have gone that way).? Wrt power, for whatever reason (truly can’t recall), I went with twin 7.5HP 3ph.? So, my 100AMP sub panel has a 50 amp fuse for the phase converter.? However, I work alone so my worse case scenario is the saw/shaper, dust collector (3 1/2hp Oneida) and some 20 amp activity (lights, radio, etc).? Never a problem.? I wouldn’t expect the same outcome if the planer or drum sander were going at the same time.? So if the slider length isn’t an issue for you, I can vouch for a great machine.
Mike
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:39 AM Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote: Hello - I've been reading a few posts and topics to research the ins and outs of used Felder machinery (I own all kinds of brands, almost always used, incl. a Hammer A31, Minimax, Rojek and Powermatic). I've found a locally available used KF700, year 2000. I would call it's condition "fair" - it's been sitting for 2 years unused, and is on it's 3rd owner. Covered in dust inside and out. It would be a step up to a format slider from my 1990's era Rojek KPF300, with its solid guide rail and small cast iron outrigger table and simple shaper.
Pro's - tilting and reverse shaper functions would be new to me (Rojek is vertical and forward only), format slider, both motors and power functions operate, slider rolls well, everything is nominally flat, the shaper spindle and saw arbor both run true with no wobble (like maybe 1/1000). No rust, just fair amount of scratches and dust.
Con's - missing a few accessory items, older F mount and non X-roll table era, only one spindle, no shaper parts except the basic fence, and the whopper, 3 phase 5.5 KW (7.5hp) - this last one involves $1300 to purchase a RPC since I have single phase. 40-50 amp breaker will use half my shop power. Only 80" slider, I have been searching for 98"+ for about a year (to replace the 60" Rojek, to have more sheet good processing capacity). I find several local 10' sliders? - without the shaper function - on Craigslist each month, but the 8' size seems to be a unicorn.
The $3500 seems like an almost fair price for a "needs TLC" machine, although the RPC means it's closer to $5k before selling the Rojek. That's still under half price compared to new.
Thoughts on this price, for this era of machine - just about right, or too high?
thanks.
|
Re: 20” Northfield bandsaw
Actually, the guy selling bought it in 2019...
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On Mar 5, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Mark Kessler via groups.io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Thanks Dave, does not include the power feed but he said he could deliver it as he is only about 15min away. Northfield got back to me and below is what he said. Pretty cool to get all the history, the guy selling is the one who bought it!?
I am looking at this as a under 12-14” resaw to replace the laguna 14/12 which actually isn’t that bad as long as its under 7”. I would eventually get a larger saw but for now I don’t have the space then use the 20” for “scroll” work.?
As far as blade selection i was thinking carbide but I think there was a recent discussion on non carbide blades that dis a great job at a lower cost, what your opinion?
Reply from NorthField below, S/N 612332-I is a 20" Bandsaw that was shipped as a "motor Base at Side No Electrics" Machine.? That means that it had no motor, belts, pulleys, belt guard or motor starting equipment.? Those items installed at the time of sale by either the distributor or customer.? It also had SZ#0 Carter Guides. ? It left our Plant on 10/03/1961 and shipped to Enterprise Machinery, one of our Distributors in NY State. In?2019, Adam Geraldson in Essex Junction, VT?bought it . It sold for $475.00 in 1961.? In 2019, We shipped tires and a new #0 Carter Guide. ? A.? $2K is Fair. B. ?Don't know what's on it for motor HP or Blade Speed.? You want to be under 5600 feet per minute to resaw effectively. 5,600 fpm on a 20" wheel equals approximately 1,070 rpm. Shoot for 900 rpm. C.? None of these saws can provide the tensions the blade people ask for.? The Guides hold the blade.? Don't worry so much about tension. On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:49 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
If condition is good, a decent deal without the feeder and a great one with it.? As a resaw it will be OK but not in the same world as a heavy ACM or Centauro 24" or a NF 27 or32".? It will likely handle a steel blade but I doubt it will tension a carbide blade
if that is what you intend.? The cast iron saws in the 20" range had larger tables and were more of a scroll type saw with occasional resawing.? The 30" saws were built for both and the 36" could resaw most anything up to 20" wide.? Dave
A 20” 1961 northfield bandsaw came up for 2k, is that a fair price? Not sure if the power feeder is included, waiting on a reply. Appears to be in good condition, new tires, 2 hp 3p.?
I will be looking to use this as a resaw at least for now, shopsawn veneers and general resaw
|
Re: Used KF700 year 200 price check
Patrick,
Thanks for clarification. I am familiar with that routine but you had written “Having to take off the outrigger?for a 81" rip is beyond annoying” which is indeed a bigger deal than removing xcut fence.
I actually think removing xcut fence on my KF is really easy (2 kip levers) but the key is to have a place nearby to stow it, while off of machine.
Imran?
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On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote: ? Yes, that is correct. If your offcut rip is greater than 1/4-1/2" then it will hit the crosscut fence and prohibit you from continuing the rip. One, a longer sliding table would allow you to rip off the table, which is safer and with better results. Two, even if you want to rip conventionally on the rip fence, you cant do it with the crosscut fence in place. Inconvenient, less safe, and generally, not ideal.? On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:53 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Patrick,
“?Having to take off the outrigger for a 81" rip is beyond annoying”
I don’t have outrigger on my KF but do on K975. By above, did you mean removing xcut fence from the outrigger for doing long rips using the rip fence?
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Patrick Kane < pwk5017@...> wrote: ? I have a 2005 KF700 with an 80" slide, and i would encourage you to wait for an 8'+ table IF this is your sole table saw. I didnt mind the shorter sliding table as much when i had a cabinet saw, but it's?a shortcoming as my only saw now. Having to take off the outrigger for a 81" rip is beyond annoying.?
Patrick On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:33 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Stephen,
I have a 2002 KF700, 3KW, 3ph with 78 or 80” slider. It is a well made machine and if no rust should clean to near new as the finish is really good.
What do you mean by missing a few accessory items? Does it have an outrigger?
I can still get parts for my machine, so imagine you can as well for 2000. Go to felder eshop for a general lookup but a call to felder is best. If you can get the S/N they will provide you with repair history if any was done. You should confirm availability of any specific parts/accessories that you know you will be getting.
I am pretty sure you can still get shaper spindles so if your tooling is 1.25” or 30mm you should be able to reuse it. There are other spindle sizes as well including a router spindle. I assume your machine is compatible with a router spindle but a modification may be needed to use small dia router bits though.
Price actually seems really good to me for dirty but otherwise functional machine. If you have any specific questions please ask.
There is a 2005 KF700 SP, single phase 5HP with a 9’ slider, power feeder and many accessories in MI but I believe asking price is more than triple. If interested let me know.
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote: ?Hello - I've been reading a few posts and topics to research the ins and outs of used Felder machinery (I own all kinds of brands, almost always used, incl. a Hammer A31, Minimax, Rojek and Powermatic). I've found a locally available used KF700, year 2000. I would call it's condition "fair" - it's been sitting for 2 years unused, and is on it's 3rd owner. Covered in dust inside and out. It would be a step up to a format slider from my 1990's era Rojek KPF300, with its solid guide rail and small cast iron outrigger table and simple shaper.
Pro's - tilting and reverse shaper functions would be new to me (Rojek is vertical and forward only), format slider, both motors and power functions operate, slider rolls well, everything is nominally flat, the shaper spindle and saw arbor both run true with no wobble (like maybe 1/1000). No rust, just fair amount of scratches and dust.
Con's - missing a few accessory items, older F mount and non X-roll table era, only one spindle, no shaper parts except the basic fence, and the whopper, 3 phase 5.5 KW (7.5hp) - this last one involves $1300 to purchase a RPC since I have single phase. 40-50 amp breaker will use half my shop power. Only 80" slider, I have been searching for 98"+ for about a year (to replace the 60" Rojek, to have more sheet good processing capacity). I find several local 10' sliders? - without the shaper function - on Craigslist each month, but the 8' size seems to be a unicorn.
The $3500 seems like an almost fair price for a "needs TLC" machine, although the RPC means it's closer to $5k before selling the Rojek. That's still under half price compared to new.
Thoughts on this price, for this era of machine - just about right, or too high?
thanks.
|
Re: 20” Northfield bandsaw
Thanks Dave, does not include the power feed but he said he could deliver it as he is only about 15min away. Northfield got back to me and below is what he said. Pretty cool to get all the history, the guy selling is the one who bought it!?
I am looking at this as a under 12-14” resaw to replace the laguna 14/12 which actually isn’t that bad as long as its under 7”. I would eventually get a larger saw but for now I don’t have the space then use the 20” for “scroll” work.?
As far as blade selection i was thinking carbide but I think there was a recent discussion on non carbide blades that dis a great job at a lower cost, what your opinion?
Reply from NorthField below, S/N 612332-I is a 20" Bandsaw that was shipped as a "motor Base at Side No Electrics" Machine.? That means that it had no motor, belts, pulleys, belt guard or motor starting equipment.? Those items installed at the time of sale by either the distributor or customer.? It also had SZ#0 Carter Guides. ? It left our Plant on 10/03/1961 and shipped to Enterprise Machinery, one of our Distributors in NY State. In?2019, Adam Geraldson in Essex Junction, VT?bought it . It sold for $475.00 in 1961.? In 2019, We shipped tires and a new #0 Carter Guide. ? A.? $2K is Fair. B. ?Don't know what's on it for motor HP or Blade Speed.? You want to be under 5600 feet per minute to resaw effectively. 5,600 fpm on a 20" wheel equals approximately 1,070 rpm. Shoot for 900 rpm. C.? None of these saws can provide the tensions the blade people ask for.? The Guides hold the blade.? Don't worry so much about tension.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:49 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
If condition is good, a decent deal without the feeder and a great one with it.? As a resaw it will be OK but not in the same world as a heavy ACM or Centauro 24" or a NF 27 or32".? It will likely handle a steel blade but I doubt it will tension a carbide blade
if that is what you intend.? The cast iron saws in the 20" range had larger tables and were more of a scroll type saw with occasional resawing.? The 30" saws were built for both and the 36" could resaw most anything up to 20" wide.? Dave
A 20” 1961 northfield bandsaw came up for 2k, is that a fair price? Not sure if the power feeder is included, waiting on a reply. Appears to be in good condition, new tires, 2 hp 3p.?
I will be looking to use this as a resaw at least for now, shopsawn veneers and general resaw
|
Re: Used KF700 year 200 price check
Yes, that is correct. If your offcut rip is greater than 1/4-1/2" then it will hit the crosscut fence and prohibit you from continuing the rip. One, a longer sliding table would allow you to rip off the table, which is safer and with better results. Two, even if you want to rip conventionally on the rip fence, you cant do it with the crosscut fence in place. Inconvenient, less safe, and generally, not ideal.?
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:53 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Patrick,
“?Having to take off the outrigger for a 81" rip is beyond annoying”
I don’t have outrigger on my KF but do on K975. By above, did you mean removing xcut fence from the outrigger for doing long rips using the rip fence?
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Patrick Kane < pwk5017@...> wrote: ? I have a 2005 KF700 with an 80" slide, and i would encourage you to wait for an 8'+ table IF this is your sole table saw. I didnt mind the shorter sliding table as much when i had a cabinet saw, but it's?a shortcoming as my only saw now. Having to take off the outrigger for a 81" rip is beyond annoying.?
Patrick On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:33 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Stephen,
I have a 2002 KF700, 3KW, 3ph with 78 or 80” slider. It is a well made machine and if no rust should clean to near new as the finish is really good.
What do you mean by missing a few accessory items? Does it have an outrigger?
I can still get parts for my machine, so imagine you can as well for 2000. Go to felder eshop for a general lookup but a call to felder is best. If you can get the S/N they will provide you with repair history if any was done. You should confirm availability of any specific parts/accessories that you know you will be getting.
I am pretty sure you can still get shaper spindles so if your tooling is 1.25” or 30mm you should be able to reuse it. There are other spindle sizes as well including a router spindle. I assume your machine is compatible with a router spindle but a modification may be needed to use small dia router bits though.
Price actually seems really good to me for dirty but otherwise functional machine. If you have any specific questions please ask.
There is a 2005 KF700 SP, single phase 5HP with a 9’ slider, power feeder and many accessories in MI but I believe asking price is more than triple. If interested let me know.
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote: ?Hello - I've been reading a few posts and topics to research the ins and outs of used Felder machinery (I own all kinds of brands, almost always used, incl. a Hammer A31, Minimax, Rojek and Powermatic). I've found a locally available used KF700, year 2000. I would call it's condition "fair" - it's been sitting for 2 years unused, and is on it's 3rd owner. Covered in dust inside and out. It would be a step up to a format slider from my 1990's era Rojek KPF300, with its solid guide rail and small cast iron outrigger table and simple shaper.
Pro's - tilting and reverse shaper functions would be new to me (Rojek is vertical and forward only), format slider, both motors and power functions operate, slider rolls well, everything is nominally flat, the shaper spindle and saw arbor both run true with no wobble (like maybe 1/1000). No rust, just fair amount of scratches and dust.
Con's - missing a few accessory items, older F mount and non X-roll table era, only one spindle, no shaper parts except the basic fence, and the whopper, 3 phase 5.5 KW (7.5hp) - this last one involves $1300 to purchase a RPC since I have single phase. 40-50 amp breaker will use half my shop power. Only 80" slider, I have been searching for 98"+ for about a year (to replace the 60" Rojek, to have more sheet good processing capacity). I find several local 10' sliders? - without the shaper function - on Craigslist each month, but the 8' size seems to be a unicorn.
The $3500 seems like an almost fair price for a "needs TLC" machine, although the RPC means it's closer to $5k before selling the Rojek. That's still under half price compared to new.
Thoughts on this price, for this era of machine - just about right, or too high?
thanks.
|
Re: Used KF700 year 200 price check
Patrick,
“?Having to take off the outrigger for a 81" rip is beyond annoying”
I don’t have outrigger on my KF but do on K975. By above, did you mean removing xcut fence from the outrigger for doing long rips using the rip fence?
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote: ? I have a 2005 KF700 with an 80" slide, and i would encourage you to wait for an 8'+ table IF this is your sole table saw. I didnt mind the shorter sliding table as much when i had a cabinet saw, but it's?a shortcoming as my only saw now. Having to take off the outrigger for a 81" rip is beyond annoying.?
Patrick On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:33 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Stephen,
I have a 2002 KF700, 3KW, 3ph with 78 or 80” slider. It is a well made machine and if no rust should clean to near new as the finish is really good.
What do you mean by missing a few accessory items? Does it have an outrigger?
I can still get parts for my machine, so imagine you can as well for 2000. Go to felder eshop for a general lookup but a call to felder is best. If you can get the S/N they will provide you with repair history if any was done. You should confirm availability of any specific parts/accessories that you know you will be getting.
I am pretty sure you can still get shaper spindles so if your tooling is 1.25” or 30mm you should be able to reuse it. There are other spindle sizes as well including a router spindle. I assume your machine is compatible with a router spindle but a modification may be needed to use small dia router bits though.
Price actually seems really good to me for dirty but otherwise functional machine. If you have any specific questions please ask.
There is a 2005 KF700 SP, single phase 5HP with a 9’ slider, power feeder and many accessories in MI but I believe asking price is more than triple. If interested let me know.
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote: ?Hello - I've been reading a few posts and topics to research the ins and outs of used Felder machinery (I own all kinds of brands, almost always used, incl. a Hammer A31, Minimax, Rojek and Powermatic). I've found a locally available used KF700, year 2000. I would call it's condition "fair" - it's been sitting for 2 years unused, and is on it's 3rd owner. Covered in dust inside and out. It would be a step up to a format slider from my 1990's era Rojek KPF300, with its solid guide rail and small cast iron outrigger table and simple shaper.
Pro's - tilting and reverse shaper functions would be new to me (Rojek is vertical and forward only), format slider, both motors and power functions operate, slider rolls well, everything is nominally flat, the shaper spindle and saw arbor both run true with no wobble (like maybe 1/1000). No rust, just fair amount of scratches and dust.
Con's - missing a few accessory items, older F mount and non X-roll table era, only one spindle, no shaper parts except the basic fence, and the whopper, 3 phase 5.5 KW (7.5hp) - this last one involves $1300 to purchase a RPC since I have single phase. 40-50 amp breaker will use half my shop power. Only 80" slider, I have been searching for 98"+ for about a year (to replace the 60" Rojek, to have more sheet good processing capacity). I find several local 10' sliders? - without the shaper function - on Craigslist each month, but the 8' size seems to be a unicorn.
The $3500 seems like an almost fair price for a "needs TLC" machine, although the RPC means it's closer to $5k before selling the Rojek. That's still under half price compared to new.
Thoughts on this price, for this era of machine - just about right, or too high?
thanks.
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Re: 20” Northfield bandsaw
If condition is good, a decent deal without the feeder and a great one with it.? As a resaw it will be OK but not in the same world as a heavy ACM or Centauro 24" or a NF 27 or32".? It will likely handle a steel blade but I doubt it will tension a carbide blade
if that is what you intend.? The cast iron saws in the 20" range had larger tables and were more of a scroll type saw with occasional resawing.? The 30" saws were built for both and the 36" could resaw most anything up to 20" wide.? Dave
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A 20” 1961 northfield bandsaw came up for 2k, is that a fair price? Not sure if the power feeder is included, waiting on a reply. Appears to be in good condition, new tires, 2 hp 3p.?
I will be looking to use this as a resaw at least for now, shopsawn veneers and general resaw
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Re: Used KF700 year 200 price check
I have a 2005 KF700 with an 80" slide, and i would encourage you to wait for an 8'+ table IF this is your sole table saw. I didnt mind the shorter sliding table as much when i had a cabinet saw, but it's?a shortcoming as my only saw now. Having to take off the outrigger for a 81" rip is beyond annoying.?
Patrick
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:33 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Stephen,
I have a 2002 KF700, 3KW, 3ph with 78 or 80” slider. It is a well made machine and if no rust should clean to near new as the finish is really good.
What do you mean by missing a few accessory items? Does it have an outrigger?
I can still get parts for my machine, so imagine you can as well for 2000. Go to felder eshop for a general lookup but a call to felder is best. If you can get the S/N they will provide you with repair history if any was done. You should confirm availability of any specific parts/accessories that you know you will be getting.
I am pretty sure you can still get shaper spindles so if your tooling is 1.25” or 30mm you should be able to reuse it. There are other spindle sizes as well including a router spindle. I assume your machine is compatible with a router spindle but a modification may be needed to use small dia router bits though.
Price actually seems really good to me for dirty but otherwise functional machine. If you have any specific questions please ask.
There is a 2005 KF700 SP, single phase 5HP with a 9’ slider, power feeder and many accessories in MI but I believe asking price is more than triple. If interested let me know.
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote: ?Hello - I've been reading a few posts and topics to research the ins and outs of used Felder machinery (I own all kinds of brands, almost always used, incl. a Hammer A31, Minimax, Rojek and Powermatic). I've found a locally available used KF700, year 2000. I would call it's condition "fair" - it's been sitting for 2 years unused, and is on it's 3rd owner. Covered in dust inside and out. It would be a step up to a format slider from my 1990's era Rojek KPF300, with its solid guide rail and small cast iron outrigger table and simple shaper.
Pro's - tilting and reverse shaper functions would be new to me (Rojek is vertical and forward only), format slider, both motors and power functions operate, slider rolls well, everything is nominally flat, the shaper spindle and saw arbor both run true with no wobble (like maybe 1/1000). No rust, just fair amount of scratches and dust.
Con's - missing a few accessory items, older F mount and non X-roll table era, only one spindle, no shaper parts except the basic fence, and the whopper, 3 phase 5.5 KW (7.5hp) - this last one involves $1300 to purchase a RPC since I have single phase. 40-50 amp breaker will use half my shop power. Only 80" slider, I have been searching for 98"+ for about a year (to replace the 60" Rojek, to have more sheet good processing capacity). I find several local 10' sliders? - without the shaper function - on Craigslist each month, but the 8' size seems to be a unicorn.
The $3500 seems like an almost fair price for a "needs TLC" machine, although the RPC means it's closer to $5k before selling the Rojek. That's still under half price compared to new.
Thoughts on this price, for this era of machine - just about right, or too high?
thanks.
|
Re: Used KF700 year 200 price check
Stephen,
I have a 2002 KF700, 3KW, 3ph with 78 or 80” slider. It is a well made machine and if no rust should clean to near new as the finish is really good.
What do you mean by missing a few accessory items? Does it have an outrigger?
I can still get parts for my machine, so imagine you can as well for 2000. Go to felder eshop for a general lookup but a call to felder is best. If you can get the S/N they will provide you with repair history if any was done. You should confirm availability of any specific parts/accessories that you know you will be getting.
I am pretty sure you can still get shaper spindles so if your tooling is 1.25” or 30mm you should be able to reuse it. There are other spindle sizes as well including a router spindle. I assume your machine is compatible with a router spindle but a modification may be needed to use small dia router bits though.
Price actually seems really good to me for dirty but otherwise functional machine. If you have any specific questions please ask.
There is a 2005 KF700 SP, single phase 5HP with a 9’ slider, power feeder and many accessories in MI but I believe asking price is more than triple. If interested let me know.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Stephen Zielke <tseelkah@...> wrote: ?Hello - I've been reading a few posts and topics to research the ins and outs of used Felder machinery (I own all kinds of brands, almost always used, incl. a Hammer A31, Minimax, Rojek and Powermatic). I've found a locally available used KF700, year 2000. I would call it's condition "fair" - it's been sitting for 2 years unused, and is on it's 3rd owner. Covered in dust inside and out. It would be a step up to a format slider from my 1990's era Rojek KPF300, with its solid guide rail and small cast iron outrigger table and simple shaper.
Pro's - tilting and reverse shaper functions would be new to me (Rojek is vertical and forward only), format slider, both motors and power functions operate, slider rolls well, everything is nominally flat, the shaper spindle and saw arbor both run true with no wobble (like maybe 1/1000). No rust, just fair amount of scratches and dust.
Con's - missing a few accessory items, older F mount and non X-roll table era, only one spindle, no shaper parts except the basic fence, and the whopper, 3 phase 5.5 KW (7.5hp) - this last one involves $1300 to purchase a RPC since I have single phase. 40-50 amp breaker will use half my shop power. Only 80" slider, I have been searching for 98"+ for about a year (to replace the 60" Rojek, to have more sheet good processing capacity). I find several local 10' sliders? - without the shaper function - on Craigslist each month, but the 8' size seems to be a unicorn.
The $3500 seems like an almost fair price for a "needs TLC" machine, although the RPC means it's closer to $5k before selling the Rojek. That's still under half price compared to new.
Thoughts on this price, for this era of machine - just about right, or too high?
thanks.
|
A 20” 1961 northfield bandsaw came up for 2k, is that a fair price? Not sure if the power feeder is included, waiting on a reply. Appears to be in good condition, new tires, 2 hp 3p.?
I will be looking to use this as a resaw at least for now, shopsawn veneers and general resaw
|
Re: Tersa Replacement Blades
Thanks Patrick. I did not even consider carbide on account of getting nicked. Yes I know I can shift them but it is not for me.
Also if the whole thing is carbide it has to be handled with care. I dropped a small screw on a?1.5mm thick?60x12 solid carbide shaper insert blade and it shattered. That was my first experience telling me in real terms how brittle carbide is.
Imran
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On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:26 AM, Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote: ? I also use the M42 steel on my jointer. I dont think ive personally used the chrome type before, and the HSS set that came on my used machine was pretty well worn. M42 isnt that much of a premium in comparison. I really tried to make sense of buying a set of carbide, but its hard to justify the cost. I think the carbide knives can be re-sharpened, which would help a lot, but we are talking like 7-10 years before you break even in comparison to M42. I might not even own this machine in 7-10 years. Carbide insert heads are a very easy argument to make against straight knife machines simply from a cost of operating perspective. However, only having two fresh tersa edges versus 4 fresh insert edges is a significant difference.?
Patrick On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:15 AM Fred Rossi < fred@...> wrote: This is the same place I get mine. M+ work great, are inexpensive and last a long time as long as your stock is clean. I buy a few sets at a time.?
Fred Rossi?
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I need to order my first replacement Tersa knives for Dual51.
l see HSS and M+ with little diff in price. Any recommendations between the two? Per the website HSS is fine for common hardwoods that I intend to use and M+ is recommended for harder woods like hickory and exotics. I do not have plans for using these harder woods but if M+ is more durable and equally sharp as HSS then why not get M+.
How about a reliable place to order from. I see that many outfits are making them.
This place in Canada claims to sell Tersa brand made in Switzerland
Hermance offers Tigra brand for similar price as above.
American National Knife offers a HSS blade that is $10 more per blade.
BTW, is anyone offering them with side 1/2 identification markings?
I am leaning towards Canadian outfit and HSS but would like to learn from collective.
Imran
_____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
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Re: Tersa Replacement Blades
Regarding?the nick, simply offset the knives by about a mm. The nick disappears and the cut is smooth. When you nick the blade the nick is in the same spot on all 4 blades. Offsetting them staggers the nicks and leaves a smooth cut.
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:53 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Fred. I was going to go “off blade” method but thought I check first. I only have 1 set, I have a nick on the old edge so that helps. I have to look again to see if I can use printing in the middle as a guide unless it is flipped on each end.
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:41 AM, Fred Rossi < fred@...> wrote: ? That’s a good question! I finally just put a piece of blue tape near the cutterhead and record the date installed and the flipped with a white china marker. I used to forget all the time. Now I know when and which edge!
Good luck! On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:23 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Fred. Have you figured a way to identify/mark sides?
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Fred Rossi < fred@...> wrote: ? This is the same place I get mine. M+ work great, are inexpensive and last a long time as long as your stock is clean. I buy a few sets at a time.?
Fred Rossi?
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I need to order my first replacement Tersa knives for Dual51.
l see HSS and M+ with little diff in price. Any recommendations between the two? Per the website HSS is fine for common hardwoods that I intend to use and M+ is recommended for harder woods like hickory and exotics. I do not have plans for using these harder woods but if M+ is more durable and equally sharp as HSS then why not get M+.
How about a reliable place to order from. I see that many outfits are making them.
This place in Canada claims to sell Tersa brand made in Switzerland
Hermance offers Tigra brand for similar price as above.
American National Knife offers a HSS blade that is $10 more per blade.
BTW, is anyone offering them with side 1/2 identification markings?
I am leaning towards Canadian outfit and HSS but would like to learn from collective.
Imran
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
|
Re: Tersa Replacement Blades
Thanks Fred. I was going to go “off blade” method but thought I check first. I only have 1 set, I have a nick on the old edge so that helps. I have to look again to see if I can use printing in the middle as a guide unless it is flipped on each end.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:41 AM, Fred Rossi <fred@...> wrote: ? That’s a good question! I finally just put a piece of blue tape near the cutterhead and record the date installed and the flipped with a white china marker. I used to forget all the time. Now I know when and which edge!
Good luck! On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:23 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Fred. Have you figured a way to identify/mark sides?
Imran On Mar 5, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Fred Rossi < fred@...> wrote: ? This is the same place I get mine. M+ work great, are inexpensive and last a long time as long as your stock is clean. I buy a few sets at a time.?
Fred Rossi?
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I need to order my first replacement Tersa knives for Dual51.
l see HSS and M+ with little diff in price. Any recommendations between the two? Per the website HSS is fine for common hardwoods that I intend to use and M+ is recommended for harder woods like hickory and exotics. I do not have plans for using these harder woods but if M+ is more durable and equally sharp as HSS then why not get M+.
How about a reliable place to order from. I see that many outfits are making them.
This place in Canada claims to sell Tersa brand made in Switzerland
Hermance offers Tigra brand for similar price as above.
American National Knife offers a HSS blade that is $10 more per blade.
BTW, is anyone offering them with side 1/2 identification markings?
I am leaning towards Canadian outfit and HSS but would like to learn from collective.
Imran
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
|
Allen Akin
imran
Fred Rossi