Re: feedback on embedded router in table
Hi David,
This thread reminded me that I have one of these millions that you produced. Used once and then I got router spindle. I need to find it and put it up for sale.
I did mention it to Bob in a private conversation but he had already ordered the router lift.
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On Feb 10, 2024, at 12:55?AM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote: ? Bob, have you seen the attached? ?It¡¯s been in the archives for 20+ years. ?I sold millions of ¡®em. ?LOL. Today, I would use a cordless router.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Feb 8, 2024, at 2:32?PM, Bob Wise <bob@...> wrote:
I have a nice extension table attached to my k700s. I have the perfect place to drop?a router lift into it. It's melamine/mdf top.? I have a shaper but am finding?I have a need for a router table from time to?time.??
I can either cut out the top and drop the lift into the table, OR I could cut out a bigger piece and drop in a router table top that is set up for the fence as well.?
Any of you faced with this choice, and what did you do? s
<Router Adapter System for Felder KF F700.pdf>
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Re: feedback on embedded router in table
Bob, have you seen the attached? ?It¡¯s been in the archives for 20+ years. ?I sold millions of ¡®em. ?LOL. Today, I would use a cordless router.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Feb 8, 2024, at 2:32?PM, Bob Wise <bob@...> wrote:
I have a nice extension table attached to my k700s. I have the perfect place to drop?a router lift into it. It's melamine/mdf top.? I have a shaper but am finding?I have a need for a router table from time to?time.??
I can either cut out the top and drop the lift into the table, OR I could cut out a bigger piece and drop in a router table top that is set up for the fence as well.?
Any of you faced with this choice, and what did you do? s
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Re: feedback on embedded router in table
Bob, I have posted router-table-in-slider pics before, so this is for those who have not seen them. Note that my machine is a short stop (1250mm) Hammer K3, and there are differences in the respective designs. Nevertheless, there may be some ideas here for you. The router table lies in a panel added to the outfeed. This is made from an off-cut from a kitchen bench. This is compressed (hard) and waterproof (no movement or expansion).? This is the space available ...  And this is the build ..  Originally the fence (which I built) ran in its own track. Later I connected it to the rip fence, where it takes advantage of the micro adjuster and digital gauge ...  The fence just sides on-and-off as needed. There is dust collection from both below- and above the table ...   The hose comes from Festool ...  The other useful item is a flip-up Wixey digital depth gauge. This is on the left front of the table ...   When not in use, the router table fence hangs above the slider ...  Details of the build are here:?? Hope this helps. Regards from Perth Derek
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Re: Felder K700S (and others) Wenge Zero Clearance Inserts
?¡°And if you just want to shave half a blade thickness off an edge to clean things up, shit's gonna go everywhere.¡± No support on either side of the blade? Is not good for the blade. Best mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 9, 2024, at 11:10?AM, Jonathan Smith <jonathan.smith@...> wrote:
?I am confused by the air slot feature.? The work piece being cut has effectively zero clearance and air flow is limited by the kerf in the piece and by the tooth gullet carrying waste.? Saw teeth kind of pump air and waste down into the dust collection below the table.? The only dust above the work piece is brought there by the blade gullet rotating back up thru the piece which did not completely clear.? Adding air slots would would not open air flow and only diminish support by otherwise zero clearance making the insert less effective at preventing tear out.?
Of course, this is only true in general terms.? More dust will be produced as more blade is exposed above the work.? And if you just want to shave half a blade thickness off an edge to clean things up, shit's gonna go everywhere.
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I know that Jaon Bents () was at Felder recently to shot a calibration video for the Hammer K3/A3
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Hi Tom,
Thanks! That actually is helpful. Apparently I was trying to adjust the height by adjusting both sides of the outfeed bed instead of just getting it level front to back, and THEN adjusting the height to where it needs to be. Hopefully I can get it level first, then adjust the height.?
I feel a little dumb for not figuring that out, but love and learn! Thank you!
Best, Ryan
On Fri, Feb 9, 2024, 6:06?AM Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: Hi Ryan,?
?Congrats on the new-to-you machine. I haven't needed to tune my A3-41, but I did see that Felder has a series of YouTube videos showing how to adjust their Hammer jointer/planer combo machines, I wonder if they might be helpful??
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Felder K700S (and others) Wenge Zero Clearance Inserts
I am confused by the air slot feature.? The work piece being cut has effectively zero clearance and air flow is limited by the kerf in the piece and by the tooth gullet carrying waste.? Saw teeth kind of pump air and waste down into the dust collection below the table.? The only dust above the work piece is brought there by the blade gullet rotating back up thru the piece which did not completely clear.? Adding air slots would would not open air flow and only diminish support by otherwise zero clearance making the insert less effective at preventing tear out.?
Of course, this is only true in general terms.? More dust will be produced as more blade is exposed above the work.? And if you just want to shave half a blade thickness off an edge to clean things up, shit's gonna go everywhere.
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Hi Ryan,?
?Congrats on the new-to-you machine. I haven't needed to tune my A3-41, but I did see that Felder has a series of YouTube videos showing how to adjust their Hammer jointer/planer combo machines, I wonder if they might be helpful??
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Hi everyone,
I got a used Hammer A3 31 Jointer/planer combination machine. It was in great condition but the infeed and outfeed beds got out of alignment in transit and now I can't seem to get them calibrated...?
I'm in Seattle, WA. If anyone has experience calibrating these machines, or knows someone who does near me, I would love some help! I am willing to pay for some help, but Felder quoted me ~$3,300 to send someone to calibrate the machine, which is almost the cost of a new unit so that option is out.?
Thanks!!
Best, Ryan
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Re: Felder K700S (and others) Wenge Zero Clearance Inserts
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Re: Felder K700S (and others) Wenge Zero Clearance Inserts
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Hi David, Brian,
your feedback is very valuable. I understand the use cases of the longer xcut fence.
I think my usage will be the same as Brian, and a story stick with a fixed length together with the main DRO will probably be enough for the rare case where I'll need the 0.1mm accuracy .
The extra weight and the need to disassemble the extension (and store it somewhere) when using the mobility cart, makes it more annoying than the added functionality (not forgetting the extra $1000 it costs) makes my decision easy.
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Hi Brian:
?
Ha! So easy. You are absolutely right and assuming he does not need it all the time, you just answered Netanel¡¯s question. Thanks for sharing Brian.
?
?
Hi David,
I see your point for long parts with multiple features like you describe. I will say however, that given the extension on my rip fence gets extended once or twice a year if that, that it would be easy to use
a ¡°calibrated¡± stick to offset the flip stop on the extension using the high accuracy of the DRO flip stop (Felder¡¯s DRO or our¡¯s) on the main portion of the fence. This is especially true if you only would use it infrequently.
For example, a stick one meter, minus the width of the flip stop blade¡ you could set the DRO on the main portion of the fence at 1.5m, place the stick between the two stops and now your extended stop is at
2.5m.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Feb 8, 2024, at 2:23?PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
You¡¯ve received some excellent responses so far. I think they are all valid and I especially like the suggestion that you need to weigh up the pros and cons of the option. Like the weight and size and cost,
versus ¡°just how often will you actually use it¡±.
For me, and I don¡¯t think this has been addressed directly yet, the extension DRO has been invaluable not for very accurate crosscuts of long stock (for sure, it does that), but for the making of joinery in
long stock.
Because my saw (Kappa 400) has DRO on both sides of the blade, I can make extremely accurate and repeatable joints in long stock. By ¡°joints¡± I mean mostly trenches and lap joints. Sometimes said joinery cannot
be made with a dado blade to establish a fixed width, e.g. trenches that are wider than 20mm, or lap joints which are deeper than a typical dado can cut.
-
Making a 2800mm library ladder out of solid timber.
-
Making large scale bookcases using trenches, sliding dovetails, lap joints, etc.
I have done many such projects. Instead of templates and routers which are very time consuming for one-off projects, I have been able to use the slider¡¯s DROs on both sides of my blade to make very accurate
joints.
The above commentary does not negate anything said by other posters. Yes the cross cut fence is heavy. But I don¡¯t mind taking it off the outrigger and putting it aside, and then using the cart to remove the
outrigger itself.
But I definitely use the extension DRO. And would miss it very much if I moved to a saw that did not have it.
For people who have Felder¡¯s DRO on the extension of the xcut fence.
Do you find it useful??
?
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Re: Felder K700S (and others) Wenge Zero Clearance Inserts
Same. Especially because this happened today ??¡á?
Steve
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Re: feedback on embedded router in table
Bob, that sounds like a good option - router table function "added" with no additional floor space used. I, too, find that a useful addition and have stopped using my high- speed shaper spindle. I also have a K700S, and in addition, an old Powermatic cabinet saw which is mostly dedicated to dadoing. Before I got the slider, the Powermatic had big steel rails and a large extension table which was no longer needed once the slider arrived. So I bought a cast iron router table to bolt onto the Powermatic's?cast iron wing, and cut down the rails to fit that new combo. The Powermatic's?wing was not precisely machined on its outer edge, so I had a machine shop mill the wing's outer edge to a precise 90 degrees, drilled the new holes with the tables clamped into alignment and installed the lift. It works great. Installing a designed- to- the- function dust collector underneath was well worth it; with that and a Woodpecker router fence, no dust to speak of gets free. Your installation sounds a lot easier! Good luck with it. Eric
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feedback on embedded router in table
I have a nice extension table attached to my k700s. I have the perfect place to drop?a router lift into it. It's melamine/mdf top.? I have a shaper but am finding?I have a need for a router table from time to?time.??
I can either cut out the top and drop the lift into the table, OR I could cut out a bigger piece and drop in a router table top that is set up for the fence as well.?
Any of you faced with this choice, and what did you do?
-Bob
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Hi David,
I see your point for long parts with multiple features like you describe. I will say however, that given the extension on my rip fence gets extended once or twice a year if that, that it would be easy to use a ¡°calibrated¡± stick to offset the flip stop on the extension using the high accuracy of the DRO flip stop (Felder¡¯s DRO or our¡¯s) on the main portion of the fence. This is especially true if you only would use it infrequently.
For example, a stick one meter, minus the width of the flip stop blade¡ you could set the DRO on the main portion of the fence at 1.5m, place the stick between the two stops and now your extended stop is at 2.5m.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Feb 8, 2024, at 2:23?PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Netanel: ? You¡¯ve received some excellent responses so far. I think they are all valid and I especially like the suggestion that you need to weigh up the pros and cons of the option. Like the weight and size and cost, versus ¡°just how often will you actually use it¡±. ? For me, and I don¡¯t think this has been addressed directly yet, the extension DRO has been invaluable not for very accurate crosscuts of long stock (for sure, it does that), but for the making of joinery in long stock. ? Because my saw (Kappa 400) has DRO on both sides of the blade, I can make extremely accurate and repeatable joints in long stock. By ¡°joints¡± I mean mostly trenches and lap joints. Sometimes said joinery cannot be made with a dado blade to establish a fixed width, e.g. trenches that are wider than 20mm, or lap joints which are deeper than a typical dado can cut. ? Real world examples: - Making a 2800mm library ladder out of solid timber.
- Making large scale bookcases using trenches, sliding dovetails, lap joints, etc.
? I have done many such projects. Instead of templates and routers which are very time consuming for one-off projects, I have been able to use the slider¡¯s DROs on both sides of my blade to make very accurate joints. ? The above commentary does not negate anything said by other posters. Yes the cross cut fence is heavy. But I don¡¯t mind taking it off the outrigger and putting it aside, and then using the cart to remove the outrigger itself. ? But I definitely use the extension DRO. And would miss it very much if I moved to a saw that did not have it. ? ? For people who have Felder¡¯s DRO on the extension of the xcut fence.
Do you find it useful??
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Hi Netanel:
?
You¡¯ve received some excellent responses so far. I think they are all valid and I especially like the suggestion that you need to weigh up the pros and cons of the option. Like the weight and size and cost,
versus ¡°just how often will you actually use it¡±.
?
For me, and I don¡¯t think this has been addressed directly yet, the extension DRO has been invaluable not for very accurate crosscuts of long stock (for sure, it does that), but for the making of joinery in
long stock.
?
Because my saw (Kappa 400) has DRO on both sides of the blade, I can make extremely accurate and repeatable joints in long stock. By ¡°joints¡± I mean mostly trenches and lap joints. Sometimes said joinery cannot
be made with a dado blade to establish a fixed width, e.g. trenches that are wider than 20mm, or lap joints which are deeper than a typical dado can cut.
?
Real world examples:
- Making a 2800mm library ladder out of solid timber.
- Making large scale bookcases using trenches, sliding dovetails, lap joints, etc.
?
I have done many such projects. Instead of templates and routers which are very time consuming for one-off projects, I have been able to use the slider¡¯s DROs on both sides of my blade to make very accurate
joints.
?
The above commentary does not negate anything said by other posters. Yes the cross cut fence is heavy. But I don¡¯t mind taking it off the outrigger and putting it aside, and then using the cart to remove the
outrigger itself.
?
But I definitely use the extension DRO. And would miss it very much if I moved to a saw that did not have it.
?
?
For people who have Felder¡¯s DRO on the extension of the xcut fence.
Do you find it useful?
|
And another configuration change. I decided to splurge on the K2 power drive?
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My take:
the ability to make repeatable cuts without the need to make spare parts.
I sometimes moving back and forth from configurations, so it is nice to be able to repeat it.
The measurement line on the crosscut fence is a thick line, and depends from which angle you are looking at. It can be 1-2mm off different depending on the angle.
It obviously not a must and you can obviously get along without it. But for me it looks nice to have and if I am already buy this one, I prefer to buy once cry once (after getting a K3 with some disadvantages I didn¡¯t like)
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imran
David P. Best
Jonathan Smith
Tom Gensmer
David Luckensmeyer