Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
I tried it again and I can get option prices on Hammer and FB510 and FB610 on of is on my list however the optioins are the base machine not the options of table extensions or the like.
Glen
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-----Original Message-----
From: Acie Jefferson pastoraj@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 10:06 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
Glen you have to create an account (its no cost) and logon to the eshop and you can see the prices of the accessories.
Acie J
?
Thank You!? I Know I saw it somewhere, I like the idea, Possible out feed extension on the rip table and out of my way when I don't need it>
Go figure its prob. not an option On 400 x Motion
One thing i don't like about Felder is I cant see list prices on any options, it make deciding very hard with many calls to sales.
I wish they would just give me a price list so i could save some time.
Glen
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Thank you Acie,
This is very interesting I have an account on eshop and other that buying small stuff or getting aprice on a machine, and many you cant by my knowledge I have not see a place to get pricing on options on the Kappa
However with excessive brain damage from from running a business that's not my little wood-shop im going to go dig in harder
Felder has multiple web sites while I can get some info off one I offen have to go to another one and I can get other stuff
Major down fall for peanut sized brains
Glen
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-----Original Message-----
From: Acie Jefferson pastoraj@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 10:06 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
Glen you have to create an account (its no cost) and logon to the eshop and you can see the prices of the accessories.
Acie J
?
Thank You!? I Know I saw it somewhere, I like the idea, Possible out feed extension on the rip table and out of my way when I don't need it>
Go figure its prob. not an option On 400 x Motion
One thing i don't like about Felder is I cant see list prices on any options, it make deciding very hard with many calls to sales.
I wish they would just give me a price list so i could save some time.
Glen
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Again I thank you David Best & "Lucky" and everyone one else that has given me input to help me figure out the Kappa 400 X motion.
I am going to make my fourth trip to Felder Sacamento on Tuesday to work thru the options again with them. Thanks to you guys my Quote or offer as they call it is petrified with notes questions and HUH. Alot of this i can fix from the knowledge I got here. and i hope to come back with a nice clean almost correct quote.then I will do this again one more time and if any one would be willing to look at it with my final I DON'T KNOWS Before i place my order I would greatly appreciate it. I will also include the price that i got and Authorization page just in case someone wants to fill their Credit Card info for me for my Christmas gift.
While im up there I am going to start On The Profil 45 X motion and go thru this while process again. Hopefully with less trips up
So with out spreading across to many machines, David? said that putting on the DRO on the cross cut fence adds a lot of weight , At 50 Lbs I think it ok as i will use one of the FAT tables to move to a safe parking place on a wall. But thinking forward on the next machine the Jointer Planer I test ran the AD741 i think it was and I am thinking about going up a size. I had a hard time flipping the bed up with my bad back. some asked why I am not getting separated machines and the reason is not so much about space but money.
The Felder is going to be used in the cabinet finish side of the shop,on the otherside I need a second one To run off the stock from the mill.
I am not going to run mill stock thru my FElder Unless its going in to a specific project So I am getting way off base here., any knowledge on Felder and if there is someting on the machine that i can add to help lifting the bed.
Glen
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-----Original Message-----
From: David Luckensmeyer dhluckens@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 1:56 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
Glen:
David references me with regard to the x-roll outrigger, so I thought I would add my vote for that option. It is exceptionally desirable and I love that feature.
I¡¯m perhaps a little stronger than average, and I can say that the Kappa 400 crosscut fence, with 3 x DRO stops is very heavy. It is too heavy to remove and install easily and regularly. I have the outrigger cart, and although it is possible to get the outrigger and the fence onto the cart, the result is so heavy and ungainly that I wouldn¡¯t do that (I did it once!). Instead, when I take the outrigger off, I grab a blanket, take the crosscut fence off (which is quite easy except for the weight), and lay it on the floor. Better would be to have a dedicated spot on the wall for it. I then remove the outrigger and store on the cart.
Incidentally, I love the DRO system on the crosscut fence so much that I use the Kappa 400 exclusively with the outrigger installed. The only reason I take off the fence is to eek out a little more length for straight-line rips on the slider.
Back to the x-roll outrigger option. In order to change the angle on the crosscut fence, I need to loosen the fence at the pivot point on the slider end of the fence. As you all likely know, this simply involves loosening a knob underneath the outrigger. I then loosen a locking knob on the little x-roll table built into the outrigger, and physically push the fence to the desired angle. To be clear, there is a second ¡°pivot¡± point in the little x-roll table on which the fence rides. Since the table moves (parallel to the main x-roll sliding table), I can move the fence through any angle up to 46 degrees, as the little x-roll table slides with?the fence. Once I¡¯m at the desired position, I simply lock the fence and go for it.
Three more points:?
The x-roll table on the outrigger has a fine adjustment knob which is keyed into the x-roll table such that I can dial in the precise angle I want. I could use the adjustment knob to move the fence from 90 degrees to the target angle, but I find the best procedure is to push the fence in gross movements so that I¡¯m close, and then grab the adjustment knob and go for those last few tenths of a degree.
How do I dial in for those last few tenths of a degree? Well, when you option the x-roll outrigger, you get a digital readout for the angle. I love that! My mitres now look pretty good since I can specify 45.3 degrees, to make sure the joint is closed on the outside.
I did not get the automatic length compensation feature for my crosscut fence on the outrigger. It is a nice feature and would be wonderful if I were cutting mitres all the time. In reality, I very rarely cut mitres, and when I do I just sneak up on the length of cut like everyone else. I don¡¯t regret not having the compensation feature.
Lucky
Glen,
The outrigger table options are indeed confusing. ? Let me try to clarify:
The 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables are basically the same except 1300 is 200mm less wide and only works on sliding tables 8-feet long or shorter. ? Sliding tables longer than 98-inches require the 1500 outrigger (the support arm under the table that supports it throughout the travel of the sliding table must extend further, and is thus longer, and so is the table above it to match). ? I don¡¯t believe Felder offers the 1300 outrigger table on the Kappa 400 (they do on the 700-series) if you get one of the shorter sliding tables.
There is a third outrigger table called the ¡°X-Roll¡± outrigger( option 161) - talk about creating confusion with that name !!! ? ?Anyway, the X-Roll outrigger has a roller-bearing actuated small table that supports the crosscut fence on the outrigger table, and makes it much easer to reposition the fence for angled cuts. ? The digital crosscut fence is about twice as heavy as the analog version, and if you load it up with a digital telescoping extension, it ends up about 50 pounds total. ? Trying to man-handle that fence into the precision miter guide indexing system is a real chore and you can easily damage that index system if you¡¯re not careful. ? So they came up with the X-Roll outrigger table to address this, which has it¡¯s own digital readout of the fence angle built in. ? You can also provision that X-Roll table with a radio transmitter system so it talks to the digital crosscut stops and they cooperate in computing the true position of the stop from the blade when the fence is not at 90-degrees. ? ?The X-Roll outrigger unit even has a hand crank for precise positioning of the angle. ? I don¡¯t have the X-Roll outrigger table (wish I did) but David Luckensmeyer does. ? Look at the photo in the following link and you¡¯ll see the X-Roll outrigger table element directly under the crosscut stop - it moves just like the sliding table, but of course is miniature in comparison - you¡¯ll also see the digital readout for the angle of the crosscut fence in the box between the crosscut stop and the sliding table:?
?
As for the crosscut fences, what I posted just prior to this for Michael applies to the Kappa 400, although there are additional option numbers relating to the radio compensation system on the X-Roll outrigger. ?Any of the crosscut fences can be put on any of the outrigger tables, although typically the X-Roll outrigger table
As for digital crosscut stops, I¡¯ll add the following. ? The standard digital crosscut stop has the flipper on the left - which means the closest it will go to the blade is just over 8 inches. ? If you want a digital crosscut stop that gets closer to the saw blade, you have to ADD (not substitute) an additional crosscut stop which is Felder part number 604-118. ? That stop has the flipper on the right and will position down to about 3-inches from the blade. ?The digital crosscut stop on the telescoping extension is dedicated to the extension and can not be positioned below 74-inches. ? On the non-digital crosscut fences, the analog crosscut stops can be used on the main part of the fence, or positioned on the telescoping extension - this is not the case with the digital stops. ? More info on the digital stops is here - including a document on how to calibrate them: ??
Sing out if you have more questions.
David Best
Hi David
So I haven't said anything lately, I have just been read your and everyone else s posts and I have gathered a wealth of information.
I have looked at some of the other stuff you have mentioned and I think I am set on the kappa 400 x. I have spent many hours looking at this saw and I have to say i understand it pretty well except for the options on the outrigger table. This messages helps but I still cant quite figure it out.? Looking at the pictures of your saw i think we have the same set up but im not exactly sure. Looking at the book there seems to be three variations of the outrigger. I wish you were my Felder Rep it would make it much easier for me to figure this all out.
Glen ??
-----Original Message----- From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' ?david@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 8:36 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. ? I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. ? If you have the power for electronic scoring (it¡¯s a separate motor), and don¡¯t mind spending the additional for it, then it¡¯s clearly a better choice - even if you don¡¯t use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. ??
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can¡¯t or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. ? Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. ?If you don¡¯t get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I¡¯ll text Hansj?rg Felder directly. ? You¡¯re about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. ? PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it¡¯s value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. ? If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you¡¯re working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you¡¯re trying to miter. ? ?If you¡¯re planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36¡±) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. ? In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn¡¯t index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. ? I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. ? My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it¡¯s digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. ? I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I¡¯m going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I¡¯ll drop on the EGL. ?
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. ??
One other word of caution. ? If you plan to use the shaper much, you¡¯ll want a power feeder. ? Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. ? You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. ? However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. ? This may have changed - I don¡¯t know, but you should know, and if it¡¯s true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best
??
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.? I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.? David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.? I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.? Does anyone who has one like theirs??? Why?? Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.? Is this still the case?? Is it different on the electric scoring unit?? I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
you can also consider contacting ?commercial shop to see if they will plane/sand the slabs flat for you.
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This question is about practices, since you guys are all way more experienced than me. I hope it isn't inappropriate to ask here; if it is, my apologies.
With my shop back up and running with the KF700SP and Minimax FS41ES, I'm ready to start on the dining room table I promised the wife. The table top will be 108" x 42".
I purchased three slabs of Willamette Valley (Oregon) black walnut. Two are bookmatched, 8/4 x 168" x 20". The third is also 8/4, about 110" x 16". The pieces are not clear and have significant checks that will need stabilizing. My plan is to use tinted epoxy, though I am open to other options. The edges are also quite rough so I expect to lose at least an inch on each long edge.
My plan, such as it is, is to trim 5' from the longer slabs and mill that wood into the pieces I need for aprons and legs. The top will be glued up from the three 9' slabs, with the unmatched slab in the middle. I'll use dominoes to align the edges.?
I am concerned about my ability to flatten, square, and glue up these pieces due to their dimensions and weight. Moreover, even ripping the wide slabs down to 16" will put them at the limit of my FS16. I have a couple of options for access to a wide belt sander and/or larger jointer/planer. I have also looked at the creation of a router jig for flattening large slabs, though a) I'm not super excited about building one for a one-time use; b) no longer own a large router; and c) don't have a large flat surface for the base of such a jig.
I would be exceptionally grateful for any suggestions (up to and including tough love) for how to best proceed. Thanks in advance ¡ª I've learned a ton from this list in the last year.
/afb
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Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Glen you have to create an account (its no cost) and logon to the eshop and you can see the prices of the accessories.
Acie J
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On Dec 4, 2016, at 9:55 PM, GLEN chris3645@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Thank You!? I Know I saw it somewhere, I like the idea, Possible out feed extension on the rip table and out of my way when I don't need it>
Go figure its prob. not an option On 400 x Motion
One thing i don't like about Felder is I cant see list prices on any options, it make deciding very hard with many calls to sales.
I wish they would just give me a price list so i could save some time.
Glen
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Thank You!? I Know I saw it somewhere, I like the idea, Possible out feed extension on the rip table and out of my way when I don't need it>
Go figure its prob. not an option On 400 x Motion
One thing i don't like about Felder is I cant see list prices on any options, it make deciding very hard with many calls to sales.
I wish they would just give me a price list so i could save some time.
Glen
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Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: garrisonstuber@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 7:20 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
|
Brian, That's it. ? I would definitely like to follow your process. I will start Looking for the Unifence.
Can I send you an email or call you? ?
BTW I am in Greenville SC
Dan ?
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Thank You Lucky, This help from you is so much value to me as I try to finalize my machine.
at first I was not going to get the outriger cart but I think I am. I plan to do a lot of straight linnig with the shoe as i am milling my own trees and have bark edges, I Thought just walking arout the out rigger was ok but now i m thinking different.
now? I thought I saw an optio where where you could park the out rigger behind the saw where a power feed would be but I cant remember if that was a Felder or one of the 1000 other machines I looked at.
Glen
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-----Original Message-----
From: David Luckensmeyer dhluckens@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 1:56 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
Glen:
David references me with regard to the x-roll outrigger, so I thought I would add my vote for that option. It is exceptionally desirable and I love that feature.
I¡¯m perhaps a little stronger than average, and I can say that the Kappa 400 crosscut fence, with 3 x DRO stops is very heavy. It is too heavy to remove and install easily and regularly. I have the outrigger cart, and although it is possible to get the outrigger and the fence onto the cart, the result is so heavy and ungainly that I wouldn¡¯t do that (I did it once!). Instead, when I take the outrigger off, I grab a blanket, take the crosscut fence off (which is quite easy except for the weight), and lay it on the floor. Better would be to have a dedicated spot on the wall for it. I then remove the outrigger and store on the cart.
Incidentally, I love the DRO system on the crosscut fence so much that I use the Kappa 400 exclusively with the outrigger installed. The only reason I take off the fence is to eek out a little more length for straight-line rips on the slider.
Back to the x-roll outrigger option. In order to change the angle on the crosscut fence, I need to loosen the fence at the pivot point on the slider end of the fence. As you all likely know, this simply involves loosening a knob underneath the outrigger. I then loosen a locking knob on the little x-roll table built into the outrigger, and physically push the fence to the desired angle. To be clear, there is a second ¡°pivot¡± point in the little x-roll table on which the fence rides. Since the table moves (parallel to the main x-roll sliding table), I can move the fence through any angle up to 46 degrees, as the little x-roll table slides with?the fence. Once I¡¯m at the desired position, I simply lock the fence and go for it.
Three more points:?
The x-roll table on the outrigger has a fine adjustment knob which is keyed into the x-roll table such that I can dial in the precise angle I want. I could use the adjustment knob to move the fence from 90 degrees to the target angle, but I find the best procedure is to push the fence in gross movements so that I¡¯m close, and then grab the adjustment knob and go for those last few tenths of a degree.
How do I dial in for those last few tenths of a degree? Well, when you option the x-roll outrigger, you get a digital readout for the angle. I love that! My mitres now look pretty good since I can specify 45.3 degrees, to make sure the joint is closed on the outside.
I did not get the automatic length compensation feature for my crosscut fence on the outrigger. It is a nice feature and would be wonderful if I were cutting mitres all the time. In reality, I very rarely cut mitres, and when I do I just sneak up on the length of cut like everyone else. I don¡¯t regret not having the compensation feature.
Lucky
Glen,
The outrigger table options are indeed confusing. ? Let me try to clarify:
The 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables are basically the same except 1300 is 200mm less wide and only works on sliding tables 8-feet long or shorter. ? Sliding tables longer than 98-inches require the 1500 outrigger (the support arm under the table that supports it throughout the travel of the sliding table must extend further, and is thus longer, and so is the table above it to match). ? I don¡¯t believe Felder offers the 1300 outrigger table on the Kappa 400 (they do on the 700-series) if you get one of the shorter sliding tables.
There is a third outrigger table called the ¡°X-Roll¡± outrigger( option 161) - talk about creating confusion with that name !!! ? ?Anyway, the X-Roll outrigger has a roller-bearing actuated small table that supports the crosscut fence on the outrigger table, and makes it much easer to reposition the fence for angled cuts. ? The digital crosscut fence is about twice as heavy as the analog version, and if you load it up with a digital telescoping extension, it ends up about 50 pounds total. ? Trying to man-handle that fence into the precision miter guide indexing system is a real chore and you can easily damage that index system if you¡¯re not careful. ? So they came up with the X-Roll outrigger table to address this, which has it¡¯s own digital readout of the fence angle built in. ? You can also provision that X-Roll table with a radio transmitter system so it talks to the digital crosscut stops and they cooperate in computing the true position of the stop from the blade when the fence is not at 90-degrees. ? ?The X-Roll outrigger unit even has a hand crank for precise positioning of the angle. ? I don¡¯t have the X-Roll outrigger table (wish I did) but David Luckensmeyer does. ? Look at the photo in the following link and you¡¯ll see the X-Roll outrigger table element directly under the crosscut stop - it moves just like the sliding table, but of course is miniature in comparison - you¡¯ll also see the digital readout for the angle of the crosscut fence in the box between the crosscut stop and the sliding table:?
?
As for the crosscut fences, what I posted just prior to this for Michael applies to the Kappa 400, although there are additional option numbers relating to the radio compensation system on the X-Roll outrigger. ?Any of the crosscut fences can be put on any of the outrigger tables, although typically the X-Roll outrigger table
As for digital crosscut stops, I¡¯ll add the following. ? The standard digital crosscut stop has the flipper on the left - which means the closest it will go to the blade is just over 8 inches. ? If you want a digital crosscut stop that gets closer to the saw blade, you have to ADD (not substitute) an additional crosscut stop which is Felder part number 604-118. ? That stop has the flipper on the right and will position down to about 3-inches from the blade. ?The digital crosscut stop on the telescoping extension is dedicated to the extension and can not be positioned below 74-inches. ? On the non-digital crosscut fences, the analog crosscut stops can be used on the main part of the fence, or positioned on the telescoping extension - this is not the case with the digital stops. ? More info on the digital stops is here - including a document on how to calibrate them: ??
Sing out if you have more questions.
David Best
Hi David
So I haven't said anything lately, I have just been read your and everyone else s posts and I have gathered a wealth of information.
I have looked at some of the other stuff you have mentioned and I think I am set on the kappa 400 x. I have spent many hours looking at this saw and I have to say i understand it pretty well except for the options on the outrigger table. This messages helps but I still cant quite figure it out.? Looking at the pictures of your saw i think we have the same set up but im not exactly sure. Looking at the book there seems to be three variations of the outrigger. I wish you were my Felder Rep it would make it much easier for me to figure this all out.
Glen ??
-----Original Message----- From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' ?david@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 8:36 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. ? I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. ? If you have the power for electronic scoring (it¡¯s a separate motor), and don¡¯t mind spending the additional for it, then it¡¯s clearly a better choice - even if you don¡¯t use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. ??
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can¡¯t or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. ? Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. ?If you don¡¯t get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I¡¯ll text Hansj?rg Felder directly. ? You¡¯re about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. ? PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it¡¯s value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. ? If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you¡¯re working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you¡¯re trying to miter. ? ?If you¡¯re planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36¡±) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. ? In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn¡¯t index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. ? I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. ? My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it¡¯s digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. ? I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I¡¯m going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I¡¯ll drop on the EGL. ?
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. ??
One other word of caution. ? If you plan to use the shaper much, you¡¯ll want a power feeder. ? Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. ? You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. ? However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. ? This may have changed - I don¡¯t know, but you should know, and if it¡¯s true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best
??
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.? I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.? David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.? I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.? Does anyone who has one like theirs??? Why?? Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.? Is this still the case?? Is it different on the electric scoring unit?? I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Thank you David, This makes it way more easy to figure out. Let me study this and the schematic for a bit
Glen ?
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-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]
To: rcorselli@... [felder-woodworking]
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 10:06 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
Glen,
The outrigger table options are indeed confusing. ? Let me try to clarify:
The 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables are basically the same except 1300 is 200mm less wide and only works on sliding tables 8-feet long or shorter. ? Sliding tables longer than 98-inches require the 1500 outrigger (the support arm under the table that supports it throughout the travel of the sliding table must extend further, and is thus longer, and so is the table above it to match). ? I don¡¯t believe Felder offers the 1300 outrigger table on the Kappa 400 (they do on the 700-series) if you get one of the shorter sliding tables.
There is a third outrigger table called the ¡°X-Roll¡± outrigger( option 161) - talk about creating confusion with that name !!! ? ?Anyway, the X-Roll outrigger has a roller-bearing actuated small table that supports the crosscut fence on the outrigger table, and makes it much easer to reposition the fence for angled cuts. ? The digital crosscut fence is about twice as heavy as the analog version, and if you load it up with a digital telescoping extension, it ends up about 50 pounds total. ? Trying to man-handle that fence into the precision miter guide indexing system is a real chore and you can easily damage that index system if you¡¯re not careful. ? So they came up with the X-Roll outrigger table to address this, which has it¡¯s own digital readout of the fence angle built in. ? You can also provision that X-Roll table with a radio transmitter system so it talks to the digital crosscut stops and they cooperate in computing the true position of the stop from the blade when the fence is not at 90-degrees. ? ?The X-Roll outrigger unit even has a hand crank for precise positioning of the angle. ? I don¡¯t have the X-Roll outrigger table (wish I did) but David Luckensmeyer does. ? Look at the photo in the following link and you¡¯ll see the X-Roll outrigger table element directly under the crosscut stop - it moves just like the sliding table, but of course is miniature in comparison - you¡¯ll also see the digital readout for the angle of the crosscut fence in the box between the crosscut stop and the sliding table:?
?
As for the crosscut fences, what I posted just prior to this for Michael applies to the Kappa 400, although there are additional option numbers relating to the radio compensation system on the X-Roll outrigger. ?Any of the crosscut fences can be put on any of the outrigger tables, although typically the X-Roll outrigger table
As for digital crosscut stops, I¡¯ll add the following. ? The standard digital crosscut stop has the flipper on the left - which means the closest it will go to the blade is just over 8 inches. ? If you want a digital crosscut stop that gets closer to the saw blade, you have to ADD (not substitute) an additional crosscut stop which is Felder part number 604-118. ? That stop has the flipper on the right and will position down to about 3-inches from the blade. ?The digital crosscut stop on the telescoping extension is dedicated to the extension and can not be positioned below 74-inches. ? On the non-digital crosscut fences, the analog crosscut stops can be used on the main part of the fence, or positioned on the telescoping extension - this is not the case with the digital stops. ? More info on the digital stops is here - including a document on how to calibrate them: ??
Sing out if you have more questions.
David Best
Hi David
So I haven't said anything lately, I have just been read your and everyone else s posts and I have gathered a wealth of information.
I have looked at some of the other stuff you have mentioned and I think I am set on the kappa 400 x. I have spent many hours looking at this saw and I have to say i understand it pretty well except for the options on the outrigger table. This messages helps but I still cant quite figure it out.? Looking at the pictures of your saw i think we have the same set up but im not exactly sure. Looking at the book there seems to be three variations of the outrigger. I wish you were my Felder Rep it would make it much easier for me to figure this all out.
Glen ??
-----Original Message----- From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' ?david@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 8:36 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. ? I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. ? If you have the power for electronic scoring (it¡¯s a separate motor), and don¡¯t mind spending the additional for it, then it¡¯s clearly a better choice - even if you don¡¯t use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. ??
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can¡¯t or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. ? Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. ?If you don¡¯t get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I¡¯ll text Hansj?rg Felder directly. ? You¡¯re about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. ? PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it¡¯s value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. ? If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you¡¯re working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you¡¯re trying to miter. ? ?If you¡¯re planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36¡±) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. ? In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn¡¯t index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. ? I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. ? My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it¡¯s digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. ? I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I¡¯m going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I¡¯ll drop on the EGL. ?
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. ??
One other word of caution. ? If you plan to use the shaper much, you¡¯ll want a power feeder. ? Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. ? You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. ? However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. ? This may have changed - I don¡¯t know, but you should know, and if it¡¯s true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best
??
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.? I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.? David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.? I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.? Does anyone who has one like theirs??? Why?? Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.? Is this still the case?? Is it different on the electric scoring unit?? I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
All I can tell you is that every dealer says the other cars are worse for repairs.? I've always been lucky but if you watch videos on how these cars are made and the amount of electronics stuffed in every corner, you wonder how they run at all.? I always
thought Audi's all wheel drive- Haldex - was the best out there but most others are using? systems pretty similar now.? My wife loves her RX 350 and it is dependable.? I hate driving it.? I've a friend with a Q7 but he is so rich that he wouldn't remember
which car was in the shop so no help.? Dave
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Show quoted text
From: felder-woodworking@... on behalf of Marty Shultz mbshultz@... [felder-woodworking]
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 7:18 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
?
It looks like this thread is hijacked towards cars.?
I am in the market for a car and the new Audi Q7 has very good test reports. Do any of you have experience with Audi that is relevant to their newer cars?
Thanks?
?
I agree that the low end Mercedes is not what I'd spend for.? I don't use or like half the electronics on any of them and am strictly a buy the large sedan I like to drive the best- and what can be found that is 2 years old, tricked out and under 5K in miles.?
I've had most all of them and like every machine I've owned, it could be better.? Dave
?
I used to be?really into German cars. I owned?Mostly BMW but also one Audi and one Mercedes. This was ten years ago now. I owned six BMW's in that time all the way from a 318i to a Near new M3.
By far the Mercedes was the biggest piece of crap car i ever owned. For point of refernce i now own a Nissan Frontier and althought the trim is plastic it is a very reliable and well built vehicle.??
Bellow every surface of that Mercedes was plastic. From a engineering perspective the car handled like crap also. If?you know anything about cars and put your head under the hood you would quickly understand why! Everything was bottom of th barrel.?Now
this was a C class but still a Mercedes non the less. I had a Jetta that was by far superior with regard to quality of build regarding both engineeiring and fit and finish.
I would say Felder is like a nice VW imop... Maybe mid range A4?
?
On Sunday, December 4, 2016, James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
I have precision miter with length compensation.?
James
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
|
?
Interesting.? The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170 Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence O 173 Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger
O 171 Digital flip stop 74¡± (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126¡± (3200 mm) for outrigger 1500 O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 ()
or the 171 ()
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
It looks like this thread is hijacked towards cars.?
I am in the market for a car and the new Audi Q7 has very good test reports. Do any of you have experience with Audi that is relevant to their newer cars?
Thanks?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
I agree that the low end Mercedes is not what I'd spend for.? I don't use or like half the electronics on any of them and am strictly a buy the large sedan I like to drive the best- and what can be found that is 2 years old, tricked out and under 5K in miles.?
I've had most all of them and like every machine I've owned, it could be better.? Dave
?
I used to be?really into German cars. I owned?Mostly BMW but also one Audi and one Mercedes. This was ten years ago now. I owned six BMW's in that time all the way from a 318i to a Near new M3.
By far the Mercedes was the biggest piece of crap car i ever owned. For point of refernce i now own a Nissan Frontier and althought the trim is plastic it is a very reliable and well built vehicle.??
Bellow every surface of that Mercedes was plastic. From a engineering perspective the car handled like crap also. If?you know anything about cars and put your head under the hood you would quickly understand why! Everything was bottom of th barrel.?Now
this was a C class but still a Mercedes non the less. I had a Jetta that was by far superior with regard to quality of build regarding both engineeiring and fit and finish.
I would say Felder is like a nice VW imop... Maybe mid range A4?
?
On Sunday, December 4, 2016, James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
I have precision miter with length compensation.?
James
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
|
?
Interesting.? The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170 Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence O 173 Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger
O 171 Digital flip stop 74¡± (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126¡± (3200 mm) for outrigger 1500 O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 ()
or the 171 ()
|
Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
Hi Denis,
I gave not played with it but I would start with mounting thd accelerometer on the motor housing. I assume most of the motion would be along the rotational axis. If accelerometer does not work, one can still sense the motor current but use a wireless communication.
Dan's design is solid and should be able to accommodate diff Amperage motors with "relatively" minor tweaks.
1. Sensors with different transfer functions (essentially diff no. of turns on pickup coil) can be used on different motors.
2. Signal can be attenuated with different resistance values, selectable via dip switches. Or for fancier version the micro can select the attenuation.
Right now, I have too much going on to work on such project but I certainly would enjoy working out the details.
|
nearing completion base unit
I started this a while back.?? I took down a? norway maple tree?
on the property.? This is? made from that tree.
There's a forced hot water toe kick heater on it's on zone? with
a wireless thermostat and I'm going to make the molding to go
around the base.?? Originall y there was not going to be a molding
on the base but the house is over? 250 years old? and the floors
are anything but? flat and level and it was either lift it? little
and put molding under or start marking and sawing on the
baseboard. I chose the former.
Here is the base unit? The upper unit is still in design phase
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Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
One last digression as well.? The new 7 series BMW is a really nice ride.? In a year or two it would have been on my list as they are taking a beating on the used market here.? Seems they were expected to jump ahead more of the W222 S class redone in 2014
.? The redesigned A8L will be out next spring so that may become the pick of the litter.? Dave
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Show quoted text
From: felder-woodworking@... on behalf of patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 4:20 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
?
?
After my last post i though i should had mentioned i have never driven or owned?a Mercedes Gullwing or AMG anything of that caliber. Maybe i just dont knw what i dont know??I have been in many top of the line S500 Mercedes and always felt a 700 series BMW
was a much?nicer car. I digress, i should finish my original?thought.?I?have alao never?seen a?Kapa 500 or Format anything in person. So?in all fairness maybe my comparison is not up to snuff.
I have always felt though that for the same money spent on a Mercedes you could get a much more refined machine in a BMW. Again things change and maybe in the last ten years the scales have tipped out of the favor of BMW.
Anyway this is not what this thread is about. I suppose i just wish to own a slider period ;)
On Sunday, December 4, 2016, 'James Baker' jamesbaker1@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
There are multiple James answering this thread, but I have the 173, nothing digital on my saw, all cursor and eyeball settings.
?
?
?
Interesting.? The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170 Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence[?] O 173 Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger[?] O 171 Digital flip stop 74¡± (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126¡± (3200
mm) for outrigger 1500[?] O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 ()
or the 171 ()
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Glen:
David references me with regard to the x-roll outrigger, so I thought I would add my vote for that option. It is exceptionally desirable and I love that feature.
I¡¯m perhaps a little stronger than average, and I can say that the Kappa 400 crosscut fence, with 3 x DRO stops is very heavy. It is too heavy to remove and install easily and regularly. I have the outrigger cart, and although it is possible to get the outrigger and the fence onto the cart, the result is so heavy and ungainly that I wouldn¡¯t do that (I did it once!). Instead, when I take the outrigger off, I grab a blanket, take the crosscut fence off (which is quite easy except for the weight), and lay it on the floor. Better would be to have a dedicated spot on the wall for it. I then remove the outrigger and store on the cart.
Incidentally, I love the DRO system on the crosscut fence so much that I use the Kappa 400 exclusively with the outrigger installed. The only reason I take off the fence is to eek out a little more length for straight-line rips on the slider.
Back to the x-roll outrigger option. In order to change the angle on the crosscut fence, I need to loosen the fence at the pivot point on the slider end of the fence. As you all likely know, this simply involves loosening a knob underneath the outrigger. I then loosen a locking knob on the little x-roll table built into the outrigger, and physically push the fence to the desired angle. To be clear, there is a second ¡°pivot¡± point in the little x-roll table on which the fence rides. Since the table moves (parallel to the main x-roll sliding table), I can move the fence through any angle up to 46 degrees, as the little x-roll table slides with?the fence. Once I¡¯m at the desired position, I simply lock the fence and go for it.
Three more points:?
The x-roll table on the outrigger has a fine adjustment knob which is keyed into the x-roll table such that I can dial in the precise angle I want. I could use the adjustment knob to move the fence from 90 degrees to the target angle, but I find the best procedure is to push the fence in gross movements so that I¡¯m close, and then grab the adjustment knob and go for those last few tenths of a degree.
How do I dial in for those last few tenths of a degree? Well, when you option the x-roll outrigger, you get a digital readout for the angle. I love that! My mitres now look pretty good since I can specify 45.3 degrees, to make sure the joint is closed on the outside.
I did not get the automatic length compensation feature for my crosscut fence on the outrigger. It is a nice feature and would be wonderful if I were cutting mitres all the time. In reality, I very rarely cut mitres, and when I do I just sneak up on the length of cut like everyone else. I don¡¯t regret not having the compensation feature.
Lucky
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Show quoted text
Glen,
The outrigger table options are indeed confusing. ? Let me try to clarify:
The 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables are basically the same except 1300 is 200mm less wide and only works on sliding tables 8-feet long or shorter. ? Sliding tables longer than 98-inches require the 1500 outrigger (the support arm under the table that supports it throughout the travel of the sliding table must extend further, and is thus longer, and so is the table above it to match). ? I don¡¯t believe Felder offers the 1300 outrigger table on the Kappa 400 (they do on the 700-series) if you get one of the shorter sliding tables.
There is a third outrigger table called the ¡°X-Roll¡± outrigger( option 161) - talk about creating confusion with that name !!! ? ?Anyway, the X-Roll outrigger has a roller-bearing actuated small table that supports the crosscut fence on the outrigger table, and makes it much easer to reposition the fence for angled cuts. ? The digital crosscut fence is about twice as heavy as the analog version, and if you load it up with a digital telescoping extension, it ends up about 50 pounds total. ? Trying to man-handle that fence into the precision miter guide indexing system is a real chore and you can easily damage that index system if you¡¯re not careful. ? So they came up with the X-Roll outrigger table to address this, which has it¡¯s own digital readout of the fence angle built in. ? You can also provision that X-Roll table with a radio transmitter system so it talks to the digital crosscut stops and they cooperate in computing the true position of the stop from the blade when the fence is not at 90-degrees. ? ?The X-Roll outrigger unit even has a hand crank for precise positioning of the angle. ? I don¡¯t have the X-Roll outrigger table (wish I did) but David Luckensmeyer does. ? Look at the photo in the following link and you¡¯ll see the X-Roll outrigger table element directly under the crosscut stop - it moves just like the sliding table, but of course is miniature in comparison - you¡¯ll also see the digital readout for the angle of the crosscut fence in the box between the crosscut stop and the sliding table:?
?
As for the crosscut fences, what I posted just prior to this for Michael applies to the Kappa 400, although there are additional option numbers relating to the radio compensation system on the X-Roll outrigger. ?Any of the crosscut fences can be put on any of the outrigger tables, although typically the X-Roll outrigger table
As for digital crosscut stops, I¡¯ll add the following. ? The standard digital crosscut stop has the flipper on the left - which means the closest it will go to the blade is just over 8 inches. ? If you want a digital crosscut stop that gets closer to the saw blade, you have to ADD (not substitute) an additional crosscut stop which is Felder part number 604-118. ? That stop has the flipper on the right and will position down to about 3-inches from the blade. ?The digital crosscut stop on the telescoping extension is dedicated to the extension and can not be positioned below 74-inches. ? On the non-digital crosscut fences, the analog crosscut stops can be used on the main part of the fence, or positioned on the telescoping extension - this is not the case with the digital stops. ? More info on the digital stops is here - including a document on how to calibrate them: ??
Sing out if you have more questions.
David Best
Hi David
So I haven't said anything lately, I have just been read your and everyone else s posts and I have gathered a wealth of information.
I have looked at some of the other stuff you have mentioned and I think I am set on the kappa 400 x. I have spent many hours looking at this saw and I have to say i understand it pretty well except for the options on the outrigger table. This messages helps but I still cant quite figure it out.? Looking at the pictures of your saw i think we have the same set up but im not exactly sure. Looking at the book there seems to be three variations of the outrigger. I wish you were my Felder Rep it would make it much easier for me to figure this all out.
Glen ??
-----Original Message----- From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' ?david@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 8:36 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit ?Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. ? I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. ? If you have the power for electronic scoring (it¡¯s a separate motor), and don¡¯t mind spending the additional for it, then it¡¯s clearly a better choice - even if you don¡¯t use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. ??
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can¡¯t or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. ? Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. ?If you don¡¯t get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I¡¯ll text Hansj?rg Felder directly. ? You¡¯re about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. ? PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it¡¯s value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. ? If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you¡¯re working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you¡¯re trying to miter. ? ?If you¡¯re planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36¡±) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. ? In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn¡¯t index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. ? I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. ? My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it¡¯s digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. ? I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I¡¯m going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I¡¯ll drop on the EGL. ?
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. ??
One other word of caution. ? If you plan to use the shaper much, you¡¯ll want a power feeder. ? Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. ? You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. ? However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. ? This may have changed - I don¡¯t know, but you should know, and if it¡¯s true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best ??
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.? I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.? David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.? I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.? Does anyone who has one like theirs??? Why?? Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.? Is this still the case?? Is it different on the electric scoring unit?? I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
HI, I have a 2000 C3-31, a combnation machine. I love that machine, but the rip fence and the mitre gauge were not usable, at all, I replaced both. If you have a similar machine the fence rail primary attachment is to the joiner table, so it detaches from a support point near the blade and rotates past vertical when you flip up the forward joiner bed to convert to thickness planing. Does this sound familar? If so I can walk you through my conversion which works great. I feel that a Unifence, IF you can find one of these discontinued fences, is perfect for the upgrade.
Brian(J)
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
After my last post i though i should had mentioned i have never driven or owned?a Mercedes Gullwing or AMG anything of that caliber. Maybe i just dont knw what i dont know??I have been in many top of the line S500 Mercedes and always felt a 700 series BMW was a much?nicer car. I digress, i should finish my original?thought.?I?have alao never?seen a?Kapa 500 or Format anything in person. So?in all fairness maybe my comparison is not up to snuff.
I have always felt though that for the same money spent on a Mercedes you could get a much more refined machine in a BMW. Again things change and maybe in the last ten years the scales have tipped out of the favor of BMW.
Anyway this is not what this thread is about. I suppose i just wish to own a slider period ;)
?
There are multiple James answering this thread, but I have the 173, nothing digital on my saw, all cursor and eyeball settings. ? ? ? Interesting.? The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170 Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence[?] O 173 Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger[?] O 171 Digital flip stop 74¡± (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126¡± (3200 mm) for outrigger 1500[?] O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 ()
or the 171 ()
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
There are multiple James answering this thread, but I have the 173, nothing digital on my saw, all cursor and eyeball settings. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2016 10:17 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit? ? Interesting.? The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170 Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence[?] O 173 Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger[?] O 171 Digital flip stop 74¡± (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126¡± (3200 mm) for outrigger 1500[?] O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 ()
or the 171 ()
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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
Certainly possible. ?The Arduino world has lots of breakout boards for wifi and bluetooth, and replacing the wires with these devices could be slick. ?I'd set this up so each machine has a unique identifier and sends a "I'm now off / I'm now on" signal to a central hub. ?Similarly, the hub would send a "open / close" command to the appropriate blast gate, again with a unique identifier.
Only real downside to the wireless solution is cost, as each machine and gate would need is own arduino board with wifi/bluetooth and a battery supply. ?
Dan
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imran
David Luckensmeyer