Thankyou all for comments over the weekend. I will look at the coach pick ups when I get home this evening; I didn’t realise that they may only pick up from one track at each end.?
Also will check the loaded voltages across the boundaries; really hoping not to have to adjust voltage as time to speed test all locos is really limited before next show.?
Thanks All
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Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
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Detailed setup manual for the YD7010?
Hello, I am considering the YD7010 for my model railroad.? Setup should reasonably straightforward as I have no legacy DCC equipment and will only make three connections to the YD7010 (main track, programming track, and LAN).
I have read the quick start manual.? Hopefully, there is a more detailed product manual, particularly in regards to setting up the wifi access point and the need for a full time computer connected to the LAN.? Is there a more detailed manual somewhere or is the release relatively recent and one is in the works?
Thanks, Rick
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On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 08:40 AM, karst.drenth wrote:
Neither Z21 nor DR5033 allows for Common Ground !!?
Both use HBridges.
Karst,
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Can you elaborate on this statement? All of the "classic" boosters I'm familiar with in North America use "H-Bridges", including the ones that I've helped design (CS-105, B-106, and LT-50), as well as popular boosters from CVP Products, Digitrax, some Lenz, and NCE. All of these boosters have the ability to connect up a booster "common", which is not "ground". They all have provisions to connect the "return" side of their internal power supplies to a booster "common".
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In the situation where the booster does not expose the "return" side of its internal power supplies to a terminal, you can still create a booster "common" by tying one phase of the track output from each booster together, similar to classic "common rail" wiring. Lenz even recommended this in their product literature, at least at one time.
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More information about booster commons can be found here:
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I'm struggling to understand what about having an "H-Bridge" you think prevents the ability to support a booster common. ...or have I misinterpreted your statements?
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Thanks,
Stuart
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Dave looks like you are left with extra pickups or adding storage capacitors to supply power while crossing the blocks.
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It always seems odd that some boosters can't handle this as they will get connected this way for short periods as stock crosses block boundaries. I presume these boosters do not have isolated control inputs, as otherwise if fed by separate isolated power supplies there would be no electrical circuit between them.
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Mike
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On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 06:22 AM, Mike wrote:
if the boosters can have it, common one rail between them
Neither Z21 nor DR5033 allows for Common Ground !!? Both use HBridges. Greetz, Karst
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Re: False Positives YD6016
On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 10:56 AM, Iain Morrison wrote:
You are better using LocoNet over TCP, however that is not available from a Z21 and the only way to ensure that the messages are not lost, or significantly reduce the possibility of it being lost is to use a wired connection between the PC running iTrain and the Z21.
Or.... Use the YD7001 for the feedbacks as well. Then you've got the option to use LAN ( LocoNet TCP/IP Binary ) or USB. Greets, Karst
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If your power zones are feed from separately powered boosters and there is no common between them then this is expected behaviour if the coaches are fed by one rail only on each bogie. Same happens to steam locos fed one side from the loco and the other from the tender.
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Either fit pickups to both sides of the bogies or if the boosters can have it, common one rail between them.
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Mike
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Dave, ? Why are you using the sniffer instead of the B-Bus, especially as the B-Bus is for use with Roco? ? You should not need the auto-reverse if you are certain the polarities are the same, but by the same token if they are the same then having it switched on will do nothing. Personally I would leave it on to avoid the potential for a phase reversal. ? IIRC the voltages at the boundary need to be within ?v of each other and I suggest that you check the loaded voltage on both sides of the boundary. Loaded means something drawing current on each side, a voltage without a load can be very misleading. You will be able to adjust the Z21 voltage easily, the DR5033 needs a change of power supply to change the voltage. Remember that if you change the track voltages you may need to remeasure the iTrain speed profiles. ? Iain ?
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From: YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io <YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave via groups.io
Sent: 04 October 2024 13:31
To: YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io
Subject: Crossing Power Zones? My layout is divided into two power zones with double track breaks between each zone. I have a z21 Black and two Dr5033 DigiBoost units connected to the Z21 via their sniffer inputs. All appears to work correctly except: If I run a lighted coach (Pullman) across the zone boundaries the lights go out whilst one bogie is in each zone. Placing a track tester across the zone boundary on opposite lines lights the tester very dimly.? Digiboost is set ?to not auto reverse polarity and polarity is the same in both zones. Train behaviour is normal.?
Can someone confirm if this is normal please? Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
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My layout is divided into two power zones with double track breaks between each zone. I have a z21 Black and two Dr5033 DigiBoost units connected to the Z21 via their sniffer inputs. All appears to work correctly except:
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If I run a lighted coach (Pullman) across the zone boundaries the lights go out whilst one bogie is in each zone. Placing a track tester across the zone boundary on opposite lines lights the tester very dimly.?
Digiboost is set ?to not auto reverse polarity and polarity is the same in both zones. Train behaviour is normal.?
Can someone confirm if this is normal please?
?
Thankyou
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Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
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Re: False Positives YD6016
Thank you Iain, we will certainly do that.?
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Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
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Re: False Positives YD6016
Dave
Using WiFi with a Z21 and automation is always asking for trouble because the Z21 protocol is UDP and as a result data often gets lost. This is not a problem when using a throttle because the command is repeated regularly. An occupancy sensor message is is different from a throttle.
You are better using LocoNet over TCP, however that is not available from a Z21 and the only way to ensure that the messages are not lost, or significantly reduce the possibility of it being lost is to use a wired connection between the PC running iTrain and the Z21.
Karst
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Thankyou for your response; it looks like we may have two problems but I can see they might be related.?
The 1st issue discussed at the start of this thread were two false feedbacks that occurred on two YAMoRc units during a show that we were unable to clear by resetting, turning off and on etc. I am unable to repeat this issue.?
The issues yesterday and today, have occurred on a DR8088LN box and as you say are better described as stuck feedbacks rather than false ones.?
We are using a Z21 black control station connected to iTrain via wireless connection to the a router which has a network cable to the Z21.? Vehicles and feedbacks are all handled by the Z21.?
Z21 Loconet has:
- DR4088LN connected to a DR4088 via S88
- DR4088LN
- YD6016LN connected to a YD6016ES via S88
- DR5088RC
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We use a YD7001 to manage the accessories on a seperate bus.?
we have been running the layout with setup for a couple of years with very few issues.?
The biggest problem in finding the problem is that we can run the layout for several hours with no issues before a problem occurs. But when a problem occurs at a show it can be disastrous, and really embarrassing.
Thanks again for your comments.?
Dave
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Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
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Re: False Positives YD6016
Karst
?
Thankyou for your response; it looks like we may have two problems but I can see they might be related.?
The 1st issue discussed at the start of this thread were two false feedbacks that occurred on two YAMoRc units during a show that we were unable to clear by resetting, turning off and on etc. I am unable to repeat this issue.?
The issues yesterday and today, have occurred on a DR8088LN box and as you say are better described as stuck feedbacks rather than false ones.?
We are using a Z21 black control station connected to iTrain via wireless connection to the a router which has a network cable to the Z21. ?Vehicles and feedbacks are all handled by the Z21.?
Z21 Loconet has:
- DR4088LN connected to a DR4088 via S88
- DR4088LN
- YD6016LN connected to a YD6016ES via S88
- DR5088RC
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We use a YD7001 to manage the accessories on a seperate bus.?
we have been running the layout with setup for a couple of years with very few issues.?
The biggest problem in finding the problem is that we can run the layout for several hours with no issues before a problem occurs. But when a problem occurs at a show it can be disastrous, and really embarrassing.
Thanks again for your comments.?
Dave
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Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
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Re: False Positives YD6016
On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 10:44 AM, Dave wrote:
We have had 6 or 7 false positives today but all could be cleared by activating the false feedbacks using ?track tester or a finger across the rails.?
Okay.... that's not false positive, that's stuck positive....? So it looks like you're on the wrong foot.
we have added 470ohm resistors to all feedback on one of our DR4088LN CS Boxes.
After several hours of running a single train around the layout one feedback failed to de-activate when leaving the block.?
This feedback remained active even when we removed the feed from the DR4088LN.?
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As I already wrote, resistors on a YD6016xx-CS don't help. But acrually you are notalking about the Digikeijs modules, not the YaMoRC ones ?? Those "stuck" feedback originate almostt 100% sure from comminications problem. Either between Modules and the Command Station and/or from Command Station to iTrain. Question: Which connection/protocol do you use to connect iTrain to your command station? Greets, Karst P.S. the DR4088LN are notorious for messing up LocoNet communication.... The YD6016LN though should not give problems.... unless a DR4088LN has "f#%$^-ed" up the LocoNet....?
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Re: False Positives YD6016
Testing Day 2
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we have added 470ohm resistors to all feedback on one of our DR4088LN CS Boxes.
After several hours of running a single train around the layout one feedback failed to de-activate when leaving the block.?
This feedback remained active even when we removed the feed from the DR4088LN.?
The activity light on the box was not flashing when the false positive showed red on Itrain.?
The activity light flashes correctly when another block is activated.?
The problem was cleared by placing a track tester across the block showing the false positive.?
Any help much appreciated!
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Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
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Re: False Positives YD6016
After another day testing today we are no further ahead. However, the problem has in some ways got worse!
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We have had 6 or 7 false positives today but all could be cleared by activating the false feedbacks using ?track tester or a finger across the rails.?
Should we now be adding the resistors between the feedback and the C terminal?
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thankyou
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Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
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Re: False Positives YD6016
On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 05:18 AM, Iain Morrison wrote:
In the other case it proved to be ballast that was causing the issue because the fixing PVA was bridging across the rails
I experienced an even weirder reason on several shows: High temperatures and/or humidity. This could cause ( and did in my case ) occasional bridging of the section gaps...? Next day with lower temps and dry weather, the problem was gone.  Here is another option to "tame" input spikes. It however does not help in case of bridging ( as an extra resistor does not ) Greets, Karst
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Re: False Positives YD6016
Dave, ? I am also surprised with your mail, especially as this is the second case I have heard of in as many days and I understood that the different design of the YD6016xx compared to the DR4088xx (note not the DR4018 ?). In the other case it proved to be ballast that was causing the issue because the fixing PVA was bridging across the rails – could a similar situation be affecting you? ? Iain ?
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From: YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io <YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave via groups.io
Sent: 02 October 2024 07:43
To: YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io
Subject: False Positives YD6016? I have recently experienced an issue with false positive feedbacks on two YD6016 boxes, one was an LN and the other an ES unit.? I am aware if a solution that Iain M shared in a post some time ago using 500 ohm resistors on the DR4018 units which were over sensitive but was surprised to see the same issue on the new YD units.? The problem occurred on the second day of running at a model railway show, and it occurred on both boxes at around the same time. The layout had need running on the previous day all day with no issues. On the second day after about 5 hours we noticed 2 false positives, on different sections of the layout, one on a YD6016LN and the other on a YD6016ES (both connected together). Yesterday I set up the layout again to try and resolve this problem but the problem had disappeared! ?At the show we reset the layout several times but could not clear the issue. our only solution on the day was to remove the feedbacks from Itrain and run the layout in a much reduced way.? Any thoughts on how I might protect myself from this re-occurring as it caused considerable disruption at the show.? Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
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I have recently experienced an issue with false positive feedbacks on two YD6016 boxes, one was an LN and the other an ES unit.?
?
I am aware if a solution that Iain M shared in a post some time ago using 500 ohm resistors on the DR4018 units which were over sensitive but was surprised to see the same issue on the new YD units.?
The problem occurred on the second day of running at a model railway show, and it occurred on both boxes at around the same time. The layout had need running on the previous day all day with no issues. On the second day after about 5 hours we noticed 2 false positives, on different sections of the layout, one on a YD6016LN and the other on a YD6016ES (both connected together).
?
Yesterday I set up the layout again to try and resolve this problem but the problem had disappeared! ?At the show we reset the layout several times but could not clear the issue. our only solution on the day was to remove the feedbacks from Itrain and run the layout in a much reduced way.?
Any thoughts on how I might protect myself from this re-occurring as it caused considerable disruption at the show.?
?
Thankyou?
?
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Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
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Re: DR4018 misbehaving after connection to iTrain
iTrain doesn’t have any issue with CV47=1 on the DR4018, I have several setup like that and they are all working perfectly – as you will be able to see if you meet me at an exhibition of my layout (next exhibition is Stafford in 3 weeks ?) I also have 36 MP1s driven by DR4018 set to CV47=6. ?
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From: YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io <YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io> On Behalf Of rog.pearson via groups.io
Sent: 04 September 2024 21:48
To: YaMoRC-Digikeijs@groups.io
Subject: Re: DR4018 misbehaving after connection to iTrain? Many thanks to Dennis for uploading the Digikeijs Products/DR4018-DK50018 Switch Decoder/SPECIAL CONFIGURATIONS/Special Preset 1 (1-12) Preset 6 (13-14).pdf. This is precisely the settings I had. It appears that iTrain doesn't like the CV47=1 on my system as the act of connecting sent the MP1s into constant switching and the signals failing to work. Setting the Cv47=6 seems to work for the MP1s but at the expense of my 3 aspect signal not working.
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Re: DR4018 misbehaving after connection to iTrain
Many thanks to Dennis for uploading the Digikeijs Products/DR4018-DK50018 Switch Decoder/SPECIAL CONFIGURATIONS/Special Preset 1 (1-12) Preset 6 (13-14).pdf.
This is precisely the settings I had. It appears that iTrain doesn't like the CV47=1 on my system as the act of connecting sent the MP1s into constant switching and the signals failing to work.
Setting the Cv47=6 seems to work for the MP1s but at the expense of my 3 aspect signal not working.
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Dave
karst.drenth