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Hi Ysbrand,

Nur ein bissen. I had 4 years of Deutsch in high school 20 years ago and never really used it. I've forgotten most of it but can still pick up a little bit here and there. I don't understand most of the technical railway terminology and have given up on trying to use translators since as you said, they don't work that well.

I've been considering learning Deutsch again since I started up with Z scale about 3 years ago, but my wife is half-Hungarian so I need to learn Hungarian as well.

And, yes, my ancestors came from the Emden area three generations ago.

Thanks,
Randy Smidt

Ysbrand van der Veen <ymvdveen@...> wrote:
Verstehst du Deutsch en Nederlands. Do you understand German and Dutch?
Babelfish won't help you out with this kind of specialists documents.

Best,
Ysbrand

Verstehst du Deutsch en Nederlands. Do you understand German and Dutch?
Babelfish won't help you out with this kind of specialists documents.

Best,
Ysbrand

As Bill said, Absolutely interested in European modules. I would like to see info on the various standards used there as well.

Randy Smidt

Ysbrand van der Veen <ymvdveen@...> wrote:
Hello group,

Just let me know if there's interest in the Z-Bend group of seeing pictures
of the European Z-Scale Modules that will be shown at the Z Weekend in
Geseke, Germany, March 18-19. The modules are based on System J?rger, with a
depth of 40 cm. The smaller size of these modules compared to Z-Bend better
fits our smaller European homes than the very large American Z-Bend Modules.
For example, I couldn't get your modules down the stairs or by the way into
my European car.

And because even a depth of 40 cm is too big for many people here in Europe,
we are now also working on a 30 cm deep, single track branch line module
standard.

Just let me know if you are interested in photo's of our European modules,
and I will upload them after the show in Geseke at Yahoo.

Best,
Ysbrand

--- In Z-Bend_Track@..., zbendtrack@... wrote:

Please, please cut and paste the contents into the ZBT files

section for many more modelers to read over time.

Bill K.

OK Bill,

I finally got it posted to the files section. What a chore! It did
not word wrap so I had to take it back to insert returns.

I also have some topical remarks included so I may someday remove
them.

I plan to have my track to my own standards. Code 30, so I have to
know just what standards are in practice and where I can make changes
that will not harm operations. That is why I have gathered so much
information.

As you are aware, we are trying to start up a Zbend modular
organization here in So Calif. Having Lajos with us also causes us
to "bend" the rules.

Seeing Jim Manley's super lightweight modules taught me a lot. Also
the new MicroTrack track system adds a new dimension to modular
layouts.

We will see what happens at the Costa Mesa show. Being active at a
show is a whole 'nother thing. Is there a way to sling a bed under
one of the modules?

Bill H.
El Toro, CA

--- Ysbrand van der Veen <ymvdveen@...> wrote:
Ysbrand
I for one would be interested in seeing pictures of the show in Geseke. Aways interested in how
somebody else does things.
Ed Scullin

Hello group,

Just let me know if there's interest in the Z-Bend group of seeing pictures
of the European Z-Scale Modules that will be shown at the Z Weekend in
Geseke, Germany, March 18-19.

SNIP

Just let me know if you are interested in photo's of our European modules,
and I will upload them after the show in Geseke at Yahoo.

Best,
Ysbrand


SNIP

Hello group,

Just let me know if there's interest in the Z-Bend group of seeing pictures
of the European Z-Scale Modules that will be shown at the Z Weekend in
Geseke, Germany, March 18-19. The modules are based on System J?rger, with a
depth of 40 cm. The smaller size of these modules compared to Z-Bend better
fits our smaller European homes than the very large American Z-Bend Modules.
For example, I couldn't get your modules down the stairs or by the way into
my European car.

And because even a depth of 40 cm is too big for many people here in Europe,
we are now also working on a 30 cm deep, single track branch line module
standard.

Just let me know if you are interested in photo's of our European modules,
and I will upload them after the show in Geseke at Yahoo.

Best,
Ysbrand

Hey Bill K.,

I sent you a check a while back -- did you get it? no
hurry -- especially since you didnt cash it!

Cheers!
Michael



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

Ysbrand:

Just let me know if there's interest in the Z-Bend group of seeing pictures
of the European Z-Scale Modules

Absolutely. Let us know when they are uploaded.

Bill K.
Houston

--- In Z-Bend_Track@..., "cgwcnw" <ksonta@...> wrote:

Ok folks, I bit the bullet and I am building four z tack modules,

not sure if they will be z-> bend or t-trak style. The current plan
is to hand lay he track and coming from N-scale I need some pointers
on several dimensions.

Hi cgwcnw or is it Ksonta or K. Sonta

I don't mean to be poking fun but it is easier if we have a name or
title that can be used when replying to your messages.

I hope that I don't repeat any previous answers that you may have
already received.

You only need to conform to Zbend or Ttrack if you plan to connect
your modules to any of them. And then, you only need conforming
track at those points were you will be making connections.
------------------

1. Is there a commercially available track gauge one can obtain?

Micro Trains has a combination coupler height gauge and a track
gauge. It is a track gauge for tangent track only. See a picture at
Z Scale Monster.com



Republic Locomotive Works RLW has a NMRA type gauge and a three point
gauge. I don't know what size rail the three point gauge applies
to. It is probably for code 40 rail. Three point track gauges are
rail head size specific. RLW caters to the N scale n3 narrow gauge
crowd. Nn3 uses Marklin Z scale mechanisms and track. Visit the
following site and scroll half way down for the track gauges.


I don't know how applicable the Nn3 clearance gauge is to Z scale but
the track gauge is accurate. 6.5mm In my opinion, it is a little
wide for Z scale tangent track.

A British Z scale club also has a three point Z scale track gauge.
Their three point gauge fits Marklin rail. They also have a gauge
for the back to back dimension of Z scale wheels.


Personally I use a 1/4 inch square aluminum tube for tangent track
and a short piece of 1/4 inch aluminum rod stood on end for curved
track. 1/4 inch stock is equal to 6.35mm. Since I am not very
accurate with my work I rely on my sloppiness to achieve a proper
track gauge. Commercial Z gauge track is gauged to 6.5mm. Even the
sharpest Marklin curved sections are gauged to 6.5mm. So much for
having wider gauge in sharply curved track. (Does that mean that a Z
scale 3 point gauge causes sharply curved track to have a gauge that
is over wide?) (Sometime ago, someone posted the different track
gauges encountered in a Marklin turnout. Does anyone remember where
that was posted? I want a reference to the narrowest portion of that
track.)
----------------------

2. What rail sizes are typically used Code 40 /50/ other?

There is no rail size that is typical for handlaid Z scale track. At
least, not yet. I have seen Nn3 handlaid track using code 40 rail
and I have seen pictures of Mark Fielder,s Pizza layout with handlaid
track and Brian Harrap's Z scale layout which uses track and wheels
to exact scale standards. I may be wrong but I thought that I read
somewhere that Brian heated Z scale rail and stretched it untill he
got it drawn to an acceptable size. Perhaps I just got that confused
with Hiromi Masaki's work.



For a look at Hiromi Masaki's work see:


For flex track or sectional track there are three manufacturers.
They all use different size rail.

For a comparison of these three different tracks go to Sven-Martin
Holt's website and scroll down to "Z-scale track dimensions". Click
on this and you will be taken to a site that lists the different rail
sizes and their dimensions. Sven-Martin has helpfully also posted a
photo of the three different makes of track. You can see that,
besides using different size rail, each manufacturer has a different
spacing for their ties. The Peco and Marklin follow UK and European
standards. MicroTrains follow North American standards. The Peco
track is used by our North American Nn3 railroaders. The wider tie
spacing is closer to their N scale narrow gauge track standards.



Code 40 rail is commonly available at your LHS or at any internet
train store. There is also a code 30 rail and a code 25 rail if you
want even smaller rail. These two rails do not have a rail profile
They are ribbon rails but they present a very narrow rail head and
give your Z trains a very convincing look.

For the code 30 rail you will have to join the 2mm Scale Association.
It is a British club and the membership is
required for any purchases because of the UK tax laws.

The code 25 rail is being sold by "David K. Smith"
<david@...>. You would have to email him to see if it is
still available.

For PC ties the 2mm Scale Association ties are the most convenient.
They are cut to Z scale 8.5ft lengths and come with an insulating gap
already cut in them. I have some Fast Track Z scale ties but they
came in 18ft scale lengths. You will have to cut them in half to get
9 ft ties and you will have to cut your own insulating gaps into the
copper.

Small rail has expansion problems when exposed to extreme heat
variances. Such as: sitting for a time in direct sunlight. Some of
this problem can be overcome by using all PC ties. The Nn3 folks
have handlaid code 40 rail and they don't seem to be having any
problems. I think that they used all PC ties. A Z scaler tried
using every 6th tie as a PC tie but the rail expansion between the
soldered ties made the track unusable. Some people suggest that any
rail be heated in an oven at 250 deg for a half hour. This is
supposed to relieve any stress that is in the rail. The stress is
derived from it being drawn through a die to achieve the rail
profile. Others think that this is all hogwash. Do as you wish.
-----------------------

3. Turnouts frogs will be 5 for the yards and 7's or 9's on the
mainline. What are the typical ones used in Z-scale?

So far, we had only Marklin turnouts. Now there are turnouts from
Aspan and there is The JHM company. I
could find no URL for them but you can find them through here:


Marklin turnout has no frog # designation. some say 4.5?
The Aspan turnouts have no remarks about turnout angles.
JHM has #6 and #8s.

The Aspan and the JHM turnouts use wider tie spacing than the Micro
Trains track.

For most in this group, it seems that current Z scale modelers favor
a turnout that can be substituted for a Marklin turnout. That may be
because most Z scale layouts 'till now, use Marklin sectional track
and any turnout must be a drop in for the Marklin turnout.

There have been reports of Z scale turnouts that have been handlaid
at various frog angles but, to my knowledge, only Lajos Thek of Zthek
has posted any photos to the net. I have seen many photos of
handlaid Nn3 turnouts but do not remember any for Z scale turnouts.
-----------------------

3. Coming from N-scale I have several track gauges that indicate
clearances for the tunnel portals and bridges etc. what are the
equivalent clearances for Z gauge?

There has been no published clearance standards for Z. Many Z scale
modelers use Marklin's minimum radius curves with Marklin's passenger
cars and they require a lot of side clearance. Until a few years ago
there were no Z scale cars that required a lot of overhead
clearance. Overhead height was determined by Marklin's cantenary
system. Now that we have the Gunderson cars and soon, perhaps, the
auto racks, many existing layouts will have clearance problems. Just
as the prototype RRs had problems with the new Post WWII equipment
where they had to lower the tracks in their tunnels and under their
bridges in order for these tall cars to clear. Some of them removed
double track mainlines and single tracked them in the center of the
tunnel where there was more overhead height.

You will have to determine your own overhead and side clearances
depending on the type of equipment that you will use and the minimum
radius that you will use.
------------------------

I can't help you with the next two questions. I still use an
Electrapack Senior from Scintilla Rail and Power Works, Inc. (circa
1951) You crack that throttle just a little bit and my MTL F7 scoots
down the track as if someone lit a firecracker to its' tail.

4. My locomotives consists of One MTL F7's A-B-A set, three MTL
gp 35's and z-theks SW1. I plan on converting these over to DCC
with Lenz Gold decoders, any hints and tips?

5. What DCC track voltages should one use, I will have a Digitrax
zephyr unit as my command station, Left over from N-scale.
---------------------

6. Where can one find decals for prr. I plan on painting the sw-1 to
pensy.

My understanding from the posts on this group, you will have to use
existing N scale decals. A couple of members in
do make decals on special
order. I hope that you do not need decals for UP. There is a legal
staff at UP who are trying to justify their salaries by looking for
the unlawful use of the UP logo. (and they earn a LOT of money) Who
is Pennsy's successor? the U.S. Government? Conrail was U.S. Gvmt
right? They need money also. That means the FBI and who is the head
of all that? The old boss of Brownie from FEMA and he is a lawyer
too. WOW! If you hand lay track, I suggest that you hand letter
your trains also. There really is a conspiracy going on. <;o((
---------------------------

As I get into this deeper I know I will have more questions.

Thanks
------------------------------------

Bill K. I am sorry for the length of this post but K. asked a lot of
questions.

Hope that this helps some. I have to quit here. My aluminum hat is
beginning to get uncomfortable. <:o))

Bill H.
El Toro, CA

If you haven't noticed, we've gained a number of new Z scalers on this list
in the last couple of weeks.

Welcome all.

The hope of this list is for the sharing of issues unique to modular Z scale,
and in particular Z-Bend Track modules. Please look in the files area for a
few ideas, and feel free to add articles about things you may have learned or
developed.

If its not there, ask. Several of us are capable and willing to put together
a "white paper" about a wide variety of modular topics.

This list is NOT meant to detract from the general purpose Z_Scale list at
Yahoo. If you have items/information which are valued to ALL Z-Scalers, then it
probably belongs on the Z_Scale list or the Z-DCC lists. I sure don't want
this list to ever, ever get up 1,000+ emails a month. Wow.

Nor is this list meant to detract from "regional" lists where local groups of
modelers swap meeting dates, whos-bringing-what to the next show, etc. I
leave those groups to define what is "good" all by themselves and don't ever
interfere with their "natural" development.

Again, I hope that this list will be a reference place: a repository of files
and photos of things that work in ZBT modules, and a place to share solutions
unique to ZBT modules.

Welcome all, and keep those questions, files and solutions coming.

*** And most important: Build a module and use it a home !!! Have fun. ***

Bill Kronenberger
aka Bill K.
Houston

ksonta@... writes:

5. What DCC track voltages should one use, I will have a Digitrax zephyr
unit as my
command station, Left over from N-scale.

You'll get the best (actual experience) answers from the Z-DCC collective at:
Subscribe: Z_Scale_DCC-subscribe@...

Hope this helps,
Bill K.
Houston

Bill H:

Bill K. I am sorry for the length of this post but K. asked a lot of
questions.

Sorry??? Good Grief, its a masterpiece.

Please, please cut and paste the contents into the ZBT files section for many
more modelers to read over time.

Bill K.
Houston

Well howdy < insert name here >. Where are you based?

Welcome to the world of Z. I assume that you are building these modules for
yourself, perhaps to best fit a room or location but still be transported or
put away as the reason to possibly not use the Z-bend interface. Actually,
you can use whatever you want except for one if you want to connect to a
group layout. The Z-bend std is only for interconnecting club modules, not
one's own modules. In fact, it hampers this a bit, keeping track at the
same plane, spacing and somewhat parallel. Using your own interface allows
for wider spacing or spacing between the 2 track main line. This really
helps with grades, cross overs, mountains, etc. I am actually planning a
corner module (maybe 90 square but maybe 60 degrees) so that I can make one
15-18" radius up and down so that one interface is higher or lower than the
other by 4". This breaks up the planer stuff a bit. Not Z-bend height on
one port but can be run into one's own end module so as not to be an issue.

As for your questions:

1. MTL, Aspen and I believe FastTracks have the gauges. There are differing
home made ones too. Some use a 3-point one for curves, some use a rolling
one made from 1/2" bar stock with the gauge slots cut around each end.

2. Several have tried the hand lay with PC Bd ties and run into thermal
expansion issues which permanently warps the gauge. If you have a stable
climate (i.e. no sun) then you should be OK. Code 40 looks nice but doesn't
leave much room for spikes to clear. You'll have to solder tie them.
Miller Engineering is a source but their prices nearly doubled last year.
Also, the top rail head is wider on the non-Z rail so even with code 40,
it's wider than Marklin or MT's flex. I use MT flex as it is US tie spacing
and about code 55, a bit lower than Marklin's code 60. It's also about
.015" lower on the rail heads due to the thinner more proto ties. Peter
Wright sells fairly close tie spacing turnouts for $30, it's not worth
making them. We've all tried. (the epoxy, CA and gauging are just not worth
it. Aspen sells some too with longer radius but the US stock is iffy from
Germany.

3. Can't answer. we just eyeball the stuff.
4. DCC in the Marklin F7's is a brainer, the MT locos will require a bit of
a loss to the massive metal. See the Z_DCC Yahoo group or other forums.
The GPs are a pain as the body is quite narrow for any of the "Z" decoders.
They are all 0.35" wide (Digitrax, Lenz and TCS). NCE's newest Z decoder is
the same. Rumors of Digitrax making a GP decoder for late this year have
pretty much been quenched.

5. 10V is the standard. Most are adjustable, some are not so you may have
to use the diode kluge. See the Z_DCC forum and others for assistance.
6. Z decals for PRR are not needed on the GP :). As for others, check the
forums as there are some that may have them or can make them, however they
often work trades (not for sale) as we all have wants and needs but also
talent or materials that others want, like this post :)

Good luck Mr. Phelps.

Jeff Merrill
SF Bay Area Z
"The BAZ BoyZ"

Ok folks, I bit the bullet and I am building four z tack modules, not sure if they will be z-
bend or t-trak style. The current plan is to hand lay he track and coming from N-scale I need
some pointers on several dimensions.

1. Is there a commercially available track gauge one can obtain?
2. What rail sizes are typically used Code 40 /50/ other?
3. Turnouts frogs will be 5 for the yards and 7's or 9's on the mainline. What are the typical
ones used in Z-scale?
3. Coming from N-scale I have several track gauges that indicate clearances for the tunnel
portals and bridges etc. what are the equivalent clearances for Z gauge?
4. My locomotives consists of One MTL F7's A-B-A set, three MTL gp 35's and z-theks
SW1. I plan on converting these over to DCC with Lenz Gold decoders, any hints and tips?
5. What DCC track voltages should one use, I will have a Digitrax zephyr unit as my
command station, Left over from N-scale.
6. Where can one find decals for prr. I plan on painting the sw-1 to pensy.

As I get into this deeper I know I will have more questions.

Thanks

Ok folks, I bit the bullet and I am building four z tack modules, not sure if they will be z-
bend or t-trak style. The current plan is to hand lay he track and coming from N-scale I need
some pointers on several dimensions.

1. Is there a commercially available track gauge one can obtain?
2. What rail sizes are typically used Code 40 /50/ other?
3. Turnouts frogs will be 5 for the yards and 7's or 9's on the mainline. What are the typical
ones used in Z-scale?
3. Coming from N-scale I have several track gauges that indicate clearances for the tunnel
portals and bridges etc. what are the equivalent clearances for Z gauge?
4. My locomotives consists of One MTL F7's A-B-A set, three MTL gp 35's and z-theks
SW1. I plan on converting these over to DCC with Lenz Gold decoders, any hints and tips?
5. What DCC track voltages should one use, I will have a Digitrax zephyr unit as my
command station, Left over from N-scale.
6. Where can one find decals for prr. I plan on painting the sw-1 to pensy.

As I get into this deeper I know I will have more questions.

Thanks

Dave
I bought my ties from Fast Tracks. They sell both PC ties and wood ties. The wood ties are
marked N scale and ned to be cut down to size. You might als want to check with Republic
Lomotives Works. My Local hobby shop sells code 100 rail ant ties for HO guys.
Ed Scullin



--- davidamiller57@... wrote:

Hello Ed,

Saw your e-mail and I'm interested in hand laying the ties and track for two
bridges.
Where would a good source of ties be. If I have to cut them myself, is
there wood cut to the right dimensions and I just need to cut to length.

Thank you,
Dave Miller

I have realized that I will never get to hand lay my track. I have two FastTrack jigs for sale
along with about 400 feet of code 40 rail. Also have a bunch of wood and PCB ties and the switch
tie sets. Also have all of their website information printed out.
If anybody is interested please contact me off list. I will do a detailed inventory tomorrow
morning.
Ed Scullin

In the event you do not view other forums:


l

Hi All
I just added pictures of the MAD CITY Train show in Madison Wisconsin
to my site, www.hobbycraftsnmore.com Go to the hobby Page and then to
the train show link on the right hand side. There is a Z Scale Train
Club there that uses the Z Bend standarts
Hobbycraftsnmore