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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
开云体育Honest?,Other than wrong diameter, ?I’d use any of the following. 2011, 2024, 6061 or 7075. The first two might be a bit harder to get, but are free machining alloys. 6061 is available everywhere, but can be a bit “gummy”. I love machining 7075, as it chips like steel, gives a great finish, is strong, but it can not be welded, nor anodized -- ? 73 de KG2V Charlie _._,_._,_ |
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 04:10 PM, Dave Matticks wrote:
I am not saying that the countershaft (part # 701-021) in the 3990 lathe (under cabinet drive model) is the same as the countershaft in the earlier 10D and 10F models using countershaft L3-107 but that large Two-step pulley is secured to the shaft the same way - a single set screw at an angle through the pulley hub into a divot drilled into the shaft surface. See the details in the drawings attached. Both the two-step pulley and the four-step pulley are interchangeable across the entire range of 10" and 12" lathes, the countershafts are all 3/4" diameter. The countershaft L3-107 in my older bench-top is 8-3/8 long (per original spec. 4/22/37) while the countershaft 701-021 in my undercabinet drive 101-28990 is only about 7-1/2" long. As this is supported in the middle of it's length with the pulleys on the ends of the shaft it need not be as long as in the older lathe where it is supported on the ends.
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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
开云体育
LoL. I copied the wrong link.?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 4:41 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment ?
[Edited Message Follows] How do you get a 5" diameter pulley out of 2.5" stock? THAT is a trick I'd like to learn!
I'm sorry, but my inner smart-aleck took over there for a moment. You'd need a minimum 5" diameter piece of stock for that pulley, though. 5" length isn't going to do it. I should know, as I've butchered enough parts in my class! Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein) On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:32:45 PM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:
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Here are two pieces. One to mess up on, and one to finish
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of exerpd+groupsio@... <exerpd+groupsio@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:41 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment ?
I guess I should spark another debate.? If I do try to machine this pulley, any suggestions on what aluminum to use?
-- Bruce Varner |
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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
Brad
Andrei, I don't think those are big enough. The drawing calls for 4" and change diameter.? A while ago, I broke a cast iron drive pulley for the table feed of a Hardinge TM mill while tearing it down to rebuild it. I had a new pulley blank 3D printed, and I'm going to send I plan to have it sent to Windy Hill Foundry to have it poured, then do the machining to finish it off. I was originally looking at aluminum, but it's expensive that big and I want it to be as close to original as possible.? Brad On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:32 PM Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:
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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
How do you get a 5" diameter pulley out of 2.5" stock? THAT is a trick I'd like to learn!
I'm sorry, but my inner smart-aleck took over there for a moment. You'd need a minimum 5" diameter piece of stock for that pulley, though. 5" length isn't going to do it. I should know, as I've butchered enough parts in my class! Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein) On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:32:45 PM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:
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Here are two pieces. One to mess up on, and one to finish ?
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? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of exerpd+groupsio@... <exerpd+groupsio@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:41 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment ?
I guess I should spark another debate.? If I do try to machine this pulley, any suggestions on what aluminum to use?
-- Bruce Varner |
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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
开云体育
Here are two pieces. One to mess up on, and one to finish ?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of exerpd+groupsio@... <exerpd+groupsio@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:41 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment ?
I guess I should spark another debate.? If I do try to machine this pulley, any suggestions on what aluminum to use? -- Bruce Varner |
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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
Glenn N
开云体育Did you put the drawing in the files
section for future use?
From:
exerpd+groupsio@...
Sent: Monday,
April 13, 2020, 12:34 PM
Subject:
[atlas-craftsman IO] Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing
Attachment
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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
One of the first responses to this thread was the suggestion to machine the needed pulley myself.? I am posting this response to that suggestion.? May end up building this.? Going to try and find an existing one first, but if that does not produce, may try it.? It would be more complicated than anything I have done on the lathe to this point............
So, I heard back from Tom McNett at Clausing (Thanks Andrei).? He said that the 60-29 pulley is no longer available.? He did however send me the manufactures design diagram for the pulley, in case I decided to machine it myself.? Thought I would post that diagram here for others if interested. -- Bruce Varner |
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
开云体育Unfortunately, we don’t have access to either of the original drawings.? And I either don’t know or don’t remember where the member who drew the motor pulley drawing that we have got his dimensions, either the diameters or the just as critical widths.? And the 2-step countershaft pulley dimensions that we have are much less likely to match the original drawing dimensions exactly.? No one who might have made a motor pulley from the drawing that we have AFAIK has ever commented on how close to the same belt tension in each groove they got with it.? All that I can actually say is that the two pulleys that came with my 3996 seem to give the same belt tension in both grooves.? But the larger pulley that came with the cabinet models is a different part number from the one that you have.? And we have no way of knowing whether the part number changed because the pulley changed or just because someone wanted to get rid of another original Atlas part number. ? About all that we can say is that it was probably the designer’s intention that the belt tensions be the same. ? Robert Downs ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stan Gorodenski
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:13 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished ? Robert, |
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
开云体育Hi Brad,? Just popped mine off for a photo.? It's a 3991, 12x36.? The countershaft has a spotface to accept the set screw that comes in at an angle.? The outboard end is keyed, that's where you would take up end play. Just a set screw driving something just isn't right! Maybe someone replaced the shaft and forgot an important detail.? Dave Matticks? Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Brad <nailm1405@...> Date: 4/12/20 10:03 (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished Robert, There is a key in the motor shaft and pulley, just not on the lower/moveable countershaft. And it’s the 36” model, I just don’t know the numeric model number.? Thanks, Brad On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 3:05 AM Robert Downs via <wa5cab=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
Robert,
This message is going back to my 10F. As I previously said, the tension between the high speed and low speed is markedly different. They are not close. As I said in my last message, I checked the two step? motor pulley and it is to spec. Because I remembered that someone had wrapped what looked like strips of friction tape around one of the steps (probably the high speed step of the motor pulley) I suspect the two step? countershaft pulley might be the problem. However, when I said the two step motor pulley is to spec that was not quite correct. There was a small difference that I cannot believe could be the problem. The low speed pulley of the two step motor pulley is about 0.091" larger in diameter at the low point of the pulley than the drawing in the files section. The drawing has 0.95". Mine measures 1.041". This is only 0.091" larger than the drawing dimension. The v-belt never touches the low point but it would affect the sides. It does not seem possible that this very small amount would make a noticeable difference in tension. In fact, the drawing may also be off due to measurement error. Stan |
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
Brad
Robert, There is a key in the motor shaft and pulley, just not on the lower/moveable countershaft. And it’s the 36” model, I just don’t know the numeric model number.? Thanks, Brad On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 3:05 AM Robert Downs via <wa5cab=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
开云体育I forgot to add that I have approximately the same motor belt tension whether the belt is in the high speed or the low speed pulley grooves.? Perhaps you don’t have an original motor pulley. ? Robert Downs ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 09:45 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished ? I have a 12” Craftsman Commercial, the one on the cabinet style base. I’m not sure of the model number or the year.? ? _._,_._,_ |
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
开云体育Brad, et al, ? That is essentially the same experience that I’ve had with my Atlas 3996 purchased new in 1981.? But I should point out that there should be a square key in the motor shaft and motor pulley.? ? I’ve had no slippage problems but for years had to remember to periodically loosen the set screw, slide the motor pulley back onto the motor shaft and retighten the set screw.? I finally solved the migrating pulley problem with a 5/8” bore split clamp from McMaster.? Since installing it, the pulley has never moved. ? If you want to know what model it is, send me a front view photo and say whether it is a 12x24 or 12x36. ? Robert Downs ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 09:45 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished ? I have a 12” Craftsman Commercial, the one on the cabinet style base. I’m not sure of the model number or the year.? ? When I disengage my belts with the lever, there is enough slack to adjust both the motor belt and the countershaft belt. When the lever is engaged, the belts are not super tight, yet I have never had an issue with slippage from the belts. I achieved this by adjusting the belts in this order: First, I tensioned the belts from the spindle shaft to the upper/stationary countershaft. I locked the four bolts tight on that spindle bearing housing and and I leave them that way. I've never had a problem with the belts taking a set. Second, I tension the upper/lower countershaft belt using the nuts on the engage/disengage lever.? Third, I tensioned the motor to lower/moveable countershaft pulley by adjusting the motor position. This was the most finicky belt to adjust. Too tight and you couldn't remove the belt when disengaged, and too loose and you might get slippage. And, it seems there is a difference in tension depending which position the belt is in, high or low speed. There is a sweet spot right in the middle, and once I got it set, I haven't had a problem yet.? ? The only slippage I have had is between the lower/moveable countershaft and the motor pulley that is on it on the inside The pulley is not keyed to the shaft, but only secured with a grub screw. I'm assuming this to provide a safety factor in case you over torque the machine. My machine started slipping the other day and I discovered that the shaft has a pretty good groove worn into it. Future repair. For now, the grub screw was retightened and I was back in business.? ? The bigger problem I've had is trying to get oil to the bronze sleeve for the lower/moveable countershaft. It is behind the large pulley, and trying to get the oil cup open and the spout of an oil can in there is a real pain. I'm thinking about piping it out away from the bushing housing, but I just haven't done it yet.? ? Hope this helps.? ? Brad ? _._,_ |
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
Brad
I have a 12” Craftsman Commercial, the one on the cabinet style base. I’m not sure of the model number or the year.? When I disengage my belts with the lever, there is enough slack to adjust both the motor belt and the countershaft belt. When the lever is engaged, the belts are not super tight, yet I have never had an issue with slippage from the belts. I achieved this by adjusting the belts in this order: First, I tensioned the belts from the spindle shaft to the upper/stationary countershaft. I locked the four bolts tight on that spindle bearing housing and and I leave them that way. I've never had a problem with the belts taking a set. Second, I tension the upper/lower countershaft belt using the nuts on the engage/disengage lever.? Third, I tensioned the motor to lower/moveable countershaft pulley by adjusting the motor position. This was the most finicky belt to adjust. Too tight and you couldn't remove the belt when disengaged, and too loose and you might get slippage. And, it seems there is a difference in tension depending which position the belt is in, high or low speed. There is a sweet spot right in the middle, and once I got it set, I haven't had a problem yet.? The only slippage I have had is between the lower/moveable countershaft and the motor pulley that is on it on the inside. The pulley is not keyed to the shaft, but only secured with a grub screw. I'm assuming this to provide a safety factor in case you over torque the machine. My machine started slipping the other day and I discovered that the shaft has a pretty good groove worn into it. Future repair. For now, the grub screw was retightened and I was back in business.? The bigger problem I've had is trying to get oil to the bronze sleeve for the lower/moveable countershaft. It is behind the large pulley, and trying to get the oil cup open and the spout of an oil can in there is a real pain. I'm thinking about piping it out away from the bushing housing, but I just haven't done it yet.? Hope this helps.? Brad Brad On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 3:19 AM Robert Downs via <wa5cab=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
Rick
Or one could do what I did.? Replaced the motor with a dc motor and drive.
Now when tapping I also have reverse.? Only time I need to change the belt position is when I am using a hole saw. I do understand attempting to keep the drill press stock.? I appreciate old tools just like most of us. However, modern electronics have added usefulness the original designers never dreamed of. Rick |
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Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished
开云体育OK.? As far as I can tell from the two or three photos that we have of it, the first version of the Atlas 618 and the Craftsman badged 3/8: bed 12” are a special case.? There appears to be no options as to how or where the countershaft bracket and the motor base are mounted.? The same statement is apparently true (except for the slots in the motor base) of the countershaft bracket on the early 10” with vertical countershaft and of the motor bases when the lathe is mounted on the factory supplied legs. ? The same also appears to be true of the 3/8” bed 12” models.? What I don’t know because I’ve never had my hands on one to check is whether on the early Craftsman 12” if you first tension the spindle belt and then tension the motor belt and tighten the locking lever, releasing the belt tension rod alone slackens the motor belt enough to allow you to change which steps the motor belt is running in.? Maybe you do have to loosen the lock nut lever and lift the motor to change the motor belt.? But I will say as I have said before that anyone who depends only upon the weight of the motor to determine the motor belt tension is just asking for trouble. ? Robert Downs ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mondosmetals
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 23:15 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Belt Tensioning (was [atlas-craftsman IO] Finish Cut - Finished ? On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 03:31 AM, Robert Downs wrote: With the exception of the two spindle belts on the late 12” cabinet models, all of the Atlas built metal working lathes were originally designed so that if the motor was mounted in the proper location, slackening the belt tension lever or rod loosened both belts for changing spindle speeds. Not entirely correct, depending on how one chooses to define "proper location." Models on which the countershaft bracket L3-20 (with motor base 9-22 or 9-22A) is mounted directly to the back of the lathe bed the motor belt tension is fixed separately from the countershaft-to-spindle belt tension. Please refer to the illustration attached. This illustration was clipped from the operation and parts manual for Craftsman 101.07403 model lathes. |
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Re: Need Pulley for Craftsman Speed-Reducing Attachment
I was not going to invest any more time on this list, but another member contacted me off list with a question and my interest was peaked so I will add what I Know to be true which may or may not be helpful to you.
The pulley number is correct as supplied by Atlas. This was the number which was used on machines that were produced for Sears and bagded Craftsman by Atlas. Atlas began supplying the drill presses to sears in 1934. I don't know what the 500 signifies in the part number but it may be a series # specified by Atlas? the 4s will signify that it is 4 sheave, the B will signify a B series belt and the 103 signifies that it was used on any of the Craftsman 103 series of machines. ?There appear to be various bore sizes with this same part # , I find 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4 there may be others. I hope this helps you. Dan has left the building. |
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Re: Issue Facing Rectangular Bar Stock on the Lathe
Without reading all the other 42 responses I think you need to watch the chips coming off the material. As the cutting edge begins to dull the chips change their characteristics. If you watch the chips they will tell you when it is time to stop and make an adjustment or resharpen the bit.
Raymond |