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Re: 465B Focus Troubleshooting

 

I haven't been following this discussion, but would recommend considering another possibility (if not already mentioned) that a gain stage may be oscillating at a very high frequency, adding apparent fuzziness to the trace. If this is happening in the vertical, and the BW limit has no effect, then it's likely past the BW limiter, like in the output amplifier. If it's in the horizontal, there may be sweep position or rate effects. Maybe lead dress or component position, or a loose grounding screw? I suppose this could also happen in the Z-axis, but you'd probably see it in the test point signal.

Ed
Re: DC508A Display

 

I had never heard of an 8T06, but I looked at the data sheet, and it does indeed seem bass-ackwards - the outputs are low to turn OFF the segments, for common-cathode LED displays. I guess that way you could have that choice, or the 7447 type for common-anode displays, depending on the relative cost and availability of the various displays at the time. One benefit I suppose is that with the 8T06, the display current is fairly constant overall, since it operates in shunt mode, taking the LED currents away into the outputs. This would make the display load ripple current much lower than all the way on and off series current switching.

Ed
Re: Movie on Tek's early days, last link was corrupted

 

Thanks for the link! I enjoyed watching that. I grew up on the Oregon coast, graduating HS in 1986, and lived there most of my life until recently moving out east. I never had even heard of Tektronix until acquiring my dad's 475 last spring. I work for another large, privately-held (though, probably not for much longer) long-time Oregon company, JELD-WEN Windows and Doors. I had never heard of them either until I landed a corporate pilot job with them back in 1998. Dick Wendt, founder of the company, was the Howard Vollum of JELD-WEN and was very much like Vollum. Wendt died in 2010 and JELD-WEN was bought by private equity in 2011 and is now based in Charlotte, NC. It's hard to watch the same kind of family atmosphere it used to be change to the "quarterly earnings for stockholders" atmosphere, as the Tek piece describes.

Nothing is constant but change. The Camelots grow but never stay.

John

To: tekscopes@...; tekscopes2@...
From: TekScopes@...
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 23:30:08 +0000
Subject: [TekScopes] Movie on Tek's early days, last link was corrupted




























URL was corrupted in my last post; here it is again:

halfway down the page to the movie clip, abt 30 min long.



HankC, Boston WA1HOS



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: 465B Focus Troubleshooting

 

On 28 Mar 2016 12:26:24 -0700, you wrote:

---In TekScopes@..., <davidwhess@...> wrote :

It does look like there is something wrong with the focus. Vertical
blurring could be caused by wide bandwidth noise since it is a 100 MHz
oscilloscope but the horizontal blurring matches it so something else
is going on.

Your measurement of TP4217 does not look correct at all. It needs to
be made with a x10 probe to preserve bandwidth and should look like a
clean square wave.

As far as noise from the vertical amplifier, turning on the 20 MHz
bandwidth limit will lower the noise level. You can also disconnect
the CRT leads from the vertical amplifier but be careful not to damage
the CRT.


I was able to get a clean square wave on TP4217 with a new set of probes. I edited the post and labeled the clean waveform picture, ops. ^^ The old probe was one of those cheap twist for x1 or x10 and gave intermittent signals.
I see that now. TP4217 looks fine.

There's no difference when turning on the 20 MHz limit. I do see something that bothers me on one of the connections to the CRT. If I can capture a picture of it I'll post it.
Four things occur to me which could cause this:

1. The CRT may be old. When you turn the intensity up, does the trace
spread before becoming bright? Check for double peaking where the
brightness dips as the intensity is increased.

2. Ripple on the -2450 volt cathode supply would vary the horizontal
and vertical deflection making the display look fuzzy away from the
center. The one photograph does not show this so I do not think this
is the problem. You could carefully look for ripple on cathode supply
using a high voltage capacitor and precharge resistor to coupling it
to an oscilloscope probe.

3. Could there be an external AC magnetic field? Check the location
of the oscilloscope for this. Is the CRT shield in place?

4. Noise on both the horizontal and vertical CRT outputs could cause
this. Disconnecting the vertical CRT leads will reveal if this is the
case.
Re: TDS 54x Acquisition troubleshooting

 

Hey y'all,

seems that Tek may not be scrubbing their forums as I'd assumed. You can
still search them directly for relevant terms like <
> or e.g. <
>. They seem to have
somehow wiggled out from underneath the links in Google search, though.

Siggi

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 at 19:52 Sigur?ur ?sgeirsson <siggi@...> wrote:

Hey Paul,

sorry to confuse the issue. I don't think the FAS will enable or disable
options for you. It may however (I've never looked at the TDS540 FAS) declare
the memory location of the byte that holds the flag.
Sadly it appears that Tek is scrubbing their forum of the details, but
here's an EEVBlog thread <
(tds754d)/>
for how this might be done through the serial console. Here's <
>
a similar thread on EEVBlog for how to use GPIB.
It appears the addresses are the same whether you use GPIB or a console
serial port, but the "poke" command is different depending on the mode of
access. If you want to write to the NVRAM directly, presumably you need to
find it's base address in the processor's address space and subtract that
from the address.

As for how to come by these addresses, in e.g. the TDS784D FAS, I see
config files named by the scope types. In a file named TDS784D.CON,
containing lines such as "VAR = hwAOption1M(UNIT "" VALUE 327686)" which
relates the address of the 1M option flag (327686 decimal is 0x50006
hex). It's possible that the options are always at the same address,
scope model and age be damned, but I don't know that. If your FAS declares
this somewhere for your scope's type, that'd be a good place to nab it.

Caveat: I've never done any of the above.

Siggi

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 at 17:51 paul huguenin tigrol.lechat@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



Hello,

Thanks Siggi, I must admit that was a little steep for a first experience
on a Tek DSO.

I have found the FAS for the TDS544A on KO4BB, run it on Windows 7 with
DOSbox emulator, from what I see it will only use two models of 8bit ISA
NI
GPIB cards.
It seems a shame to find an old 90's card just for that purpose when I
have
not yet invested in a recent GPIB interface.
There was nothing obvious in terms of software options in the config
files,
it could be stored in main .EXE for this older version.

The most convenient for me would either be directly editing the NVRAM with
a programmer or using RS232 somehow. Shouldn't all that is done with GPIB
be possible with the serial console too?

The other problem is the calibration, DC balance seems to need adjusting,
the mean values measured by the scope change depending on horizontal range
and position (offset) on the screen, any way I can work around that
without
the antique FAS and required hardware?

Paul

2016-03-27 1:27 GMT+01:00 Sigur?ur ?sgeirsson siggi@... [TekScopes]
<
TekScopes@...>:



Hey Paul,

Congrats on the fix.
Do you have the field adjust software for your scopes? The FAS for my
TDS
784D declares the addresses/locations for the software option flags in a
config file of some sort. There are threads on the Tek forum on how to
apply those with a serial console connection and GPIB (I forget the
details).

Siggi
On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 19:39 paul huguenin tigrol.lechat@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



I realized there were too many conditions in the GPIB interface
question...

My problem on the TDS544A turned out to be a cut trace under VR1664.

Both TP1608 and TP1658 are now at -6.73V, still not the values on the
schematic, they are similar on both working scopes though.

I had dumped the NVRAM (Desoldered and socketed) on the 544A before
recaping, since I have read here that it is not uncommon that the
NVRAMs
die on desoldering, is it worth the risk dumping the TDS540 NVRAM too?

Now the scopes are working is there a simple way to enable options
software
options? (Still no GPIB)

Thanks,

Paul



2016-03-26 2:39 GMT+01:00 paul huguenin <tigrol.lechat@...>:

Hello,

Quick and late (here) update:

The TDS544A had been put aside a while, the TDS540 passed self tests
but
needed a recap for A11 and A12 boards, A10 had been taken care of by
someone before things turned bad.
Now I have a working scope to confront the failing TDS544A with.

The test point TP1608 is at -6.72V, TP1658 at -6.74V in the working
scope.
Just for future reference.

What would be a good choice/source for a budget USB GPIB interface?
Avoiding fakes.


Paul

2016-03-25 9:00 GMT+01:00 kennedy.simon@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...>:

TL074/TL072 work fine. Glad the schematics have made it to KO4BB.

I'm not too sure what the voltages should be at those test points.
I
would strongly suggest tying to find a GPIB adaptor somehow as it
makes
this debugging quite a lot easier. I had problems with the error
log
getting too long to find the latest errors.


Even if the traces looks like they are connected make sure to check
them
with a multimeter for continuity.


Simon






------------------------------------
Posted by: kennedy.simon@...
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: =?UTF-8?B?U2lndXLDsHVyIMOBc2dlaXJzc29u?= <siggi@...>

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links
Re: DC508A Display

 

I am not sure if you are referring to the DC508A which uses the 7447
or the SG503 which uses the Signetics 8T06 but both decoders use
positive logic BCD inputs and open collector outputs so there should
not be any problem adding a pair of transistors to add the tails to
the 6 and 9.

Maybe I do not understand what want to accomplish?

On 28 Mar 2016 13:22:07 -0700, you wrote:

Hi,

Since this decoder works by shorting the segments switched off, modification will be more difficult because it will need to cut some trace. I plan to do it with a little Picaxe microcontroler in replacement of the decoder.
Re: 2465B firmware revs

 



They are listed by part number / IC number.


Mike






I looked for it but I could not find the files.

Is there a 'link'?

Thanks.

Joe

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:36 PM
To: 2465bct@... [TekScopes]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: 2465B firmware revs

Oops!

TekWiki only has ROM images for the 04, 06, 07 and 10 revisions.
>> TekWiki only has ROM images for the 04, 04, 07 and 10 revisions. In
>> particular, the 11 revision - which does actually add features - is not
>> present, nor have I found it anywhere. I would still like a copy of that.

Mike

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





--
Best regards,
2465bct mailto:2465bct@...
Re: TDS 54x Acquisition troubleshooting

 

Hey Paul,

sorry to confuse the issue. I don't think the FAS will enable or disable
options for you. It may however (I've never looked at the TDS540 FAS) declare
the memory location of the byte that holds the flag.
Sadly it appears that Tek is scrubbing their forum of the details, but
here's an EEVBlog thread <
(tds754d)/>
for how this might be done through the serial console. Here's <
>
a similar thread on EEVBlog for how to use GPIB.
It appears the addresses are the same whether you use GPIB or a console
serial port, but the "poke" command is different depending on the mode of
access. If you want to write to the NVRAM directly, presumably you need to
find it's base address in the processor's address space and subtract that
from the address.

As for how to come by these addresses, in e.g. the TDS784D FAS, I see
config files named by the scope types. In a file named TDS784D.CON,
containing lines such as "VAR = hwAOption1M(UNIT "" VALUE 327686)" which
relates the address of the 1M option flag (327686 decimal is 0x50006 hex). It's
possible that the options are always at the same address, scope model and
age be damned, but I don't know that. If your FAS declares this somewhere
for your scope's type, that'd be a good place to nab it.

Caveat: I've never done any of the above.

Siggi

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 at 17:51 paul huguenin tigrol.lechat@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



Hello,

Thanks Siggi, I must admit that was a little steep for a first experience
on a Tek DSO.

I have found the FAS for the TDS544A on KO4BB, run it on Windows 7 with
DOSbox emulator, from what I see it will only use two models of 8bit ISA NI
GPIB cards.
It seems a shame to find an old 90's card just for that purpose when I have
not yet invested in a recent GPIB interface.
There was nothing obvious in terms of software options in the config files,
it could be stored in main .EXE for this older version.

The most convenient for me would either be directly editing the NVRAM with
a programmer or using RS232 somehow. Shouldn't all that is done with GPIB
be possible with the serial console too?

The other problem is the calibration, DC balance seems to need adjusting,
the mean values measured by the scope change depending on horizontal range
and position (offset) on the screen, any way I can work around that without
the antique FAS and required hardware?

Paul

2016-03-27 1:27 GMT+01:00 Sigur?ur ?sgeirsson siggi@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...>:



Hey Paul,

Congrats on the fix.
Do you have the field adjust software for your scopes? The FAS for my TDS
784D declares the addresses/locations for the software option flags in a
config file of some sort. There are threads on the Tek forum on how to
apply those with a serial console connection and GPIB (I forget the
details).

Siggi
On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 19:39 paul huguenin tigrol.lechat@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



I realized there were too many conditions in the GPIB interface
question...

My problem on the TDS544A turned out to be a cut trace under VR1664.

Both TP1608 and TP1658 are now at -6.73V, still not the values on the
schematic, they are similar on both working scopes though.

I had dumped the NVRAM (Desoldered and socketed) on the 544A before
recaping, since I have read here that it is not uncommon that the
NVRAMs
die on desoldering, is it worth the risk dumping the TDS540 NVRAM too?

Now the scopes are working is there a simple way to enable options
software
options? (Still no GPIB)

Thanks,

Paul



2016-03-26 2:39 GMT+01:00 paul huguenin <tigrol.lechat@...>:

Hello,

Quick and late (here) update:

The TDS544A had been put aside a while, the TDS540 passed self tests
but
needed a recap for A11 and A12 boards, A10 had been taken care of by
someone before things turned bad.
Now I have a working scope to confront the failing TDS544A with.

The test point TP1608 is at -6.72V, TP1658 at -6.74V in the working
scope.
Just for future reference.

What would be a good choice/source for a budget USB GPIB interface?
Avoiding fakes.


Paul

2016-03-25 9:00 GMT+01:00 kennedy.simon@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...>:

TL074/TL072 work fine. Glad the schematics have made it to KO4BB.

I'm not too sure what the voltages should be at those test points. I
would strongly suggest tying to find a GPIB adaptor somehow as it
makes
this debugging quite a lot easier. I had problems with the error log
getting too long to find the latest errors.


Even if the traces looks like they are connected make sure to check
them
with a multimeter for continuity.


Simon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: kennedy.simon@...
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: =?UTF-8?B?U2lndXLDsHVyIMOBc2dlaXJzc29u?= <siggi@...>

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: 2465B firmware revs

 

I looked for it but I could not find the files.



Is there a 'link'?



Thanks.



Joe



From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:36 PM
To: 2465bct@... [TekScopes]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: 2465B firmware revs





Oops!

TekWiki only has ROM images for the 04, 06, 07 and 10 revisions.

TekWiki only has ROM images for the 04, 04, 07 and 10 revisions. In
particular, the 11 revision - which does actually add features - is not
present, nor have I found it anywhere. I would still like a copy of that.
Mike
Movie on Tek's early days, last link was corrupted

 

URL was corrupted in my last post; here it is again:
halfway down the page to the movie clip, abt 30 min long.

?HankC, Boston WA1HOS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: 2465B firmware revs

 

Oops!

TekWiki only has ROM images for the 04, 06, 07 and 10 revisions.

TekWiki only has ROM images for the 04, 04, 07 and 10 revisions. In
particular, the 11 revision - which does actually add features - is not
present, nor have I found it anywhere. I would still like a copy of that.

Mike
Re: 2465B firmware revs

 

So far as I know, it is not necessary. I personally consider it to be
desirable. The only reason for a ROM upgrade - barring hardware changes (which
do not appear to be relevant for the processor ROM) is that an updated ROM
would normally only be released for bug fixes or improvements. Generally,
there is no way to tell what was changed, but I have seen posts by people who
have upgraded their ROM version. Other than a possibly required calibration
(to the 06 or or 07 version?) there have been no reported issues.

The -11 ROM (which I still haven't found) is different in that it does
actually include user level feature upgrades. All minor, but they are
mentioned in the operator's manual in a few places. Some of those upgrades
appear to be desirable. Not critical, but desirable.


Mike







Hello


Mine has the update 07 and wondering, too, if it was necessary to put the 10?
A response of experts would be welcome
Thank you

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





--
Best regards,
2465bct mailto:2465bct@...
Re: 2465B firmware revs

 

TekWiki only has ROM images for the 04, 04, 07 and 10 revisions. In
particular, the 11 revision - which does actually add features - is not
present, nor have I found it anywhere. I would still like a copy of that.

They do have the -04 version of the GPIB optiom ROMs. My scope has the -01
version. I have read that the GPIB feature sometimes has problems (not quite
sure what), it is possible that the -04 revision fixes that.

The don't have any of the ROMs for the CTT option.

That is 160-5370-11 (U2160) and 160-5371-11 (U2260) for the pre B050xxxx 2465B
scopes.


Mike






firmware here :?ROM images - TekWiki

|
|
|
| | |

|

|
|
| |
ROM images - TekWiki
| |

|

|

On Monday, March 28, 2016 9:13 PM, "dosmith54@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:


?
Hi Dave,

I posted this image from my 2467b, I'm not sure its applicable to other series.

Dallas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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--
Best regards,
2465bct mailto:2465bct@...
Re: TDS 54x Acquisition troubleshooting

 

Hello,

Thanks Siggi, I must admit that was a little steep for a first experience
on a Tek DSO.

I have found the FAS for the TDS544A on KO4BB, run it on Windows 7 with
DOSbox emulator, from what I see it will only use two models of 8bit ISA NI
GPIB cards.
It seems a shame to find an old 90's card just for that purpose when I have
not yet invested in a recent GPIB interface.
There was nothing obvious in terms of software options in the config files,
it could be stored in main .EXE for this older version.

The most convenient for me would either be directly editing the NVRAM with
a programmer or using RS232 somehow. Shouldn't all that is done with GPIB
be possible with the serial console too?

The other problem is the calibration, DC balance seems to need adjusting,
the mean values measured by the scope change depending on horizontal range
and position (offset) on the screen, any way I can work around that without
the antique FAS and required hardware?

Paul

2016-03-27 1:27 GMT+01:00 Sigur?ur ?sgeirsson siggi@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...>:

Hey Paul,

Congrats on the fix.
Do you have the field adjust software for your scopes? The FAS for my TDS
784D declares the addresses/locations for the software option flags in a
config file of some sort. There are threads on the Tek forum on how to
apply those with a serial console connection and GPIB (I forget the
details).

Siggi
On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 19:39 paul huguenin tigrol.lechat@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



I realized there were too many conditions in the GPIB interface
question...

My problem on the TDS544A turned out to be a cut trace under VR1664.

Both TP1608 and TP1658 are now at -6.73V, still not the values on the
schematic, they are similar on both working scopes though.

I had dumped the NVRAM (Desoldered and socketed) on the 544A before
recaping, since I have read here that it is not uncommon that the NVRAMs
die on desoldering, is it worth the risk dumping the TDS540 NVRAM too?

Now the scopes are working is there a simple way to enable options
software
options? (Still no GPIB)

Thanks,

Paul



2016-03-26 2:39 GMT+01:00 paul huguenin <tigrol.lechat@...>:

Hello,

Quick and late (here) update:

The TDS544A had been put aside a while, the TDS540 passed self tests
but
needed a recap for A11 and A12 boards, A10 had been taken care of by
someone before things turned bad.
Now I have a working scope to confront the failing TDS544A with.

The test point TP1608 is at -6.72V, TP1658 at -6.74V in the working
scope.
Just for future reference.

What would be a good choice/source for a budget USB GPIB interface?
Avoiding fakes.


Paul

2016-03-25 9:00 GMT+01:00 kennedy.simon@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...>:

TL074/TL072 work fine. Glad the schematics have made it to KO4BB.

I'm not too sure what the voltages should be at those test points. I
would strongly suggest tying to find a GPIB adaptor somehow as it
makes
this debugging quite a lot easier. I had problems with the error log
getting too long to find the latest errors.


Even if the traces looks like they are connected make sure to check
them
with a multimeter for continuity.


Simon


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Posted by: kennedy.simon@...
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Yahoo Groups Links











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Posted by: =?UTF-8?B?U2lndXLDsHVyIMOBc2dlaXJzc29u?= <siggi@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Free for postage: ISA analog and digital I/O boards

Brad Thompson
 

Hello--

I'm offering the following collection of ISA-bus data-acquisition circuit boards in as-is condition and free
for postage plus a little extra to cover the PayPal bite and my coffee consumption:

Computerboards CIO-PDIS016 (qty. 2)
National Instruments LAB-PC (qty. 1)
Unknown (IBM?) p/n 6323710 (qty. 1) Labeled "Data & Control Adapt."

TUN100L V 2.2 (FCC ID: JRS-TUN100) (TV/FM receiver?) (qty. 1) (RF tuner can is labeled "Philips Hyperband Ready") (EISA extended card-edge connectors)
PCL-745B Rev. A2 ISolated RS-422/485 Card (qty. 1) (EISA extended card-edge connectors)

Depending on leftover space in the USPS Priority flat-rate carton, I may be able to include other
data-acquisition-related boards.

Again, please note that these boards are offered as-is; in the worst case, you can harvest the A/D
ICs or other components. I'm asking $16.00 which includes Priority-mail shipment to U.S. addresses.

Questions welcomed, PayPal honored.

Thanks, and 73--

Brad AA1IP
Re: 2465B firmware revs

 

This was the same image loaded to Tekwiki as I loaded up to TekScopes.

Dallas


---In TekScopes@..., <fonfonnicolas@...> wrote :

firmware here : ROM images - TekWiki

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On Monday, March 28, 2016 9:13 PM, "dosmith54@... mailto:dosmith54@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@... mailto:TekScopes@...> wrote:



Hi Dave,

I posted this image from my 2467b, I'm not sure its applicable to other series.

Dallas
Tektronix early flik here: http://www.opb.org/artsandlife/series/historical-photo/oregon-historical-photo-vintage-tektronix/

 

HankC, Boston WA1HOS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2465B U400 Availability?

 

I'm looking at buying a 2465B that's supposedly needs a U400. Scope appears to work somewhat (calibrator trace looks good, etc.) and price is good.

I'm wondering what I may be getting into here. Are U400's very hard to find at a reasonable price? I see them on eBay but wondered if there's a better source (perhaps here?) for them.

Also, is it "normal" for the 2465B to display any trace (e.g. the calibrator) when U400 is bad? In other words, I'm wondering if U400 is really the problem with it or possibly something else (apparently it won't calibrate). NVRAM maybe?

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
Re: DC508A Display

 

Hi,

Since this decoder works by shorting the segments switched off, modification will be more difficult because it will need to cut some trace. I plan to do it with a little Picaxe microcontroler in replacement of the decoder.
Re: 2465B firmware revs

 

firmware here :?ROM images - TekWiki

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On Monday, March 28, 2016 9:13 PM, "dosmith54@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:


?
Hi Dave,

I posted this image from my 2467b, I'm not sure its applicable to other series.

Dallas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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