Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
The bolts can be made from carriage bolts. Just take a regular carriage bolt and turn the head diameter down to match the dia. of the OEM bolt you will have a exact match
GP
On Tuesday, January 29, 2019, 7:41:56 AM EST, Charles <xlch58@...> wrote:
If you had to fabricate them in the shop it could be done without a mill. ?Turn the sleeves to side and file a channel in each side. ?Silver soldier key stock in place. ?The channel does not have to be a tight fit or very deep, just a something to give the solder joint some mechanical support and increase the contact area. ?
On Jan 29, 2019, at 5:56 AM, Jody < jp4lsu@...> wrote: Bill,
Would the material hold up to the grease and gunk of the gear train?
I think it is definitely hard enough using the right material but how is the abrasion resistance and how will it handle the nasty gear train environment.
-Jody
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
If you had to fabricate them in the shop it could be done without a mill. ?Turn the sleeves to side and file a channel in each side. ?Silver soldier key stock in place. ?The channel does not have to be a tight fit or very deep, just a something to give the solder joint some mechanical support and increase the contact area. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 29, 2019, at 5:56 AM, Jody < jp4lsu@...> wrote: Bill,
Would the material hold up to the grease and gunk of the gear train?
I think it is definitely hard enough using the right material but how is the abrasion resistance and how will it handle the nasty gear train environment.
-Jody
|
Re: F-10 series lathe v-48
Call Clausing-Indistrial parts department first. (800) 323-0972
Raymond
|
Re: Concern with my Spindle
Hey Brad,
No the covers shouldn't hold oil.? It is designed as a "total loss" system.? Oil is constantly washing the bearings and surfaces to the bottom of the dust covers and leaks out.
I started this thread because the right oil cup with the felt would take 3x longer to empty than the left.? Actually every time the lathe sat for a day, the left cup would need oil and the right was still full.? This issue isn't becasue the oil is piling up to the oil cup, I think it is just the felt is slowing it down more than the left cup for some reason.
in fact if I take the felt out and just squirt oil into the cup, I can watch flow out of the bottom of the dust cover as fast as I can put it in.? So you are correct, the dust covers do not seal and the oil is supposed to leak out of the dust covers.
-Jody (DFW)
|
?Hey guys - lm in the tearing down and cleaning ?stage and finding a lot of missing parts especially for the threading gears among other things , haven’t contacted Clausing International yet about parts availability, hoping some spacers and sleeves to start they will have ?. ?Any other sources out there, maybe a possibility along with E bay ? ? ? ?
thanks for everybody’s help ! Barry ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Only way to know for sure is to try it. But I think it will work well. Or at least well enough. The gears and bushings are zamac, not the toughest alloy around. ABS is pretty tough. 3d-printed parts of ABS aren't as tough as injection-molded ABS, but Mr. Pete222 was using 3d-printed gears. The ones with high infill did well in his tests. Bushings aren't going to be stressed as much as the teeth of a gear, or so I believe.?
Only one way to truly know, of course.
Bill in OKC?
Sent from my Sprint Phone.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Jody <jp4lsu@...> Date: 1/29/19 5:56 AM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Bill, Would the material hold up to the grease and gunk of the gear train? I think it is definitely hard enough using the right material but how is the abrasion resistance and how will it handle the nasty gear train environment. -Jody
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Bill,
Would the material hold up to the grease and gunk of the gear train?
I think it is definitely hard enough using the right material but how is the abrasion resistance and how will it handle the nasty gear train environment.
-Jody
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Ken,
thanks for the idea. I ran across these on the internets yesterday and had never heard of the term elevator bolts.? I think they could work if you can find one with a thick enough flange on it.
-Jody
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Haha!
I was thinking that yesterday when Robert brought to my attention that even if I had a bolt, I'm still missing the rest of the assembly to hold the gear.? So I was thinking I will make the sleeve, that should be easy enough, but then the bushing with the integral keys in them posed another problem.
You're right Charles, that part is easy enough to make and would've been good practice for me.
-Jody
|
Re: Concern with my Spindle
Regarding the covers being seals, that is exactly what I thought. However, after reading a few comments here I started to question my thinking. Thanks for making me question myself less. Hahaha!!
As for removing the spindle, I tried exactly as you described over and over, with no success. No matter what I did, I just could not get the woodruff key to come up with pliers. Tapping it down to rock it out of the slot was the only thing that worked. And I needed to expose the whole key to do that. I read about that technique on this site somewhere, I’m pretty sure. Anyway, it’s running good now. No harm, no foul. ?
Thanks, ?
Brad
On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 2:35 AM Robert Downs via Groups.Io <wa5cab= [email protected]> wrote: Mike and Brad, ? There are no seals on the spindle or spindle flange.? The four steel cups, one of which is on each side of each bearing on the spindle, have a average clearance of about 0.012” all around on the flange OD behind the chuck and between the cup ID and spindle or spacer OD at the other three locations.? This is from actual measurements on my particular 3996.? I don’t know what the tolerance on this fit is.? But this is the gap through which the oil from the oil cups on top of the headstock drips or runs.? The cups are more correctly classed as covers rather than seals. ? On the issue of removing the Woodruff key from the spindle, if you drive the key into the inner dust cover and dent the cover, you drove the spindle out too far before removing the key.? The Atlas Technical manual (readily available to all members) clearly says to remove the key with a pair of pliers.? If you loosen the set screws in the collar to the left of the small spindle gear, the two gears and the pulley will move slightly to the left.? The may ?still be slightly underneath the bull gear.? If sp, when you remove the key, you pull up on the end nearest the tailstock and it comes out at an angle.? Same when you reinstall it.? You stick the left end of the key into the keyway in the bull gear and into the key seat in the spindle and then tap the right end down with a pin punch.? Theoretically there should be just enough room to get the key into and out of the keyway with the key straight but in practice it may not quite work out that way.? Unfortunately, the Technical Bulletin does not warn you about this. ? Robert Downs ? ? my question would be , if the seals are good on both sides of
the bearing ,how does the oil get inside of the bearing ?
??? ??? animal
On 1/28/2019 5:38 PM, Brad wrote: Hi everyone. I have a Craftsman Commercial 12” It has the Timken
bearings - I know because I had it apart two weeks ago to fix the bull
gear engagement pin. Another story for another day.
Anyway, this thread has interested me for one reason, the oil cups. I
always operated under the assumption that the purpose for the felt in
the cups was to provide a constant drip to the bearings, as well as
filter out any swarf from getting into the bearings through the oil
supply. I never would have thought that the dust covers were meant to
act as “seals” to retain so much oil around the bearings that it built
up to the level of the felt cup.
From what I’ve read in this thread, it seems that is the belief of
some. I have never had any concern with my bearings getting oil, as I
constantly fill the felts and have no reason to believe they’re not
dripping into the bearings.
My concern is this - when removing the spindle, it has to be driven
toward the tailstock and the bull gear pulled rearward to dismount it
from the woodruff key on the spindle. In order to get enough space,
the woodruff key has to basically be driven into the inside front dust
cover, denting it and causing the edge to become somewhat misshapen.
The spindle is now back together, and everything is running tip top.
The felts are doing their job, just as they always have. But there is
absolutely no way the inner dust cover is going to be oil tight,
especially after getting beaten up by the woodruff key. Should I
really be expecting those dust covers to be holding oil up to the
level of the cups? From what I’ve read, it sounds like some members’
lathes do? Or are the felts really just there to dispense the oil in a
measured fashion?
Thanks,
Brad
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Dave,
That's the one.? Robert brought it to my attention that I will need the sleeve and bushing, something in my haste to find a solution didn't even think about.? Rooting around in the parts box that came with the lathe, no sleeve or bushing , nut and thick washer.
I actually found 2 on ebay that have the whole assembly (bolt, bushing, sleeve, nut, washer).? I think I may buy one of these guys.? Thanks a lot for looking into that and offering.? I would do it but the fact that i don't have the other components to hold the gear, Id still be dead in the water.
If it ain't one thing it is something else.
-Jody
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
That is something that should be 3d-printable. If somebody who has one accessible would take a photo of the end and a couple side views, I'll see if I can make a proper CAD drawing and STL file of it. I should have at least one on my TH42 I can take measurements from, and I'll print it.?
Bill in OKC?
Bill in?
Sent from my Sprint Phone.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "Robert Downs via Groups.Io" <wa5cab@...> Date: 1/29/19 1:52 AM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Yeah, but the kicker is trying to make the bushing with integral external double keys.? Without that, you’re still dead in the water. ? ? ? If only he had a tool capable of turning rods of steel into custom hardware:’). ?Simple turning threading and a little file work. ? ?
On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:18 PM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io <wa5cab@...> wrote:
Jody, ? Besides a third special bolt (9-69A), the Atlas 10F and early 12” all came with a third 9-73A Sleeve, 9-70A Bushing and 9-93A Washer.? When you call Clausing to order those, you may as well order the bolt as well.? ? ?
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Only one key would probably work OK but with no keys, Murphy’s Law pretty much guarantees that either the gear would rotate and not the bushing (and put wear on the bore of the gear), or that would happen for a while and then the gear would suddenly stick to the bushing and be difficult to remove. ?And replacing the gear would cost more than replacing the other parts. ? ? ? Robert Downs ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Harrington
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 02:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Missing Feed Gear Bolt? Curious, if it is just a gear in the train is the double key necessary? Why wouldn't a simple snug spacer/bushing work?
Another candidate for a commonly available bolt with enough meat on it to modify into what you need (machine it down) you might look at "elevator" bolts.
Ken H in AZ
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Curious, if it is just a gear in the train is the double key necessary? Why wouldn't a simple snug spacer/bushing work?
Another candidate for a commonly available bolt with enough meat on it to modify into what you need (machine it down) you might look at "elevator" bolts.
Ken H in AZ
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
Yeah, but the kicker is trying to make the bushing with integral external double keys.? Without that, you’re still dead in the water. ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 21:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Missing Feed Gear Bolt? If only he had a tool capable of turning rods of steel into custom hardware:’). ?Simple turning threading and a little file work. ? ?
On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:18 PM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io <wa5cab@...> wrote:
Jody, ? Besides a third special bolt (9-69A), the Atlas 10F and early 12” all came with a third 9-73A Sleeve, 9-70A Bushing and 9-93A Washer.? When you call Clausing to order those, you may as well order the bolt as well.? ? ?
|
Re: Concern with my Spindle
Mike, ? And after all of that, I didn’t actually answer your question.? The holes in the top of the headstock that the oil cups fit into are intended to be between the right bearing cup and the right cover for the right hand oil cup and the reverse for the left hand one.? So the oil drips down onto the cone.? Just barely in my case. ? Robert Downs ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mike allen
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 20:05
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Concern with my Spindle? my question would be , if the seals are good on both sides of
the bearing ,how does the oil get inside of the bearing ?
??? ??? animal
|
Re: Concern with my Spindle
Mike and Brad, ? There are no seals on the spindle or spindle flange.? The four steel cups, one of which is on each side of each bearing on the spindle, have a average clearance of about 0.012” all around on the flange OD behind the chuck and between the cup ID and spindle or spacer OD at the other three locations.? This is from actual measurements on my particular 3996.? I don’t know what the tolerance on this fit is.? But this is the gap through which the oil from the oil cups on top of the headstock drips or runs.? The cups are more correctly classed as covers rather than seals. ? On the issue of removing the Woodruff key from the spindle, if you drive the key into the inner dust cover and dent the cover, you drove the spindle out too far before removing the key.? The Atlas Technical manual (readily available to all members) clearly says to remove the key with a pair of pliers.? If you loosen the set screws in the collar to the left of the small spindle gear, the two gears and the pulley will move slightly to the left.? The may ?still be slightly underneath the bull gear.? If sp, when you remove the key, you pull up on the end nearest the tailstock and it comes out at an angle.? Same when you reinstall it.? You stick the left end of the key into the keyway in the bull gear and into the key seat in the spindle and then tap the right end down with a pin punch.? Theoretically there should be just enough room to get the key into and out of the keyway with the key straight but in practice it may not quite work out that way.? Unfortunately, the Technical Bulletin does not warn you about this. ? Robert Downs ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mike allen
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 20:05
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Concern with my Spindle? my question would be , if the seals are good on both sides of
the bearing ,how does the oil get inside of the bearing ?
??? ??? animal
On 1/28/2019 5:38 PM, Brad wrote: Hi everyone. I have a Craftsman Commercial 12” It has the Timken
bearings - I know because I had it apart two weeks ago to fix the bull
gear engagement pin. Another story for another day.
Anyway, this thread has interested me for one reason, the oil cups. I
always operated under the assumption that the purpose for the felt in
the cups was to provide a constant drip to the bearings, as well as
filter out any swarf from getting into the bearings through the oil
supply. I never would have thought that the dust covers were meant to
act as “seals” to retain so much oil around the bearings that it built
up to the level of the felt cup.
From what I’ve read in this thread, it seems that is the belief of
some. I have never had any concern with my bearings getting oil, as I
constantly fill the felts and have no reason to believe they’re not
dripping into the bearings.
My concern is this - when removing the spindle, it has to be driven
toward the tailstock and the bull gear pulled rearward to dismount it
from the woodruff key on the spindle. In order to get enough space,
the woodruff key has to basically be driven into the inside front dust
cover, denting it and causing the edge to become somewhat misshapen.
The spindle is now back together, and everything is running tip top.
The felts are doing their job, just as they always have. But there is
absolutely no way the inner dust cover is going to be oil tight,
especially after getting beaten up by the woodruff key. Should I
really be expecting those dust covers to be holding oil up to the
level of the cups? From what I’ve read, it sounds like some members’
lathes do? Or are the felts really just there to dispense the oil in a
measured fashion?
Thanks,
Brad
|
Re: Concern with my Spindle
The dust covers on my 10F have little slots in them to clear the key . . . My understanding has been that they are there to protect the bearings and are not oil seals . Carvel
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: mike allen Date:2019/01/29 4:05 AM (GMT+02:00) Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Concern with my Spindle
my question would be , if the seals are good on both sides of the bearing ,how does the oil get inside of the bearing ? ??? ??? animal On 1/28/2019 5:38 PM, Brad wrote: Hi everyone. I have a Craftsman Commercial 12”. It has the Timken
bearings - I know because I had it apart two weeks ago to fix the bull
gear engagement pin. Another story for another day.
Anyway, this thread has interested me for one reason, the oil cups. I
always operated under the assumption that the purpose for the felt in
the cups was to provide a constant drip to the bearings, as well as
filter out any swarf from getting into the bearings through the oil
supply. I never would have thought that the dust covers were meant to
act as “seals” to retain so much oil around the bearings that it built
up to the level of the felt cup.
From what I’ve read in this thread, it seems that is the belief of
some. I have never had any concern with my bearings getting oil, as I
constantly fill the felts and have no reason to believe they’re not
dripping into the bearings.
My concern is this - when removing the spindle, it has to be driven
toward the tailstock and the bull gear pulled rearward to dismount it
from the woodruff key on the spindle. In order to get enough space,
the woodruff key has to basically be driven into the inside front dust
cover, denting it and causing the edge to become somewhat misshapen.
The spindle is now back together, and everything is running tip top.
The felts are doing their job, just as they always have. But there is
absolutely no way the inner dust cover is going to be oil tight,
especially after getting beaten up by the woodruff key. Should I
really be expecting those dust covers to be holding oil up to the
level of the cups? From what I’ve read, it sounds like some members’
lathes do? Or are the felts really just there to dispense the oil in a
measured fashion?
Thanks,
Brad
|
Re: Missing Feed Gear Bolt
If only he had a tool capable of turning rods of steel into custom hardware:’). ?Simple turning threading and a little file work. ?
Charles
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:18 PM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io < wa5cab@...> wrote: Jody, ? Besides a third special bolt (9-69A), the Atlas 10F and early 12” all came with a third 9-73A Sleeve, 9-70A Bushing and 9-93A Washer.? When you call Clausing to order those, you may as well order the bolt as well.?
?
|
Re: Concern with my Spindle
my question would be , if the seals are good on both sides of
the bearing ,how does the oil get inside of the bearing ?
??? ??? animal
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1/28/2019 5:38 PM, Brad wrote: Hi everyone. I have a Craftsman Commercial 12”. It has the Timken
bearings - I know because I had it apart two weeks ago to fix the bull
gear engagement pin. Another story for another day.
Anyway, this thread has interested me for one reason, the oil cups. I
always operated under the assumption that the purpose for the felt in
the cups was to provide a constant drip to the bearings, as well as
filter out any swarf from getting into the bearings through the oil
supply. I never would have thought that the dust covers were meant to
act as “seals” to retain so much oil around the bearings that it built
up to the level of the felt cup.
From what I’ve read in this thread, it seems that is the belief of
some. I have never had any concern with my bearings getting oil, as I
constantly fill the felts and have no reason to believe they’re not
dripping into the bearings.
My concern is this - when removing the spindle, it has to be driven
toward the tailstock and the bull gear pulled rearward to dismount it
from the woodruff key on the spindle. In order to get enough space,
the woodruff key has to basically be driven into the inside front dust
cover, denting it and causing the edge to become somewhat misshapen.
The spindle is now back together, and everything is running tip top.
The felts are doing their job, just as they always have. But there is
absolutely no way the inner dust cover is going to be oil tight,
especially after getting beaten up by the woodruff key. Should I
really be expecting those dust covers to be holding oil up to the
level of the cups? From what I’ve read, it sounds like some members’
lathes do? Or are the felts really just there to dispense the oil in a
measured fashion?
Thanks,
Brad
|
Bill in OKC too
Ken H