Well, out to the bench where the TX816 still sits.? I power it on with all modules and sure enough, Error 4. Dunno how I didn’t catch that, before. I assumed it was the prior preset because those first 5 are my go-to super-handful patches. But yes, Error 4. So NOW I gotta get out the meter and find out if the new battery is installed wrong, or if I got a dud.? Ordered 2 dozen of them from Mouser a couple years ago, so maybe the latter.? But then, I’m kind of an old guy, so maybe the former. Anyway, thanks, I’ll head down that path and see what I find.? You and Jeremy were very helpful. ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of alesisfusion8hd
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:25 PM
To: Jeremy Bernstein; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older? Hi
When you power your unit on, do you have the error led lit on and a 4 displayed on these two modules? If so, it simply means the inside battery must be replaced, an easy task if you know how to use a soldering iron. I've got two TX816, both have modules with the same issue. My advice is to purchase holders for a CR2032 battery; by bending the legs a little bit, it fits the holes of the current battery.
I've already did this on a couple of modules. When I'll get some spare time, I'll replace all batteries on all the remaining modules.
HTH,
Fran?ois
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Heh,heh... I might sell it, but it's obviously the centerpiece of my FM Suite.
The TX816 runs into a DMP11 mixer (that's the 4U motorized fader unit). Play that with a KX-88 that I still love. Or ::clears throat:: my candy apple red KX-1 (not kx-5). Or even my WX-7 which I'm not obsessed with, so that means I'm not super good at it, either.
If I sold all that, it would leave me with a meager and dwindling stable of two DX7 and two TX-802 and a single TX7.
But I could be persuaded I suppose.
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-----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Bernstein [mailto:jeremy.d.bernstein@...] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 3:50 PM To: [email protected]; vision1@... Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older Aha, thanks. It's not really comparable, but I had a TX802 which had a slow-motion startup. Replacing the (mostly empty) electrolytics on the PS board solved the problem, so it's worth a shot. And don't sell it, unless, well, unless it's to me. :-) jb Am 13.02.2020 um 22:47 schrieb LarryS <vision1@...>:
So sorry. Shoulda mentioned that straight off.
Yes, I did a full 8X battery re-install.
That was my first thinking, too.
Didn’t clear it up.
Again, sorry for being sloppy on this.
L.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Bernstein via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:44 AM
To: [email protected]; vision1@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older
Hi,
Do they display an error code at startup? Mine did this when I got it, the backup batteries needed replacement (probably since 15 years). Do yourself a favor, do all 8 and install sockets to make the next time around simpler...
jb
LarryS <vision1@...> schrieb am Do., 13. Feb. 2020, 18:40:
It still works.
Mostly.
Lately, I’ve noticed two of the TF-1 modules that don’t power up the same way everyone else does. Nor do they have that reassuring click of the relay.
BUT, when you hit the function button up front, they join right in with the same display.
Is this a relay thing? or one of the aging electrolytics nearby?
Because unlike other synths, this thing is really hard to service on the bench, being detached from its host power and all. That, and schematics seem impossible to find.
I’m secretly considering selling it, too. But that comes and goes. I hate to break up the ensemble of indulgent spending.
:-)
L.
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So sorry.? Shoulda mentioned that straight off. Yes, I did a full 8X battery re-install. That was my first thinking, too. Didn’t clear it up. Again, sorry for being sloppy on this. ? L. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Bernstein via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:44 AM
To: [email protected]; vision1@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older? Hi, Do they display an error code at startup? Mine did this when I got it, the backup batteries needed replacement (probably since 15 years). Do yourself a favor, do all 8 and install sockets to make the next time around simpler... ? LarryS <vision1@...> schrieb am Do., 13. Feb. 2020, 18:40: It still works. Mostly. Lately, ?I’ve noticed two of the TF-1 modules that don’t power up the same way everyone else does.? Nor do they have that reassuring click of the relay. BUT, when you hit the function button up front, they join right in with the same display. Is this a relay thing?? or one of the aging electrolytics nearby? Because unlike other synths, this thing is really hard to service on the bench, being detached from its host power and all.? That, and schematics seem impossible to find. I’m secretly considering selling it, too.? But that comes and goes.? I hate to break up the ensemble of indulgent spending. :-) ? L. ? ?
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Hi
When you power your unit on, do you have the error led lit on and a 4 displayed on these two modules? If so, it simply means the inside battery must be replaced, an easy task if you know how to use a soldering iron. I've got two TX816, both have modules with the same issue. My advice is to purchase holders for a CR2032 battery; by bending the legs a little bit, it fits the holes of the current battery.
I've already did this on a couple of modules. When I'll get some spare time, I'll replace all batteries on all the remaining modules.
HTH,
Fran?ois
|
Hi,
Do they display an error code at startup? Mine did this when I got it, the backup batteries needed replacement (probably since 15 years). Do yourself a favor, do all 8 and install sockets to make the next time around simpler...
jb LarryS < vision1@...> schrieb am Do., 13. Feb. 2020, 18:40:
It still works. Mostly. Lately, ?I’ve noticed two of the TF-1 modules that don’t power up the same way everyone else does.? Nor do they have that reassuring click of the relay. BUT, when you hit the function button up front, they join right in with the same display. Is this a relay thing?? or one of the aging electrolytics nearby? Because unlike other synths, this thing is really hard to service on the bench, being detached from its host power and all.? That, and schematics seem impossible to find. I’m secretly considering selling it, too.? But that comes and goes.? I hate to break up the ensemble of indulgent spending. :-) ? L. ?
|
It still works. Mostly. Lately, ?I’ve noticed two of the TF-1 modules that don’t power up the same way everyone else does.? Nor do they have that reassuring click of the relay. BUT, when you hit the function button up front, they join right in with the same display. Is this a relay thing?? or one of the aging electrolytics nearby? Because unlike other synths, this thing is really hard to service on the bench, being detached from its host power and all.? That, and schematics seem impossible to find. I’m secretly considering selling it, too.? But that comes and goes.? I hate to break up the ensemble of indulgent spending. :-) ? L. ?
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
That is really interesting and actuqally, quite cute, poor old subtractive trying to resynthesise :-). I have most of the IRCAM suite so must have a look at it, I can;t remember seeing it.
BTW The Ircam software is now free tpo everyone. They still have paid stuff but a lot of the classic IRCAM software is available for free and some amazing MAxMSP object, worth looking at if you are into programming.
There is some AI stuff too for speech and musical resynthesis.
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
The word on the street is that Richard James wasn't into sharing, so this remains vaporware years later. Here's something interesting which just landed, haven't tried it myself. In theory, it could be adapted to any synth:?
Looks interesting, though by the description it is using GAs (Genetic Algorithms) which are evolutionary computer models rather than AI. We did play with the idea in the late 90s but processing was really slow. Must have a nice algo in there to take the FFT analysis and create the right spectral envelopes to emulate the instruments. I hope they make it available to play with.
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
Looks interesting, though by the description it is using GAs (Genetic Algorithms) which are evolutionary computer models rather than AI. We did play with the idea in the late 90s but processing was really slow. Must have a nice algo in there to take the FFT analysis and create the right spectral envelopes to emulate the instruments. I hope they make it available to play with.
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
I thought about this a tiny bit more. I don't know if the "soft" LFO
in the DX7 is interrupt driven or not (it must be though as I can't
see doing any sort of reasonable LFO without a solid timebase), but
did any of the expansions every add better resolution or speed?
Also, here is an interesting DX7 sound-to-patch concept:
" has collaborated with the
company on the Midimutant, a device
that uses AI to create synth patches on a DX7."
On 1/24/2020 12:36 PM, grantpbt wrote:
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The LFOs are done in firmware, so that's something that might be
modifiable, although given the CPU's vintage one would expect
there might be a trade-off in LFO resolution.? I doubt there's
anyway to add noise though, considering everything is done between
the two Yamaha chips (OPS and EGS).
GB
On 1/24/2020 11:45 AM, Don Backshall
wrote:
Just sayin’. Anything like noise or faster LFOs that
can add to the FM arsenal is awesome, but I would much
rather use it to create something “unreal”. Something
organic and almost, kind-of-like an instrument you’ve
heard before but obviously not. Nothing you can identify.
Constant tweaking to attempt to create a “real” instrument
sound is probably a life-long endless pursuit when there
are better ways to do that. Embrace FM for what it is and
what it is best at, which is create sounds unlike any
other form of synthesis. Just kidding. Do what ever makes
you happy. You are, however, making me curious as to what
I am missing by not having an SY77.
Don B.
?
From: sonidium@...
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Patch Purchasing
from eBay
?
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Re: [sdiy] Fantasia patch for DX11/TX81Z/V50
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Re: [sdiy] Fantasia patch for DX11/TX81Z/V50
Any chance to get a brief audio file to listen to somewhere?
Alas I sold my TX81Z a long while ago.
Thanks, Michael.
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On 06.02.2020, at 15:14, John Ames <commodorejohn@...> wrote:
I got to trying to roll up a patch on my
Yamaha V50 recreating the immortal "Fantasia" preset from the Roland
D50.
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
The LFOs are done in firmware, so that's something that might be
modifiable, although given the CPU's vintage one would expect there
might be a trade-off in LFO resolution.? I doubt there's anyway to
add noise though, considering everything is done between the two
Yamaha chips (OPS and EGS).
GB
On 1/24/2020 11:45 AM, Don Backshall
wrote:
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Just sayin’. Anything like noise or faster LFOs that can
add to the FM arsenal is awesome, but I would much rather
use it to create something “unreal”. Something organic and
almost, kind-of-like an instrument you’ve heard before but
obviously not. Nothing you can identify. Constant tweaking
to attempt to create a “real” instrument sound is probably a
life-long endless pursuit when there are better ways to do
that. Embrace FM for what it is and what it is best at,
which is create sounds unlike any other form of synthesis.
Just kidding. Do what ever makes you happy. You are,
however, making me curious as to what I am missing by not
having an SY77.
Don B.
?
From: sonidium@...
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Patch Purchasing
from eBay
?
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
Just sayin’. Anything like noise or faster LFOs that can add to the FM
arsenal is awesome, but I would much rather use it to create something “unreal”.
Something organic and almost, kind-of-like an instrument you’ve heard before but
obviously not. Nothing you can identify. Constant tweaking to attempt to create
a “real” instrument sound is probably a life-long endless pursuit when there are
better ways to do that. Embrace FM for what it is and what it is best at, which
is create sounds unlike any other form of synthesis. Just kidding. Do what ever
makes you happy. You are, however, making me curious as to what I am missing by
not having an SY77.
Don B.
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From: sonidium@...
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Patch Purchasing from eBay
?
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
I find the 'glassy' element is perfect for screaming solo synths that cut through a mix. Add on a breath controller,and fx and fm is hard to beat. I'm sure more modern equipment can do the same or better,but dx has a 'cut glass' edge that nothing else really has.
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On 21 Jan 2020, at 15:10, "Bruce Wahler via Groups.Io" < bw@...> wrote:
These statistical games are always amusing.? Yes, FM synthesis has
millions of sounds, based solely on the numbers.? Many of them,
though, sound similar, while others produce results that aren't all
that useful in practice.? One can create a harpsichord sound with a
carrier of 1.0 and a modulator of 4.0, using short envelopes and the
proper algorithm.? Maybe add a couple of modulators to simulate the
quill strike, etc. and you are ready to compose/perform.? The patch
might sound more authentic by changing the modulator to 5.0 or 6.0,
etc., but it's still going to mimic a harpsichord.
One can then boost the modulation level -- or add more modulators --
to move through 'angry harpsichord,' to 'lunatic harpsichord,' to a
point where the result resembles white noise.? Every one of these
sounds is arguably different, but not always significantly so; nor
are all of them musically useful.? I would suspect that factoring in
usable timbres that don't mimic other instruments, the palette of a
DX7 is still somewhere around a couple thousand sounds.
The Hammond Organ claim is even more ridiculous.? The original claim
was "over 100 million different sounds" -- a number found by
multiplying 9 drawbars * 8 levels.? But 808000000 and 505000000
aren't really different sounds; and 888000008 sounds a lot like
878000016.? There are probably a few dozen basic Hammond sounds, and
most players use the same 5-6.
The one that always struck me funny was the claim (by Dr. Chowning?)
that FM synthesis would ultimately replace all other synthesizers,
since it could simulate anything.? Fourier Analysis states that any
waveform can be expressed as a collection of sine waves at different
frequencies and phase relationships.? So, 'all' one needs to
simulate a Bosendorfer Imperial is a limitless collection of FM
operators, and a formula to decide their proportions and phase
delays!? In practice, though, this is far more difficult to achieve
than practical; so, we have sampling keyboards.
That said, though, FM synthesis has a wonderful, glassy sound that
is very difficult to simulate by other means.? I have pared down my
gigging rig several times over the past couple of years, but a TX802
is still in the mix!
Regards,
-BW
Bruce Wahler
Ashby ?
bw@...
978.597.7008
On 1/20/2020 1:51 PM, LarryS wrote:
After going
through a jillion patches, my ears get numb, leaving me
wondering just how many distinctly different and usable
sounds are in a DX7?
Now yes, of
course, there’s a “non-infinite but very large number” of
theoretical sounds.? Sure.? But are there?? I mean in the
Imitative category, DX strings are maybe 10 sounds before
they sound pretty much the same – and none of them
especially like strings.? Electric Pianos?? Large number,
but same idea.? Total number, maybe 300 or 10 banks.
Similarly, a
Hammond organ.? ? million different sounds.? But how many
has anyone ever used?? A dozen?? Two?? How many can even be
discerned by most ears?
It’s just a
concept I’ve noodle around with – and it’s probably been
discussed long ago, anyway.
?
?
?
I've purchased patch banks
off of ebay for other synths from SoundEngine.? They're
OK.? Library size is not really what you're after,
though.? After digging through a mere 30,000 DX7 patches
from the?Dexed_cart_1.0 patch bank that are online for
free, I'd rather have a library of 500 good ones than
30,000 patches that aren't.? 250,000?? That's too many to
dig through.??
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
Brian,
Thor's website works for me, in an out of date version of Waterfox (based closely on Firefox), with Malwarebytes (Premium) installed.? I get warnings about a lot of sites, but not that one.? I've just checked it, and downloaded the current version of his guide, with no problems.
Thor's site has been around for a while, so I'm sure it's safe to visit - maybe just try a different browser, or add an exception if you're allowed to.
Failing that, is the main document in the Files section here on groups,io?? It seems like it should be added, if not.
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
Bruce,
Re: " 'Sine Fattener' in the TX8i02 User bank"
Is that used as a layered patch in a performance?? Was " TX8i02" a typo, or is it an iOS thing?
I've acquired a TX802 recently.? Layering patches is my main interest in it, at the moment.? I've also started altering a TX802 Ctrlr panel (from the deprecated panels list), to add remote control of the buttons... There are issues with doing that though.
Someone (somewhere - I've lost track), pointed out that layering eight 6op voices makes a 48op patch, with limited polyphony, of course.? I can see that's true in the Hammond organ additive synthesis sense - it could make a 48 drawbar organ, for the two fingered player.? It just rules out having modulation between operators that aren't in the same voice.
From the Fourier analysis point of view, can we directly control the phase of some of the operators?
That seems like the way to get any waveform at all, though that's not all there is to making a realistic sound, of course - it's about how it changes over time too.
I'm interested in making never heard before non-realistic sounds too, but ones that are sort of realistic tend to get my attention better.
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
My TX/DX synths are here to create sounds unlike any other keyboard or
instrument. I have ROMplers if I want “realistic”.
Don B.
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From: sonidium@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Patch Purchasing from eBay
?
Result
can be realistic but that is relative. I remember a time when everyone went on
about how realistic the DX7 Timpani prese was. Only because the only other
electronic instrument it could be compared to was a subtractive
synthesiser. I spent a long time honing that realism into my work using
my ears and an element which was exclusively missing in 6 operator FM
synthesisers until the SY77, noise. The 4 operator series could do this
thanks to faster LFOs, a serious limitation of the DX7 and synthesis of
realistic physical materials. Hence my
videos: https://youtu.be/CdPa6VLi4GQ I have an SY77 now and it is
pure joy for doing this.
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Re: Patch Purchasing from eBay
Isn’t SY-TG/77, SY99, FS1r and Montage answer to your question? Or NI FM8?
And now there’s Kodamo Essence with much improved FM…
Daniel Forro
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On Jan 23, 2020, at 1:18, Bruce Wahler via Groups.Io < bw@...> wrote:
I've often wondered what might have happened to FM synthesis if it
debuted 10-15 years later.? Would Yamaha have been able to increase
the UI, add more operators, and make software tools that would allow
the average musician to better access the potential of the
instruments in real time?? The DX1 had some features along this
line, but its price was beyond the means of an average player.?
Someone could probably do this today, but there's little or no
monetary incentive to do so.
Regards,
-BW
Bruce Wahler
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alesisfusion8hd
Lee Borrell
AndyHornBlower