I now realize, from catalogue pages someone privately emailed me, that
although the speeds given in the beat up manual I have are for a 12"
they are also the speeds for a 10F. So, my confusion is cleared up. It
came from the factory with 16 speed and the speeds are the same as those
listed for the 12". When I see these old catalogues, I think how nice it
would be to be able to go back in time to buy one.
Stan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/16/2019 8:52 PM, Stan Gorodenski wrote: The badge didn't come with the lathe I have. Maybe it got trashed
somehow over the years. The beat up manual I have that is supposed to be
for the lathe, at least I thought so, has this image, but it is for a 12".
Stan
On 2/16/2019 7:47 PM, Larry Hoelscher wrote:
Here is the badge that came with the lathe.? It should also appear in
your lathe manual.
On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 8:14 PM Stan Gorodenski
<stanlep@...
<mailto:stanlep@...>> wrote:
On 2/16/2019 6:20 PM, David Beierl wrote:
Top speed of the 618 is about 3600 rpm.? Again, it's for
small-diameter work that you want the higher speeds.
Hmmm. I guess you are right. I was approaching it from the the other
direction. I this case there would be no reason for the max
spindle rpm
of the 10" to be higher than that of the 12". I'm not familiar
with all
this terminology - what is the 618?
Stan
Yrs,
d
|
The badge didn't come with the lathe I have. Maybe it got trashed
somehow over the years. The beat up manual I have that is supposed to be
for the lathe, at least I thought so, has this image, but it is for a 12".
Stan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/16/2019 7:47 PM, Larry Hoelscher wrote: Here is the badge that came with the lathe.? It should also appear in
your lathe manual.
On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 8:14 PM Stan Gorodenski <stanlep@...
<mailto:stanlep@...>> wrote:
On 2/16/2019 6:20 PM, David Beierl wrote:
Top speed of the 618 is about 3600 rpm.? Again, it's for
small-diameter work that you want the higher speeds.
Hmmm. I guess you are right. I was approaching it from the the other
direction. I this case there would be no reason for the max
spindle rpm
of the 10" to be higher than that of the 12". I'm not familiar
with all
this terminology - what is the 618?
Stan
Yrs,
d
|
I'm not familiar with all?
this terminology - what is the 618??
Sorry -- 618 was their six by eighteen inch lathe.? Minimum speed in back gear 54 rpm.? I have my grandfather's, delivered in '40 (or maybe '41?? Robert knows because I used to have the delivery papers and told him about them).?
Yrs, d ?
|
Here is the badge that came with the lathe.? It should also appear in your lathe manual.
On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 8:14 PM Stan Gorodenski < stanlep@...> wrote: On 2/16/2019 6:20 PM, David Beierl wrote:
Top speed of the 618 is about 3600 rpm.? Again, it's for
small-diameter work that you want the higher speeds.
Hmmm. I guess you are right. I was approaching it from the the other
direction. I this case there would be no reason for the max spindle rpm
of the 10" to be higher than that of the 12". I'm not familiar with all
this terminology - what is the 618?
Stan
Yrs,
d
|
On 2/16/2019 6:20 PM, David Beierl wrote:
Top speed of the 618 is about 3600 rpm.? Again, it's for
small-diameter work that you want the higher speeds.
Hmmm. I guess you are right. I was approaching it from the the other direction. I this case there would be no reason for the max spindle rpm of the 10" to be higher than that of the 12". I'm not familiar with all this terminology - what is the 618? Stan
Yrs,
d
|
Jon,
Thanks. From your response one would conclude that my lathe was a 16
speed. However, how does one reconcile the images in the Atlas parts
list? As I mentioned, the images look like the pulley (what I call the
power pulley) that goes to the motor is just one pulley, not two side by
side. I suppose my friend could have used the 4 pulley assembly but
swapped out the original double power pulley for just one pulley, but,
again, there are the parts drawings in the parts list that show a single
pulley.
Stan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/16/2019 5:56 PM, Jon Elson wrote: On 02/16/2019 04:55 PM, Stan Gorodenski wrote:
I am not convinced my 10F lathe originally had 16 speeds.
Robert had
estimated its vintage is about 1953 or 1954.
Well, all 10 and 12" Atlas and Craftsman lathes I've
encountered had basically the same setup.
A belt with 2 positions from motor to countershaft, and then
a 4-position belt from countershaft to cone pulley on the
spindle. That gives 8 speeds. Then, you have the back gear,
so now that gives 16 speeds.
Jon
|
However, aside from an argument of how to determine surface speed or?
equate rpm to surface speed, the main point of my post was to find out?
what the max rpm, as it came from the factory, is for my lathe. It had?
to have come out with this max rpm, whatever it may have been, for a?
reason. So, what was the max rpm as it came out from the factory? Does?
anyone know? 2486 seems too high to me.?
Top speed of the 618 is about 3600 rpm.? Again, it's for small-diameter work that you want the higher speeds.?
Yrs, d ?
|
On 02/16/2019 04:55 PM, Stan Gorodenski wrote: I am not convinced my 10F lathe originally had 16 speeds.
Robert had
estimated its vintage is about 1953 or 1954. Well, all 10 and 12" Atlas and Craftsman lathes I've encountered had basically the same setup. A belt with 2 positions from motor to countershaft, and then a 4-position belt from countershaft to cone pulley on the spindle. That gives 8 speeds. Then, you have the back gear, so now that gives 16 speeds. Jon
|
I think we all agree because I did take into account surface speed if
you read my email. I am assuming the max rpm was set by Atlas to
whatever it is by some considerations that have to do with possible
surface speeds one might encounter. I don't think they just randomly
selected a max rpm. Therefore, if Atlas had determined, which seems
reasonable, that the max rpm for the 12" lathe is related to the max
surface speed one might need, then to get an equivalent rpm for the 10"
should be what I had suggested.
However, aside from an argument of how to determine surface speed or
equate rpm to surface speed, the main point of my post was to find out
what the max rpm, as it came from the factory, is for my lathe. It had
to have come out with this max rpm, whatever it may have been, for a
reason. So, what was the max rpm as it came out from the factory? Does
anyone know? 2486 seems too high to me.
Also, can anyone confirm that the number of speeds for my lathe was 8 as
it came from the factory, not 16? I think it was 8 based on what I said
in my previous post and the image I had attached.
Stan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/16/2019 5:22 PM, Dave Matticks wrote: Surface speed for cutting is only related to rpm whether turning,
milling, drilling, grinding, whatever.
Easy to remember formula: 3.82¡Á desired surface feet per minute ¡Â
diameter of whatever is rotating = rpm.
Doesn't need to be perfect, always exceptions. It's a start though.
Tool and workpiece material dictate what could work.
Dave Matticks
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
|
Surface speed for cutting is only related to rpm whether turning, milling, drilling, grinding, whatever.? Easy to remember formula: 3.82¡Á desired surface feet per minute ¡Â diameter of whatever is rotating = rpm. Doesn't need to be perfect, always exceptions. It's a start though.? Tool and workpiece material dictate what could work.? Dave Matticks?
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
|
The circumference of a 12" swing for the 12"?
lathe is 37.7". For my 10" lathe it is 31.42". The 12" swing covers a?
distance of 37.7" in one revolution of the spindle, but for my lathe it?
only covers 31.42". Therefore, the spindle rpm for my lathe has to be?
increased by 37/7/31.42.?
The speed that matters is the surface speed of the particular piece you're working on, not of the lathe's capacity.? So the issue at the large end is can it run slow enough and at the small end can it run fast enough; with "slow enough" being a controlling limit to the maximum size of a particular material/tool combination.
Yrs, d? ?
|
Forgot to attach. Here it is.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/16/2019 3:55 PM, Stan Gorodenski wrote: I am not convinced my 10F lathe originally had 16 speeds. Robert had
estimated its vintage is about 1953 or 1954. As? I mentioned in a
previous email message my lathe is a real frankenstein. I did not
realize the back gear, the bull gear, the gear attached to the spindle
pulley assembly, and the collar were all gone until many years later.
Other significant changes were made, including discarding the original
brackets for the motor.
However, I feel pretty certain my friend (who died about 3 years ago)
used the original pulleys of what I think is called the counterbalance.
Attached is an image of it. It looks original to me and you can see the
large pulley (that the belt from the motor is attached to) is just one
pulley, not two side by side. The images in the document called "Atlas
Parts list for 10"-F Series Atlas Lathes" also show the large power
pulley being just one pulley, not composed to two side by side. All this
tells me that my lathe originally came out as an 8 speed lathe, not a 16.
I don't know if the original motor was kept while it was being
frankensteinized, but the motor it has turns at 1725 RPM.
I am in the process of trying to get it back to the original 8 speed. I
ordered and am getting the back gears, the bull gear, the small spindle
gear, and the collar behind the small gear. I have the manual my friend
gave me when I bought the lathe. It is pretty beat up and I think it is
supposed to be the manual for my lathe, but it describes the 12" and 6",
not the 10". Therefore, I do not know what the maximum direct drive
spindle rpm for my lathe is supposed to be. From what I read, it is the
surface speed, not RPM of the spindle, that is important in for
machining various metals. The circumference of a 12" swing for the 12"
lathe is 37.7". For my 10" lathe it is 31.42". The 12" swing covers a
distance of 37.7" in one revolution of the spindle, but for my lathe it
only covers 31.42". Therefore, the spindle rpm for my lathe has to be
increased by 37/7/31.42. The max direct rpm for the 12" is 2072 and so
this means the direct drive rpm for my 10" has to be? 2486 for the
surface speeds to be equal between the two swings (the 12" and the 10").
2486 seems to be too fast an rpm for my 10" lathe. Is this correct"?
Stan
|
I am not convinced my 10F lathe originally had 16 speeds. Robert had
estimated its vintage is about 1953 or 1954. As? I mentioned in a
previous email message my lathe is a real frankenstein. I did not
realize the back gear, the bull gear, the gear attached to the spindle
pulley assembly, and the collar were all gone until many years later.
Other significant changes were made, including discarding the original
brackets for the motor.
However, I feel pretty certain my friend (who died about 3 years ago)
used the original pulleys of what I think is called the counterbalance.
Attached is an image of it. It looks original to me and you can see the
large pulley (that the belt from the motor is attached to) is just one
pulley, not two side by side. The images in the document called "Atlas
Parts list for 10"-F Series Atlas Lathes" also show the large power
pulley being just one pulley, not composed to two side by side. All this
tells me that my lathe originally came out as an 8 speed lathe, not a 16.
I don't know if the original motor was kept while it was being
frankensteinized, but the motor it has turns at 1725 RPM.
I am in the process of trying to get it back to the original 8 speed. I
ordered and am getting the back gears, the bull gear, the small spindle
gear, and the collar behind the small gear. I have the manual my friend
gave me when I bought the lathe. It is pretty beat up and I think it is
supposed to be the manual for my lathe, but it describes the 12" and 6",
not the 10". Therefore, I do not know what the maximum direct drive
spindle rpm for my lathe is supposed to be. From what I read, it is the
surface speed, not RPM of the spindle, that is important in for
machining various metals. The circumference of a 12" swing for the 12"
lathe is 37.7". For my 10" lathe it is 31.42". The 12" swing covers a
distance of 37.7" in one revolution of the spindle, but for my lathe it
only covers 31.42". Therefore, the spindle rpm for my lathe has to be
increased by 37/7/31.42. The max direct rpm for the 12" is 2072 and so
this means the direct drive rpm for my 10" has to be? 2486 for the
surface speeds to be equal between the two swings (the 12" and the 10").
2486 seems to be too fast an rpm for my 10" lathe. Is this correct"?
Stan
|
Re: Atlas MF horizontal mill, power feed gears
My printer is only capable of printing 8.5 X 11 sheets.
Thanks.
|
Originally, the nameplate was on the rear of the bed and the serial number, sometimes with prefix or suffix letters, was stamped into the top of the front way near the right end.? I am trying to pin down about when that changed, and whether the changes partially overlapped.? Note that AFAIK, the stamped serial numbers did not have any leading zeros but the ones on the nameplates did. ? Robert Downs ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Guenther Paul
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 07:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] 10F lathe? Look on the tail stock end of the bed there is a plate it will tell what you have? On Saturday, February 16, 2019, 1:57:31 AM EST, Robert Downs via Groups.Io <wa5cab@...> wrote: I don¡¯t have a 10¡± of any vintage, but if you are relatively certain that the bed is the original one, then Serial Number above about 009000.? I say About because we have a gap from a 10D @ 008635 and a 10F @ 009552.? The other significant differences between the two (3/4¡± dia. lead screw, 2-piece carriage, power cross feed, etc.) are common upgrades.? The tailstocks are also different, but we don¡¯t know for certain that the change over coincided exactly with the model change.? And of course, it¡¯s an easy swap.? The headstock changed in 1942 and most 10F¡¯s will have the newer one.? But not all.? And judging by what happened with the MK2, all of the changes probably didn¡¯t happen on the same day. ? Robert Downs ? ? Does anyone in this group have a 10F lathe in the configuration as it
was originally sold? I guess the catch is how does one know it is a 10F?
I wouldn't have known my Atlas is a 10F were it not for being told it is
one.
Stan
|
Atlas 10F And Craftsman Survey for Serial Number & Nameplate Locations
If you have an Atlas 10F or Craftsman 101.07362, 101.07382 or 101.07402 or 101.07363, 101.07383 or 101.07403 and it was made in or prior to about 1945, please reply direct to wa5cab@... with the following: ? Serial Number Model Number Bed Length Bearing dates (if known) Location of nameplate (rear of bed of right end of bed) Location of serial number (right end of front way or nameplate or both) ? If nameplate is missing, please report location of nameplate mounting screw holes and any of the other requested information that you know. ? Robert Downs ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Guenther Paul
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 07:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] 10F lathe? Look on the tail stock end of the bed there is a plate it will tell what you have? On Saturday, February 16, 2019, 1:57:31 AM EST, Robert Downs via Groups.Io <wa5cab@...> wrote: I don¡¯t have a 10¡± of any vintage, but if you are relatively certain that the bed is the original one, then Serial Number above about 009000.? I say About because we have a gap from a 10D @ 008635 and a 10F @ 009552.? The other significant differences between the two (3/4¡± dia. lead screw, 2-piece carriage, power cross feed, etc.) are common upgrades.? The tailstocks are also different, but we don¡¯t know for certain that the change over coincided exactly with the model change.? And of course, it¡¯s an easy swap.? The headstock changed in 1942 and most 10F¡¯s will have the newer one.? But not all.? And judging by what happened with the MK2, all of the changes probably didn¡¯t happen on the same day. ? Robert Downs ? ? Does anyone in this group have a 10F lathe in the configuration as it
was originally sold? I guess the catch is how does one know it is a 10F?
I wouldn't have known my Atlas is a 10F were it not for being told it is
one.
Stan
|
I own three metal lathes, a South Bend 9 inch and two 618 lathes, one Atlas and one Craftsman.? I have read dozens of articles of DRO retrofits and have purchased inexpensive aluminum scaled LCD readouts for both. ? However I have never installed the? readouts because every time I start I don't like the locations available, how it will have to attach to the surfaces, etc.? In the course of several starts and stops on permanent installation, I made several very inexpensive temporary tools I would like to share.
These readouts are made from digital tire tread readouts that you can buy for under $10 each.? They use lithium batteries that can be bought at Dollar Tree stores for $0.50 each and the batteries last a long time.? I made my first in under an hour and it was so handy I have made several more for lathes and I also use one on my table saw and planer in my wood shop.? As the photos show, I cut the ears off, epoxied on several small magnets on the body, and made a magnetic end piece.? Not obvious is after removing the factory label I disassembled the unit and carefully sanded the surfaces causing friction on the sliding piece to have almost no friction and re assembled.? I epoxied the blade from a razor utility knife to body along with 8 small thin magnets.? I epoxied another small magnet to the end of a small piece of brass hobby tubing for the end of the movable slide.? In the version shown, I ground down the plastic to lightly slip fit the brass tubing.? I bought the small magnets for a few dollars on ebay.
This has turned out to be very handy and I use them all the time.
Dallas
|
Re: glass scales for atlas 12" lathe #3986
I am going to do this on my 12x36, I need pictures!!
Thanks,
Ralph
On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 10:42 PM Chris Fulmer < caf1182@...> wrote: The normal method is to flip it so the long peice is mounted to the cross slide and the read head is in between the ¡®horns¡¯. More space and less movement of the cable.
Also add a bolt or other stop block so that it doesn¡¯t get smashed into the tail stock.
Chris f
|
Look on the tail stock end of the bed there is a plate it will tell what you have?
GP
On Saturday, February 16, 2019, 1:57:31 AM EST, Robert Downs via Groups.Io <wa5cab@...> wrote:
I don¡¯t have a 10¡± of any vintage, but if you are relatively certain that the bed is the original one, then Serial Number above about 009000.? I say About because we have a gap from a 10D @ 008635 and a 10F @ 009552.? The other significant differences between the two (3/4¡± dia. lead screw, 2-piece carriage, power cross feed, etc.) are common upgrades.? The tailstocks are also different, but we don¡¯t know for certain that the change over coincided exactly with the model change.? And of course, it¡¯s an easy swap.? The headstock changed in 1942 and most 10F¡¯s will have the newer one.? But not all.? And judging by what happened with the MK2, all of the changes probably didn¡¯t happen on the same day. ? Robert Downs ?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stan Gorodenski
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 22:35
To: [email protected]
Subject: [atlas-craftsman IO] 10F lathe ? Does anyone in this group have a 10F lathe in the configuration as it
was originally sold? I guess the catch is how does one know it is a 10F?
I wouldn't have known my Atlas is a 10F were it not for being told it is
one.
Stan
|
I don¡¯t have a 10¡± of any vintage, but if you are relatively certain that the bed is the original one, then Serial Number above about 009000.? I say About because we have a gap from a 10D @ 008635 and a 10F @ 009552.? The other significant differences between the two (3/4¡± dia. lead screw, 2-piece carriage, power cross feed, etc.) are common upgrades.? The tailstocks are also different, but we don¡¯t know for certain that the change over coincided exactly with the model change.? And of course, it¡¯s an easy swap.? The headstock changed in 1942 and most 10F¡¯s will have the newer one.? But not all.? And judging by what happened with the MK2, all of the changes probably didn¡¯t happen on the same day. ? Robert Downs ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stan Gorodenski
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 22:35
To: [email protected]
Subject: [atlas-craftsman IO] 10F lathe? Does anyone in this group have a 10F lathe in the configuration as it
was originally sold? I guess the catch is how does one know it is a 10F?
I wouldn't have known my Atlas is a 10F were it not for being told it is
one.
Stan
|
Stan Gorodenski