My pleasure, Gary, glad you found it helpful.
I appreciate the compliments, too. No, I don't have any videos or tutorials. I prefer to use my digital media time to work on music. I always have time for writing, though. ?
Feel free to post back with updates regarding your musical development. I'm curious to hear about your experiences moving forward.
J
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I noticed the same thing on my end. I’ll investigate.
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mate, why are we getting at least FOUR postings of everything you post? you're clogging my inbox.
ONLY POST ONCE please.
thanks.
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mate, why are we getting at least FOUR postings of everything you post? you're clogging my inbox.
ONLY POST ONCE please.
thanks.
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Jonah- A heartfelt thank you for your reply! It was above and beyond the call of duty! I will keep your comments in my notes and reference them frequently going forward. Just curious, have you ever posted videos of you using either QY 70 or 100 sequencer, exploring the various features, and offering your thoughts as you go? You seem to have a firm command of the subject and the everyman vocabulary (not just tech speak) to explain in detail. Anyway, thanks again to you and the club members for your support.
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On Aug 5, 2022, at 1:32 PM, jonah@... wrote:
? Nothing wrong with a general inquiry!
I don't have specific samples of effects common to particular genres, but the preset patterns are good to study for some starting points.
If you're inclined to doing some trial and error experimentation, are some general rules of thumb:
##Rock
Overdrive, distortion, and autowah are commonly used on rhythm instruments. Because there is so much repetition in those parts, variation in timbre becomes paramount, and effects are used to add texture. Modulation effects (chorus, flanger, phaser) are used iin this way to highlight a particular part.
Subtle reverb or EQ cuts to mid frequencies are used to make parts less prominent in the mix. Drums generally have lower amounts of reverb, with snare usually having noticeably more applied.
Delay may be used for rhythmic effect, and delay times are generally set in some relation to underlying timing.
##Pop
Cleaner textures, carefully controlled dynamics, and often more space here. Arrangements will have less sonic overlap and be more sculpted. EQ and filters are used to carve away everything but essential frequencies for a particular voice.
The lack of freqency clutter leaves space for longer reverb times without creating sonic mush.
The lead voice will be a lot more prominent in the mix than the accompaniment, and will tend to have more reverb to stretch out in.
##Country
Unless it's a ballad, country tends to have more percussive rhythmic parts. Very short delays help fill out the space between notes and can augment the rhythm. Delays will be more useful here than reverb.
Classic country can also have complex harmonies, which means lower levels of reverb so the changes are smeared into each other.
If a song in this genre has bluesy elements, more of the tips for rock will be relevant (e.g. overdriven guitar). If it's a ballad, slower changes and a lot more reverb to blend things are common.
##Reggae
Often darker mixes, so lowpass filters and mid cuts are your friend. Bass parts are generally all bottom, with almost all of the top end and most of the mid sculpted away.
A ton of long reverb is common, but selectively applied (either to a particular voice, or even a particular note). The snare will generally have a lot of recerb, though slower hihat and kick parts sometimes do, too.
Delays are used to add ghost notes and counter-rhythms to percussion parts like hats, shakers, etc. In this case, settings related in time to the underlying rhythm are helpful.
Effects are also used in idiomatic ways, like phaser on keys, autowah on guitar. But especially hits on the offbeat selectively sent to looo g reverbs and delays that are slightly out of time w the rhythm. So automating the sends w CC's will be important here.
##Jazz
Depends on how many instruments you're working with here, but for fewer voices, reverbs will be warm, and shorter with more pre-delay. This gives an intimate feel. Big band will focus more on unified harmonies, blended by reverb. Jump material will be more careful with time-based effects, so the rhythms remain articulate.
Effects for their own sake are used sparingly. A more naturalistic sound is valued here. Top end will be rolled off, overdrive/distortion will be minimal, if at all.
As you can see, while generalizations are possible, specific applications of effects have everything to do with the material being processed, the number and kind of voices, the arrangement, tempo, etc.
I can tell you that a short slapback delay will make a chicken-picken' guitar sound more country, but even then, specific time and tone settings are going to be different depending on tempo, mood, and arrangement. To zoom out a bit, it comes down more to the "effect" you want to achieve, rather than the FX themselves.
Good luck!
J
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Hi Gary,
Nothing wrong with a general inquiry!
I don't have specific samples of effects common to particular genres, but the preset patterns are good to study for some starting points.
If you're inclined to experiment and do some trial and error, here are some general rules of thumb:
Rock
Overdrive, distortion, and autowah are commonly used on rhythm instruments. Because there is so much repetition in those parts, variation in timbre becomes paramount, and effects are used to add texture. Modulation effects (chorus, flanger, phaser) are sometimes used in this way to highlight a particular part.
Subtle reverb or EQ cuts to mid frequencies are used to make parts less prominent in the mix. Drums generally have lower amounts of reverb, with snare usually having noticeably more applied.
Delay may be used for rhythmic effect, and delay times are generally set in some relation to underlying timing.
Pop
Cleaner textures, carefully controlled dynamics, and often more space here. Arrangements will have less sonic overlap and be more sculpted. EQ and filters are used to carve away everything but essential frequencies for a particular voice.
The lack of freqency clutter leaves space for longer reverb times without creating sonic mush.
The lead voice will be a lot more prominent in the mix than the accompaniment, and will tend to have more reverb to stretch out in.
Country
Unless it's a ballad, country tends to have more percussive rhythmic parts. Very short delays help fill out the space between notes and can augment the rhythm. Delays will be more useful here than reverb.
Classic country can also have complex harmonies, which means lower levels of reverb so the changes are smeared into each other.
If a song in this genre has bluesy elements, more of the tips for rock will be relevant (e.g. overdriven guitar). If it's a ballad, slower changes and a lot more reverb to blend things are common.
Reggae
Often darker mixes, so lowpass filters and mid cuts are your friend. Bass parts are generally all bottom, with almost all of the top end and most of the mid sculpted away.
A ton of long reverb is common, but selectively applied (either to a particular voice, or even a particular note). The snare will generally have a lot of reverb, though slower hihat and kick parts sometimes do, too.
Delays are used to add ghost notes and counter-rhythms to percussion parts like hats, shakers, etc. In this case, settings related in time to the underlying rhythm are helpful.
Effects are also used in idiomatic ways, like phaser on keys, autowah on guitar. But especially hits on the offbeat selectively sent to looong reverbs and delays that are slightly out of time w the rhythm. So automating the sends w CC's will be important here.
Jazz
Depends on how many instruments you're working with here, but for fewer voices, reverbs will be warm, and shorter with more pre-delay. This gives an intimate feel. Big band will focus more on unified harmonies, blended by reverb. Jump material will be more careful with time-based effects, so the rhythms remain articulate.
Effects for their own sake are used sparingly. A more naturalistic sound is valued here. Top end will be rolled off, overdrive/distortion will be minimal, if at all.
As you can see, while generalizations are possible, specific applications of effects have everything to do with the material being processed, the number and kind of voices, the arrangement, tempo, etc.
I can tell you that a short slapback delay will make a chicken-picken' guitar sound more country, but even then, specific time and tone settings are going to differ depending on tempo, mood, and arrangement. To zoom out a bit, it comes down more to the "effect" you want to achieve, rather than the FX themselves.
Good luck!
J
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Jonah- Thanks for the reply. You’re right. I knew when I sent that query to the group that my question was fuzzy and unfocused. I was looking to gather samples of effects that had been used in various genres (rock, pop, country, reggae, jazz, etc.) from members who had had success in their past endeavors. And, I know this is all very subjective. Someday someone in our little pow wow needs to make videos of various aspects of the QY 70 and 100 and share his/her golden knowledge. Anyway, I’m getting there little by little and certainly enjoying the journey. Thanks again to you and all group members.
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On Aug 3, 2022, at 10:53 AM, jonah@... wrote:
? Hi Gary,
That's a broad question. Different effects give very different results, irrespective of settings. And even within a single effect, you can usually accomplish several different things.
I find it useful to first ask myself what I'm trying to accomplish. When I think of reverb, am I trying to extend an instrument's sustain? To place it in a space? Same space or different from the other instruments? Am I trying to make it less prominent in the mix? Do some experimental sound design?
Thinking through what I want to accomplish informs the settings.
Different effects answer different questions. For distortions, I ask myself if I'm trying to alter timbe. Or reduce dynamic range? Or bring it forward in the mix? Or tweak the tonal balance.
What musical task are you trying to accomplish?
Jonah
P.S. One thing I can recommend with certainty is to use shorter reverb times than the ones provided by the presets!
P.P.S. If you're really adventurous, try overdriving the effects internally by sending simultaneous duplicates of the same hot signal into the same send. You can even overdrive the analog output amp of the unit, which allows you to use the physical volume slider to vary the intensity.
Also fun to do Karplus Strong style resonator effects by reducing time-based effects' reverb/delay times to absolute minimum and play with high feedback levels. Then, all you have to do is send a 'tik' in.
You can get really creative with approaches like these.
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Hi Gary,
That's a broad question. Different effects give very different results, irrespective of settings. And even within a single effect, you can usually accomplish several different things.
I find it useful to first ask myself what I'm trying to accomplish. When I think of reverb, am I trying to extend an instrument's sustain? To place it in a space? Same space or different from the other instruments? Am I trying to make it less prominent in the mix? Do some experimental sound design?
Thinking through what I want to accomplish informs the settings.
Different effects answer different questions. For distortions, I ask myself if I'm trying to alter timbe. Or reduce dynamic range? Or bring it forward in the mix? Or tweak the tonal balance.
What musical task are you trying to accomplish?
Jonah
P.S. One thing I can recommend with certainty is to use shorter reverb times than the ones provided by the presets!
P.P.S. If you're really adventurous, try overdriving the effects internally by sending simultaneous duplicates of the same hot signal into the same send. You can even overdrive the analog output amp of the unit, which allows you to use the physical volume slider to vary the intensity.
Also fun to do Karplus Strong style resonator effects by reducing time-based effects' reverb/delay times to absolute minimum and play with high feedback levels. Then, all you have to do is send a 'tik' in.
You can get really creative with approaches like these.
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Thanks for your response, Eric.
Last night, I put aside some time to test the numbered effects. I set all parameters with Sysex, and A/B'ed Variation slots against the ones for Reverb and Chorus. They sound exactly the same. I think it's safe to say e.g. Chorus 1/2/3/4 all use the same algorithm.
I liked your take on the marketing angle. To someone who isn't going to mess with Sysex, it does sound like there are 4 different Choruses, etc. I think your suggestion to view them as presets is exactly right.
I was originally wondering if there was any reason to use numbered alternates if you're setting all params by Sysex, and it seems there isn't.
However, Phaser 1 and 2 do sound significantly different, due to the different ranges of stages mentioned in the manual. But that seems to be the only time you can get into a different sonic space by using an alternate effect.
I dislike the presets provided, especially for reverbs (waaaay too long R times). Seems like I won't be missing out on anything by picking any given one and tweaking everything under the hood.
Thanks!
J
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Eric's novation mapping is very good. i have a RemoteSL mk1, and it works with that.
the effects all have different ranges so it wasn't possible to make a generic set of controls that worked with all of the - often the case with the effects section on many modules - but it still helped a lot to get a better mix, more intuitive, faster.
it got me thinking that a Ctrlr panel, or maybe an iPad editor would work well. (eg: could have a small iPad sitting next to the QY)
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Are you using a midi controller to affect changes while recording? ?There are quite a number of parameters under the hood, but as others have mentioned alot of the effects are tweaks of various parameters so you may find alot of coverage/overlap with other presets. ?I know alot of people pump the output of the QY though effect pedals and other gear to enhance or make the sounds more unique and interesting. ?Most modern synths (analog and digital) allow you to pass audio into them and use there filters and effects as a sort of effects send.. and of course chaining these device could even create more powerful and unique sounds (or completely muddy the sound depending on how hard everything is pushed/layered).
I recently purchased Line 6 Pod to pass some QY sound through it (as it was recommended in the quintessential ?QY70 FAQ file, but haven’t had a chance to hook it up yet.although I imagine just about any guitar pedal or synth could be used to quite a good effect. ?The reason I chose the Line 6 was because the model I is bought is tiny (Pocket Pod) and runs on batteries which keeps using the two devices very portable.?
As for internal effects modding, I created a pretty thorough midi controller layout for the Novation Remote MKII (the dual LED model) which allows you to tweak pretty much all of the effects params and control all of the tracks and channels ?but it is very convoluted (still a bit of a work in progress), not to mention it is very specific to the Novation Remote MKII hardware. ?The point is that the QY has a VERY deep midi implementation, but I think alot of it needs to be done by programming a good midi controller and probably tweaking params via overdubs to really make the internal effect engine shine. ?Even so, we are talking about about tech that was created well over 20 years ago, so my guess is passing the audio to another (newer, or possible analog) device might be a faster, simpler and more hands on way to go beyond just effects and more into the realm of unique sound design.
Cheers,
Eric
-- ?
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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Hi,
My assumption is they’re fundamentally just presets… Probably the most common parameters are set and then all the other ones are provided if you wish to tweak the presets to make slightly different effects. ?Also since sysex changes can be recorded and played back so I imagine Yamaha added them with the idea that people might do different types of automated/recorded sweeps of various parameters. ? Of course I don’t know what Yamaha engineers were thinking or if this was just more or less marketing to be able to specify a certain number of presets for chorus, ?reverb, and effects but often times even completely different instruments are just small changes to other instruments in terms of XG params (or General Midi for that matter)
Of course, Even small changes in a parameter can make a pretty profound effect on the output sound (provided the Audio stream and monitors are really high quality). However, I certainly am no audiophile so I probably could not discern a lot of the subtle differences… Not saying this is the actual reason in your case, just putting it out there as one possibility.
I hope that makes sense. ?
Of course, it’s all just my humble opinion.
Cheers,
Eric
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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Group members- I’ve been working with both the QY70 and the QY100 for years now, and I’m getting pretty good at putting patterns, tracks, and songs together. However, I’m still searching for ways to use the QY’s effects better. If anyone has any basic settings, tips, or tricks you would like to offer for good reverbs, delay, echo, chorus, pan, distortion, etc., I would appreciate your input. The more details you care to include, the better. Thanks for keeping the group going.
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On Jul 31, 2022, at 5:32 PM, jonah@... wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Hello,
Working w the QY70 and am stumped on an XG FX question:
I've been trying to figure out if there's a difference beyond the preset parameters in alternate bank FX (e.g. Chorus 1 vs 2 vs 3 vs 4). If I get under the hood w Sysex and set all the parameters, I can't tell much of a difference between them. This necessarily includes setting all the underlying XG params the FX UI doesn't display.
I've gone through the XG specs, the QY manual, and even other XG module list books. I found a single detail on differences: Phaser 1 and 2 provide alternate ranges for the 'Stage' parameter. According to page 12 of the QY70 List Book, Phaser 1 spans 6-10 stages, while Phaser 2 spans 3-5 stages.
The SW1000X list book has block diagrams for the effects, but the core of the algorithm is black boxed w/o details. Beyond that, the diagrams only show the overall algorithm's filters, feedback paths, early reflections, and mixers.
This question goes for Reverb 1 vs 2 vs 3, and all the alternate FX that constitute the bank variations for XG effects. Unfortunately, I haven't yet had time to go through each permutation and A/B them by ear.
Was hoping someone had a clue to why these variations exist when you can tweak them to sound the same by adjusting values under the hood.
Is the purpose to provide several preset starting points so that users don't have to mess w Sysex? Given the UI doesn't display all of an effect's parameters, did they figure most users would simply take them to be fundamentally different algorithms?
Thanks,
J
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Hello,
Working w the QY70 and am stumped on an XG FX question:
I've been trying to figure out if there's a difference beyond the preset parameters in alternate bank FX (e.g. Chorus 1 vs 2 vs 3 vs 4). If I get under the hood w Sysex and set all the parameters, I can't tell much of a difference between them. This necessarily includes setting all the underlying XG params the FX UI doesn't display.
I've gone through the XG specs, the QY manual, and even other XG module list books. I found a single detail on differences: Phaser 1 and 2 provide alternate ranges for the 'Stage' parameter. According to page 12 of the QY70 List Book, Phaser 1 spans 6-10 stages, while Phaser 2 spans 3-5 stages.
The SW1000X list book has block diagrams for the effects, but the core of the algorithm is black boxed w/o details. Beyond that, the diagrams only show the overall algorithm's filters, feedback paths, early reflections, and mixers.
This question goes for Reverb 1 vs 2 vs 3, and all the alternate FX that constitute the bank variations for XG effects. Unfortunately, I haven't yet had time to go through each permutation and A/B them by ear.
Was hoping someone had a clue to why these variations exist when you can tweak them to sound the same by adjusting values under the hood.
Is the purpose to provide access to a few preset Sysex only FX params for users working entirely through the FX UI? Did they figure most users would simply take them to be fundamentally different algorithms?
Or is there an actual difference between the numbered effects?
Thanks,
J
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Re: Muting individual pattern tracks in song mode - QY100
Once I figured that out. it opened up a lot of possibilities, I don't mind using the presets as it can save a bit of time instead of starting from scratch and also get the creative juices flowing, but being able to tweak them - 100% better.
Thanks
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Re: Muting individual pattern tracks in song mode - QY100
Nmady- You can change the BritPop preset. That’s one of the great features of both units- QY100 and 700. You export as many of the sections of the pattern as you wish into an open user pattern, “copy the phrase”, then cut and paste as much as you like. I’ve taken a 3/4 drum pattern and converted it into 4/4 through the quantize function. I hope this helps. Feel free to share your tips and concerns.
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On Jul 9, 2022, at 2:15 PM, nmady@... wrote:
?Thanks-- glad to be here!, I love the QY's,?
I figured it out- the patterns I was using for my latest song on the QY100 were preset patterns --ie BritPop, which you can't change - delete phrases etc. and when you try muting them they don't stay that way in song mode
however if you copy the patterns (in Jobs) as user patterns - or even just create you own user patterns, you are able to mute/solo the track patterns and they stay like that in song mode.
Now the decision becomes do I part with my beloved QY700 and have the 100 as my main sequencer - song creator. The screen on the 700 is killer..plus the buttons are great - 2 reason to keep it.
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Re: Muting individual pattern tracks in song mode - QY100
Great info!? Yes that would be another point for the 700 as you "can' mute pattern tracks within song mode,?
I'm going check out the CC command thing to see if I can do that in the 100. I use a Novation Lanuchkey and have it set up/mapped to control things like cutoff, resonance and effects for both QYs
I agree with you about the bank/field thing in the 700 a bit annoying when selecting/searching for instruments.
Thanks
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Re: Muting individual pattern tracks in song mode - QY100
Oh, I thought you meant mute the pattern tracks individually while *staying* in song mode.
Yeah, the QY700 would be a tough one to part with… my advice is to give it ?some time to be sure you won’t miss it… I mean the huge screen, the dual sets of midi ports, and all those quick access buttons and those retro keyboard keys (funny how now the Digitakt and Octatrack use similar buttons and people have come to love the retro style of them… ?I always thought they were great.)
One thing us that I always wished the QY700 had the same sort of instrument selection as the QY100… on the QY700 it is a bit harder because the instruments are broken into banks which uses a separate bank field, I like the linear style of the QY100 and how hitting shift +/- jumps through banks as opposed to having a separate field like the QY700… just easier for me to find the perfect instrument.
By the way there is one thing that I know it’s kind of an issue for some people on the QY 100… Apparently in the pattern mapping if you switch between different pattern *parts* (Main, A/B, Fill, etc) it’s pretty seamless, but if you switch between different patterns *numbers* there can be a slight delay… also there is no hotkey nor any midi command that will allow you to switch pattern (numbers) on the fly during song mode… this is going by memory so I may not exactly have stated this right but it’s something about the pattern switching. ? Just thought you should know in case this is an important feature for you.
Cheers, Eric
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
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On Jul 9, 2022, at 5:15 PM, nmady@... wrote:
?Thanks-- glad to be here!, I love the QY's,?
I figured it out- the patterns I was using for my latest song on the QY100 were preset patterns --ie BritPop, which you can't change - delete phrases etc. and when you try muting them they don't stay that way in song mode
however if you copy the patterns (in Jobs) as user patterns - or even just create you own user patterns, you are able to mute/solo the track patterns and they stay like that in song mode.
Now the decision becomes do I part with my beloved QY700 and have the 100 as my main sequencer - song creator. The screen on the 700 is killer..plus the buttons are great - 2 reason to keep it.
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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Re: Muting individual pattern tracks in song mode - QY100
Thanks-- glad to be here!, I love the QY's,?
I figured it out- the patterns I was using for my latest song on the QY100 were preset patterns --ie BritPop, which you can't change - delete phrases etc. and when you try muting them they don't stay that way in song mode
however if you copy the patterns (in Jobs) as user patterns - or even just create you own user patterns, you are able to mute/solo the track patterns and they stay like that in song mode.
Now the decision becomes do I part with my beloved QY700 and have the 100 as my main sequencer - song creator. The screen on the 700 is killer..plus the buttons are great - 2 reason to keep it.
|
Re: Muting individual pattern tracks in song mode - QY100
By the way, you can insert a sysex command (using the QY100 interface only) into a song track anywhere you’d like (without a midi controller), but it would require some planning of course.
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
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On Jul 9, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Eric via groups.io <erichemingway@...> wrote:
? Welcome to the group.
I am fairly sure it can be done with a sysex or even just a CC midi command, but from the QY100 itself, I am not sure. ?
Perhaps someone else knows for certain.
Eric PS.(Yeah, the QY700 is still an unparalleled standalone sequencer IMHO). On Jul 9, 2022, at 1:17 PM, nmady@... wrote:
?Hello, I have both a QY700 and QY100, being a "amateur" traditional songwriter, I use pattern mode to formulate the verse/chorus/bridge/sections and then song mode to put it all together with chord changes adding lead parts etc. which I then record/sequence into to my iPad.
My question is can I mute the pattern tracks separately (not just the whole pattern) on the 100 in song mode like the 700 allows me to (which allows 16 pattern tracks to be muted/soloed separately)? I love both QY's but I am finding I can do almost everything I need with the 100 - and if I can do this or find a workaround, I would probably sell the 700..although that will be tough as it is an incredible (the best ever?) sequencer - I just don't need all those midi tracks and it's not portable like the 100.
-- “The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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Re: Muting individual pattern tracks in song mode - QY100
Welcome to the group.
I am fairly sure it can be done with a sysex or even just a CC midi command, but from the QY100 itself, I am not sure. ?
Perhaps someone else knows for certain.
Eric PS.(Yeah, the QY700 is still an unparalleled standalone sequencer IMHO).
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On Jul 9, 2022, at 1:17 PM, nmady@... wrote:
?Hello, I have both a QY700 and QY100, being a "amateur" traditional songwriter, I use pattern mode to formulate the verse/chorus/bridge/sections and then song mode to put it all together with chord changes adding lead parts etc. which I then record/sequence into to my iPad.
My question is can I mute the pattern tracks separately (not just the whole pattern) on the 100 in song mode like the 700 allows me to (which allows 16 pattern tracks to be muted/soloed separately)? I love both QY's but I am finding I can do almost everything I need with the 100 - and if I can do this or find a workaround, I would probably sell the 700..although that will be tough as it is an incredible (the best ever?) sequencer - I just don't need all those midi tracks and it's not portable like the 100.
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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Eric