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On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:32:32 -0600, you wrote:

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 12:46 AM, David <davidwhess@...> wrote:

Nixie and you are right and I am wrong; the 8T06 output is inverted.
The idea is so weird that I though Signetics wrote the truth table
strangely.

The 8T04/8T05/8T06 are Signetics equivalents of the 7447/7448/7449,
with a different pinout. Hard to understand why they thought that was
a good idea.

It is a way to make a common cathode driver with all NPN transistors.
I do not know why emitter followers with a 4.1 volt output minimum
would have not worked though.

I would not hesitate to buy?a 2465B with a trace for under $100.
Once home with this reassure I would measure all voltages and most likely replace all electrolytics.? Then borrow a U400 from my parts scope and go from there.

From: "Barry n4buq@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 2465B U400 Availability?

? It's a Craigslist sale and I don't know the fellow; however, he does seem to know more than simply "it powers on but don't know much more about it than that". From the ad, I think he may have tried to calibrate it (or have it calibrated) and discovered a fault in U400 but I don't know that for sure.

I have a 2445 that I can try swapping U400 as a test.

As far as price being commensurate with condition, it's well under $100 so I'm pretty sure I won't go wrong with it since it at least displays a decent calibrator trace and appears clean, etc.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----

From: "machine guy machineguy59@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 11:56:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 2465B U400 Availability?

The U400 could cause problems in calibration but it is difficult to tell
without testing.? However, it is possible to display a vertical trace?even
when there are certain faults in U400.
Unfortunately, U400 is harder to obtain?than other parts and most sellers
?(eBay?and otherwise) price accordingly.
You could consider buying a low price "parts scope" to cannibalize for parts.
? Most 2445 and 2465 parts will fit the 2465B.? The U400 fits them all.
Much of your decision depends on the credibility of the seller and the price.
? Perhaps you can negotiate a price dependent on repair costs.

From: "Barry n4buq@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 3:34 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] 2465B U400 Availability?

? I'm looking at buying a 2465B that's supposedly needs a U400. Scope
? appears to work somewhat (calibrator trace looks good, etc.) and price
? is good.

I'm wondering what I may be getting into here. Are U400's very hard to find
at a reasonable price? I see them on eBay but wondered if there's a better
source (perhaps here?) for them.

Also, is it "normal" for the 2465B to display any trace (e.g. the calibrator)
when U400 is bad? In other words, I'm wondering if U400 is really the
problem with it or possibly something else (apparently it won't calibrate).
NVRAM maybe?

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I figured it out with NPNs in series with segment drivers A and D so
the voltage drop would be insignificant; N-channel power MOSFETs would
work also and a full 5 volts are available for enhancement. The NPNs
are driven from the inverted BCD signals b and d so it takes 4 NPNs
total and 4 resistors but you have to cut 2 traces.

Hi, thank you for this long post. In fact even if I think that if it may be done in your way, it will be difficult to have the same segment luminosity. May be it's less work to use a microcontroler and redo all the display from the 12 Bcd inputs.

And in both case, its a lot of work just for the "look". So it's not my priority project. I already changed all the 7447 and the 4511 of all my plusgins and it was a big work when the CI was not on carrier.

Thank anyway and if I finally do it during a mong winter evening, I will post the picture on it !

Hi, You do mean an "X" or a cross? "+" ?
A cross hairs pattern is part of the calibration, (Clock delay timer).

If you power up the scope, then do a reset, (using plug P9104 near the microprocessor), do you still get a cross or X?

The 2230 which is what your 2220 is based on has some good diagnostics for the digital board. I'd guess the 2220 has the same feature.

I'd still like to see a screenshot.


---In TekScopes@..., <stbarker123@...> wrote :

Thanks for your comments.It happens in analog mode. After power on, the display comes up normally for about a second then the X comes up. Occasionally the scope will start up as normal, the problem is more likely if I haven't used it for a few weeks, which is why I think it is depolarised electrolytics.

How "good" is the "X" display? Is it like a distorted Lissajous, or accurately formed? Can you move it around with the position controls? If it's well-made, and fixed at the center, then it's likely produced by the digital display system - maybe it's a fault indicator of some kind. The analog portion by itself should be incapable of drawing a good X, but the digital section can if it's somehow trying to tell you something. You may want to check the backup battery inside, and review the operating instructions to see if there is a meaning.

Ed

I bought the 2465B today. Nice physical condition on the outside but haven't had time to open it yet.

Seems there's a bit of noise on some channels. I'm guessing power supply issues.

Changing the vertical position of the trace definitely changes the height of the trace as I move from bottom to top. Looks like U400 is indeed problematic.

Will know more once I dig into it.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

Thanks for your comments.It happens in analog mode. After power on, the display comes up normally for about a second then the X comes up. Occasionally the scope will start up as normal, the problem is more likely if I haven't used it for a few weeks, which is why I think it is depolarised electrolytics.

On 29 March 2016 at 18:26, 'David C. Partridge'
david.partridge@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:

Just to clarify is that the entire Bee Documentation or everything except
the Tek and HP stuff?

?It's everything else.

Malcolm?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I thought some of you might be interested in these - my wife would kill me if I adopted a bunch of oscilloscopes so close to our anniversay!


The state of Illinois surplus auction in Springfield IL has a few Tek scopes that don't look too bad cosmetically -- but they each come with a van load of other surplus. You have to arrange your own shipping, or come and pick them up.



There is a 7834 and another Tek scope here:
ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=184721


and a 575 curve tracer here:
ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=184991


I think a 5xxx series scope here:
ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=184901



and a table full of other brand scopes here:
ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=184751

Hello--

My thanks go to everyone who inquired.

Just to clarify is that the entire Bee Documentation or everything except the Tek and HP stuff?

Is this in storage mode only? If so, then a fault in the display system could make almost any shape on screen through the vector generators. If the "X" seems too perfect, is it possible that it's stuck in some kind of diagnostic or calibration mode? I don't recall what's in there, but it may be worth looking into the diagnostics menus, and also review the operating instructions. Also, try it in analog mode, with the readout turned completely off. This should stop the digital system from doing anything to the display, unless there's a fault allowing it to interfere.

Ed

I've never seen anything resembling a cross on screen on any 223x scope, can you post a picture?


---In TekScopes@..., <stbarker123@...> wrote :

Hi
Does anyone have experience of this, and know what the prime culprit is? I am pretty certain it is caused by old electrolytics so am in the process of replacing all the low volage ones in the PSU, but if someone knows specifically what the conditions for the X is that would be most helpful
thanksStuart

I haven't come across any special precautions for removal but there are warnings (in common with your 2445) about not operating the scope with the case removed unless you use an external fan to cool the hybrids on the main board.

Compared with prices in the UK, under $100 for a 2465B is a bargain. Mine was sold as not working and with no display, the usual corrosion from the electrolytics on the A5 board commonly makes the DAC reference voltage go way out of spec and this affects many sub-systems, trigger levels, beam vertical offset, brightness and probably many more. If 'yours' is suffering from a modest DAC drift it will almost certainly make it impossible to calibrate the scope. Mine had almost destroyed one of the thin film precision 10k resistors and had caused the beam to be invisible (and off screen anyway).

If you have a 2445 to do the swap and test of U400 then you do not need to commit any further money until you are sure that U400 is the culprit. Replacing the resistors and capacitors on the A5 board is well documented and, at least in my case, not at all costly.

Best of luck,

Roger

Yes, you'd have to cut the lines from the open-collector outputs to the LEDs, but I think the same logic principles will work. For example, if you place a PNP Q as a series switch between the 8T06 output and the "A" segment (top) LED, with the emitter toward the LED, and the base driven through some resistance by BCD 2, it should disconnect the normal decoding for 6 and allow the top LED to go on in the desired states.

This could get tricky though, since there's not much operating voltage available. The LED may be at about 1-1.2V on, and you'd need B-E voltage for the PNP, plus base resistor drop, plus output voltage drop on the 8T06. There's not enough to run a Darlington, but if a P channel MOSFET with very low Vt could be found, it might be doable directly. Or, maybe the PNP could be arranged as an emitter follower from the 8T06 output to the LED, with collector grounded. With some base resistance from the 8T06, and a diode from the logic input, it should override the normal state.

Certainly, a slightly more complex circuit say with an additional transistor for each for gain, level shifting, and polarity control should work. Or, some kind of CMOS switch with low enough Ron, or a MOSFET power switching IC may have what it takes without any additional parts.

Of course, it all depends on the situation. If this is a one-off circuit mod, then no big deal, but if there's a whole bunch of them it's another story.

Ed

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 12:46 AM, David <davidwhess@...> wrote:

Nixie and you are right and I am wrong; the 8T06 output is inverted.
The idea is so weird that I though Signetics wrote the truth table
strangely.

The 8T04/8T05/8T06 are Signetics equivalents of the 7447/7448/7449,
with a different pinout. Hard to understand why they thought that was
a good idea.

On 03/29/2016 08:59 AM, John Clark johnclark05@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Actually, the JELD-WEN Wendts are from Iowa originally. They moved out to Oregon and started the business 50+ years ago. One of the sons, who is a contractor, is named Mark. You're in good company, though, as Dick Wendt was one of the 400 wealthiest men in the US before he died. ?You'd never have known it though. I recall he drove an old Jeep Cherokee with a dent in the fender for way too many years.

Iowa, huh? Didn't know there were any relatives living there either. ;-)

Mark

On 29 March 2016 at 08:57, stbarker123@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...> wrote:

I couldn't find a manual, so have been using a 2230 manual which appears
to have the same PSU and does not mention it.

If Artek Manuals don't have one for the 2220, there's a seller on ebay who
does - #?331345358213. Not an outrageous price. They also do PDF versions.

Malcolm

Actually, the JELD-WEN Wendts are from Iowa originally. They moved out to Oregon and started the business 50+ years ago. One of the sons, who is a contractor, is named Mark. You're in good company, though, as Dick Wendt was one of the 400 wealthiest men in the US before he died. ?You'd never have known it though. I recall he drove an old Jeep Cherokee with a dent in the fender for way too many years.

Sent from my BlackBerry Z30 smartphone.
From: Mark wendt.mark@... [TekScopes]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 08:32
To: TekScopes@...
Reply To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Movie on Tek's early days, last link was corrupted


On 03/28/2016 09:06 PM, John Clark johnclark05@... [TekScopes]
wrote:

Thanks for the link! I enjoyed watching that. I grew up on the Oregon coast, graduating HS in 1986, and lived there most of my life until recently moving out east. I never had even heard of Tektronix until acquiring my dad's 475 last spring. I work for another large, privately-held (though, probably not for much longer) long-time Oregon company, JELD-WEN Windows and Doors. I had never heard of them either until I landed a corporate pilot job with them back in 1998. Dick Wendt, founder of the company, was the Howard Vollum of JELD-WEN and was very much like Vollum. Wendt died in 2010 and JELD-WEN was bought by private equity in 2011 and is now based in Charlotte, NC. It's hard to watch the same kind of family atmosphere it used to be change to the "quarterly earnings for stockholders" atmosphere, as the Tek piece describes.

Nothing is constant but change. The Camelots grow but never stay.

John

Dang. Another Wendt family out there. I know of the families in
upstate NY where I grew up, in Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, and a
few that lived in California. Now some more in the Pacific NW.

Mark Wendt


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