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Re: 618 milling attachment jaw plates

 

The lathe Altas Craftsman lathe I got recently had the milling ?attachments but no plates. I ordered a set from Clausing. I think it was a decent price, shipping was reasonable and they arrived fairly quickly. Another option if you don’t find them elsewhere. Good luck.?

John

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 5:07 PM Jay Greer <redwitch1@...> wrote:
I did a bad thing the other day. I was cleaning up my bench and dropped the jaw plates for my 618 Atlas lathe milling attachment in the trash bucket and promptly forgot to go for them as soon as I could do so. The phone rang, and someone came to the door to ask a question. I, forgot the plates, until the next day and my clean up wife had thrown the contents of the bucket in the trash that was collected. Now I am in the middle of a job and have not jaw plates. With the virus scare I am not allowed out of my cage so, do any of you have a set you want to sell or duplicate for me?
I have no steel stock on hand to make a set from so can anyone out there help? I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanks
Jay Greer
Boat Design


--
John R. in Virginia Beach
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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For re-mounting the chuck you don’t really have to remember which jaw was where so long as we are talking one of the Atlas lathes because they all have single-start threaded spindles.? I guess that a case could be made that you should start with both the spindle and the chuck always at the same angular position because there is a little clearance between the male and female register areas.? But unless one or both are particularly sloppy, I can’t see it making enough difference to matter.? With the single start thread, the chuck and spindle naturally always end up in the same relative positions.? You should probably do as I generally do and run the chuck onto the threads until the bottom, and then back up about and inch or two and “ring” it home by pushing abruptly on whichever jaw is closest to top with your right thumb.

?

It is of course critical that the three jaws are always mounted in the same slot or on the same master jaw.? The three slots and the three jaws (or six if they are 2-piece) should all be marked by the chuck maker with 1, 2 and 3.? And if you need to remove a part from the chuck before you are finished with it, then you need to make note of where Jaw #1 is or alternatively which number jaw is where and mark the part appropriately so that you can put it back in as it came out.

?

Robert Downs

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of perry7122
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 07:31
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

?

Robert , I haven't been concerned because of the type work I do but was wondering.

? ? Once the chuck is set up with a machined back plate and you have zero runout do you have to mark the plate and spindle to be sure you get to back in the same place when removed and reinstalled? Seem's that differences in tightening would change the location somewhat.

?

I appreciate all you do in running this group.

?

?

?

| Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [wa5cab@...]

_._,_._,_
618 milling attachment jaw plates

 

I did a bad thing the other day. I was cleaning up my bench and dropped the jaw plates for my 618 Atlas lathe milling attachment in the trash bucket and promptly forgot to go for them as soon as I could do so. The phone rang, and someone came to the door to ask a question. I, forgot the plates, until the next day and my clean up wife had thrown the contents of the bucket in the trash that was collected. Now I am in the middle of a job and have not jaw plates. With the virus scare I am not allowed out of my cage so, do any of you have a set you want to sell or duplicate for me?
I have no steel stock on hand to make a set from so can anyone out there help? I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanks
Jay Greer
Boat Design
Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment

 

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Should have added this: Heat longer keeping hardening material present and you’ll have hardness at depth. The hotter and the longer time the deeper and harder the case will be. Be careful with thin parts to avoid hardening through to glass-like hardness/brittleness.

Jim Irwin



On Apr 18, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Jim Irwin via <jimairwin@...> wrote:

This hardening is a diffusion?process. As such the depth is a function of temperature & time. Raise either & it's deeper. Also depends on availability of hardening material. (So time at temp with that present.) Heat to red and apply hardener and case will be hard but shallow. Heat longer and material diffuses into the steel, so softening somewhat.

Hope that's clear.

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 1:52 PM Dave Matticks <dpm100@...> wrote:
It will give a really hard abrasion resistant case but still soft and "deformable" under that .001/.002 surface hardness. Done this before as well.
Water quench will probably give a higher hardness, still not deep though.
Very nice project no matter what!

Dave
On April 18, 2020 at 12:38 PM?exerpd+groupsio@...?wrote:?

Dave Matticks?– I was not able to find a left hand wing nut.? I used Fusion 360 to do the drawings.? Instead I purchased a hand full of right hand wing nuts from McMaster-Karr in the next smaller size.? Then just drilled it out and re-threaded in left hand 3/8”.? The body and jaws are 1018 steel.? I have done some case hardening of small gun parts.? Don’t know whether to case harden just the jaw faces or the whole thing?? It is just a hand vise after all.? May just use some Brownell’s and try the jaws first to see how I like it.? Heat jaw face to cherry red, dip in the case hardening, re-heat to cherry red for a couple of minutes, quench in oil, clean up…………? See what happens.
--?
Bruce Varner

?
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

York Powell
 

My understanding is that Buck Chucks have a sort of 4 jaw type adjustment that would have a positive hold on the position of the chuck. If you are leaving room for movement and expecting the mounting bolts to hold it in place seems very different.
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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McMaster Carr has a big selection of brass screws in different flavors.?
Soft tip as well.

Dave?



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

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-------- Original message --------
From: Jody <jp4lsu@...>
Date: 4/19/20 09:12 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

I agree? that 4 jaw is best in some circumstances.? ?If I ever get around to doing any barrel threading work, the 4 jaw will be the way to go.? Thats one reason I made a lathe spider.? Just need to find some brass fasteners. The big issue there is pass thru diameter.

But for work that doesn't require high accuracy or cocentricity and work that may be removed multiple times, I need a 3 jaw.??

I do one day plan on making a ER32 collect chuck.? GP has a drawing for one .? I also found another real good drawing for one but I cant find it now.? I have the one from GP printed out and ready to go.
Thanks Jody




Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: S Johnson <cascadianroot@...>
Date: 4/18/20 8:19 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

I learned on a lathe with only a 4-jaw. The initial days were madness but now I can dial in a 4-jaw faster than many can select the right collet for their collet chuck. Plus on some work the 4-jaw is the only way.
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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Not the chuck itself, just the mounting.?
Centering is like a 4 jaw with left hand screws.
No problem after you go the wrong way a couple times ;<)

Dave?



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

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-------- Original message --------
From: Andrei <calciu1@...>
Date: 4/19/20 12:10 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

That is how the Buck chuck works

Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of York Powell <yorkus@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 1:05:33 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck
?
I have heard of this method of making an “adjustable” chuck. I guess my concern would be if you do heavy cuts or maybe interrupted cuts that it would be thrown out of adjustment.
What is your experience?

Thanks
York

Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

I had read about a guy doing that on line somewhere , was too
late for the 6" chuck , but I plan to do that with my next chuck

??? ??? animal


On 4/19/2020 9:03 AM, Dallas wrote:
I took a hybrid approach to #2 above.? I bought a? Chinese chuck that
had a recessed step on the back that was about 0.4 inches deep.? I
also bought a plain flat pre-threaded back plate to fit my spindle.? I
turned a matching stub on the back plate that was about 50 thousandths
smaller than the ID of the back plate step that stuck out just under
the 0.4 inch cavity.? In the chuck body, I drilled and tapped 4 holes
(1/4-20tpi)? at 0, 90, 180, & 270 degrees around the chuck periphery
and installed set screws. These 4 screws tighten against the back
plate stub and allow the chuck body to be positioned on the back
plate.? I drilled 3 slightly oversized holes in the back plate to
match the existing mounting holes on the back side of the chuck body.
I installed the chuck to the back plate but did not tighten fully just
snug.? I chucked a piece of drill rod in the chuck and installed the
chuck onto the spindle.? Using the 4 set screws I put the drill rod
exactly on center using an indicator just like you would adjust a 4
jaw chuck.? The chuck bolts were then tightened to lock the back plate
to the chuck.? I later made a similar setup for my Atlas 618 3jaw.? I
discovered after some use the 9in chuck would have slightly different
run out depending on which chuck key tightening hole was use.? I
removed all but one key position and plugged with nylon as can be seen
in last photos.? The first photo is 6in and last two are 9in chucks.

Dallas Shell
Oklahoma
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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On 04/19/2020 10:32 AM, Guenther Paul wrote:
Jon
You will never have 0 run out on a self centering 3 jaw consider the wear. Even the top high priced chucks claim a run out

Isn't that EXACTLY what I said?


On Sunday, April 19, 2020, 11:12:06 AM EDT, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:


On 04/19/2020 07:30 AM, perry7122 wrote:
Robert , I haven't been concerned because of the type work I do but was wondering.
? ? Once the chuck is set up with a machined back plate and you have zero runout do you have to mark the plate and spindle to be sure you get to back in the same place when removed and reinstalled? Seem's that differences in tightening would change the location somewhat.
No.? With the general accuracy and repeatability of a typical 3-jaw chuck, even new, the tiny variations in mounting to the spindle are not going to be detectable.? Anyway, with a threaded spindle, what are
you going to do about repeatable mounting?? It screws on until the collar hits the register, and that is it.
There are no options or adjustments.

Now, on a lathe with a camloc spindle, there are multiple positions to mount it, and there IS a mark to tell you which one is right.? That way, you get repeatable mounting.

Jon
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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??? ??? I think probably the only advantage to buying a used chuck is that if ya get one that might have been original say a 6 "? a older 6" will be much smaller in mass than a new 6" . that's one of the reasons I shaved

??? ??? a bunch off of the threaded part on backplate ( might be called the spigot ? ) to cut down on overhang

??? ??? animal

On 4/19/2020 7:03 AM, Jody wrote:

That looks to be a nice chuck.? Having recommendations from you and Andrei, it has to be good quality.? If this old Atlas chuck from ebay doesn't work, I'll be looking at this.? Thanks Andrei and Guenther.
-Jody



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...>
Date: 4/18/20 10:18 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

The chuck Andrei pointed out on e-bay is a great chuck. I have one?

GP


On Saturday, April 18, 2020, 6:23:34 PM EDT, Dave Matticks <dpm100@...> wrote:


Buck is no longer USA made, still nice though.
Maybe 2 years ago we got a new Bison "set true" 3 jaw chuck at work for a new CNC lathe. $900.00 for an 8" chuck with the back plate! Yikes!
It's ok.
Manual stuff with precision,4 jaw!
3 jaws are great for quick stuff and hex stock.

Dave
On April 18, 2020 at 5:03 PM Jeff Chadima <jeff.chadima@...> wrote:

"That Shars adjustable chuck is pricey"

Yes, pick the highest quality / tightest tolerance items and they will all be pricey.

?

Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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??? ??? One thing ya should do is after the chuck & backplate are all machined & put together for the last time ya want to make matching index marks with a center punch on the backplate & chuck right next to each other .??? ??? that way

??? ??? when ya take the chuck apart for cleaning ya can put it all back in the same place

??? ??? animal

On 4/19/2020 5:30 AM, perry7122 wrote:

Robert , I haven't been concerned because of the type work I do but was wondering.
? ? Once the chuck is set up with a machined back plate and you have zero runout do you have to mark the plate and spindle to be sure you get to back in the same place when removed and reinstalled? Seem's that differences in tightening would change the location somewhat.

I appreciate all you do in running this group.





Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Andrei <calciu1@...>
Date: 4/19/20 8:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

Robert, this is a great description. Thank you

Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Robert Downs via groups.io <wa5cab@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 12:29:40 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck
?

Let me clarify something – 3-jaw lathe chucks these days generally come in one of three ways.?

?

1)????? Generally the least expensive will be the type where the rear plate of the chuck comes already threaded or otherwise prepared to fit whatever mount that your spindle has and with no means of run-out adjustment.? For us that means threaded for 1”-8, 1”-10 or 1-1/2”-8.? The rear plate of the chuck also supports the rear of the scroll.

?

2)????? The second type, usually described as Plain Back or Flat Back, as it comes, has no way to mount or attach it to the spindle but is otherwise complete.? For it, you buy a separate backing plate usually already with the means to attach it to the spindle (in our case that means threaded) finish machined.? If you buy it from the lathe maker, it will usually already have the 3 to 8 chuck mounting holes drilled.? But the surface that will go against and into the rear of the chuck is not finish machined.? The buyer will normally do that machining on the lathe that it will run on, which will compensate for any spindle run-out.? This is the type that Dan is referring to below.?? And let me add that before doing the machining on the backing plate, you should do anything that you may have been putting off by way of adjusting or replacing the spindle bearings or bushings.? Otherwise, I hope that you either bought two backing plates or are living a charmed life.

?

3)????? The third type normally comes like the first type, with the spindle mount present and complete. But it also has a backing plate similar to the second type. ?With this type, you mount the chuck on the spindle and then follow the instructions that should have come with it to adjust the chuck for zero run-out.? But you do NOT do any machining on the chuck or backing plate.? And if you later replace the spindle bearings or bushings, all that you need to do is to check the run-out and if necessary (probably) dig out the instructions and repeat the zero run-out adjustments.

?

?

Robert Downs

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dan and Marlene Coleman
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 18:33
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

?

Buy one that requires a backing plate.? It will cost more to buy the chuck and the backing plate, but it is probably the best way to get one that runs true to your spindle.

?

Dan Coleman
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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That is how the Buck chuck works

Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of York Powell <yorkus@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 1:05:33 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck
?
I have heard of this method of making an “adjustable” chuck. I guess my concern would be if you do heavy cuts or maybe interrupted cuts that it would be thrown out of adjustment.
What is your experience?

Thanks
York

Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

York Powell
 

I have heard of this method of making an “adjustable” chuck. I guess my concern would be if you do heavy cuts or maybe interrupted cuts that it would be thrown out of adjustment.
What is your experience?

Thanks
York
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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I can't make out on my phone all the writing in the last picture, but is the chuck Fuking Brand?

Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dallas <n5fee@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 12:03:47 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck
?
I took a hybrid approach to #2 above.? I bought a? Chinese chuck that had a recessed step on the back that was about 0.4 inches deep.? I also bought a plain flat pre-threaded back plate to fit my spindle.? I turned a matching stub on the back plate that was about 50 thousandths smaller than the ID of the back plate step that stuck out just under the 0.4 inch cavity.? In the chuck body, I drilled and tapped 4 holes (1/4-20tpi)? at 0, 90, 180, & 270 degrees around the chuck periphery and installed set screws.? These 4 screws tighten against the back plate stub and allow the chuck body to be positioned on the back plate.? I drilled 3 slightly oversized holes in the back plate to match the existing mounting holes on the back side of the chuck body. I installed the chuck to the back plate but did not tighten fully just snug.? I chucked a piece of drill rod in the chuck and installed the chuck onto the spindle.? Using the 4 set screws I put the drill rod exactly on center using an indicator just like you would adjust a 4 jaw chuck.? The chuck bolts were then tightened to lock the back plate to the chuck.? I later made a similar setup for my Atlas 618 3jaw.? I discovered after some use the 9in chuck would have slightly different run out depending on which chuck key tightening hole was use.? I removed all but one key position and plugged with nylon as can be seen in last photos.? The first photo is 6in and last two are 9in chucks.

Dallas Shell
Oklahoma
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

I took a hybrid approach to #2 above.? I bought a? Chinese chuck that had a recessed step on the back that was about 0.4 inches deep.? I also bought a plain flat pre-threaded back plate to fit my spindle.? I turned a matching stub on the back plate that was about 50 thousandths smaller than the ID of the back plate step that stuck out just under the 0.4 inch cavity.? In the chuck body, I drilled and tapped 4 holes (1/4-20tpi)? at 0, 90, 180, & 270 degrees around the chuck periphery and installed set screws.? These 4 screws tighten against the back plate stub and allow the chuck body to be positioned on the back plate.? I drilled 3 slightly oversized holes in the back plate to match the existing mounting holes on the back side of the chuck body. I installed the chuck to the back plate but did not tighten fully just snug.? I chucked a piece of drill rod in the chuck and installed the chuck onto the spindle.? Using the 4 set screws I put the drill rod exactly on center using an indicator just like you would adjust a 4 jaw chuck.? The chuck bolts were then tightened to lock the back plate to the chuck.? I later made a similar setup for my Atlas 618 3jaw.? I discovered after some use the 9in chuck would have slightly different run out depending on which chuck key tightening hole was use.? I removed all but one key position and plugged with nylon as can be seen in last photos.? The first photo is 6in and last two are 9in chucks.

Dallas Shell
Oklahoma
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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I'm not shopping for a chuck but if you get one with reversible top jaws it gives you the option of using soft jaws for those certain jobs.
Shars steel soft jaws are really pretty nice, cheap too!

Dave?



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

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-------- Original message --------
From: Jody <jp4lsu@...>
Date: 4/19/20 09:44 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

I noticed that the listings for the SAN OU chucks are not listing a run out for the chuck.?

Shars looks 2 different run out ranges 0.003 TIR and 0.0012 TIR.
?Significant ant price increase for the better TIR.
I would be inclined to buy the San Ou over the? Shars if they list the run out is comparable.? Although I would need to buy a back plate for it.??
-Jody.





Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Jody via groups.io" <jp4lsu@...>
Date: 4/19/20 9:03 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

That looks to be a nice chuck.? Having recommendations from you and Andrei, it has to be good quality.? If this old Atlas chuck from ebay doesn't work, I'll be looking at this.? Thanks Andrei and Guenther.
-Jody



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...>
Date: 4/18/20 10:18 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

The chuck Andrei pointed out on e-bay is a great chuck. I have one?

GP


On Saturday, April 18, 2020, 6:23:34 PM EDT, Dave Matticks <dpm100@...> wrote:


Buck is no longer USA made, still nice though.
Maybe 2 years ago we got a new Bison "set true" 3 jaw chuck at work for a new CNC lathe. $900.00 for an 8" chuck with the back plate! Yikes!
It's ok.
Manual stuff with precision,4 jaw!
3 jaws are great for quick stuff and hex stock.

Dave
On April 18, 2020 at 5:03 PM Jeff Chadima <jeff.chadima@...> wrote:

"That Shars adjustable chuck is pricey"

Yes, pick the highest quality / tightest tolerance items and they will all be pricey.

?

Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

Jon
You will never have 0 run out on a self centering 3 jaw consider the wear. Even the top high priced chucks claim a run out

GP


On Sunday, April 19, 2020, 11:12:06 AM EDT, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:


On 04/19/2020 07:30 AM, perry7122 wrote:
Robert , I haven't been concerned because of the type work I do but was wondering.
? ? Once the chuck is set up with a machined back plate and you have zero runout do you have to mark the plate and spindle to be sure you get to back in the same place when removed and reinstalled? Seem's that differences in tightening would change the location somewhat.
No.? With the general accuracy and repeatability of a typical 3-jaw chuck, even new, the tiny variations in mounting to the spindle are not going to be detectable.? Anyway, with a threaded spindle, what are
you going to do about repeatable mounting?? It screws on until the collar hits the register, and that is it.
There are no options or adjustments.

Now, on a lathe with a camloc spindle, there are multiple positions to mount it, and there IS a mark to tell you which one is right.? That way, you get repeatable mounting.

Jon
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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On 04/19/2020 07:48 AM, mondosmetals wrote:
On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
And, I think they stopped making these about 5 years ago.? There are import clones, I have a Phase-II.
An 8" Buck Adjust-Tru chuck was listed at close to $1000 when they last made them.


Buck Chuck company still lists Adjust-Tru chucks on-line:

VERY interesting.? It was noted in some of the tool catalogs that they were stopping production, which I thought was pretty odd when I saw it.? I'm guessing something was lost in translation, and they might
have just been announcing changing to off-shore manufacturing.

Jon
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

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On 04/19/2020 07:30 AM, perry7122 wrote:
Robert , I haven't been concerned because of the type work I do but was wondering.
? ? Once the chuck is set up with a machined back plate and you have zero runout do you have to mark the plate and spindle to be sure you get to back in the same place when removed and reinstalled? Seem's that differences in tightening would change the location somewhat.
No.? With the general accuracy and repeatability of a typical 3-jaw chuck, even new, the tiny variations in mounting to the spindle are not going to be detectable.? Anyway, with a threaded spindle, what are
you going to do about repeatable mounting?? It screws on until the collar hits the register, and that is it.
There are no options or adjustments.

Now, on a lathe with a camloc spindle, there are multiple positions to mount it, and there IS a mark to tell you which one is right.? That way, you get repeatable mounting.

Jon
Re: I Need a 3 Jaw Chuck

 

I am another happy CDCO customer. The chucks with the two piece jaws are really nice because you can do soft jaws and you don’t have to run the jaws all the way out to flip them around to go from internal to external.? Because I did the chuck with a separate back plate that I finish machine I did not spend the extra money on the adjust true.? If I need high precision I’ve got a four chuck and a adjust thru collet holder, but for general machining are usually just use the three jaw.

Chris F
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