Re: #Servicing 2011 Dual51 and Similar Jointer/Planer
#servicing
I'm similar to Imran in that I keep my Shop thermostat set to 45F overnight, and 55F during the day. If I'm planning on glueing or finishing I'll bump it up to 60F. No AC in the Summer. Heat source is a gas-fired high-efficiency furnace. Not necessarily ideal, but it keeps energy costs reasonable. Maybe once I insulate I'll bump the thermostat setting up a few....?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Straightlining lumber
Hi Glen,
?
As far as T&G is concerned the surprise for me has been that even with hundreds of $ invested in pressure modules they do not guarantee that the board does not move away from the fence. I have only done 8¡¯ to 12¡¯ lengths in any qty and despite trying to keep an eye on it I still find boards that moved away from fence near trailing edge. This is with 2 pressure modules. I use 4 wheeler in middle straddling fences and 2 wheeler on outfeed. No scientific study but I suspect this is likely to happen more with longer boards where a good part is unsupported by the fence.
?
Solution is outboard fence. I have not tried it but some here have and seem satisfied. Now that I have a dedicated shaper I plan to try it at the next opportunity.
?
Imran
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:32 AM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote:
In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
|
Re: Straightlining lumber
Hi Brett,
That is fair. I just asked because I have done both and I find sled efficient and easier. However, I am far from being an expert on anything. I am in awe of you and others who routinely handle a vast variety of jobs. So I always inquire when I read something that does not match my experience because I could be doing something wrong or not as efficiently as possible.
Imran
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On Mar 23, 2021, at 9:55 AM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? Imran,?
I've not used the SLR sled in the earlier reference mostly because I don't like taking time to make jigs if I can just get the job done some other way. I'm not in a position to argue it's effectiveness, rather offering another set of points for consideration. Despite the fact using a slider is fantastic, it's still not always the only answer.?
In my referenced job recently I had to dimension and mill angles on all 4 corners and do some squirrelly?stuff to match and splice into an existing build. I tried to hand feed first just to see if it would pass muster, and discovered that it worked great. I forget myself to give credit to the fact that a $20k+ saw is one heck of a hand-feed right-side-of-the-blade machine too. ;)
But I HATED having to flip the boards 2 different ways for the miter-tilt to accommodate and running the boards through 4 different passes. Just handling the boards was a huge pain. I can't imagine doing it for 150+ boards, my shoulders are already in shape from stripping and carrying doors and furniture all day but I felt the handing of just doing 10 or so boards, 4 times through each, flipping and spinning. Glen's a good guy, I'd speak up to him to spare any pain possible! On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 8:40 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Brett,
Have you used a sled for SLR?
I would do may be 3 to 5 boards with track saw but sled comes out for higher qty. No contest for over 100 boards Glen is looking at.
Getting them S1S is definitely a big time saver but I have my stash of air dried lumber. Since K975 I have not used sled, which is great.
Imran ? Glen,?
Are you getting S1S? I buy my quantity lumber at minimum 1-side straightlined and hit-and-miss planed. Plus I find I can stack it easier and the price is insignificant compared?to the confidence I get in better yield per board.?
Having had to do 16'+ length T+G recently myself, I opted this method (mind you one side was bought straight-lined already):
1. Use expanding roller tables on outfeed?side to carry the long boards off the saw.?
2. Use flat tables on my rolling carts to support infeed so it didn't sag/bow
3. HAND FEED right side of the blade with rip fence. The riving knife?protecting the boards after the cut.
4. Don't worry about saw kerf marks, when processing the T or G, the cutters clean them off anyway.?
5. Stand board on edge to verify plane.
6. Repeat.
7.?
Handling 16'+ boards around slider clamps, ceiling heights, over-saw dust shrouds, and possibly having to flip them when you realized you lined them up wrong will get very tedious after the 2nd board. Then carrying them to and from the stack.You will then say to yourself "there's got to be a better way".
BETTER METHOD:
1. If you have a Festool track saw and enough track (or a jig) to make the length, use it. In a pinch I've used metal studs clamped together or a stick or Timberstrand LSL, way cheaper than Festool rails if you need to be creative, but it won't demonstrate where the cut will be before you cut it like the guide rails, so you might want to make a set of guide blocks to aid setup if you go that route.
2. It's not really "better quality" than your slider, but it's acceptable and way easier steps. You can basically slide one board off the side of the stack enough to clear the kerf, chop it, and side-slide it into a new stack, maybe even leaving the whole mess on your trailer without fully unloading or having to pick up the weight of a full board.
3. Drive to the buddie's house, with a case of beer for you and him. On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 6:16 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Glen,
The video Jonathan shared shows how to make one. I would add few observations from my use of one.
First I made mine with thin ply on each side of 1/2¡± spacers. Being 12¡¯ long I added 4¡¯ length on opposing ends so the joint is offset. I believe it is 3/4¡± thick but not sure if it would be substantially stiffer if I used 1¡± thick wood between plys. It is about 14¡± wide. I do have two ~2¡± wide continuous runs of wood (lengthwise) between plys that line up with 2 slots in the slider.
People with short slider like 76¡± on my KF700 may benefit from having the runner that is captured in slider slot, that is how I did mine. It prevents the sled from lifting but down side is that you have to thread the sled in the slot as opposed to just dropping it down.
Working alone with long pieces it helps to have a stop block screwed on the leading end with a nail in it. I push end grain of the board into nail to fix that end and then move to the trailing end to adjust it without having the leading end move on me.
Now that I have 10¡¯ slider, there is not a great chance of lifting besides 16¡¯ sled is too long to thread.?I will likely experiment with a fixed runner secured in the slider and make sled out of solid material as apposed to box construction of my current sled. One advantage is that it is easier to support the sled with flat bottom (runner not attached to the bottom of the sled). You will need to support the sled if it goes 3¡¯ (just a guess but there about) or more off of the slider. For this reason I lock my slider in middle so support stands stay in one place as sled is moved.
The advantage of solid board vs my box construction is that one can use the dovetail hold downs as shown in video. My original hold downs were just scraps of wood holding down the long edge not being cut. I later added Kreg hold downs with a captured T bolt that is recessed into the bottom surface of sled. With 2 sets of T bolt holes I can handle narrow and wide boards.
Imran ?In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: Straightlining lumber
Imran,?
I've not used the SLR sled in the earlier reference mostly because I don't like taking time to make jigs if I can just get the job done some other way. I'm not in a position to argue it's effectiveness, rather offering another set of points for consideration. Despite the fact using a slider is fantastic, it's still not always the only answer.?
In my referenced job recently I had to dimension and mill angles on all 4 corners and do some squirrelly?stuff to match and splice into an existing build. I tried to hand feed first just to see if it would pass muster, and discovered that it worked great. I forget myself to give credit to the fact that a $20k+ saw is one heck of a hand-feed right-side-of-the-blade machine too. ;)
But I HATED having to flip the boards 2 different ways for the miter-tilt to accommodate and running the boards through 4 different passes. Just handling the boards was a huge pain. I can't imagine doing it for 150+ boards, my shoulders are already in shape from stripping and carrying doors and furniture all day but I felt the handing of just doing 10 or so boards, 4 times through each, flipping and spinning. Glen's a good guy, I'd speak up to him to spare any pain possible!
On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 8:40 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Brett,
Have you used a sled for SLR?
I would do may be 3 to 5 boards with track saw but sled comes out for higher qty. No contest for over 100 boards Glen is looking at.
Getting them S1S is definitely a big time saver but I have my stash of air dried lumber. Since K975 I have not used sled, which is great.
Imran ? Glen,?
Are you getting S1S? I buy my quantity lumber at minimum 1-side straightlined and hit-and-miss planed. Plus I find I can stack it easier and the price is insignificant compared?to the confidence I get in better yield per board.?
Having had to do 16'+ length T+G recently myself, I opted this method (mind you one side was bought straight-lined already):
1. Use expanding roller tables on outfeed?side to carry the long boards off the saw.?
2. Use flat tables on my rolling carts to support infeed so it didn't sag/bow
3. HAND FEED right side of the blade with rip fence. The riving knife?protecting the boards after the cut.
4. Don't worry about saw kerf marks, when processing the T or G, the cutters clean them off anyway.?
5. Stand board on edge to verify plane.
6. Repeat.
7.?
Handling 16'+ boards around slider clamps, ceiling heights, over-saw dust shrouds, and possibly having to flip them when you realized you lined them up wrong will get very tedious after the 2nd board. Then carrying them to and from the stack.You will then say to yourself "there's got to be a better way".
BETTER METHOD:
1. If you have a Festool track saw and enough track (or a jig) to make the length, use it. In a pinch I've used metal studs clamped together or a stick or Timberstrand LSL, way cheaper than Festool rails if you need to be creative, but it won't demonstrate where the cut will be before you cut it like the guide rails, so you might want to make a set of guide blocks to aid setup if you go that route.
2. It's not really "better quality" than your slider, but it's acceptable and way easier steps. You can basically slide one board off the side of the stack enough to clear the kerf, chop it, and side-slide it into a new stack, maybe even leaving the whole mess on your trailer without fully unloading or having to pick up the weight of a full board.
3. Drive to the buddie's house, with a case of beer for you and him. On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 6:16 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Glen,
The video Jonathan shared shows how to make one. I would add few observations from my use of one.
First I made mine with thin ply on each side of 1/2¡± spacers. Being 12¡¯ long I added 4¡¯ length on opposing ends so the joint is offset. I believe it is 3/4¡± thick but not sure if it would be substantially stiffer if I used 1¡± thick wood between plys. It is about 14¡± wide. I do have two ~2¡± wide continuous runs of wood (lengthwise) between plys that line up with 2 slots in the slider.
People with short slider like 76¡± on my KF700 may benefit from having the runner that is captured in slider slot, that is how I did mine. It prevents the sled from lifting but down side is that you have to thread the sled in the slot as opposed to just dropping it down.
Working alone with long pieces it helps to have a stop block screwed on the leading end with a nail in it. I push end grain of the board into nail to fix that end and then move to the trailing end to adjust it without having the leading end move on me.
Now that I have 10¡¯ slider, there is not a great chance of lifting besides 16¡¯ sled is too long to thread.?I will likely experiment with a fixed runner secured in the slider and make sled out of solid material as apposed to box construction of my current sled. One advantage is that it is easier to support the sled with flat bottom (runner not attached to the bottom of the sled). You will need to support the sled if it goes 3¡¯ (just a guess but there about) or more off of the slider. For this reason I lock my slider in middle so support stands stay in one place as sled is moved.
The advantage of solid board vs my box construction is that one can use the dovetail hold downs as shown in video. My original hold downs were just scraps of wood holding down the long edge not being cut. I later added Kreg hold downs with a captured T bolt that is recessed into the bottom surface of sled. With 2 sets of T bolt holes I can handle narrow and wide boards.
Imran ?In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: #Servicing 2011 Dual51 and Similar Jointer/Planer
#servicing
Jason,
I use electric radiant heat panels for heating my shop. While pretty efficient it still costs money. I am not generating any income from WW. I have kept it at 50F in past and would stay warm with activity. This winter, I did not have a large project and noted I needed additional layers to stay comfortable or could be that I am just getting old (well that is a fact) for 50F.
You are correct about glue and finishing. I get shop to 60 for those tasks.
Imran
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On Mar 23, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote: ? Imaran, How is shop temperature 50? That's barely warm enough for Titebond, and definitely not warm enough for my hands. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Straightlining lumber
Brett,
Have you used a sled for SLR?
I would do may be 3 to 5 boards with track saw but sled comes out for higher qty. No contest for over 100 boards Glen is looking at.
Getting them S1S is definitely a big time saver but I have my stash of air dried lumber. Since K975 I have not used sled, which is great.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 9:13 AM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? Glen,?
Are you getting S1S? I buy my quantity lumber at minimum 1-side straightlined and hit-and-miss planed. Plus I find I can stack it easier and the price is insignificant compared?to the confidence I get in better yield per board.?
Having had to do 16'+ length T+G recently myself, I opted this method (mind you one side was bought straight-lined already):
1. Use expanding roller tables on outfeed?side to carry the long boards off the saw.?
2. Use flat tables on my rolling carts to support infeed so it didn't sag/bow
3. HAND FEED right side of the blade with rip fence. The riving knife?protecting the boards after the cut.
4. Don't worry about saw kerf marks, when processing the T or G, the cutters clean them off anyway.?
5. Stand board on edge to verify plane.
6. Repeat.
7.?
Handling 16'+ boards around slider clamps, ceiling heights, over-saw dust shrouds, and possibly having to flip them when you realized you lined them up wrong will get very tedious after the 2nd board. Then carrying them to and from the stack.You will then say to yourself "there's got to be a better way".
BETTER METHOD:
1. If you have a Festool track saw and enough track (or a jig) to make the length, use it. In a pinch I've used metal studs clamped together or a stick or Timberstrand LSL, way cheaper than Festool rails if you need to be creative, but it won't demonstrate where the cut will be before you cut it like the guide rails, so you might want to make a set of guide blocks to aid setup if you go that route.
2. It's not really "better quality" than your slider, but it's acceptable and way easier steps. You can basically slide one board off the side of the stack enough to clear the kerf, chop it, and side-slide it into a new stack, maybe even leaving the whole mess on your trailer without fully unloading or having to pick up the weight of a full board.
3. Drive to the buddie's house, with a case of beer for you and him. On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 6:16 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Glen,
The video Jonathan shared shows how to make one. I would add few observations from my use of one.
First I made mine with thin ply on each side of 1/2¡± spacers. Being 12¡¯ long I added 4¡¯ length on opposing ends so the joint is offset. I believe it is 3/4¡± thick but not sure if it would be substantially stiffer if I used 1¡± thick wood between plys. It is about 14¡± wide. I do have two ~2¡± wide continuous runs of wood (lengthwise) between plys that line up with 2 slots in the slider.
People with short slider like 76¡± on my KF700 may benefit from having the runner that is captured in slider slot, that is how I did mine. It prevents the sled from lifting but down side is that you have to thread the sled in the slot as opposed to just dropping it down.
Working alone with long pieces it helps to have a stop block screwed on the leading end with a nail in it. I push end grain of the board into nail to fix that end and then move to the trailing end to adjust it without having the leading end move on me.
Now that I have 10¡¯ slider, there is not a great chance of lifting besides 16¡¯ sled is too long to thread.?I will likely experiment with a fixed runner secured in the slider and make sled out of solid material as apposed to box construction of my current sled. One advantage is that it is easier to support the sled with flat bottom (runner not attached to the bottom of the sled). You will need to support the sled if it goes 3¡¯ (just a guess but there about) or more off of the slider. For this reason I lock my slider in middle so support stands stay in one place as sled is moved.
The advantage of solid board vs my box construction is that one can use the dovetail hold downs as shown in video. My original hold downs were just scraps of wood holding down the long edge not being cut. I later added Kreg hold downs with a captured T bolt that is recessed into the bottom surface of sled. With 2 sets of T bolt holes I can handle narrow and wide boards.
Imran ?In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: #Servicing 2011 Dual51 and Similar Jointer/Planer
#servicing
Imaran, How is shop temperature 50? That's barely warm enough for Titebond, and definitely not warm enough for my hands. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Straightlining lumber
a basic 22n will do all 4 in one pass Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 23, 2021, at 4:53 AM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? SLR saw for sure. Doesn't your buddy have one? Most people who have a moulder do. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Straightlining lumber
Hi Glen Why not just joint them than batch a bunch together and plane to width or let the moulder do it. We I assume are just talking 16¡¯ 1¡± and less than 25# a price ?even if 2¡± not so much so no big deal. Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 23, 2021, at 6:16 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Glen,
The video Jonathan shared shows how to make one. I would add few observations from my use of one.
First I made mine with thin ply on each side of 1/2¡± spacers. Being 12¡¯ long I added 4¡¯ length on opposing ends so the joint is offset. I believe it is 3/4¡± thick but not sure if it would be substantially stiffer if I used 1¡± thick wood between plys. It is about 14¡± wide. I do have two ~2¡± wide continuous runs of wood (lengthwise) between plys that line up with 2 slots in the slider.
People with short slider like 76¡± on my KF700 may benefit from having the runner that is captured in slider slot, that is how I did mine. It prevents the sled from lifting but down side is that you have to thread the sled in the slot as opposed to just dropping it down.
Working alone with long pieces it helps to have a stop block screwed on the leading end with a nail in it. I push end grain of the board into nail to fix that end and then move to the trailing end to adjust it without having the leading end move on me.
Now that I have 10¡¯ slider, there is not a great chance of lifting besides 16¡¯ sled is too long to thread.?I will likely experiment with a fixed runner secured in the slider and make sled out of solid material as apposed to box construction of my current sled. One advantage is that it is easier to support the sled with flat bottom (runner not attached to the bottom of the sled). You will need to support the sled if it goes 3¡¯ (just a guess but there about) or more off of the slider. For this reason I lock my slider in middle so support stands stay in one place as sled is moved.
The advantage of solid board vs my box construction is that one can use the dovetail hold downs as shown in video. My original hold downs were just scraps of wood holding down the long edge not being cut. I later added Kreg hold downs with a captured T bolt that is recessed into the bottom surface of sled. With 2 sets of T bolt holes I can handle narrow and wide boards.
Imran
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:32 AM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote:
?In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
|
Re: Straightlining lumber
Glen,?
You might check what a local lumberyard would charge to straight line rip. My vendor in Oklahoma City charges $0.08 a board foot to straight line. It's hard to beat that price.?
Jarrett?
On Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:16 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Glen,
The video Jonathan shared shows how to make one. I would add few observations from my use of one.
First I made mine with thin ply on each side of 1/2¡± spacers. Being 12¡¯ long I added 4¡¯ length on opposing ends so the joint is offset. I believe it is 3/4¡± thick but not sure if it would be substantially stiffer if I used 1¡± thick wood between plys. It is about 14¡± wide. I do have two ~2¡± wide continuous runs of wood (lengthwise) between plys that line up with 2 slots in the slider.
People with short slider like 76¡± on my KF700 may benefit from having the runner that is captured in slider slot, that is how I did mine. It prevents the sled from lifting but down side is that you have to thread the sled in the slot as opposed to just dropping it down.
Working alone with long pieces it helps to have a stop block screwed on the leading end with a nail in it. I push end grain of the board into nail to fix that end and then move to the trailing end to adjust it without having the leading end move on me.
Now that I have 10¡¯ slider, there is not a great chance of lifting besides 16¡¯ sled is too long to thread.?I will likely experiment with a fixed runner secured in the slider and make sled out of solid material as apposed to box construction of my current sled. One advantage is that it is easier to support the sled with flat bottom (runner not attached to the bottom of the sled). You will need to support the sled if it goes 3¡¯ (just a guess but there about) or more off of the slider. For this reason I lock my slider in middle so support stands stay in one place as sled is moved.
The advantage of solid board vs my box construction is that one can use the dovetail hold downs as shown in video. My original hold downs were just scraps of wood holding down the long edge not being cut. I later added Kreg hold downs with a captured T bolt that is recessed into the bottom surface of sled. With 2 sets of T bolt holes I can handle narrow and wide boards.
Imran ?In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
|
Re: Straightlining lumber
Glen,?
Are you getting S1S? I buy my quantity lumber at minimum 1-side straightlined and hit-and-miss planed. Plus I find I can stack it easier and the price is insignificant compared?to the confidence I get in better yield per board.?
Having had to do 16'+ length T+G recently myself, I opted this method (mind you one side was bought straight-lined already):
1. Use expanding roller tables on outfeed?side to carry the long boards off the saw.?
2. Use flat tables on my rolling carts to support infeed so it didn't sag/bow
3. HAND FEED right side of the blade with rip fence. The riving knife?protecting the boards after the cut.
4. Don't worry about saw kerf marks, when processing the T or G, the cutters clean them off anyway.?
5. Stand board on edge to verify plane.
6. Repeat.
7.?
Handling 16'+ boards around slider clamps, ceiling heights, over-saw dust shrouds, and possibly having to flip them when you realized you lined them up wrong will get very tedious after the 2nd board. Then carrying them to and from the stack.You will then say to yourself "there's got to be a better way".
BETTER METHOD:
1. If you have a Festool track saw and enough track (or a jig) to make the length, use it. In a pinch I've used metal studs clamped together or a stick or Timberstrand LSL, way cheaper than Festool rails if you need to be creative, but it won't demonstrate where the cut will be before you cut it like the guide rails, so you might want to make a set of guide blocks to aid setup if you go that route.
2. It's not really "better quality" than your slider, but it's acceptable and way easier steps. You can basically slide one board off the side of the stack enough to clear the kerf, chop it, and side-slide it into a new stack, maybe even leaving the whole mess on your trailer without fully unloading or having to pick up the weight of a full board.
3. Drive to the buddie's house, with a case of beer for you and him.
On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 6:16 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Glen,
The video Jonathan shared shows how to make one. I would add few observations from my use of one.
First I made mine with thin ply on each side of 1/2¡± spacers. Being 12¡¯ long I added 4¡¯ length on opposing ends so the joint is offset. I believe it is 3/4¡± thick but not sure if it would be substantially stiffer if I used 1¡± thick wood between plys. It is about 14¡± wide. I do have two ~2¡± wide continuous runs of wood (lengthwise) between plys that line up with 2 slots in the slider.
People with short slider like 76¡± on my KF700 may benefit from having the runner that is captured in slider slot, that is how I did mine. It prevents the sled from lifting but down side is that you have to thread the sled in the slot as opposed to just dropping it down.
Working alone with long pieces it helps to have a stop block screwed on the leading end with a nail in it. I push end grain of the board into nail to fix that end and then move to the trailing end to adjust it without having the leading end move on me.
Now that I have 10¡¯ slider, there is not a great chance of lifting besides 16¡¯ sled is too long to thread.?I will likely experiment with a fixed runner secured in the slider and make sled out of solid material as apposed to box construction of my current sled. One advantage is that it is easier to support the sled with flat bottom (runner not attached to the bottom of the sled). You will need to support the sled if it goes 3¡¯ (just a guess but there about) or more off of the slider. For this reason I lock my slider in middle so support stands stay in one place as sled is moved.
The advantage of solid board vs my box construction is that one can use the dovetail hold downs as shown in video. My original hold downs were just scraps of wood holding down the long edge not being cut. I later added Kreg hold downs with a captured T bolt that is recessed into the bottom surface of sled. With 2 sets of T bolt holes I can handle narrow and wide boards.
Imran ?In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Which shaper is that?? Is that the side tenoning table I see? Thanks, Dave Davies
I ordered a spindle moulder from SCM last July. and it finally arrived yesterday.
Just happy it got here given the hard times Italy were exposed to the pandemic.?
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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I ordered a spindle moulder from SCM last July. and it finally arrived yesterday.
Just happy it got here given the hard times Italy were exposed to the pandemic.?
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Awesome.? Congratulations.? Memories too.? I remember building descending platforms (vs ramps) to use rented pallet jack to get my kf700 from pallet to garage floor.
On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 8:28 AM Andrew Brant < andrew@...> wrote: Hi! I ordered an AD741 last september from the felder office in Sacramento, and it¡¯s finally home! It hasn¡¯t been an easy year to get anything in a pallet from europe but it made it.?
I¡¯ve been woodworking for about ten years, mostly on the nights and weekends while i had a corporate day job in film production in silicon valley, and I would pay my SF rent by making stuff with hand tools in my backyard woodshed. Quit the job and followed my passion and went to the Krenov School in fort bragg. So now i¡¯m putting together my own shop and doing what i was doing full time.?
wanted to write about the experience so far, and in case i need any help from here! Smooth sailing.
Delivery was great, got it in my covered trailer easily on a forklift straight in. I bought two thousand pound straps, 8 - 2x4 x 24¡±, 8- ?2x4 x 8ft, and had six or so 3/4, 1/2, and 1/4 4ft x4ft squares before delivery.?
i screwed 8 of the short 2x4s around the base kf
the pallet, around each corner, so it wasn¡¯t going anywhere on the drive back over the mountains to the coast. Straps weren¡¯t necessary at all but maybe they helped?
Got it home and called a local mover who got it into the lift gate and down the ground with pallet jacks, and then it took two full size ones to move it into the garage.?
Then, by myself I basically extended the pallet as much as I made a ramp, move it all the way over, kicked the pallet out, and seeing it was more than stable, i unscrewed 2x4¡¯s and knocked them out slowly with a sledgehammer. The machine didn¡¯t move at all while i did this, and i had stop blocks down so it wouldn¡¯t fall more than half an or so at a time. I¡¯d knock a few out, level it, move a piece of plywood from one end to the other and just slowly moved it back and forth about four times, like walking a switchback down a steep mountain trail. Very slow and easy, until it was down on the floor.?
The balance on a narrow, short pallet jack from globe isn¡¯t great but it works. I found it more tippy on the ground when i want to turn it at too sharp an angle. Straight back and forth is fine.?
I¡¯m going to get it wired up and turned on today, and the fence installed. Everything is ready for it, just have to put the plug end on. Super excited to have this machine finally!
                 
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Re: Straightlining lumber
Glen,
The video Jonathan shared shows how to make one. I would add few observations from my use of one.
First I made mine with thin ply on each side of 1/2¡± spacers. Being 12¡¯ long I added 4¡¯ length on opposing ends so the joint is offset. I believe it is 3/4¡± thick but not sure if it would be substantially stiffer if I used 1¡± thick wood between plys. It is about 14¡± wide. I do have two ~2¡± wide continuous runs of wood (lengthwise) between plys that line up with 2 slots in the slider.
People with short slider like 76¡± on my KF700 may benefit from having the runner that is captured in slider slot, that is how I did mine. It prevents the sled from lifting but down side is that you have to thread the sled in the slot as opposed to just dropping it down.
Working alone with long pieces it helps to have a stop block screwed on the leading end with a nail in it. I push end grain of the board into nail to fix that end and then move to the trailing end to adjust it without having the leading end move on me.
Now that I have 10¡¯ slider, there is not a great chance of lifting besides 16¡¯ sled is too long to thread.?I will likely experiment with a fixed runner secured in the slider and make sled out of solid material as apposed to box construction of my current sled. One advantage is that it is easier to support the sled with flat bottom (runner not attached to the bottom of the sled). You will need to support the sled if it goes 3¡¯ (just a guess but there about) or more off of the slider. For this reason I lock my slider in middle so support stands stay in one place as sled is moved.
The advantage of solid board vs my box construction is that one can use the dovetail hold downs as shown in video. My original hold downs were just scraps of wood holding down the long edge not being cut. I later added Kreg hold downs with a captured T bolt that is recessed into the bottom surface of sled. With 2 sets of T bolt holes I can handle narrow and wide boards.
Imran
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On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:32 AM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote: ?In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
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Thank you all. Just getting the rest of the shop cleaned up and set, and tomorrow i should be turning it on. It was a beast to move and yeah, a very long ramp! But i was determined to go slow and be careful.
Hope some of the photos help if anyone else is thinking of buying something like this in a small place. I know i¡¯m grateful for everyone¡¯s posts before me.
Andrew
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Re: #Servicing 2011 Dual51 and Similar Jointer/Planer
#servicing
David,
Since the main drive belt did not show signs of deterioration I left it alone. I did noticed that the belt had a tiny but of flutter. Not sure about hearing a pure tone though. I figured it has not been damaged over 10 yrs (albeit light use) so better leave it alone.
I do not know much about belts. I assume one side is in tension (motor pulling) and the other in compression. I can see the compression side flutter if the belt is on the loose side.
Imran
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On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:59 AM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? Imran, good summary. ?How did you tension the main drive belt? ?My Dual 51 motor shaft snapped off because the early machines from the factory had belt tensions set way too high. ?After replacing the motor,? and several back-and-forth exchanges with Felder about how to know the belt was properly tensioned, the consensus was that when plucked, the belt should resonate at 160 Hz. I scratched my head how I was going to know if the belt was vibrating at 160 Hz. ? Then I decided to translate that to a key on my piano, recorded that sound on my iPhone, then did the belt tensioning to match what I was hearing on the iPhone in the shop. ?Today there is an app for the iPhone that will display the frequency of any sound it¡¯s hearing. ? It is especially good at suggesting when my cocktail ice clinking together is at the right temperature.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
?Thought I document some details of my service effort on Dual51. In case of Dual51 the electrical cabinet in the rear of the machine needs to be removed to get access to cutterhead drive belt and feed rollers. Inside the electrical cabinet, there is a ground wire that is screwed into the back wall (and therefore the chassis behind it) of the cabinet. This ground wire screw has to be removed to remove the electrical cabinet. This is not mentioned in my manual and was a source of great frustration first time around. Once the back is exposed you will see something like this (this is actually the after pic):
<image0.jpeg>
There is a removable link in the chain but be aware that putting the chain back by your self is bit of a pain. I was able to do it but it will go much quicker with a helping hand.
Once chain is removed it can be cleaned thoroughly and removing it allows good access to all sprockets.
<image2.jpeg>
<image4.jpeg>
My manual says use machine grease for chain and related parts but I just used shaper spindle grease which actually appears to be a bit viscous for the chain, at least at 50F shop temp. I wanted to ensure that the chain rollers got greased so I used the heat gun from a distance to warm things up a bit.
<image5.jpeg>
I wiped access grease off. The drive belt looked fine so I closed the rear up.
Next, I removed the covers on both sides under the planer bed. There is a grease zerk for each bed elevation post. I used Felder grease gun to pump grease into these. I continued pumping expecting the grease to come out up top but nothing did then realized that it is actually coming out from underneath. It is not easy to see what is happening below as there is a grill. As I write this, I realize that I could have removed this grill but it did not occur to me to do so at the moment. Once I realized that grease comes out from bottom. I lowered the planer bed causing some of the elevation post to extend below the chassis floor and pumped some more. This way the extra grease actually goes on the post and when the table is raised/lowered a few times it lubricates the post.
<image0.jpeg>?
There is a chain that drives the sprockets on all posts. Red arrow points to this chain. It looked good so I did not feel the need to clean and lube.?I wiped all excess grease, especially below the chassis floor as dust can get to the extended posts.
Hope this is helpful.
Imran
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Re: Straightlining lumber
SLR saw for sure. Doesn't your buddy have one? Most people who have a moulder do. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Straightlining lumber
ROTFLOL
I think this YouTube video does an excellent job:?https://youtu.be/AC9mBotnoBg
Yikes!?
A board for the jig wider than your work so you can setup some stop blocks or a fence??
You're welcome. Good luck!?
Kind regards,?
Jonathan?
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Re: Kids and the Workshop - Funny Story
Thanks again Brian for all your help. ?Amazing customer service!
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Tom Gensmer
imran
Jason Holtz
Albert Lee
Jonathan Martens