开云体育

Thanks Fabio for the reply. I opened my PDF copy of the 464 manual and found the +15 volt end of the wire on the TRIG-VIEW switch but didn't know where it went from there. Did some careful perusing of the TRIG-GENERATOR SWEEP BOARD and found it at the bottom as you descibed it so then after I got my early 466 manual searched it out and found it also.
Appreciate the description of the circuit and also the chip diffs

i have started to put together the list of capacitors I am going to need and have pulled the 6 caps from the interface board for the 466 I did not have any real problem getting them off was a bit hesitant at first because of the horror stories on here from folks doing that. Some time back I picked up a real nice desoldering tool from Radio Shack it is a bulb sucker type with the bulb attached above the handle and to the tip with a tube so you can put the tip on the connection to be unsoldered and when soft just release the bulb cleans off and out all the solder.
Once I got the first one out it was easy to see how they were attached just put the tip hole down over the small pins first sucked out the solder so they were loose the worked on the big one wiggling the cap while heating took two three time to get it loose big hole filled up with solder on that one.

Have a question on two of the tant caps used in the power supply for one section of the output they are two 47uf 25v caps # 1712 & 1713 they are in a half wave rectified section and across the output for the +140v supply it seems that 25v is a bit low here? Any comments here?

Jim

From: Daveolla <grobbins@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 7:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

Hey Mike, you know that iron I have with the red bulb. Ive used it
but perhaps I need to try it again and reassess its crappyness UD

From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

I have on hand about 100 lbs of 63/37 solder bars
that came from the wave soldering machine of one of
your competitors at microdyne. I know it is what
they used because it came with the wave soldering
machine when it was scrapped.

Also, when I worked for DEI back in the '70s, they
used 63/37 for their reflow machines.

On boards that get solder plated, the alloy is somewhat
imprecise, and it is possible that the imprecision of
that plated alloy will have diluted the 63/37 solder
to make it have a higher melting point.

But as a former solder plater, I can assure you that
we tried very hard not to let the alloy shift much
because it made the reflow process fail.

-Chuck Harris



Michael A. Terrell wrote:
...
Also, keep in mind that the solder used for wave soldering has a higher melting
temperature than that used for hand soldering. If you don't get it all out on the
first try, refill the through hole with 63/37 solder and try again.

I had some from a company around Orlando that was 80/20. I thought that was odd, but it was in the original containers. We also got tons of what the wave solder machines in the area skimmed as waste. We sold it to a company that made cheap solder to re-refine. Another source was from a company that made marine wiring harnesses. 30 years ago, there were a lot of companies in Orlando using tons of solder.

Did you do any work with reflow ovens?

I never used a wave solder machine, but we had three reflow ovens at Microdyne. Two older 'pizza oven' models, and a new Heller with computer controlled, multiple zone operation that stored the profile for every board that we built.


Michael A. Terrell

From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.

Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.

But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.

I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.

Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.

-Chuck Harris

From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines.? I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop.? I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating.? I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to.? Which was a lot.? I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.

Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.

But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.

I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C.? That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.

Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry.? It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.

-Chuck Harris

From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.

Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.

But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.

I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.

Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.

-Chuck Harris

From: Ray Burke <burke.ray@...>
Sent: Jul 27, 2018 10:10 AM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless?because you cant get the tips any more, no more Radio Shack.? I have used the?Radio Shack Desoldering bulb, (have one).? Solder Wick, Solder Suckers?and other tools, while they are cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards).? Don't use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards.? Use at least a good?Desoldering gun or station.? Use at least a Hakko FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work.? I?just?used it to repair my wife's monitor?that died?with no power, and opened it up and found?about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the power supply, and fixed it.? After getting the caps at Fry's it only took? me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO PULLED PADS.? One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best.? I got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and Hakko had?the tips for the thing.? Now you could?get some cheap Chinese knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all.? ??Buy at least a Hakko?and you?won't be disappointed.?The other main desoldering companies are more expensive.? You could check out the tear apart videos of the ?www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.???

On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@...> wrote:


I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good solder, because there was very little waste.

We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around 1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production line in one of the Orlando plants.

Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with, even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few months, as they continued to refine the profiles.

Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF from a 1700 foot tower. :)

Michael A. Terrell

From: "Ray Burke" <burke.ray@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 9:10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless?because you cant get the tips any
more, no more Radio Shack.? I have used the?Radio Shack Desoldering bulb,
(have one).? Solder Wick, Solder Suckers?and other tools, while they are
cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through
holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards).? Don't
use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards.
? Use at least a good?Desoldering gun or station.? Use at least a Hakko
FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are
others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work.? I
?just?used it to repair my wifes monitor?that died?with no power, and opened
it up and found?about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the
power supply, and fixed it.? After getting the caps at Fry's it only took
? me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO
PULLED PADS.? One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best.? I
got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and
Hakko had?the tips for the thing.? Now you could?get some cheap Chinese
knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all.? ??Buy at
least a Hakko?and you?won't be disappointed.?The other main desoldering
companies are more expensive.? You could check out the tear apart videos of
the ?www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.

On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@...> wrote:


I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain
of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local
parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through
our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which
was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by
Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an
hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin
Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good
solder, because there was very little waste.

We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around
1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production
line in one of the Orlando plants.

Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with,
even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had
to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder
balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early
ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were
tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality
hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow
profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few
months, as they continued to refine the profiles.

Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different
route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF
from a 1700 foot tower. :)

Michael A. Terrell


-----Original Message-----

From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines.? I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop.? I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating.? I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to.? Which was a lot.? I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.

Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.

But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.

I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C.? That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.

Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry.? It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.

-Chuck Harris

I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

On 27 Jul 2018, at 19:57, stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

If the parts don't fall out by their own weight there's something
wrong with your desoldering tool.

That transformer I mentioned the other day, which I changed 50+ times,
I did that with the (very modified) chinese Zhongdi station.
It was a 12 pin throughhole part, ground planes on one side of it, but
I did oversize the holes slightly. I always do that on prototypes
where I expect to change parts often, otherwise 50+ soldering cycles
is unrealistic and the board is toast after maybe 10-20 cycles.

I would not want to work without a desoldering station, those spring
loaded eye pokers or desoldering braid do not even compare.
Sometimes when I make prototypes I steal comonents from junk boards
rather than get my ass out of the chair and fetch new ones, that's how
a decent desoldering tool must work, at minimum.

ST

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 8:47 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:47:33 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.

Selecting the tip temperature is important (where this adjustment is
available).

Heating the joint all the way through is also critical. Don't be
afraid to add solder so that no air gets sucked in.

The ones with the built in pumps are most convenient, but I wonder if
the ones that run off compressed air (bernouli principle) don't have a
sharper vacuum pulse.

The right tip diameter is also important.

Cleaning out the tips and filters is pretty critical, no suction, no
desoldering.

Harvey

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ray Burke" <burke.ray@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 9:10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless because you cant get the tips any
more, no more Radio Shack. I have used the Radio Shack Desoldering bulb,
(have one). Solder Wick, Solder Suckers and other tools, while they are
cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through
holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards). Don't
use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards.
Use at least a good Desoldering gun or station. Use at least a Hakko
FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are
others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work. I
just used it to repair my wifes monitor that died with no power, and opened
it up and found about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the
power supply, and fixed it. After getting the caps at Fry's it only took
me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO
PULLED PADS. One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best. I
got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and
Hakko had the tips for the thing. Now you could get some cheap Chinese
knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all. Buy at
least a Hakko and you won't be disappointed. The other main desoldering
companies are more expensive. You could check out the tear apart videos of
the www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.

On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@...> wrote:


I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain
of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local
parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through
our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which
was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by
Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an
hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin
Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good
solder, because there was very little waste.

We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around
1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production
line in one of the Orlando plants.

Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with,
even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had
to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder
balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early
ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were
tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality
hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow
profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few
months, as they continued to refine the profiles.

Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different
route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF
from a 1700 foot tower. :)

Michael A. Terrell


-----Original Message-----

From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.

Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.

But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.

I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.

Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.

-Chuck Harris

On 27 Jul 2018, at 20:29, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 20:18:57 +0100, you wrote:

I have a unit I like, has gun type with solder sucking pump through to the gun. However I seem to struggle when it comes to large planes of copper attached to the pad, am I doing something wrong or?

Likely not. If it's a Hakko 808 (which I have) you don't control the
temperature, it's preset. You likely don't have enough heat at the
point of contact (I'm assuming something other than surface mount
parts, not including TO-252 parts with tabs). One trick is to have a
second soldering pencil to add heat and keep the solder liquid.

Harvey

Cheers Kevin

Thanks
Kevin

On 27 Jul 2018, at 19:57, stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

If the parts don't fall out by their own weight there's something
wrong with your desoldering tool.

That transformer I mentioned the other day, which I changed 50+ times,
I did that with the (very modified) chinese Zhongdi station.
It was a 12 pin throughhole part, ground planes on one side of it, but
I did oversize the holes slightly. I always do that on prototypes
where I expect to change parts often, otherwise 50+ soldering cycles
is unrealistic and the board is toast after maybe 10-20 cycles.

I would not want to work without a desoldering station, those spring
loaded eye pokers or desoldering braid do not even compare.
Sometimes when I make prototypes I steal comonents from junk boards
rather than get my ass out of the chair and fetch new ones, that's how
a decent desoldering tool must work, at minimum.

ST

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 8:47 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 20:18:57 +0100, you wrote:

I have a unit I like, has gun type with solder sucking pump through to the gun. However I seem to struggle when it comes to large planes of copper attached to the pad, am I doing something wrong or?

Likely not. If it's a Hakko 808 (which I have) you don't control the
temperature, it's preset.