Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Wow, what a ride! Congrats on the purchase, I'm sure you'll love it.
Best regards, Mi?elis Vindavs
A little update to wrap this thread up.
After deciding to go with a short stroke B3 I have discovered that a custom order would not be ready until October. That was not ideal for two reasons. One, I expected tariff situation to be uncertain for some time and two, I am kicking off a kitchen remodeling project and having a format saw would be quite useful.
The only B3s that are regularly stocked stateside are of the Comfort spec, with a 6' 8" slider and 1250 rip table to boot. Not a lot of choice but to rearrange the whole shop around the slider, something I really hoped to avoid. Still, after a few late nights a layout emerged that just about worked. And right about when I was ready to put the deposit, the stock B3 that was scheduled to arrive in April went to another buyer, pushing me out into June in the earliest.
Feeling a bit miffed, I started looking for alternatives and stumbled upon a canceled KF700 delivery. That one was even bigger with a 9' slider and 1500 outrigger, but by this time I had a shop layout that could conceivably accommodate one. I took the plunge and expect the machine to arrive before end of month.
That's if I figure out how to get it off the truck. Anyone willing to teach me how to use a forklift? :)
Thanks again for helping me figure this out. Glad to become a part of such a patient and welcoming community.
Stan
On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 16:03, Stan K < 4279427@...> wrote:
Hello, you excellent people,
First time to the group, looking to take the plunge on (relatively) big iron ownership, hoping to run my selection process by you and hopefully reined in if it gets too crazy.
I am a hobbyist woodworker, averaging few hours a week in my two-car-garage-turned-shop. While I used Unisaws and Sawstops in the past, I never bought a table saw for myself, making do with a bandsaw, track saw, lately a miter saw and a peculiar contraption that goes by the name Shopsmith. After ten years in this mode, I just about had it. Sliding table has been on my mind for some time, though I never used one. Long story short, over several months I persuaded myself that I need one in my life.
Most of the work I do is with solid wood, though a recent remodel forced me to deal with cabinetry. Generally, while having a capability to work with sheet goods is appreciated, this is not where I see spending the majority of my time.
Given that I do not have a big space, I made a couple optimization decisions. First, I'd like a saw-shaper combo. While I never used a shaper before, I can see the usefulness of the tool. It also synergizes well with a sliding table, making the combp significantly cheaper than having it a standalone tool. I expect to use it as a router half of the time, and to mill end grain joints — most of the other half.
Second, I am seriously considering a short stroke. Cross-cutting a baltic birch sheet is the largest job I see myself doing, so a 1550mm table should be enough. For long boards, there's the rip fence and from what I understand, a shorter table actually makes it easier to access. This goes against my natural "more is better" instinct so I would appreciate pointing out if I am about to make an expensive mistake.
With that in mind, I have narrowed my Felder options to KF500 and KF700. The more expensive option is in the consideration mainly because of the DROs available for tilt and rip fence. Is it really worth the 40% higher cost? (For that matter, might I be equally happy with a Hammer option?) I am considering a belt-driven scoring blade and a dado option no matter the model I end up with.
Sorry for the long form. Please roast my selection and thought process. Any feedback is highly appreciated.
Cheers,
Stan
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Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Congratulations. I started with KF700 and 2m slider. You will love it. Shaper is an amazing tool and full of possibilities.
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On Apr 8, 2025, at 11:57?PM, Stan K via groups.io <4279427@...> wrote: ? A little update to wrap this thread up.
After deciding to go with a short stroke B3 I have discovered that a custom order would not be ready until October. That was not ideal for two reasons. One, I expected tariff situation to be uncertain for some time and two, I am kicking off a kitchen remodeling project and having a format saw would be quite useful.
The only B3s that are regularly stocked stateside are of the Comfort spec, with a 6' 8" slider and 1250 rip table to boot. Not a lot of choice but to rearrange the whole shop around the slider, something I really hoped to avoid. Still, after a few late nights a layout emerged that just about worked. And right about when I was ready to put the deposit, the stock B3 that was scheduled to arrive in April went to another buyer, pushing me out into June in the earliest.
Feeling a bit miffed, I started looking for alternatives and stumbled upon a canceled KF700 delivery. That one was even bigger with a 9' slider and 1500 outrigger, but by this time I had a shop layout that could conceivably accommodate one. I took the plunge and expect the machine to arrive before end of month.
That's if I figure out how to get it off the truck. Anyone willing to teach me how to use a forklift? :)
Thanks again for helping me figure this out. Glad to become a part of such a patient and welcoming community.
Stan
On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 16:03, Stan K < 4279427@...> wrote:
Hello, you excellent people,
First time to the group, looking to take the plunge on (relatively) big iron ownership, hoping to run my selection process by you and hopefully reined in if it gets too crazy.
I am a hobbyist woodworker, averaging few hours a week in my two-car-garage-turned-shop. While I used Unisaws and Sawstops in the past, I never bought a table saw for myself, making do with a bandsaw, track saw, lately a miter saw and a peculiar contraption that goes by the name Shopsmith. After ten years in this mode, I just about had it. Sliding table has been on my mind for some time, though I never used one. Long story short, over several months I persuaded myself that I need one in my life.
Most of the work I do is with solid wood, though a recent remodel forced me to deal with cabinetry. Generally, while having a capability to work with sheet goods is appreciated, this is not where I see spending the majority of my time.
Given that I do not have a big space, I made a couple optimization decisions. First, I'd like a saw-shaper combo. While I never used a shaper before, I can see the usefulness of the tool. It also synergizes well with a sliding table, making the combp significantly cheaper than having it a standalone tool. I expect to use it as a router half of the time, and to mill end grain joints — most of the other half.
Second, I am seriously considering a short stroke. Cross-cutting a baltic birch sheet is the largest job I see myself doing, so a 1550mm table should be enough. For long boards, there's the rip fence and from what I understand, a shorter table actually makes it easier to access. This goes against my natural "more is better" instinct so I would appreciate pointing out if I am about to make an expensive mistake.
With that in mind, I have narrowed my Felder options to KF500 and KF700. The more expensive option is in the consideration mainly because of the DROs available for tilt and rip fence. Is it really worth the 40% higher cost? (For that matter, might I be equally happy with a Hammer option?) I am considering a belt-driven scoring blade and a dado option no matter the model I end up with.
Sorry for the long form. Please roast my selection and thought process. Any feedback is highly appreciated.
Cheers,
Stan
<publicKey - 4279427@... - 0xCAA04E5D.asc> <signature.asc>
|
Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
A little update to wrap this thread up.
After deciding to go with a short stroke B3 I have discovered that a custom order would not be ready until October. That was not ideal for two reasons. One, I expected tariff situation to be uncertain for some time and two, I am kicking off a kitchen remodeling project and having a format saw would be quite useful.
The only B3s that are regularly stocked stateside are of the Comfort spec, with a 6' 8" slider and 1250 rip table to boot. Not a lot of choice but to rearrange the whole shop around the slider, something I really hoped to avoid. Still, after a few late nights a layout emerged that just about worked. And right about when I was ready to put the deposit, the stock B3 that was scheduled to arrive in April went to another buyer, pushing me out into June in the earliest.
Feeling a bit miffed, I started looking for alternatives and stumbled upon a canceled KF700 delivery. That one was even bigger with a 9' slider and 1500 outrigger, but by this time I had a shop layout that could conceivably accommodate one. I took the plunge and expect the machine to arrive before end of month.
That's if I figure out how to get it off the truck. Anyone willing to teach me how to use a forklift? :)
Thanks again for helping me figure this out. Glad to become a part of such a patient and welcoming community.
Stan
On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 16:03, Stan K < 4279427@...> wrote:
Hello, you excellent people,
First time to the group, looking to take the plunge on (relatively) big iron ownership, hoping to run my selection process by you and hopefully reined in if it gets too crazy.
I am a hobbyist woodworker, averaging few hours a week in my two-car-garage-turned-shop. While I used Unisaws and Sawstops in the past, I never bought a table saw for myself, making do with a bandsaw, track saw, lately a miter saw and a peculiar contraption that goes by the name Shopsmith. After ten years in this mode, I just about had it. Sliding table has been on my mind for some time, though I never used one. Long story short, over several months I persuaded myself that I need one in my life.
Most of the work I do is with solid wood, though a recent remodel forced me to deal with cabinetry. Generally, while having a capability to work with sheet goods is appreciated, this is not where I see spending the majority of my time.
Given that I do not have a big space, I made a couple optimization decisions. First, I'd like a saw-shaper combo. While I never used a shaper before, I can see the usefulness of the tool. It also synergizes well with a sliding table, making the combp significantly cheaper than having it a standalone tool. I expect to use it as a router half of the time, and to mill end grain joints — most of the other half.
Second, I am seriously considering a short stroke. Cross-cutting a baltic birch sheet is the largest job I see myself doing, so a 1550mm table should be enough. For long boards, there's the rip fence and from what I understand, a shorter table actually makes it easier to access. This goes against my natural "more is better" instinct so I would appreciate pointing out if I am about to make an expensive mistake.
With that in mind, I have narrowed my Felder options to KF500 and KF700. The more expensive option is in the consideration mainly because of the DROs available for tilt and rip fence. Is it really worth the 40% higher cost? (For that matter, might I be equally happy with a Hammer option?) I am considering a belt-driven scoring blade and a dado option no matter the model I end up with.
Sorry for the long form. Please roast my selection and thought process. Any feedback is highly appreciated.
Cheers,
Stan
|
Re: Barth Multipress RP3001 with clamps and casework supports [Seattle area]
Joel,
?
You’re a much wiser and smarter man than I am :-). I sold the 500V and then regretted it and recently bought its replacement Vakuusyst-S. ?Just to be clear, it’s also quite amazing and I’m really glad I got it (if super expensive). ?And I agree that it might just be a matter of perspective and what you use it for. ?I actually really like the mobile aspect as it gives me more options in the workshop. ?The older one had a much heavier scissor mechanism and a heavier duty hydraulic pump. ?I also prefer the older style foot pedal on the end vs the newer version on the sides - I find it very awkward when pumping it to lift the table, I keep hitting against the frame. ?I’m also missing the nice feature they had in the old model where you can push down on a lever (?) to lift the table off the wheels to “ground” it to the floor, making it even more rock solid (I think David Best posted an image of it once, I don’t have it any more).
?
I also have a traditional style workbench (if you can call a split top Ruobo, traditional), so I certainly get the value of having a dedicated workbench. ?However, the height adjustability of the Barth ability can be amazing - since different heights are better suited for different operations like hand planing, chopping dovetails, paring, cross cutting vs ripping, chopping mortises etc. ?Barth can shine there esp once you make it very stable. ?I’m finding that I have less tolerance for bending down for some of these operations these days :-)
?
BTW, I sent you a PM visa the groups message mechanism, but I would be interested in your clamps from the press as I think I can use it on my table - I got the version with perforated HPL top with 22mm holes and as such am limited in clamping options.
?
regards
Anil
?
?
?
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I would just go with alarm. Shutting blower mid planning will make a mess.
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On Apr 8, 2025, at 8:21?PM, ibsenafshar via groups.io <brian@...> wrote: ? When I automated my dust collector I put a sensor in the circuit that shuts off the blower and sets off a tone, it is at the wirenut level of technology. Everywhere at $60 and sometimes $45. Now I just need to build the barrel.
Just another option if you're into this sort of thing.
?
?
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Rip fence. Thanks for the clarification.?
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When I automated my dust collector I put a sensor in the circuit that shuts off the blower and sets off a tone, it is at the wirenut level of technology. Everywhere at $60 and sometimes $45. Now I just need to build the barrel.
Just another option if you're into this sort of thing.
?
?
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I have a format ?4 fence with micro adjustment, the rip fence and 50 mm bar if you’re interested contact me off the fog Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Apr 8, 2025, at 5:07?PM, imran via groups.io <imranwoodshop@...> wrote:
? May want to clarify, Rip or Xcut?
On Apr 8, 2025, at 6:01?PM, mrjeppson via groups.io <mrjeppson@...> wrote:
? I am looking for both a BF6 fence and a 700s fence. Used or aftermarket. ?All suggestions welcome! ?Many thanks. ?Rhett Jeppson
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May want to clarify, Rip or Xcut?
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On Apr 8, 2025, at 6:01?PM, mrjeppson via groups.io <mrjeppson@...> wrote: ? I am looking for both a BF6 fence and a 700s fence. Used or aftermarket. ?All suggestions welcome! ?Many thanks. ?Rhett Jeppson
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I am looking for both a BF6 fence and a 700s fence. Used or aftermarket. ?All suggestions welcome! ?Many thanks. ?Rhett Jeppson
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Re: Slider alignment question
The suction idea is very interesting. I can experiment with that. I will also do other checks on the alignment.
?
This version of the saw does not have a typical throat plate. I believe this is due to the PCS system.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Slider alignment question
In addition to David’s thorough response, I’m just confirming that when you perform through cuts you have your saw blade raised enough so that only a minimum of teeth is engaged in the material being cut? David mentioned a blade raised 40mm for
a 3/4” plywood test cut. That’s about right. I run my blades at 40-50mm permanently for 20-25mm material and even higher for thicker stock. I find small offcuts engage with the teeth and “grab” if the blade is adjusted too low.
Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer?
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
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It could be that the suction of your overhead guard is pulling the off-cut upward and into the blade. ?Or it could be that the throat plate supplied by Felder does not have tight tolerance to the blade, and the off-cut
being so small starts to lean over into the blade. ?Both of these situations can cause a small off-cut to get caught by the back of the blade and thrown forward. ?I had this problem on my Kappa 400 and it was all related to the throat plate, so I designed
a replacement ZCI throat plate, installed that, and the problem stopped. ?The OEM throat plate on these machines is typically angled on the right to accommodate a tilted saw blade, and that angled section would encourage small off-cuts to tilt over and into
the blade causing a kickback. ?You can see my ZCI effort?. ?I believe someone else here on FOG makes a 3D printed version of something very similar to my design
for the Kappa 450.
If you want to further check toe-out on your slider, I describe two methods in my YouTube video - the link below takes you directly to the section on toe-out:
Another test would be as follows.
- Put on a crosscut blade and elevate it to about 40mm exposure above the cast iron top.
- Take a piece of 3/4” material like hardwood or high quality MDF that is 12” or so wide and 18” or so long.
- Securely clamp the material to the slider with the off-cut end (right side of blade) extending over the cast iron top by about 4”.
- Start a crosscut operation by pushing the slider forward slowly to complete the crosscut operation.
- Inspect the off-cut for any evidence of burning or recutting of the material by the back of the blade. ?A burnt edge is a sign of too much toe-out on the slider.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Apr 8, 2025, at 1:04?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
David, I am not getting burn marks on the off-cuts. I am using a SilentPower 30-tooth Universal blade (model 03.02.35030). I am using a roving knife, and I believe I have it installed correctly.
?
Thanks!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Slider alignment question
It could be that the suction of your overhead guard is pulling the off-cut upward and into the blade. ?Or it could be that the throat plate supplied by Felder does not have tight tolerance to the blade, and the off-cut being so small starts to lean over into the blade. ?Both of these situations can cause a small off-cut to get caught by the back of the blade and thrown forward. ?I had this problem on my Kappa 400 and it was all related to the throat plate, so I designed a replacement ZCI throat plate, installed that, and the problem stopped. ?The OEM throat plate on these machines is typically angled on the right to accommodate a tilted saw blade, and that angled section would encourage small off-cuts to tilt over and into the blade causing a kickback. ?You can see my ZCI effort?. ?I believe someone else here on FOG makes a 3D printed version of something very similar to my design for the Kappa 450.
If you want to further check toe-out on your slider, I describe two methods in my YouTube video - the link below takes you directly to the section on toe-out:
Another test would be as follows.
- Put on a crosscut blade and elevate it to about 40mm exposure above the cast iron top.
- Take a piece of 3/4” material like hardwood or high quality MDF that is 12” or so wide and 18” or so long.
- Securely clamp the material to the slider with the off-cut end (right side of blade) extending over the cast iron top by about 4”.
- Start a crosscut operation by pushing the slider forward slowly to complete the crosscut operation.
- Inspect the off-cut for any evidence of burning or recutting of the material by the back of the blade. ?A burnt edge is a sign of too much toe-out on the slider.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Apr 8, 2025, at 1:04?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
David, I am not getting burn marks on the off-cuts. I am using a SilentPower 30-tooth Universal blade (model 03.02.35030). I am using a roving knife, and I believe I have it installed correctly.
?
Thanks!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Re: Slider alignment question
David, I am not getting burn marks on the off-cuts. I am using a SilentPower 30-tooth Universal blade (model 03.02.35030). I am using a roving knife, and I believe I have it installed correctly.
?
Thanks!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Re: Slider alignment question
Do you get burning on the off-cut side (to the right of the blade) if the material is clamped down to the slider? ?What blade are you using and do you have a rivving knife installed and properly adjusted? David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Apr 8, 2025, at 11:09?AM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
? I am about to re-check the alignment of the slider on my saw. I thought I had it pretty well tuned up, following the David Best videos, but am seeing some unexpected behavior.
Small offcuts tend to fling back toward the front of the saw. If I trim 1/8” off the end of a piece, for instance, the off cut will often fly clear off the saw.
?
Does this behavior give me some clues as to the slider alignment? Is it telling me I have too little toe-out, or maybe too much? I’m not burning the off-cut.
?
Thanks for any advice!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Slider alignment question
I am about to re-check the alignment of the slider on my saw. I thought I had it pretty well tuned up, following the David Best videos, but am seeing some unexpected behavior.
Small offcuts tend to fling back toward the front of the saw. If I trim 1/8” off the end of a piece, for instance, the off cut will often fly clear off the saw.
?
Does this behavior give me some clues as to the slider alignment? Is it telling me I have too little toe-out, or maybe too much? I’m not burning the off-cut.
?
Thanks for any advice!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
It appears to be the same technology as used in my Oneida device. Price point is similar.
?
The issue I have had with mine is failure to keep the sensor clean. Other than that I have been happy with mine, and suspect you would be happy with the Grit device.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Barth Multipress RP3001 with clamps and casework supports [Seattle area]
As for the 500V, I have the older version and a good friend has the newer version. ?I think having some experience working with my Barth 500V motivated him to get one. ?He likes his better. ?This is because the foot operated lift works way easier on his (located in the middle where mine is located on one end). ?I do think the older one may be sturdier-heavier, which I guess is a negative if you move it around and a positive if you want stationary. ?I do not think they are all that different.
?
I personally think that if you really want to do certain things on a rock solid bench, that is what a very well built traditional workbench is for. ?I never thought about selling my Barth bench. ?I did once think I would sell my traditional workbench. ?I changed my mind, and spent some time refinishing the top and adding a few clamping accessories and looking back, if I sold it, ?I surely would have regretted selling it, big time, especially as I am now devoting more time to using hand tools. ?
?
?
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Does anyone have any experience with this product? ?I know Alex Boulds had mentioned the product was in development a year or so ago, but I haven't been able to find any reviews online. ?I'm considering adding the Grit system to my shop and the dust bin alternatives are either poorly reviewed (Clearvue or Oneida) or expensive (roto type indicators).
Thanks in advance to anyone who can share their experience.
Fred?
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Hi Karl,
Thanks for the suggestion, I might just do that. ?Fortunately, we are in no hurry….
$500 bucks could by a lot of Gin & Tonics!
?
Cheers,
?
Mike
M.E. Blake General Contractors?
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imran
David Luckensmeyer
David P. Best