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Re: The Wood Whisperer's first Felder toy

 

??? I wonder if these youtube guys maybe can't get too far ahead of their audience?? I mean most of their viewers might not have the means, or connections to get sliders and high end tools. Having said that, I would still love to see Matthais Wandel make a wooden sliding table saw. Tom Ruth
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?

 

Tom,
? That's my thought as well.? My perspective is that I'll be buying a wide belt sander when I retire and set up my retirement shop and will be looking to replace my RL-160.? Trying to do the research now to know which dust collector to buy.
Dave Davies

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 9:13 AM <tom@...> wrote:
Dave,

I suspect that the 0.1mg/m3 standard is the European equivalent to our HEPA standard in North America, thus the consolidation of machines to that standard. Pure conjecture on my part though¡­..?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN



--
Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?

 

Dave,

I suspect that the 0.1mg/m3 standard is the European equivalent to our HEPA standard in North America, thus the consolidation of machines to that standard. Pure conjecture on my part though¡­..?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?

 

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Dave,

If I understand correctly you are talking about the pleated filter in a cylindrical form where pleats are tighter on the inside than the outside.

Again correct me if wrong, this aspect should not affect most of us using pleated filters in RL dust collectors.

Just throwing it out in case some readers get concerned or draw conclusions that are not relevant to their collectors.

Imran Malik

On Dec 7, 2022, at 9:41 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:

?
I've no dog in this fight but a couple of things to remember.? The bags listed are Beane bags.? Those are good bags and allow for a less surface area needed than some others.? There are other bags with higher small particle efficiency.? ?They sometimes need to be oversized to compensate for the tight weave needed to trap the small stuff.? Whether a filter is HEPA, MERV 14 or 15, or something else is less important in my world than how easily it can be cleaned and how much cfm it will pass at a given pressure.? The air from the bags isn't as likely to kill your lungs as is the envelope of dust that doesn't make it to the collector fast enough to avoid you breathing some of it.? A filter that slowly becomes plugged enough to reduce the cfm at the machine is something you don't notice until you cough.? Cartridges are used for fine dust but most were originally designed as outside to inside.? The dust is trapped outside the filter where the pleats are spread and blown from the inside to release the dust and drop it down or shaken to do the same thing.? The inside to outside filters used often now are more problematic but the collector is less expensive to produce.

Lots to consider but don't forget that minimizing that dust envelope around the machine when the filters are seasoned but not clean is very important.? If you set a Dylos air monitor close to a machine when you run it you will be shocked at how quickly the numbers go from 50 to-several thousand.??

Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of jbowen@... <jbowen@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2022 9:21 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] One dust collector to rule them all?
?
I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.

Filtration curve attached.


Jay Bowen
Cleveland

Re: Felder bf6-31 table top alignment?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Adam?
These are broad brush strokes!
The start reference point on your unit is the cutterhead. That needs to be 8/10 of mm below lip of table side to side . +-1/10 mm
Than adjust the infeed table co plane with out feed hinge side first .
Worry about knives latter?
Know you can adjust saw table?
Than slider and shaper,
All the moving will through it out of wack .
Mac,,,
?

martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell

Designing and building for 50 years


On Dec 7, 2022, at 7:15 AM, Adam Killion <akillion84@...> wrote:

?Thanks Greg,
I was hoping to avoid moving the jointer outfeed table but at this point it looks like that might be the way I need to go. I ended up need to move the saw table a little because the dovetail ways were not parallel with each other. Looks like it will be a little while till I can use this machine. If anyone else has any thoughts I am all ears.
Thanks again?

Re: One dust collector to rule them all?

 

Interesting that Felder's and ALKO's numbers are exactly the same... ?Felder 0.1mg/m3....I suspect this is a European standard for a dust collector to be certified as? a "clean" collector.
Dave Davies

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 8:39 AM imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Jay,

The Nederman efficiency chart you attached states 1mg/m3 vs Felder 0.1mg/m3.

Imran Malik

On Dec 7, 2022, at 9:22 AM, jbowen@... wrote:

?I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.

Filtration curve attached.


Jay Bowen
Cleveland



--
Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I've no dog in this fight but a couple of things to remember.? The bags listed are Beane bags.? Those are good bags and allow for a less surface area needed than some others.? There are other bags with higher small particle efficiency.? ?They sometimes need to be oversized to compensate for the tight weave needed to trap the small stuff.? Whether a filter is HEPA, MERV 14 or 15, or something else is less important in my world than how easily it can be cleaned and how much cfm it will pass at a given pressure.? The air from the bags isn't as likely to kill your lungs as is the envelope of dust that doesn't make it to the collector fast enough to avoid you breathing some of it.? A filter that slowly becomes plugged enough to reduce the cfm at the machine is something you don't notice until you cough.? Cartridges are used for fine dust but most were originally designed as outside to inside.? The dust is trapped outside the filter where the pleats are spread and blown from the inside to release the dust and drop it down or shaken to do the same thing.? The inside to outside filters used often now are more problematic but the collector is less expensive to produce.

Lots to consider but don't forget that minimizing that dust envelope around the machine when the filters are seasoned but not clean is very important.? If you set a Dylos air monitor close to a machine when you run it you will be shocked at how quickly the numbers go from 50 to-several thousand.??

Dave

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of jbowen@... <jbowen@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2022 9:21 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] One dust collector to rule them all?
?
I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.

Filtration curve attached.


Jay Bowen
Cleveland

Re: One dust collector to rule them all?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Jay,

The Nederman efficiency chart you attached states 1mg/m3 vs Felder 0.1mg/m3.

Imran Malik

On Dec 7, 2022, at 9:22 AM, jbowen@... wrote:

?I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.

Filtration curve attached.


Jay Bowen
Cleveland

nederman.pdf
nederman.pdf
S-Series Brochure Rev.1 0822.pdf
S-Series Brochure Rev.1 0822.pdf
nederman filter rating.pdf
nederman filter rating.pdf

Re: One dust collector to rule them all?

 


Just looked at the ALKO on Martin's site.? They don't mention particle size :

Air recirculation into the room is a crucial factor in the?clean air sector. This feed air is tilted by AL-KO extraction systems?down to below 0.1 mg/m3 residual dust content.

Dave Davies

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 8:21 AM <jbowen@...> wrote:
I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.

Filtration curve attached.


Jay Bowen
Cleveland



--
Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?

 

I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.

Filtration curve attached.


Jay Bowen
Cleveland

nederman.pdf
nederman.pdf
S-Series Brochure Rev.1 0822.pdf
S-Series Brochure Rev.1 0822.pdf
nederman filter rating.pdf
nederman filter rating.pdf

Re: Opinions on Alpine Workshop?

 

Hi Brandon,?

I'd say that the April "Advanced Joinery" class has broad applicability for just about anyone planning on working in a shop environment, as Joe spends a lot of time on safe work practices. There's a lot of focus on mortise and tenon joinery, but part of that is a demonstration of how to perform the same operation on different machines. So, you'd make one set of tenons on a shaper, another set of tenons with a sliding saw and band saw, etc...?

I'm signed up for the "Tilt and Turn" class in May. While I don't have immediate plans to produce tilt/turn windows, many of the skills/techniques are adjacent to what I'm doing, so there's still a benefit for me to attend. I took the Entry Door class last year, and plan to circle back to it again in a few years. ?

Hope you enjoy a fun and informative time.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
Re: Felder bf6-31 table top alignment?

 

Thanks Greg,
I was hoping to avoid moving the jointer outfeed table but at this point it looks like that might be the way I need to go. I ended up need to move the saw table a little because the dovetail ways were not parallel with each other. Looks like it will be a little while till I can use this machine. If anyone else has any thoughts I am all ears.
Thanks again?
Re: The Wood Whisperer's first Felder toy

 

Hey PK
When I heard Marc reference the Felder group, I immediately thought of Bill B¨¦langer, but it's only a guess!
It is nice to see somebody with a big following on YouTube singing Felder's praises.
Cheers
David
Re: How to achieve this surface finish?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Adam! That video was wonderful. I loved watching the various masters wield each of the tools. Just think how sharp the kanna blade has to be to achieve shavings that fine! Loved it. Thanks for sharing.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of adam_block <adam@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2022 3:58:46 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] How to achieve this surface finish?
?
Thank you, Lucky. That is an excellent lead. The surface does indeed seem to have been created with either a chouna (Japanese adze) or a related tool. (Note that the photos are all of the same door, just taken from different distances.)

Based on your prompt I found this that shows the various Japanese milling techniques and the associated tools.?

Now I just need to find someone locally who can produce this effect on a thousand sf of paneling... ???¡á?

/afb

Re: How to achieve this surface finish?

 

The curved bottom Makita?1002BA planer is also used to create adze-like surfaces.

Here's just a few seconds of a famous Japanese artist who's done some interesting wood finishes:



Here's using it to more directly simulate adze on timber-framed building.

https://youtu.be/slKXdFdSLk4?t=76
Re: How to achieve this surface finish?

 

Thank you, Lucky. That is an excellent lead. The surface does indeed seem to have been created with either a chouna (Japanese adze) or a related tool. (Note that the photos are all of the same door, just taken from different distances.)

Based on your prompt I found this that shows the various Japanese milling techniques and the associated tools.?

Now I just need to find someone locally who can produce this effect on a thousand sf of paneling... ???¡á?

/afb
Re: The Wood Whisperer's first Felder toy

 

I remember when he first posted to the old Festool FOG. "Hey, I'm making some videos, check them out". Man, that was a long time ago. He sure made a lot of progress after that.?
Re: Opinions on Alpine Workshop?

 

Thanks to everyone for the input. I was wondering if people would come back with "if you aren't making windows, don't bother", but it sounds like everyone had had an overwhelmingly positive experience. I'll be signing up for the April class. Anyone else going to meet me there?
Re: Felder bf6-31 table top alignment?

 

If you lift the jointer table up you can see two large bolts where it is fixed to the hinge mechanism. The table has oval slots in that location, so there is room to nudge it back into alignment with the saw chassis. But before you do that it mght be a good idea to take careful measurements from whatever reference surface you can use to ensure the outfeed table remains flat and parallel to the infeed once adjusted.

As it is now there will be an approximately 4¡± zone (at approximately 13¡±+/-) where the rip fence cannot straddle the gap between the tables.
Re: Felder bf6-31 table top alignment?

 

Sorry John Just saw your replies. Not sure about the splitter yet, it seems ok but I have not checked it with anything as I have bigger problems.?
Thanks for all the help/suggestions. Got a few hours over the passed few nights mess with it a little. I squared up my fence to the front of the table and indicated off of that. At 90 was 3 thou wider at the back. At 45 it was off a lot more than that and was tighter at the back. I moved the fence to recheck it tonight after moving the trunnion a bit and found what I think is a bigger problem. The dovetail on the front of the saw top is a heavy 1/16" in front of the jointer planer dovetail. In the picture below the jointer is on the towards the bottom and saw table towards the top. I have not fully checked the jointer calibration yet other than jointing some boards and everything came out straight and square. The previous owner said he had not touched the outfeed of the jointer and judging by the paint/bolts that appears true. It looks like I have a little clearance room between the cutterhead and jointer bed to move it forward but was really hoping not to mess with that. Anyone dealt with this/have suggestions? I drove from NY to PA with this, about 4hrs, I imagine something moved just not sure where to start the check.
Thanks in advance for any help at all,
Adam
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