?

?

?

It is a pdf copy downloaded from scribd.com, so there is no telling if it's complete. That particular page is not actually numbered. The following page is 48, and 49 is the chart with all the speeds shown that matches the page 49 in my 10F MOLO.

Copyright date is 1937, so not much help there.

Bill in OKC
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 2/17/19, Robert Downs via Groups.Io <wa5cab@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Not Convinced
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, February 17, 2019, 3:01 PM

Bill,
?The Atlas MOLO with Copyright 1937 printed on the
Copyright Page was reprinted 14 time (according to Atlas)
between 1938 and 1953.? There were at least seven and maybe
eight versions over that period. ?Two versions were
apparently printed most years (10” and 12”).? At least
one year, they also printed one in which Part 7 – Thread
Cutting covers the 618.? I’m still looking for one that
covers the 101.07301.? Over the years, some new ?photos
came and went.? There were some additions, deletions or
changes in the text.? And the pagination changed a couple
of times.?
?I have around 20 copies of the MOLO from a blue
cover Second Edition through to both versions of the 1988
edition.? In 1968, they deleted two pages (one sheet) early
in the book.? And the page number following the
“Machining of Materials” tab changed from 47 to 45.?
But aside from that, every copy that I have has the
equipment speed chart on the first page after the tab, which
is either 47 or 45.? If yours doesn’t, are you sure that
there isn’t a sheet missing?
? ?Robert
Downs ?From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 00:10
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Not
Convinced
?Larry,
that is essentially the chart that I described on page 47 in
the manual for my 10F/TH42. There is no chart like that in
the Sears Master Craftsman manual I have. Page 47 in that
book is blank except for "Part 4 The Machining of
Various Materials ?HTH! ?Bill in OKC

?

?

Becareful , even with the motor mounted low the lathe is very top
heavy and easy to turn over if not bolted down.



Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Stan Gorodenski <stanlep@...>
Date: 2/17/19 12:05 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Not Convinced

Thanks, Carvel. Yes, I knew the countershaft arrangement is homemade. It
is because of this that I am going to have to redo what he did to make
room for the back gears when I get them (which should arrive in a few
days). In the process I am thinking of trying to get back to 16 speeds,
in a homemade manner but it won't be easy to do, at least for me. One
solution is to buy some of the parts on ebay, brackets and all, but at
this point I am not sure I would be getting everything I need. As
someone mentioned, he doesn't envy me trying to restore it. I do not
either and am not sure just how far I want to go.

Thanks for the link. Those are sure beautiful machines. I see now Atlas
had mounted the countershaft arrangement up high and close to the lathe
and the motor down low and close to the lathe, I assume to reduce the
torque from so much weight hanging out the back end.
Stan

On 2/17/2019 12:27 AM, cwlathes wrote:


Stan ,

The countershaft arrangement in your picture is also homemade . . .

Please have a look at the following link . . . . .



This shows very nicely two lathes with two different countershafts
that were available . . .

The first is an earlier ?“10D” with a one piece carriage , and a
vertical countershaft ( which was also available for the 10F)

The second is a “10F” with two piece carriage ( separate apron) , and
a horizontal countershaft . . .

You will also note the that the pulley arrangements were to all
intents and purposes the same as the badge which has been posted on
this thread . .

Hope this helps ,

Carvel

*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
*On Behalf Of *Stan Gorodenski
*Sent:* 17 February 2019 01:14 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Not Convinced

Forgot to attach. Here it is.

On 2/16/2019 3:55 PM, Stan Gorodenski wrote:

I am not convinced my 10F lathe originally had 16 speeds. Robert had
estimated its vintage is about 1953 or 1954. As? I mentioned in a
previous email message my lathe is a real frankenstein. I did not
realize the back gear, the bull gear, the gear attached to the spindle
pulley assembly, and the collar were all gone until many years later.
Other significant changes were made, including discarding the original
brackets for the motor.

However, I feel pretty certain my friend (who died about 3 years ago)
used the original pulleys of what I think is called the
counterbalance.
Attached is an image of it. It looks original to me and you can
see the
large pulley (that the belt from the motor is attached to) is just one
pulley, not two side by side. The images in the document called "Atlas
Parts list for 10"-F Series Atlas Lathes" also show the large power
pulley being just one pulley, not composed to two side by side.
All this
tells me that my lathe originally came out as an 8 speed lathe,
not a 16.

I don't know if the original motor was kept while it was being
frankensteinized, but the motor it has turns at 1725 RPM.

I am in the process of trying to get it back to the original 8
speed. I
ordered and am getting the back gears, the bull gear, the small
spindle
gear, and the collar behind the small gear. I have the manual my
friend
gave me when I bought the lathe. It is pretty beat up and I think
it is
supposed to be the manual for my lathe, but it describes the 12"
and 6",
not the 10". Therefore, I do not know what the maximum direct drive
spindle rpm for my lathe is supposed to be. From what I read, it
is the
surface speed, not RPM of the spindle, that is important in for
machining various metals. The circumference of a 12" swing for the 12"
lathe is 37.7". For my 10" lathe it is 31.42". The 12" swing covers a
distance of 37.7" in one revolution of the spindle, but for my
lathe it
only covers 31.42". Therefore, the spindle rpm for my lathe has to be
increased by 37/7/31.42. The max direct rpm for the 12" is 2072 and so
this means the direct drive rpm for my 10" has to be? 2486 for the
surface speeds to be equal between the two swings (the 12" and the
10").

2486 seems to be too fast an rpm for my 10" lathe. Is this correct"?
Stan

You are correct in saying that the surface speed is important when
machining on a lathe.? But surface speed depends upon spindle RPM and
diameter of the part.? It has nothing to do with what the swing of the
lathe is, other than that you obviously can’t machine a part larger in
diameter than the swing.? You need to get a copy of the Atlas Manual
of Lathe Operations (MOLO) that matches the 10F.? Download and read
the MOLO history and version selection document from Files.? Prior to
1954, you can’t tell the version from information on the Copyright
page because all 15 Editions just say Copyright 1937.

There is a diameter versus RPM versus SFM chart in the MOLO.

Robert Downs

*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
*On Behalf Of *Stan Gorodenski
*Sent:* Saturday, February 16, 2019 17:14
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Not Convinced


Therefore, the spindle rpm for my lathe has to be
increased by 37/7/31.42. The max direct rpm for the 12" is 2072 and so
this means the direct drive rpm for my 10" has to be? 2486 for the
surface speeds to be equal between the two swings (the 12" and the 10")

2486 seems to be too fast an rpm for my 10" lathe. Is this correct"?
Stan

Stan ,

The countershaft arrangement in your picture is also homemade . . .

Please have a look at the following link . . . . .



This shows very nicely two lathes with two different countershafts
that were available . . .

The first is an earlier ?“10D” with a one piece carriage , and a
vertical countershaft ( which was also available for the 10F)

The second is a “10F” with two piece carriage ( separate apron) , and
a horizontal countershaft . . .

You will also note the that the pulley arrangements were to all
intents and purposes the same as the badge which has been posted on
this thread . .

Hope this helps ,

Carvel

*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
*On Behalf Of *Stan Gorodenski
*Sent:* 17 February 2019 01:14 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Not Convinced

Forgot to attach. Here it is.

On 2/16/2019 3:55 PM, Stan Gorodenski wrote:

I am not convinced my 10F lathe originally had 16 speeds. Robert had
estimated its vintage is about 1953 or 1954. As? I mentioned in a
previous email message my lathe is a real frankenstein. I did not
realize the back gear, the bull gear, the gear attached to the spindle
pulley assembly, and the collar were all gone until many years later.
Other significant changes were made, including discarding the original
brackets for the motor.

However, I feel pretty certain my friend (who died about 3 years ago)
used the original pulleys of what I think is called the counterbalance.
Attached is an image of it. It looks original to me and you can see the
large pulley (that the belt from the motor is attached to) is just one
pulley, not two side by side. The images in the document called "Atlas
Parts list for 10"-F Series Atlas Lathes" also show the large power
pulley being just one pulley, not composed to two side by side. All this
tells me that my lathe originally came out as an 8 speed lathe, not a 16.

I don't know if the original motor was kept while it was being
frankensteinized, but the motor it has turns at 1725 RPM.

I am in the process of trying to get it back to the original 8 speed. I
ordered and am getting the back gears, the bull gear, the small spindle
gear, and the collar behind the small gear. I have the manual my friend
gave me when I bought the lathe. It is pretty beat up and I think it is
supposed to be the manual for my lathe, but it describes the 12" and 6",
not the 10". Therefore, I do not know what the maximum direct drive
spindle rpm for my lathe is supposed to be. From what I read, it is the
surface speed, not RPM of the spindle, that is important in for
machining various metals. The circumference of a 12" swing for the 12"
lathe is 37.7". For my 10" lathe it is 31.42". The 12" swing covers a
distance of 37.7" in one revolution of the spindle, but for my lathe it
only covers 31.42". Therefore, the spindle rpm for my lathe has to be
increased by 37/7/31.42. The max direct rpm for the 12" is 2072 and so
this means the direct drive rpm for my 10" has to be? 2486 for the
surface speeds to be equal between the two swings (the 12" and the 10").

2486 seems to be too fast an rpm for my 10" lathe. Is this correct"?
Stan

?

Robert and friends,

?

I would just like to point out that this is only valid for the original Atlas “Home Market”? ( smile )

A four pole motor will run at 1750 rpm on a 60Hz ( c/s) supply as found in North America , but for the majority of the rest of the world with 50Hz (c/s) supplies , the motors run at 1500 rpm ( no load ) and around 1425rpm under full load

With my Austrian Maximat lathe the motor / headstock pulley combination comes out in two sizes for either 50Hz or 60Hz supplies . . .?

Enjoy your day ,

?

Carvel

?

?

The Atlas 10” and Atlas built 12” came with the same 16 RPM list.? As I said before, what surface speed you need to be running depends upon three things – diameter of the work piece, material and sometimes heat treat condition ?of the work piece, and composition or type of cutter.? Swing of the lathe is never in the equation because you can’t swing a part that is larger than the lathe.

?

The 16 nominal speeds that all 10” and 12” Atlas machines will do are:

?

2072

1270

805

685

500

418

345

266

211

164

134

112

83

70

45

28

?

I think that the chart was originally based on a motor with an average RPM of 1725.? 1740 and 1750 are more commonly quoted today but the difference is only 1.5%.

?

The surface speed chart in the MOLO actually gives the nearest standard available speeds

?

?

?

Robert Downs

?

?

However, aside from an argument of how to determine surface speed or
equate rpm to surface speed, the main point of my post was to find out
what the max rpm, as it came from the factory, is for my lathe. It had
to have come out with this max rpm, whatever it may have been, for a
reason. So, what was the max rpm as it came out from the factory? Does
anyone know? 2486 seems too high to me.

?

?

The badge didn't come with the lathe I have. Maybe it got trashed
somehow over the years. The beat up manual I have that is supposed to be
for the lathe, at least I thought so, has this image, but it is for a 12".
Stan

On 2/16/2019 7:47 PM, Larry Hoelscher wrote:

Here is the badge that came with the lathe.? It should also appear in
your lathe manual.

On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 8:14 PM Stan Gorodenski <stanlep@...
<mailto:stanlep@...>> wrote:

On 2/16/2019 6:20 PM, David Beierl wrote:


Top speed of the 618 is about 3600 rpm.? Again, it's for
small-diameter work that you want the higher speeds.

Hmmm. I guess you are right. I was approaching it from the the other
direction. I this case there would be no reason for the max
spindle rpm
of the 10" to be higher than that of the 12". I'm not familiar
with all
this terminology - what is the 618?
Stan



Yrs,
d