Re: Atlas / Craftsman 10F-12 10" & 12" Lathe Half Nuts / Split Nut
Yes, there was a copy of the Atlas half nut installation instructions included with the new nuts. No adjustment needed other than moving the tailstock to the far RH end of the bed, lock down the taikstock, then move the saddle down to the far RH end of the bed as far as the tailstock will allow. Then use a 7/16” wrench to loosen the hex head screw on the underside of the leadscrew bearing bracket. Then engage the half nut lever to clamp the half nuts onto the leadscrew. This sets the leadscrew bearing bracket front/rear position. Finally tighten the hex head screw on the bottom of the leadscrew bearing bracket.
This was an install on a Model 3996 12” Atlas (aka “Craftsman Commercial”). The “Adjusting Lead Screw Alignment” instructions are shown in the Model 3996 Operating Instructions and Parts List in the Group files section.
On an Atlas 10F lathe, the 10F-16 leadscrew bearing bracket is solid with no forward/rear adjustment. I guess if any adjustment was necessary one could shim behind the bracket or remove a slight amount of material from the mounting face of the bracket.
Steve Haskell
Troy, MI
|
I have a South Bend and two Atlas lathes. One has wide belt drive. I can’t seem to get the tension tight enough to prevent slip. Any hints?
|
Re: Atlas / Craftsman 10F-12 10" & 12" Lathe Half Nuts / Split Nut
I put a brass set in two years ago and posted the pics.? Some here thought it was OK and others stated that the Zmac was a good set and the standard to maintain.? As I remember, there is an adjustment that was to be made if you use the brass set.? I would have to go the shop (miles away) to find the paper.? Did you get this paper with the half nuts??
On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 8:39 PM Jody < jp4lsu@...> wrote: Thanks Steve,
I'll hang onto this seller for future half nut swap. Jody -------- Original message -------- From: "Steven H via Groups.Io" <stevesmachining= [email protected]> Date: 2/4/19 8:04 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [email protected] Subject: [atlas-craftsman IO] Atlas / Craftsman 10F-12 10" & 12" Lathe Half Nuts / Split Nut  Look at this on eBay
Here is the link to the brass half nuts that I installed in my lathe yesterday. Steve Haskell Troy, MI
|
If the OD was perfectly coventry to the bore , this would work.? However that is never the case. Barrel work should be set up off the bore.
Thats an interesting idea? though. -Jody
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: S Johnson <cascadianroot@...> Date: 2/4/19 7:25 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Making Spide Has anyone ever tried making a spider with a collet chuck to hold the outboard end of the work?? It seems like that would center up easier.
|
Re: Atlas / Craftsman 10F-12 10" & 12" Lathe Half Nuts / Split Nut
Thanks Steve,
I'll hang onto this seller for future half nut swap. Jody
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "Steven H via Groups.Io" <stevesmachining@...> Date: 2/4/19 8:04 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [email protected] Subject: [atlas-craftsman IO] Atlas / Craftsman 10F-12 10" & 12" Lathe Half Nuts / Split Nut Look at this on eBay
Here is the link to the brass half nuts that I installed in my lathe yesterday. Steve Haskell Troy, MI
|
Atlas / Craftsman 10F-12 10" & 12" Lathe Half Nuts / Split Nut
Look at this on eBay
Here is the link to the brass half nuts that I installed in my lathe yesterday. Steve Haskell Troy, MI
|
I've got a sears version of the Atlas 618, but it doesn't have an id tag. I'd appreciate your assistance in identifying the model number.
Thank you in advance.?
Don
|
Has anyone ever tried making a spider with a collet chuck to hold the outboard end of the work?? It seems like that would center up easier.
|
Re: How to align spindle to bed
Thank you Raymond for the excellent information and explanation. Bob?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 4, 2019, at 1:41 PM, mondosmetals < jwrey@...> wrote: Be certain the cross dove on top of the carriage has not become worn such that it is hour-glass shaped - narrow in the middle, or wedge shaped - narrow at front or back. You can measure this with a pair of small precision steel balls and a micrometer. The balls should be smaller than the total height of the dove but large enough to leave them protruding out from under the top edge of the dove on both sides. Set the balls on opposite sides of the dove, use a square to assure they are exactly opposite each other, them measure the width with a micrometer. (a bit of heavy oil can be used to help keep them from rolling away while doing this!) Any deviation in width indicates wear. This can be corrected on a vertical mill with a 60° cutter or rotary hone to shave just a tiny bit off one or both sides of the dove, just enough to eliminate the measured anomaly. Mounting the carriage on the mill table in the correct alignment to make these cuts is critical. If you do not know how to do this take the carriage to a professional machinist.? Conceivably one can do this with a small hone by hand if it has the proper shape. Lay a strip of file card on the horizontal surface, you want to hone only the sloped undersides of the dove.
Another item is cross slide dove alignment. To check that lock the carriage at a position close to the headstock with a known flat plate mounted on the spindle. Set an indicator on the cross slide such that it's plunger contacts the plate surface nearest the operator and slowly rotate the plate to assure it is in fact flat- there should be no movement of the indicator dial. Now crank the cross-slide to move the indicator towards the back of the lathe, again the indicator should show no movement. The cross slide should be snug on the carriage dovetail without any twist or play at any point in it's travel - correct that first - see the discussion above. Then any movement detected as the indicator is moved from front to back shows the carriage dove is not square to the spindle axis. There is a gib between the carriage and the back edge of the rear way. If you loosen all the gib screws you can "twist" the carriage on the ways. Snug the screws just enough to remove all play then check again. If the indicator shows the cross slide moving closer or farther from the plate as it moves from front to back the dove is not square to the spindle axis and the ways. In a pinch you can adjust these screws so the carriage dove is square to the plate on the spindle, but this will cause the front vertical surface of the carriage to wear unevenly. Either the contact is at the headstock end at the the tailstock end. This will also cause uneven wear on that vertical surface on the front way and can cause it to become concave from HS to TS end. You may be able to get a small Arkansas stone in the "groove" in the carriage to hone the vertical surface in the carriage if correction is necessary.
Raymond
|
OK.? The best that I can say is between 1948 and 1953.? ? The photo on page 6 shows the switch escutcheon (mounting plate) is rectangular.? The rectangular escutcheon first appeared in a 1942 catalog. ? The first edition MOLO was, according to a catalog photo from early 1937, exact bound (glue and staples).? Then (possibly 1938) they switched to spiral wire binding, first one long piece, then two shorter pieces and finally three short pieces.? Finally they switched to the plastic finger or comb binding.? GBC, the company that invented plastic multiple fingers binding method, went into business in mid-1947.? Probably in 1948, Atlas switched to that binding method.? And used it all the way up to 1988 when they switched back to one piece wire. ? Robert Downs ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Don Newbold
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 13:19
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] new guy - old 618? Robert,
Attached are the photos you requested for identification
Don
On 1/29/2019 10:21 PM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io wrote: OK.? Send me a photo of the binding. The Copyright page, and of page 6
(not actually numbered but follows page 5).
Robert Downs
*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
Behalf Of *Don Newbold
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 29, 2019 16:23
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] new guy - old 618
Robert,
Do you suppose you could help me figure out what year my manual was
published? I've made a brief comparison of the PDF and hard copies I've
got and none are duplicates. My 1937 hard copy section seven is titled
"ATLAS F-SERIES 10-INCH LATHES" and the pages are numbered one to 63.
Don
On 1/28/2019 12:23 AM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io wrote:
The MOLO’s that on the Copyright page say Copyright 1937 were printed
and reprinted (7 known versions) between 1937 and 1953.? I have never
seen nor have I ever heard of anyone having a First Edition actually
printed in 1937.? I have two and have heard of three or four more
editions that were probably printed in 1938.? Except for Chapter 7 –
Threading, which is machine specific, the majority of all editions are
pretty much generic.? Exceptions are that the majority of photos are of
the 10” model in production the year that each copy was printed.? And
the speed related charts? such as RPM versus diameter for specific SFM
assume a 10” or 12”.? However, the charts are close enough to be
usable.? There actually was at least one printing or edition where
Chapter 7 is specific to the 6”.? However, they are pretty rare.
From 1954 on, Chapter 7 includes coverage of the 6”.? >From 1957 on,
Chapter 7 covers the 1/2“ bed 12” and the 6”.
The change to a recommendation for SAE 20 appears to have been
retroactive.? However, I have been wondering lately whether it might be
better to continue using SAE 10 on the sleeve bearings in the 101.07301.
Robert Downs
*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
Behalf Of *Don Newbold
*Sent:* Friday, January 25, 2019 12:21
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] new guy - old 618
I've looked through a bunch of pdf's and a couple of original printed
manuals My original 1937 Atlas manual never mentions 618 or any other
model number, as best I could tell, but it discusses both bearing styles
and shows pictures of both styles.
I noticed one little tid bit of information. In the 1937 manual 10
weight oil is used. In the later manuals, 50s/60s and later, 20 weight
is used.
Don
<>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
<>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
|
Re: How to align spindle to bed
Be certain the cross dove on top of the carriage has not become worn such that it is hour-glass shaped - narrow in the middle, or wedge shaped - narrow at front or back. You can measure this with a pair of small precision steel balls and a micrometer. The balls should be smaller than the total height of the dove but large enough to leave them protruding out from under the top edge of the dove on both sides. Set the balls on opposite sides of the dove, use a square to assure they are exactly opposite each other, them measure the width with a micrometer. (a bit of heavy oil can be used to help keep them from rolling away while doing this!) Any deviation in width indicates wear. This can be corrected on a vertical mill with a 60° cutter or rotary hone to shave just a tiny bit off one or both sides of the dove, just enough to eliminate the measured anomaly. Mounting the carriage on the mill table in the correct alignment to make these cuts is critical. If you do not know how to do this take the carriage to a professional machinist.? Conceivably one can do this with a small hone by hand if it has the proper shape. Lay a strip of file card on the horizontal surface, you want to hone only the sloped undersides of the dove.
Another item is cross slide dove alignment. To check that lock the carriage at a position close to the headstock with a known flat plate mounted on the spindle. Set an indicator on the cross slide such that it's plunger contacts the plate surface nearest the operator and slowly rotate the plate to assure it is in fact flat- there should be no movement of the indicator dial. Now crank the cross-slide to move the indicator towards the back of the lathe, again the indicator should show no movement. The cross slide should be snug on the carriage dovetail without any twist or play at any point in it's travel - correct that first - see the discussion above. Then any movement detected as the indicator is moved from front to back shows the carriage dove is not square to the spindle axis. There is a gib between the carriage and the back edge of the rear way. If you loosen all the gib screws you can "twist" the carriage on the ways. Snug the screws just enough to remove all play then check again. If the indicator shows the cross slide moving closer or farther from the plate as it moves from front to back the dove is not square to the spindle axis and the ways. In a pinch you can adjust these screws so the carriage dove is square to the plate on the spindle, but this will cause the front vertical surface of the carriage to wear unevenly. Either the contact is at the headstock end at the the tailstock end. This will also cause uneven wear on that vertical surface on the front way and can cause it to become concave from HS to TS end. You may be able to get a small Arkansas stone in the "groove" in the carriage to hone the vertical surface in the carriage if correction is necessary.
Raymond
|
In gunsmithing you will run a spider on both sides of the
headstock to avoid that issue, there being essentially point
contact on both ends.?? You will generally center it using pin
gauges.?? Alternatively you can set one end of the barrel in a
chuck and the other end supported in a center rest ( steady rest)
and once again, center it using pin gauges.? In this case, unless
the chuck or the barrel are way out of wack, the degree of
deflection is small over the length of the barrel, so no
problems.? Unless you are working with an un-tapered barrel blank
usually you are a long ways from having full jaw contact anyway
with a shim and taper to be contended with.? None of these setups
are designed for hogging out lots of material.?
Charles
On 2/4/2019 2:08 PM, Robert Downs via
Groups.Io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
If the stock is larger in
diameter than 25/32” it won’t go through the spindle on an
Atlas 9”, 10” or 12” anyway.
?
If the stock diameter is
25/32” or less and it is held in a 3-jaw chuck or collet on
the right end of the spindle and you attempt to move the
left end by over tightening one or two of the four bolts in
a traditional spider, you will be trying to bend the part or
move the chuck jaws or collet.
?
Robert Downs
?
|
If the stock is larger in diameter than 25/32” it won’t go through the spindle on an Atlas 9”, 10” or 12” anyway. ? If the stock diameter is 25/32” or less and it is held in a 3-jaw chuck or collet on the right end of the spindle and you attempt to move the left end by over tightening one or two of the four bolts in a traditional spider, you will be trying to bend the part or move the chuck jaws or collet. ? Robert Downs ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jody
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 06:40
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Making Spide? Robert,
I see where you are going.? This is actually and excellent idea for stock up to the 3/4" size.? This might be added to the growing list of projects for tolling on my lathe.? It seems my project list for lathe tooling is much longer than the actual project list.? It's like I'm wanting to make tooling for the possiblity of needing it one day.? Oh well....good practice.
The big reason you need a spider is to adjust for the cocentricity using the 4 adjustable bolts, something the Jacobs couldnt' do.? But for just holding stock from whipping around, this is actually a good idea Robert.
-Jody
|
Re: How to align spindle to bed
See attachment: Rollie's Dad's Method of Lathe Alignment, from (New England Model Engineering Society)
Raymond
?
|
Robert,
Attached are the photos you requested for identification.
Don
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1/29/2019 10:21 PM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io wrote: OK.? Send me a photo of the binding. The Copyright page, and of page 6
(not actually numbered but follows page 5).
Robert Downs
*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
Behalf Of *Don Newbold
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 29, 2019 16:23
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] new guy - old 618
Robert,
Do you suppose you could help me figure out what year my manual was
published? I've made a brief comparison of the PDF and hard copies I've
got and none are duplicates. My 1937 hard copy section seven is titled
"ATLAS F-SERIES 10-INCH LATHES" and the pages are numbered one to 63.
Don
On 1/28/2019 12:23 AM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io wrote:
The MOLO’s that on the Copyright page say Copyright 1937 were printed
and reprinted (7 known versions) between 1937 and 1953.? I have never
seen nor have I ever heard of anyone having a First Edition actually
printed in 1937.? I have two and have heard of three or four more
editions that were probably printed in 1938.? Except for Chapter 7 –
Threading, which is machine specific, the majority of all editions are
pretty much generic.? Exceptions are that the majority of photos are of
the 10” model in production the year that each copy was printed.? And
the speed related charts? such as RPM versus diameter for specific SFM
assume a 10” or 12”.? However, the charts are close enough to be
usable.? There actually was at least one printing or edition where
Chapter 7 is specific to the 6”.? However, they are pretty rare.
From 1954 on, Chapter 7 includes coverage of the 6”.? >From 1957 on,
Chapter 7 covers the 1/2“ bed 12” and the 6”.
The change to a recommendation for SAE 20 appears to have been
retroactive.? However, I have been wondering lately whether it might be
better to continue using SAE 10 on the sleeve bearings in the 101.07301.
Robert Downs
*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
Behalf Of *Don Newbold
*Sent:* Friday, January 25, 2019 12:21
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] new guy - old 618
I've looked through a bunch of pdf's and a couple of original printed
manuals. My original 1937 Atlas manual never mentions 618 or any other
model number, as best I could tell, but it discusses both bearing styles
and shows pictures of both styles.
I noticed one little tid bit of information. In the 1937 manual 10
weight oil is used. In the later manuals, 50s/60s and later, 20 weight
is used.
Don
<>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
<>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
|
Re: How to align spindle to bed
On 02/03/2019 09:49 PM, Robert Duvall
wrote:
Thank you everyone for the great information. Mike what a great
find.that hardened shaft looks amazing. So I do have timken
bearing in this lathe so when ?I restored this lathe a year ago I
changed them out and set the preload correctly. Being that the
headstock is an interference fit to the bed maybe there isn’t a
problem with the headstock to bed alignment. Maybe there
misalignment with the tail stock or something going south with the
cross Slide?
OK, the next thing to check for is twist in the bed.? A master
precision level is the tool for this, but there are some other ways
to measure it.? Also, wear of the bed, especially the rear vertical
face can cause taper problems.? Use the best dial or digital caliper
you can find (or a 6-7" micrometer is the right size, I think) and
measure front to back at several points along the bed (6" from
headstock and 1" from the tailstock end) and see if there is a
difference.? If the difference is significant, then you have a real
problem!
Jon
|
Those are nice looking Charles.? Thanks for the links.? I might pick up those cap screws.
-Jody
|
Robert,
I see where you are going.? This is actually and excellent idea for stock up to the 3/4" size.? This might be added to the growing list of projects for tolling on my lathe.? It seems my project list for lathe tooling is much longer than the actual project list.? It's like I'm wanting to make tooling for the possiblity of needing it one day.? Oh well....good practice.
The big reason you need a spider is to adjust for the cocentricity using the 4 adjustable bolts, something the Jacobs couldnt' do.? But for just holding stock from whipping around, this is actually a good idea Robert.
-Jody
|
Re: New half nut installation
Brass half-nuts....that's a great upgrade.? Didn't know those were out there to buy.? I wish I had known this when I rebuilt mine.?
Thanks for the pics.? Very nice looking and yes, very good looking welds.
-Jody
|
Re: How to align spindle to bed
I bought MT2 and MT3 versions of these a few years ago , and they have proved invaluable in setting up my , and others, lathes , resetting tailstocks etc . . .? a worthwhile investment and a great time and frustration saver , ? Carvel ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mike allen
Sent: 04 February 2019 05:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] How to align spindle to bed? ??? ??? I just ordered 1 of these , seemed worth it as we have several lathes in our group that it will fit . $50.00 with shipping from england , well see how long it takes to get here ??? ??? ??? ??? animal On 2/3/2019 4:00 PM, Steven H via Groups.Io wrote: One way to do it, costs some money, would be to make or preferably purchase a ground Morse taper 3 alignment bar with about 12” of straight length. I have such a bar that I purchased from an eBay seller a few years back. I also have a MT2 alignment bare which is useful for checking the tailstock and will work on a 6” Atlas lathe spindle. Clean the spindle taper, install the bar in the spindle, and use a dial indicator and mag base on the carriage to check both vertical and horizontal alignment running the dial indicator back and forth on the top and front or rear face of the alignment bar.
Perhaps you could achieve the same check if you had a nice new three jaw chuck installed on the spindle and used a nice straight length of 3/4 or 1” diameter drill rod instead of the alignment bar in the spindle taper.
I have several pdf’s on lathe alignment and various methods of checking lathe alignment and condition if you think those would be useful to you let me know and I will send them to you via email.
Steve Haskell
Troy, MI ?
|
Steven H