Is the 618’s serial number 023653 or 028653?

Robert Downs

*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
Behalf Of *Don Newbold
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 23, 2019 11:14
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Welcome to [email protected]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Here are a couple photos of their current condition.
The Atlas is complete and well oiled.
The Sears is covered in saw dust as it had been sitting in a wood shop
for years. There is no id plate, neither on the end nor the back. It is
complete except for a motor.
Both are sitting covered as I try to convert a 50x6 room along the front
of my house from a greenhouse to shop space.

Don


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Robert,

-------- Original message --------
From: "Robert Downs via Groups.Io" <wa5cab@...>
Date: 1/27/19 2:14 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Concern with my Spindle

I seriously doubt that how well the dust covers seal around the spindle has anything to do with oil flow rate.? In the first place, the dust covers don’t come anywhere close to actually sealing to the spindle.? However, they could be blocking the hole in the top of the headstock.? I have suspected for years that that is the reason for the large imbalance on my 3996.?

?

Are the felts in your oil cups factory or not?? If not, then none of us have any basis for comparison.? I don’t mean to imply that there is automatically something wrong in using locally procured felt.? Just that there would be no basis for comparison.

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Robert Downs

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…

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I'm guessing the oil loss differential from the front to back bearings has to do with the metal dust caps sealing better on one end.

I'm curious if other's oil cups are empty on the spindle each time they use it?
Thanks,
Jody

Yeah. But instead of today someone going to the trouble to convert a
babbit headstock to some automotive split rod bearings, it would be
quicker and cheaper to pick up a Timken bearing headstock and spindle
and transfer the rest of the parts to it.

Also, the 9”, 10” and 6” were not originally intended for hobbyists.? Although they cost less than the Clausing and South Bend lathes, they still cost more than a weeks pay for most US residents.? The hobby market didn’t take off until after WW-II when people began to have a little extra cash each week.? The only private individuals who could afford one during the Depression were rich ones primarily in the North East.? And during WW-II, even they couldn’t buy one unless they bribed some official.

?

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Yeah.? But instead of today someone going to the trouble to convert a babbit headstock to some automotive split rod bearings, it would be quicker and cheaper to pick up a Timken bearing headstock and spindle and transfer the rest of the parts to it.

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Robert Downs

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Robert, you pose a very interesting question here. Other than
basic conservationism on the part of customers and producers I do not
see why! But then the basic design of our lathes was done in an era when
Chevrolet still had poured babbitt connecting rod bearings! This would
be a thought for upgrading an older poured babbitt headstock with a
larger spindle, bigger through hole and trimetal insert bearings! Bill
in Boulder

On 1/26/19 11:57 AM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io wrote:

They are similar to the bearings used in most automotive and aircraft
engines except that most of those built since sometime between 1900
and 1920 have replaceable steel backed bearing halves.? Why Atlas,
South Bend and many other makers didn’t do that, I don’t know.

?

I have one of those in my 53 Chevy Advance Design truck. ? A marvel of Rube Goldberg style engineering. ? There is another intermediate style of shell bearing as used on my 47 Allis Chalmers tractor. ?It has a very thick babbitt layer. ?You have to shim them. As they wear you remove shims. ?

?

Robert, you pose a very interesting question here. Other than
basic conservationism on the part of customers and producers I do not
see why! But then the basic design of our lathes was done in an era when
Chevrolet still had poured babbitt connecting rod bearings! This would
be a thought for upgrading an older poured babbitt headstock with a
larger spindle, bigger through hole and trimetal insert bearings! Bill
in Boulder

On 1/26/19 11:57 AM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io wrote:

They are similar to the bearings used in most automotive and aircraft
engines except that most of those built since sometime between 1900
and 1920 have replaceable steel backed bearing halves.? Why Atlas,
South Bend and many other makers didn’t do that, I don’t know.

?

Robert, you pose a very interesting question here. Other than
basic conservationism on the part of customers and producers I do not
see why! But then the basic design of our lathes was done in an era when
Chevrolet still had poured babbitt connecting rod bearings! This would
be a thought for upgrading an older poured babbitt headstock with a
larger spindle, bigger through hole and trimetal insert bearings! Bill
in Boulder

On 1/26/19 11:57 AM, Robert Downs via Groups.Io wrote:

They are similar to the bearings used in most automotive and aircraft
engines except that most of those built since sometime between 1900
and 1920 have replaceable steel backed bearing halves.? Why Atlas,
South Bend and many other makers didn’t do that, I don’t know.

?

?

?from what i read? the atlas came out with timkens first and sears wanted to keep the price down and stuck with bushings unless ordered with timkens... the 618 was prmarily a hobby lathe but also was marketed to service repair shops to re surface armatures in starters and generators..

?

The manual addresses speed with the sleeve bearings. It states that the
clamping pressure should be reduced slightly for high speed and
tightened back for slow speed. If it states what speed is high vs low I
didn't catch it.

Don

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Interesting. I knew about the oil recommendation changing, I never knew they were putting timkens in them as early as 1937. I wonder now if the timkens were sold as a high speed option, or if they were having trouble figuring out which way to go.

?

I've looked through a bunch of pdf's and a couple of original printed
manuals. My original 1937 Atlas manual never mentions 618 or any other
model number, as best I could tell, but it discusses both bearing styles
and shows pictures of both styles.

I noticed one little tid bit of information. In the 1937 manual 10
weight oil is used. In the later manuals, 50s/60s and later, 20 weight
is used.

Don

Hi Bill,

Hopefully here's some pics you might find interesting.

.177 cal, precharged pneumatic. Get around 55 shots on a 3000 psi fill.

The stock was the most difficult part for me!

Dave

On January 12, 2019 at 5:41 PM "Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io" <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:

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I'm thinking cut rifling, but button has some advantages, and disadvantages, that differ from those of cut rifling cutters. So I may have to play with both, and see which works better for the things I want to do. I'm thinking something for pistol barrels first, as much for practice and play as anything else. And I'd be delighted to see any photos you want to share!

After a 20+ year hiatus, I've recently gotten back into reloading, and casting bullets, and I've wanted to make a, call it a .45acp Magnum for lack of a better description, 1911-style pistol in the .44mag power range. Or an 1896 Mauser in the .30 cal version. Or both. ;)

Bill in OKC

On Saturday, January 12, 2019, 5:07:45 PM CST, Dave Matticks <dpm100@...> wrote:

More than happy to tell you what I know.

Are you trying to do cut or button rifling? Can't really help on either specifically.

I have a hammer forged BSA barrel on my hand rolled PCP rifle.

Except for the barrel blank, scope and some screws it was made by me. Got pics if you're interested, it's kind of cool.

Dave

On January 12, 2019 at 4:00 PM "Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io" <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:

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I would be interested in hearing more about what you did, and how you went about doing it. I? hope some day to be skilled enough to make a rifling machine, and it looks like what you've done here could be helpful to know.

Bill in OKC

On Saturday, January 12, 2019, 3:55:28 PM CST, Dave Matticks <dpm100@...> wrote:

Hope I can find the pics of part of my never ending project from a few years ago.
Needed to cut 1" pitch on a 4" diameter part 24" long. Here's the kicker, 2" root diameter. Don't remember the angle or radius at the root but you get a sense of the process.
Single point was NG, milling was the only option. 2 pcs. 303 SS and 2 pcs. Delrin. 1 each left hand and right hand.
Not regular screw threads. Feed screws for pleated filter media to glue the ribbons on.
I love a little challenge once in awhile.
Dave