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Re: Royal live center
开云体育Hope I didn't bite myself in the ass today! Picked up a 6A2C CBN wheel from? Shars this afternoon.? Store price was $115.00, eBay price was? ?$89.91. Gave the store a call after the eBay number didn't answer even though it's the same place! They honored it though.? It's typical Chinese looking but at least the hole is pretty close to size and thickness is pretty parallel so I can clean that up. Screw holes on the other hand....... .42 diameter thru with a crappy c'sink for a 1/4-20 flat head screw, the heads on the screws are only around? .485! I'll drill a new set at 45° from them. Maybe use the existing ones for balancing plugs or just plug and face flush?? Going to see limited use in the basement so if the abrasive works ok I'll be good.? Already have a diamond wheel on the left.? Dave? Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device 开云体育-------- Original message -------- From: Andrei <calciu1@...> Date: 1/7/19 11:09 (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Royal live center
Carvel is right. You can get great things made in China, if you want to pay the premium for quality. Remember, your iPhone is made in China. The computer you are using is made in China, etc. You get what you pay for, at the higher end, and you get garbage at
the low end. The Chinese are instinctively geared towards reducing cost to the minimum without any regard to quality, unless you bring your standards to the plant and keep them in line.?
I worked for a company that used to import things from China. As soon as you relaxed your vigilance, garbage would come out of the assembly line because they would try to save a penny here and there by substituting the cheapest raw materials and supplies they
could get that day.?
But if you are on top of your supplier, you can really get good stuff delivered. This is also true for India and other "manufacturing" nations out there.?
As consumers, we have more of a Russian Roulette experience as we only want onsies or twosies, but if you buy from the larger importers like Shars, Little Machine Shop, Matthews Precision, your chances of getting good product go up and you always have a recourse
for a return and replacement if you strike out.?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of cwlathes <carvelw@...>
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 12:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Royal live center ?
For interest the best / truest / tightest 3 jaw chuck I own was made in China , and outperforms my “reference” hardly used Pratt B , and cost me less than replacement jaws for the other Pratt B . . . .
? Regards, ? Carvel ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of David Beierl ?
? But that's because they're crap, not because they're Chinese.? If we want good tools and are willing to pay for them the Chinese will sell them to us.? If we want cheap tools, the Chinese will sell them to us.? ?If we don't care they'll sell us cheap ones -- they seem spring-loaded in that direction. ? Yrs, d
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe
Thanks! In my universe, always a consideration!?? Bill in Boulder
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
CO USA On 1/7/19 12:06 PM, Ralph Hulslander wrote:
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Re: Royal live center
开云体育It's the first time it's been opened in over 50 years, I? could have it apart in 5 minutes this way. Thanks anyway,? Dave? Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Dan and Marlene Coleman <dan_marlene@...> Date: 1/7/19 15:05 (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Royal live center I think I would drill a 3/16 clearance hole through the shaft while I had it apart so I could knock out the center with a long drift or piece of drill rod in the future.? Newer centers used for woodworking are now made that way so centers can be replaced. ? Dan Coleman |
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe, Now motor selection
I have wonder if I could just substitute a ESC for the controller? I have a and it "seems" to work at least I can vary the speed, and the motor turns. I have not tried it with any load. Ralph On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:36 PM Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe, Now motor selection
Thanks
Bertho, now I understand and can test this. I have seen it mentioned but never any reference to how to check. Ralph On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 2:30 PM Boman33 <boman33@...> wrote:
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Re: Royal live center
开云体育I think I would drill a 3/16 clearance hole through the shaft while I had it apart so I could knock out the center with a long drift or piece of drill rod in the future.? Newer centers used for woodworking are now made that way so centers can be replaced. ? Dan Coleman |
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Re: Atlas Motors (was Finally workbench for my lathe
One thing to keep in mind is that inflation also applies to motor ratings.? I am powering my 618 with a "1/4 hp" motor that is larger than the 618 headstock, about as heavy as the whole lathe, and has 4 oil cups.? That 1/4 hp rating is not an "instantaneous" rating, but a continuous-duty full-load rating that will not raise the motor temperature more than 40 degrees Celsius.
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Re: Royal live center
Bill,
Thanks for your service and if you had any pictures you could pass on, legally, I would welcome them.? I'm pretty much have been a plane nut since I was a kid.? Never had my license though.? I've been in the industry since college.? I've been a airframe stress analyst, plus to a lesser degree a fatigue and damage tolerance analyst.? Been involved in F-16, 787, LearJet, P-3 Orion, Bombardier Global 7000, F-35 on 2 separate occassions (initial phase and now I'm back now working on F-35). Concerning you comment about the Japanese pilots being inexperienced, I understood this to be true later in the war when kamikazee became a their battle plan.? I thought early in the war they had some seasoned pilots giving our boys fits.? Especially when all they had was the Wildcat.? The Zero having less armor and being lightweight was a superior plane.? It wasn't until when the Hellcat came out that our boys really started getting after them big time.? Of course late in the war the Japanese pilots were very young and green and didn't have a chance against better pilots in better airplanes such as the Corsair and even P-38 Lightning.? The same happened in Germany late in the war as well. I would recommend reading the book "Boyd", a biography about Col John Boyd who developed tactics and trained pilots in dogfighting at Nellis after WWII and into 60's.?? He may have still been there when you were there.? However I think he may have moved onto the Pentagaon in the late 60's and through the 70's? He led a group nicknamed the "Fighter Mafia" in the pentagon whose hands were on the F-16 and A-10 program.? His advice to General Dynamics during the development of the F-16 helped them win the competition.? He actually wanted more wing area on the F-16.? But it is the reason it is one of the best dogfighting jets for the last 40 yrs.? Anyway, there was a standing bet at Nellis for all the hot fighter pilots that they coudn't take him out in a dogfight.? No one ever did. Also, "Hoover"? is another great read about the great Bob Hoover.? Amazing stories in that book from WWII through his airshow flying days. |
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe, Now motor selection
Boman33
开云体育Ralph, The Hall-effect sensor works of the common 0V and 5VDC but it is not an isolated voltage.? There is no internal isolation transformer in the controller.? So touching those control wires can be deadly. ? Touching the wires to ground is likely to create a burnt out controller which has happened to people. ? As for the schematic, I am trying to show as a warning that it is not just 5V DC.? If an AC voltmeter is used between the ground and the 5V it will show 120V AC. Bertho ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ralph Hulslander ? Thanks for posting Boman33, are you saying the Hall Effect sensor is 120v AC? ? Then on the diagram Red Wire =? 5v +120v AC I do not understand. I use the Consew motor on my Mill and on my 14" bandsaw but have not tested or modified anything just used it with the foot pedal. ? More than enough hp and torque. ? Ralph ? On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 11:07 PM Boman33 <boman33@...> wrote:
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe
Staying on subject, Thanks Ken!! I am having trouble picturing your suggested suds for the lathe I would like the idea of not having to pull the drawer for access but I just cannot picture it. Bill Williams, probable only cost I do not see any other advantage. Steve, that is interesting I think the controller is probable less reliable than the motor itself. I get lots of torque on my mill and bandsaw the motor shaft is @15mm. Ralph On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 9:34 PM Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining=[email protected]> wrote: If these 3/4 HP Consew DC sewing machine motors are the $135 motors being sold on eBay, I burned up two of these motors I had installed to power my 10” Atlas lathe about three years ago. I don’t recall if it was the motor controls or the motor itself that fried. Twice. |
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe, Now motor selection
Thanks for posting Boman33, are you saying the Hall Effect sensor is 120v AC? Then on the diagram Red Wire =? 5v +120v AC I do not understand. I use the Consew motor on my Mill and on my 14" bandsaw but have not tested or modified anything just used it with the foot pedal. More than enough hp and torque. Ralph On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 11:07 PM Boman33 <boman33@...> wrote: Here is the Consew control schematic.? A larger capacitor will make the motor accelerate and brake slower. |
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Re: Atlas Motors (was Finally workbench for my lathe
开云体育Hi Robert , ? No problem with any of that :>) ? Keep well, ? Carvel ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert Downs via Groups.Io
Sent: 07 January 2019 10:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Atlas Motors (was Finally workbench for my lathe ? Carvel, ? I’ve fallen behind (again).? :-) ? Your Atlas Motors ad is from Atlas Catalog No. 45, which is dated May, 1945 (so not quite Post-War).? One thing to keep in mind is that Atlas, like Sears, ?had motors made with their name on them (all the way up through at least 1978) but they didn’t make motors.? And just because a motor was listed in a catalog didn’t necessarily mean that it was intended for use on any machines that were also listed in that catalog.? At least one catalog listed up to 1 HP 440V 3-phase motors with ?” diameter shafts.? That did not mean that they expected ?someone to buy that motor to run a 618 6” lathe that was also listed in that catalog.? The page that each machine was listed on usually gave the motor recommendation.? Recommended motor HP was as follows (all at 1725 to 1800 RPM) ? 6”??? 1/4 to 1/3 HP 9”??? 1/4 to 1/3 HP 10”? 1/3 to 1/2 HP 12”? 1/3 to 1/2 HP (3/8” bed) 12”? 1/2 to 3/4 HP (1/2” bed) ? The dangers of operating a machine with an over-size motor is that the operator can get into the habit of overloading the machine, causing premature wear and failure. ?And if you ever do have a crash, it will damage more than it would have with the proper motor on the machine. ? On the subject of using a VFD to run a motor larger than it is rated for, it may work and it may not.? VFD’s generally have both current and voltage limiters.? Assuming that these are properly set to protect the VFD, starting an over-sized motor may take several seconds, even if started with no load on the motor.? Once started, the no-load current may be within the limits of the VFD, but it may after a while damage the motor because of the slow start during which the motor is drawing the maximum current that the VFD can supply.? It isn’t actually intended to be operated that way.? The rule of thumb for AC and for shunt or compound wound DC motors is that the surge or starting current is typically about 3X the rated Full Load Amperes (FLA) on the nameplate.? In a normal circuit where the system is capable of momentarily supplying this, the motor will come up to speed in one-half a second or less.? If the system isn’t so capable, it could take several seconds for the motor to wind up.? The under-sized VFD may be happy with this, but the motor won’t be. ?Eventually, you are going to let the magic smoke out of the motor. ? Robert Downs ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of cwlathes ? Hi Bill, ? That is very curious . ? Keep well, ? Carvel ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io ? Don't know about that. The serial number card says it was shipped with a 3/4hp 1ph 1725 rpm motor. And a 3/4hp VFD might not be able to turn a motor rated for 2hp at all. And the motor is physically large enough it could be a 3HP motor. I don't know a lot about 3phase motors, but I work with them, so have been reading up on them. My equipment that I work on has quite a variety of motors, many 3 phase, and rated from 1/4HP to 60HP. I've still got a lot of parts to derust, paint, and put back together, so I'm not in a great hurry at the moment. Get down to the last couple of parts, it will get more urgent, though, I do suspect! ;) ? Bill in OKC ? On Sunday, January 6, 2019, 1:48:59 AM CST, cwlathes <carvelw@...> wrote: ? ? Morning Bill, ? Regards, ? Carvel ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io ? I'm thinking a 3/4hp 3ph motor and VFD for mine, as my 10L originally shipped with a 1725rpm 3/4hp 1ph motor. Everything I've read or heard about the Teco VFD's seem to indicate they're the smart move. Haven't had much luck finding anything for less than about $3-400 for the combination, plus shipping.? ? The lathe came with a 3ph motor without a data plate. Old but not quite as rusty as the rest of the lathe. I have a contact tachometer so could find out what speed it is, but I'd have to take it to work to get power to test it. Did borrow their megger, no leakage or shorts at 1kv. If I knew what hp it's rated for I could just buy the VFD. I have 220vac power in the shop at one location, could extend it. Or move the lathe to it.? ? I gave up on my HF tool chest as a stand for my Atlas TH42. It is just a bit too long, and also too wide for the "42 inch" tool box. That is 42 inches including the handle. 40 inches long x 18 inches deep, about a 3/4"lip on back and sides. I got it just before they came out with the 22" deep tool chests, of course. So it's going to be a tool chest. With tools in it. Imagine that! :) ? The table is one I've mentioned here before. It's 3' x 8', 1/8" steel top, now with 1" of Baltic birch plywood on top of the steel. I need to get the drip pan I told you about from under the Atlas MF Mill and put it under the Atlas lathe. I have a new 2' x 3' drip pan for the mill, and another for the Lewis shaper. I've been planning on putting that on the table with the lathe and mill, but I'm wondering if that is such a good idea. I've only run the shaper once, and promptly took it back off the heavy steel file cabinet I'd mounted it on. Lots of momentum there as the ram moves back and forth. Probably do bad things to the fine finish on a part turned while it was running. :) ? Bill in OKC ? ? ?
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Re: Royal live center
开云体育
Carvel is right. You can get great things made in China, if you want to pay the premium for quality. Remember, your iPhone is made in China. The computer you are using is made in China, etc. You get what you pay for, at the higher end, and you get garbage at
the low end. The Chinese are instinctively geared towards reducing cost to the minimum without any regard to quality, unless you bring your standards to the plant and keep them in line.?
I worked for a company that used to import things from China. As soon as you relaxed your vigilance, garbage would come out of the assembly line because they would try to save a penny here and there by substituting the cheapest raw materials and supplies they
could get that day.?
But if you are on top of your supplier, you can really get good stuff delivered. This is also true for India and other "manufacturing" nations out there.?
As consumers, we have more of a Russian Roulette experience as we only want onsies or twosies, but if you buy from the larger importers like Shars, Little Machine Shop, Matthews Precision, your chances of getting good product go up and you always have a recourse
for a return and replacement if you strike out.?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of cwlathes <carvelw@...>
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 12:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Royal live center ?
For interest the best / truest / tightest 3 jaw chuck I own was made in China , and outperforms my “reference” hardly used Pratt B , and cost me less than replacement jaws for the other Pratt B . . . .
? Regards, ? Carvel ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of David Beierl ?
? But that's because they're crap, not because they're Chinese.? If we want good tools and are willing to pay for them the Chinese will sell them to us.? If we want cheap tools, the Chinese will sell them to us.? ?If we don't care they'll sell us cheap ones -- they seem spring-loaded in that direction. ? Yrs, d
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Re: Royal live center
开云体育For interest the best / truest / tightest 3 jaw chuck I own was made in China , and outperforms my “reference” hardly used Pratt B , and cost me less than replacement jaws for the other Pratt B . . . . ? Regards, ? Carvel ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Beierl ?
? But that's because they're crap, not because they're Chinese.? If we want good tools and are willing to pay for them the Chinese will sell them to us.? If we want cheap tools, the Chinese will sell them to us.? ?If we don't care they'll sell us cheap ones -- they seem spring-loaded in that direction. ? Yrs, d
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Re: 6" Dial Calipers
开云体育On 01/07/2019 07:46 AM, Dan and Marlene
Coleman wrote:
These are not rocket science.? But, they can be just a little tricky to get the dial off. But, in many cases, you don't need to mess with that.? generally, take the end stop off the end of the beam, and you can run the slide all the way off.? Then, use a toothbrush to clean the rack.? It may take a jeweler's loupe and a fine wire or X-acto blade to get all the chips out of the rack.? Then, when you put it back on, you may want to use a jeweler's screwdriver to lift the pinion so the gear skips one tooth just as it engages the rack, so that the pointer ends up where you want it. Some larger calipers have two pinions and an anti-backlash spring mechanism behind the dial, and need the pinions preloaded the right way to avoid binding.? This gets a bit more fiddly to get it all started in the right way.? Generally true for any with .1" per turn of the dial. Jon |
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Re: 6" Dial Calipers
开云体育Mark at R. M. Tool Repair can fix your calipers. ?He has parts for older stuff also.? He also repairs indicators.? ?269 Lancaster Dr., Crystal Lake, IL 60014.? 815-893-3302? mrtool2010@.... ? Dan Coleman ? |
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Re: Atlas Motors (was Finally workbench for my lathe
开云体育Carvel, ? I’ve fallen behind (again).? :-) ? Your Atlas Motors ad is from Atlas Catalog No. 45, which is dated May, 1945 (so not quite Post-War).? One thing to keep in mind is that Atlas, like Sears, ?had motors made with their name on them (all the way up through at least 1978) but they didn’t make motors.? And just because a motor was listed in a catalog didn’t necessarily mean that it was intended for use on any machines that were also listed in that catalog.? At least one catalog listed up to 1 HP 440V 3-phase motors with ?” diameter shafts.? That did not mean that they expected ?someone to buy that motor to run a 618 6” lathe that was also listed in that catalog.? The page that each machine was listed on usually gave the motor recommendation.? Recommended motor HP was as follows (all at 1725 to 1800 RPM) ? 6”??? 1/4 to 1/3 HP 9”??? 1/4 to 1/3 HP 10”? 1/3 to 1/2 HP 12”? 1/3 to 1/2 HP (3/8” bed) 12”? 1/2 to 3/4 HP (1/2” bed) ? The dangers of operating a machine with an over-size motor is that the operator can get into the habit of overloading the machine, causing premature wear and failure. ?And if you ever do have a crash, it will damage more than it would have with the proper motor on the machine. ? On the subject of using a VFD to run a motor larger than it is rated for, it may work and it may not.? VFD’s generally have both current and voltage limiters.? Assuming that these are properly set to protect the VFD, starting an over-sized motor may take several seconds, even if started with no load on the motor.? Once started, the no-load current may be within the limits of the VFD, but it may after a while damage the motor because of the slow start during which the motor is drawing the maximum current that the VFD can supply.? It isn’t actually intended to be operated that way.? The rule of thumb for AC and for shunt or compound wound DC motors is that the surge or starting current is typically about 3X the rated Full Load Amperes (FLA) on the nameplate.? In a normal circuit where the system is capable of momentarily supplying this, the motor will come up to speed in one-half a second or less.? If the system isn’t so capable, it could take several seconds for the motor to wind up.? The under-sized VFD may be happy with this, but the motor won’t be. ?Eventually, you are going to let the magic smoke out of the motor. ? Robert Downs ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of cwlathes
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 08:46 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Finally workbench for my lathe ? Hi Bill, ? That is very curious . ? Keep well, ? Carvel ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io ? Don't know about that. The serial number card says it was shipped with a 3/4hp 1ph 1725 rpm motor. And a 3/4hp VFD might not be able to turn a motor rated for 2hp at all. And the motor is physically large enough it could be a 3HP motor. I don't know a lot about 3phase motors, but I work with them, so have been reading up on them. My equipment that I work on has quite a variety of motors, many 3 phase, and rated from 1/4HP to 60HP. I've still got a lot of parts to derust, paint, and put back together, so I'm not in a great hurry at the moment. Get down to the last couple of parts, it will get more urgent, though, I do suspect! ;) ? Bill in OKC ? On Sunday, January 6, 2019, 1:48:59 AM CST, cwlathes <carvelw@...> wrote: ? ? Morning Bill, ? Regards, ? Carvel ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io ? I'm thinking a 3/4hp 3ph motor and VFD for mine, as my 10L originally shipped with a 1725rpm 3/4hp 1ph motor. Everything I've read or heard about the Teco VFD's seem to indicate they're the smart move. Haven't had much luck finding anything for less than about $3-400 for the combination, plus shipping.? ? The lathe came with a 3ph motor without a data plate. Old but not quite as rusty as the rest of the lathe. I have a contact tachometer so could find out what speed it is, but I'd have to take it to work to get power to test it. Did borrow their megger, no leakage or shorts at 1kv. If I knew what hp it's rated for I could just buy the VFD. I have 220vac power in the shop at one location, could extend it. Or move the lathe to it.? ? I gave up on my HF tool chest as a stand for my Atlas TH42. It is just a bit too long, and also too wide for the "42 inch" tool box. That is 42 inches including the handle. 40 inches long x 18 inches deep, about a 3/4"lip on back and sides. I got it just before they came out with the 22" deep tool chests, of course. So it's going to be a tool chest. With tools in it. Imagine that! :) ? The table is one I've mentioned here before. It's 3' x 8', 1/8" steel top, now with 1" of Baltic birch plywood on top of the steel. I need to get the drip pan I told you about from under the Atlas MF Mill and put it under the Atlas lathe. I have a new 2' x 3' drip pan for the mill, and another for the Lewis shaper. I've been planning on putting that on the table with the lathe and mill, but I'm wondering if that is such a good idea. I've only run the shaper once, and promptly took it back off the heavy steel file cabinet I'd mounted it on. Lots of momentum there as the ram moves back and forth. Probably do bad things to the fine finish on a part turned while it was running. :) ? Bill in OKC ? ? ?
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Re: 6" Dial Calipers
Seb: In a 12/2016 video, YouTube creator Adam Booth talked about the guy who does his repairs : "I also have some repaired tools that has come in from M.R. Tool Repair. Mark is an excellent craftsman when it comes to precision instrument repairs. Give him a try, you will be pleased!" Mark Ratkowski M. R. TOOL REPAIR 269 Lancaster Drive Crystal Lake, IL 60014 mrtool2010@... HTH, Bill
On Sunday, January 6, 2019, 6:33:54 PM PST, seb fontana via Groups.Io <speedoo51@...> wrote:
I have several 6" Dial Calipers [ok, four.] that need repair..Three I dropped and they landed making the dial inoperable for one reason or another, one got some foreign material in the gear rack and in my trying to fish it out did not make the dial operate any better in the two spots..So is there any place I could send them for repair? They are all name brand with little use, just my clumsiness..Or is it not worth the bother/cost and just replace with new? I am in CT..Thanks, Seb..
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe, Now motor selection
Boman33
Here is the Consew control schematic.? A larger capacitor will make the motor accelerate and brake slower.
The top trim potentiometer sets the adjustment pot's high speed value. The bottom one the low speed. Start with the high end pot at mid value, the speed pot at slowest setting and the low end pot at minimum. Gradually increase the low end pot until there is a slight speed increase. Set speed pot to max speed.? Adjust the top speed pot until there is no speed change (about 4500 RPM). Repeat these steps a couple of time since there is interaction between the settings. The goal is to get the full range on the speed pot so at minimum the speed is a few hundred RPM and at max setting the 4500 RPM. Note, the max speed can be limited? in the controller menu. Warning Live AC 120V.? Be safe. |
Bill Buckalew