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Re: 2465BDV and P6137 weirdness

 

It makes it very convenient in a production environment to return the scope to a preset setup, so yes, it is a feature.

I don't know if it can be disabled. Maybe explore the

Oddly enough, my paper manual (a printed copy that came with my 'scope) is where I remembered reading what I posted It is a 1990 manual revision. The PDF that I have, which is a 1986 revision, does not have that information in it. I'm still trying to figure out all of the hidden things one can do with this 'scope.

Cheers,
DaveD

On 3/19/2013 3:28 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
And that's a *feature*? Can that be disabled?


On 3/19/2013 5:21 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
My 2465BDV manual states the following:

"The following function is available for instruments with serial numbers
B049999 and below with firmware version 10 and below or for instruments with
serial numbers B050000 and above with firmware version 1 and above (see
Appendix A - EXER04 to determine firmware version). AUTP Setup can also be
activated by pressing any probe ID button twice in 0.5 second."

DaveD

On 3/19/2013 3:11 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
I have a 2465BDV I'm using as a bench scope and I recently picked up an unused
P6137 probe which I started to use. The scope seems to work perfectly,
everything as it should be so far as I can tell, except for one very strange
thing:

When I use the P6137 it operates as it should, signals look great.

If I push the probe "ident" button (on the second push) the scope seems to do
some sort of partial reset, I lose traces, sweep speed goes to a seemingly
random faster setting, trig source changes, channel scales change, I lose the
DMM reading and it reads out the trig level on the top line.

This is repeatable, and as I said everything else seems fine.

What the heck??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <>
Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5688 - Release Date: 03/19/13

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: 2465BDV and P6137 weirdness

 

That feature can be disabled on the contemporary oscilloscopes that
have it. They have a menu selection which sets what the probe ID
button does.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:28:53 -0400, Peter Gottlieb
<hpnpilot@...> wrote:

And that's a *feature*? Can that be disabled?


On 3/19/2013 5:21 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:

My 2465BDV manual states the following:

"The following function is available for instruments with serial numbers
B049999 and below with firmware version 10 and below or for instruments with
serial numbers B050000 and above with firmware version 1 and above (see
Appendix A - EXER04 to determine firmware version). AUTP Setup can also be
activated by pressing any probe ID button twice in 0.5 second."

DaveD

On 3/19/2013 3:11 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I have a 2465BDV I'm using as a bench scope and I recently picked up an unused
P6137 probe which I started to use. The scope seems to work perfectly,
everything as it should be so far as I can tell, except for one very strange
thing:

When I use the P6137 it operates as it should, signals look great.

If I push the probe "ident" button (on the second push) the scope seems to do
some sort of partial reset, I lose traces, sweep speed goes to a seemingly
random faster setting, trig source changes, channel scales change, I lose the
DMM reading and it reads out the trig level on the top line.

This is repeatable, and as I said everything else seems fine.

What the heck??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <>
Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5688 - Release Date: 03/19/13


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: 2465BDV and P6137 weirdness

Peter Gottlieb
 

And that's a *feature*? Can that be disabled?

On 3/19/2013 5:21 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:

My 2465BDV manual states the following:

"The following function is available for instruments with serial numbers B049999 and below with firmware version 10 and below or for instruments with serial numbers B050000 and above with firmware version 1 and above (see Appendix A - EXER04 to determine firmware version). AUTP Setup can also be activated by pressing any probe ID button twice in 0.5 second."

DaveD

On 3/19/2013 3:11 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I have a 2465BDV I'm using as a bench scope and I recently picked up an unused
P6137 probe which I started to use. The scope seems to work perfectly,
everything as it should be so far as I can tell, except for one very strange thing:

When I use the P6137 it operates as it should, signals look great.

If I push the probe "ident" button (on the second push) the scope seems to do
some sort of partial reset, I lose traces, sweep speed goes to a seemingly
random faster setting, trig source changes, channel scales change, I lose the
DMM reading and it reads out the trig level on the top line.

This is repeatable, and as I said everything else seems fine.

What the heck??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <>
Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5688 - Release Date: 03/19/13
Re: 2465BDV and P6137 weirdness

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

My 2465BDV manual states the following:

"The following function is available for instruments with serial numbers B049999 and below with firmware version 10 and below or for instruments with serial numbers B050000 and above with firmware version 1 and above (see Appendix A - EXER04 to determine firmware version). AUTP Setup can also be activated by pressing any probe ID button twice in 0.5 second."

DaveD

On 3/19/2013 3:11 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

?

I have a 2465BDV I'm using as a bench scope and I recently picked up an unused
P6137 probe which I started to use. The scope seems to work perfectly,
everything as it should be so far as I can tell, except for one very strange thing:

When I use the P6137 it operates as it should, signals look great.

If I push the probe "ident" button (on the second push) the scope seems to do
some sort of partial reset, I lose traces, sweep speed goes to a seemingly
random faster setting, trig source changes, channel scales change, I lose the
DMM reading and it reads out the trig level on the top line.

This is repeatable, and as I said everything else seems fine.

What the heck??
2465BDV and P6137 weirdness

Peter Gottlieb
 

I have a 2465BDV I'm using as a bench scope and I recently picked up an unused P6137 probe which I started to use. The scope seems to work perfectly, everything as it should be so far as I can tell, except for one very strange thing:

When I use the P6137 it operates as it should, signals look great.

If I push the probe "ident" button (on the second push) the scope seems to do some sort of partial reset, I lose traces, sweep speed goes to a seemingly random faster setting, trig source changes, channel scales change, I lose the DMM reading and it reads out the trig level on the top line.

This is repeatable, and as I said everything else seems fine.

What the heck??
Re: Tektronix jewelry

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I calculated 6 dollars worth of gold...and that's if the chain is gold filled too. If not...about $1.
?
Les

----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Breya
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 11:32 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Tektronix jewelry

?

I believe that it's a real employee award/gift item, but it's nothing special, jewelry-wise. I believe that "gf" indicates "gold-filled," a euphemism for gold plated. The corrosion on the chain links shows the classic green from copper - either from the base plating to put the gold on, or from a brass alloy base material. The weight of the piece is irrelevant - it's a base alloy with a thin 12 k (50%) gold plating.

Ed

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Miller" wrote:
>
> It's worth its weight in gold. :)
> Don't you wonder at its history?
>
> Tom
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Sawyers
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 11:13 AM
> Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Tektronix jewelry
>
>
>
>
> Interesting...
>
> Very unique.
>
>
>
> And very pricey!
>
Re: Could please any one give a clue about this nice pulsed line generator??

 

Ed you say"I found that the outer foil has a longitudinal gap so that it
doesn't totally enclose the conductors, so it may behave strangely as a single
line - it's really optimized for differential use."


In my experience with "slow wave helical line/Tesla coil"? better if? shield "only" carry longitudinal current and capacitive current , the longitudinal gap avoid Peripheral current circulation, like a turn shorted...mean more "Q".

The dielectric is less important, since inside the coil the electric field is minimal, opposed to the electric field between coil and shield.

This is the reason why you need more wire to obtain electrical length, compared with straight wire in air like antenna..

In straigh wire , all his length point have electrical field to ground or shield (coax cable) which in turn determine the capacity for unit of lenght , a coiled transmission line, or slow wave helical..only "see/feel" near the half of the electric field which is similar to? be immersed in a medium with less permittivity...since the inner surface of the coil has less electrical gradient between turn, then you need more wire to achieve the desired electrical lenght..
Using helical line/delay line is convenient since the total length could be shorted, but until now, I m not clear about how calculate for 50 Ohms.

You say"For the actual scope measurements, you should have some good coaxial attenuators, or a step attenuator, to knock the level down some. The average pulser power is no problem, but the peak voltage may cause all sorts of strange effects by turning on protection devices and ringing the front-end parasitics. "
Fortunately my unit come with a very nice step attenuator 25V to 250mV..!!plus a variable control +-5%.
>
Gabriel.


--- In TekScopes@..., "Ed Breya" wrote:
>
> The simplest and most likely to work way to extend the line is just using more .141 semi-rigid line. If you have any RG-8 cables - the big stuff - and an adapter for N to SMA, it should definitely work better than RG-58 since it will have much lower loss, and maybe comparable to .141.
>
> There is a slightly more compact possible alternative, but I don't know yet. For one of my pulser designs, I had planned to try a section of scope vertical delay line in differential mode, with the avalanche operation between the oppositely charged lines, then transformer-coupled into a nonlinear transmission line edge compressor. I have the line mounted mechanically in a plug-in only, but not yet rigged for any experiments.
>
> The 7000 series appear to all (I don't know about the 7104) use the same stuff, which looks like it's made with bare copper conductors and outer foil, with HDPE dielectric. It's supposedly about 100 ohms differential, but may act as about 50 ohms common-mode with the conductors tied, or maybe with one conductor grounded to the foil. I found that the outer foil has a longitudinal gap so that it doesn't totally enclose the conductors, so it may behave strangely as a single line - it's really optimized for differential use.
>
> If you happen to have any pieces of delay line or 7000 carcasses available, you may want to experiment with it. I'm curious about how it would act with different wiring arrangements, what the true impedance is, and whether it's low enough in loss for pulser applications. It's heavier than the .141 cable, but on the other hand, it doesn't have silver plated conductors, and the HDPE isn't as good as PTFE. Maybe it's comparable then - the larger size offsetting the lossier materials. Or maybe not.
>
> It's also possible to extend the pulse width arbitrarily by terminating and feeding the charge line at the distal end with a 50 ohm source (at the charge voltage!), but it is much more complicated than the normal method. The power dissipation can quickly get out of hand, and the commutation must be provided by additional circuitry, since there's no reflection from the line.
>
> For the immediate purpose, I'd recommend just using more cable.
>
> For the actual scope measurements, you should have some good coaxial attenuators, or a step attenuator, to knock the level down some. The average pulser power is no problem, but the peak voltage may cause all sorts of strange effects by turning on protection devices and ringing the front-end parasitics.
>
> Ed
>
> --- In TekScopes@..., "iglesia_cristiana_arpas_eternas" iglesia_cristiana_arpas_eternas@ wrote:
> >
> > Today the Pulse Gen come to live, after replace the weak Q100 transistor by selected from what ever transistor I have in my shop..the winner was a npn switching "MPSH10".
> > The rise time seems to be right on my unfinished to cal high frequency response 2465B scope..paradoxical..I brought this Gen in order to Cal my scopes ..now I haven`t a calibrated scope in this high impulse picosecond domain..to test this Gen..a dog chasing his tail!!!
> > The only I can do is an act of "believe" in avalanche physic & Tek circuit implementation.
> >
> > As you people warning early, make an extension transmission line from common RG58...work but the pulse is not flat, the decay near linearly along his width..about 80ns.
> > Any suggestion about how to make/obtain 15 feet of very good coax cable??? .
> > Also please could any one post a pic on what is expected to see on a 2465B once connected to this Gen, about rise time and flatness?.
> >
> > --- In TekScopes@..., "iglesia_cristiana_arpas_eternas" wrote:
> > >
> > > The Generator arrive today from USA to my Argentine door!!! .
> > >
> > > Unfortunately not work fine.
> > > Rt=1,67nS (instead 300pS)
> > > Width pulse= 5,84nS (wave exponential decay instead rectangular pulse)
> > > Max out= 3,5V (instead 25V)
> > > Rep Rate=15Mhz (instead 50 or 100Khz)
> > >
> > > The ratio of different att step, seems to be good.
> > > Probability arise that my previous intuition about bipolar avalanche transistor burned out come truth.
> > >
> > > Perhaps the out pulse I see is not else than the trigger pulse passing trough a short avalanche transistor.
> > > Any way, this nice generator will be fixed (tomorow)....all kind of help & advice will be welcome.
> > > Gabriel...from the Holly land of Francisco Pope!!..God bless all of Us.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In TekScopes@..., "iglesia_cristiana_arpas_eternas" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Here the link to this almost new pulsed generator, at first glance is a
> > > > transmission line pulser with 300ps ..but no model or number at all.
> > > > I just brought it with the hope work right...but a good service manual
> > > > will be very appreciated and gratefully.
> > > > Link to Pulse Gen.
> > > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-HIGH-AMPLITUDE-PULSE-GENERATOR-/25123\
> > > > 2112187?autorefresh=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7e99ce3b&nma=t\
> > > > rue&si=w4%252BkkAkTYIq9sTkPYLC8H98HEpU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid\
> > > > =p2047675.l2557>
> > > >
> > > > Regards Gabriel.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Need help with P6133

 

I pushed it out the back. I remember I also used a very small hammer, sometimes called a 'tap' hammer and lightly tapped on the needle nose while it gripped the hook. Note: the part of the hook that is inside has small protrusions that keep it in. The slot edges in the plastic case will deform slightly as you tap out the hook. With care, it will come out, and can be reinserted. Probably not a good repair for a production shop, but for a hobbyist it will work for awhile.
Bob

--- In TekScopes@..., "tonyp2422" <tonyp2422@...> wrote:

Thanks Bob. You pulled the hook out from the front? Or did you push it out the back?

--- In TekScopes@..., "Robert" <go_boating_fast@> wrote:

It may be possible to repair this. I have a spring hook tip that has the flat type of hook that had a similar problem. I used a needle nose pliers to push the hook tip out. I found the inside end is kind of shaped like a spade connector. It had spread apart from use and no longer made contact with the probe tip. Using a second pliers to keep the metal flat, I squeezed the splayed end back together. I tested the connect with the prob tip before I forced it back inside the plastic case.
Note there is also a spring inside.

Bob

--- In TekScopes@..., "tonyp2422" <tonyp2422@> wrote:

I'm sure I'm being a dummy, but I suddenly am getting no signal continuity through the spring hook tip when placed on one of my P6133 probes. I'm just about certain I used this same spring clip on this same probe when I cal'd the probe using the cal signal on the scope. The probe itself is fine if I remove the clip and touch the probe tip to the cal point. But when I put the clip housing back on I get nothing. I even tried it on my other 6133 and nothing.
Re: Need help with P6133

 

Thanks Bob. You pulled the hook out from the front? Or did you push it out the back?

--- In TekScopes@..., "Robert" <go_boating_fast@...> wrote:

It may be possible to repair this. I have a spring hook tip that has the flat type of hook that had a similar problem. I used a needle nose pliers to push the hook tip out. I found the inside end is kind of shaped like a spade connector. It had spread apart from use and no longer made contact with the probe tip. Using a second pliers to keep the metal flat, I squeezed the splayed end back together. I tested the connect with the prob tip before I forced it back inside the plastic case.
Note there is also a spring inside.

Bob

--- In TekScopes@..., "tonyp2422" <tonyp2422@> wrote:

I'm sure I'm being a dummy, but I suddenly am getting no signal continuity through the spring hook tip when placed on one of my P6133 probes. I'm just about certain I used this same spring clip on this same probe when I cal'd the probe using the cal signal on the scope. The probe itself is fine if I remove the clip and touch the probe tip to the cal point. But when I put the clip housing back on I get nothing. I even tried it on my other 6133 and nothing.
Re: Tektronix jewelry

 

I believe that it's a real employee award/gift item, but it's nothing special, jewelry-wise. I believe that "gf" indicates "gold-filled," a euphemism for gold plated. The corrosion on the chain links shows the classic green from copper - either from the base plating to put the gold on, or from a brass alloy base material. The weight of the piece is irrelevant - it's a base alloy with a thin 12 k (50%) gold plating.

Ed

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Miller" <tmiller11147@...> wrote:

It's worth its weight in gold. :)
Don't you wonder at its history?

Tom


----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Sawyers
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Tektronix jewelry




Interesting...

Very unique.



And very pricey!
Re: Tektronix jewelry

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

It's worth its weight in gold. :)
Don't you wonder at its history?
?
Tom
?
?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Tektronix jewelry

?

Interesting...

Very unique.

And very pricey!
Re: Tektronix jewelry

Craig Sawyers
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Interesting...

Very unique.

?

And very pricey!
Re: Need help with P6133

 

It may be possible to repair this. I have a spring hook tip that has the flat type of hook that had a similar problem. I used a needle nose pliers to push the hook tip out. I found the inside end is kind of shaped like a spade connector. It had spread apart from use and no longer made contact with the probe tip. Using a second pliers to keep the metal flat, I squeezed the splayed end back together. I tested the connect with the prob tip before I forced it back inside the plastic case.
Note there is also a spring inside.

Bob

--- In TekScopes@..., "tonyp2422" <tonyp2422@...> wrote:

I'm sure I'm being a dummy, but I suddenly am getting no signal continuity through the spring hook tip when placed on one of my P6133 probes. I'm just about certain I used this same spring clip on this same probe when I cal'd the probe using the cal signal on the scope. The probe itself is fine if I remove the clip and touch the probe tip to the cal point. But when I put the clip housing back on I get nothing. I even tried it on my other 6133 and nothing.
Re: Tektronix jewelry

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Interesting...

Very unique.
On 03/19/2013 08:39 AM, Glydeck wrote:

Unusual tektronix item. Does anyone know the back story?



Item # 251198997978




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Re: 2440: GPIB

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Good points all around.

I assume ibnotify() is the windows version of the linux kernel inotify?? I was too deeply exposed to inotify when using and debugging icrond.? It was then that something snapped and I was forever altered.

If I were to consider using GPIB for custom work, ibnotify() support would be worth considering.? Now that I think of it, I'm not :)?

So maybe the prologix or a usb solution is best.

I'm rather interested in building my own.? Has anyone built the Elektor adapter published in 2010?

/m


On 03/19/2013 01:34, Chuck Harris wrote:

?

Their I/O model is USB, and with it comes most of USB's gifts and
problems.

If you want to use it asynchronously, set up a task to poll it
in the background. That way your programming sensibilities won't
be offended. It's not like you won't have to be doing some polling
somewhere in your GPIB software no matter what the board.

There are thousands of us that think the prologix unit is just ducky
for running our ancient HPIB equipment.

But, then we are all wrong, and only you are right.

-Chuck Harris
Tektronix jewelry

 

Unusual tektronix item. Does anyone know the back story?



Item # 251198997978
Re: New 466 owner

Tom Jobe
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks Tom,
Your suggestion about applying some oil worked perfectly on the vertical VAR pots of this 465!
tom jobe...
?

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Miller
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] New 466 owner

?

Put a drop of oil on the shaft near where it enters the pot. I use PB Blaster penetrate oil. In 15 minutes, the thing will be like new.
?
Tom
?
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Jobe
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] New 466 owner

?

Because I needed one of those 1/8" plastic flex joints recently and did not have one, I extended an .050" hex wrench today?and changed those couplers on a 465. I?replaced the two flex joints with two of those 1/8" aluminum couplers from Veronia Northern and it all worked perfectly.
You need to remove the bandwidth shaft and a couple of other small bits?to get good access but it was just a few minute job once the hex wrench was lengthened.
tom jobe...
PS The shaft length on the VAR pot is only .400" or so, and it is fairly stiff to rotate.
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 6:04 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] New 466 owner

?

Just picked up a 466 over the weekend. Works fine, but the only
problem was the Var knob on CH 2 is broken. Opened it up and saw it
was the coupler that connects the two shafts that's broken. Is there
a source for the couplers? I might just leave it alone as it looks
like a real pain to get down to the Ch 2 stuff.

Thanks,
-d
Re: 2440: GPIB

 

Say what! The patent office ALLOWED a patent for that ???? That is INSANE. Talk about not allowing for prior art.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of John Miles
Sent: 19 March 2013 01:31
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] 2440: GPIB

Nothing stops you from implementing ibnotify() on a background thread.

(Well, nothing except National Instruments' patent on the concept of a callback function tied to a GPIB event.)

-- john, KE5FX
Re: How to upgrade a 7854 to opt 2D

 

FWIW you can order Analog Devices SW06GPZ online direct from Analog Devices online throught their sample program ...


Regards,
David Partridge

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of David
Sent: 19 March 2013 00:36
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: How to upgrade a 7854 to opt 2D

I remember the thread where this was discussed. If an SW06 was used to replace the LF13333, then I think the timing problem could be fixed by altering capacitors C2310, C2400, and C2300 a little bit to adjust the delays but since the SW06 analog switch is even less available than the LF13333, the easiest solution would be to just buy a couple of the original part.
Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 - UPDATE - got startup routine

 

I've read the eeprom responsible for start-up check routine, who can help me decode the program?

Disassembled?the contents using dz80 disassembler, but it is very weird and I don't know much about z80 architecture.

The files are attached in this message, just unzip them.

--- On Sun, 3/17/13, Chuck Harris wrote:

From: Chuck Harris
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 - UPDATE
To: "Gala Dragos"
Date: Sunday, March 17, 2013, 6:24 PM

Run the EPROM through a Z-80 disassembler?

-Chuck

Gala Dragos wrote:
> I've found out that A03W101 really go to nowhere. Following the circuits it goes
> to A04 board into some resistor which is not mounted. So I'm at a dead end. Any
> ideas ? --- On Fri, 3/15/13, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
>
> From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
> Sony/Tektronix 318 - UPDATE To: "Gala Dragos" <gala_dragos@...> Cc:
> "ArtekMedia" <manuals@...> Date: Friday, March 15, 2013, 10:30 PM
>
> Hi Gala,
>
> I would give you a copy if I had one, but I only have the military manual that you
> already have.? I would suggest that you send an email to Dave Henderson at :
> ArtekMedia <manuals@...>
>
> He has been known to send schematics to people in need.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
> Gala Dragos wrote:
>> Not having the full schematics makes this a very difficult repair process !
>> After a very lengthy probing session, in which I've managed to find a connection
>> from A03W102 to A02 and back, I decided to try and remove the last jumper wires
>> that differ between 318 and 338 instruments. Apart from A04W118 which is marked
>> as TYPE ID and sets the corresponding number of probes and possible the memory
>> size that is required to test at startup, there are two more jumper wires
>> A03W102 and A03W101. A03W102 is tied on A03 pin 23B and from what I could tell
>> is responsible for checking the presence of the A02 and possibly A01 boards (and
>> their types ?). W101 seems not to be connected anywhere, I could not find any
>> connection, but I could be mistaking as I don't have the full schematics. Now I
>> have unsoldered the jumpers one at a time and started the instrument with them
>> removed, below is what I've found. When W102 removed gives an error in
>> diagnostics on the PRL section which states: "TIME BASE, WR, ACQ,NDL SEQ". When
>> W101 is removed nothing happens (as long as W102 is in its place). I somehow
>> find it hard too believe that Tektronix made a PCB with a ghost jumper that is
>> not used for anything. There must be something on the missing pages of the
>> schematic that can shade some light, there must be a loop somewhere ! Can anyone
>> provide the full schematics? Please. PS: both A03W101 and A03W102 are coming out
>> of A04U104 (pins 1 and 2) and are marked EDB6 and EDB7 respectively. --- On Fri,
>> 3/15/13, Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> wrote:
>>
>> From: Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@...
>> Date: Friday, March 15, 2013, 10:12 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At least page 4 of the tektronix 318 schematics, if not full ?
>>
>> --- On Thu, 3/14/13, Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> wrote:
>>
>> From: Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: "TekScopes"
>> <TekScopes@...> Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 9:09 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm missing part of A02 board form the schematics, it is necessary to follow two
>> signals that differ between 318 and 338. Can anybody provide the full schematic
>> of the 318 logic analyzer?
>>
>> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
>>
>> From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: "Gala Dragos"
>> <gala_dragos@...> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 10:25 PM
>>
>> Hi Gala,
>>
>> Sounds like you static zapped something.? ECL, LSTTL, and TTL are pretty
>> resistant to static, but not so any of the NMOS.? NMOS and CMOS chips from that
>> era were extremely sensitive to static electricity.
>>
>> Given that little tidbit of information, I would spend some time looking closer
>> to the CPU... particularly anything that could prevent you from setting the 20ns
>> setting.? I don't remember how the 318 did that, but I recall it required a few
>> steps.
>>
>>
>> Gala Dragos wrote:
>>>>> Do you suppose that your 318 is doing something like that?
>>> Don't know, I don't own this for that long. The story starts in January, when
>>> I've realized I need a logic analyzer, so I managed to find one close by, well
>>> in the same continent and fiscal area that is (Europe). Got the instrument,
>>> but it came without the probes, which I have acquired from Jerry here on the
>>> forum. When the instrument arrived I have checked that the menu displays what
>>> it should, including the 20ns, and that it actually trigger on to something,
>>> which it did. During these tests I noticed that the
>> fan blows a lot of dust, it looked like a diesel exhaust. So, naturally, I took
>> it apart and cleaned the thing. Put it back together and, to my surprise, no
>> 20ns clock was available.
>>> I need that 20ns clock up and running as I have some apps that run at 40+ Mhz
>>>
>>>>> That actually is a very good sign!Good, but what to do next? It is still
>>>>> unexplained.
>>> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@...
>>> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 9:26
>> PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Gala,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That actually is a very good sign!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have used some logic analyzers where the glitch memory reduced
>>>
>>> the storage speed by a bit... and others where the synchronous
>>>
>>> storage mode was somewhat slower than the asynchronous storage
>>>
>>> mode.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ... And, I have seen other units where there were lower priced
>>>
>>> siblings that were made specifically to use up the slow memory
>>>
>>> boards (that otherwise would have to be discarded).? It used to
>>>
>>> be a very common practice with minicomputers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you suppose
>> that your 318 is doing something like that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's always better when it turns out to be operator error.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gala Dragos wrote:
>>>
>>>> So situation is now like this:- instrument type detection works, by adding
>>>> or
>>>
>>>> removing w118 from A04 board (acquisition)- the 20ns clock is still not
>>>> available
>>>
>>>> from the menu What the heck is going on? --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Gala Dragos
>>>
>>>> <gala_dragos@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>>>
>>>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@...
>>>> Date:
>>>
>>>> Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 11:28
>> AM
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> >> Well that 20ns clock is missing in the diagnostics menu as well. TYPE ID is
>>>> only
>>>
>>>> tested at startup, I've just checked that by soldering a wire across W118
>>>> and
>>>
>>>> removing it (with a switch) when I entered
>> the trigger menu. When W118 is jumpered
>>>
>>>> at startup the instrument is a 338 until next startup (or MPU reset). The
>>>> 20ns
>>>
>>>> clock is no where to be seen no matter the if W118 is soldered or not.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, sbirdasn <sbirdasn@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> From: sbirdasn <sbirdasn@...> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix
>>>> 318
>>>
>>>> manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@... Date: Wednesday,
>>>> March
>>>
>>>> 13, 2013, 6:32
>> AM
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> >>
>>>
>>>> Comments inline...
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> --- In TekScopes@..., Gala Dragos wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I have that manual, I cannot find half of
>> A02 board.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> You're right! page <4> is missing! The doc looked pretty good to me when I
>>>> first
>>>
>>>> looked at it. ;)
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> That being said, my dead-tree version that is truly complete has the
>>>> following
>>>
>>>> circuits:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 1) External clock input buffer with its threshold comparator/delay circuit.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) Internal/external clock select logic.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 3) Some buffers for qualifiers.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 4) Threshold buffer amplifiers for the pods.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 5) The signal routing to get one pod connector's differential signals to
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> interconnect header for the
>> A01's differential to ECL signal w/ glitch detection
>>>
>>>> circuits. (one pod is handled on A01, one pod on A02)
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> For the problems you're experiencing, it probably won't help much, if any.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> The full symptoms are these:- 20ns clock? disappeared;- there are 4
>>>>> selectable
>>>
>>>>> groups in the setup screen;- each group has 16 bits available for
>>>>> display;- only
>>>
>>>>> 2 pods can be selected for input (pod A and pod B), the rest are
>>>>> unavailable;
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> By that, I think you mean that groups 3 & 4 are disabled by default, and you
>>>> can
>>>
>>>> only enter signals A0-7 or B0-7 into groups.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> Correct?
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> - all tests pass, including acq and sram;- the pods are capturing
>>>>> external
>>>
>>>>> signals properly (checked them with the available calibration output);
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> This would imply that upon power-up, it *does* ID itself as a 318.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I have noticed that the instrument can be "used" without the?
>>>>> acquisition?
>>>
>>>>> board, albeit you can only browse the menus.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Not surprising, since much of the hardware is write only or limited in how
>>>> the CPU
>>>
>>>> can interact with it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Excerpt from the manual:? "The chip
>> select latch (A04U114) is used to enable
>>>
>>>>> each 8-bit pair of the acquisition memory and for identifying instrument
>>>>> type.
>>>
>>>>> It is written by the MPU with the WRITE BS signal from the A03 ACQ
>>>>> Control
>>>
>>>>> board."
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I have checked that circuit for continuity of traces and they are all ok.
>>>>> On the
>>>
>>>>> schematic there is a jumper wire called W118 which in the 338 is mounted
>>>>> and in
>>>
>>>>> the 318 is not mounted, checked that as well and it is not mounted.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Since you've checked the signal connections, it sounds like a hardware
>>>> failure in
>>>
>>>> one or more chips.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Consider the following (I have no idea how they
>> wrote the firmware, so I have to
>>>
>>>> make some educated guesses):
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> The Bank Select pin used for Type ID is "wire-OR'ed" with the ACQ/Glitch
>>>> Memory
>>>
>>>> output data bus, which has pull-up/termination resistors to bring the bus to
>>>> a
>>>
>>>> known inactive state.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Since the 318 has the jumper removed, then when the ID bank bit is driven
>>>> active,
>>>
>>>> the signal to be read *should* be in the "inactive" state.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> If one of the ACQ/Glitch SRAM's were to drive this pin to a "active" state,
>>>> then
>>>
>>>> the bit will be incorrectly read (there is also some status bits that are
>>>> selected
>>>
>>>> by the 2-1 muxes, so something could be wrong there
>> too).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> When would this happen?
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Apparently, not on power-up, as it knows to be a 318 for pod count and
>>>> memory to
>>>
>>>> test.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> But perhaps when you enter the Trigger menu and start moving the clock rate,
>>>> then
>>>
>>>> the firmware *might* check the hardware jumper state again, read the wrong
>>>
>>>> information, and prevent selecting the highest clock rate.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> This is just a guess, but it would be easy to check-
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Solder a jumper wire onto the W118 pad on the latch side for probing with a
>>>> scope,
>>>
>>>> and check for
>> activity by the CPU to drive it active (to read the ID TYPE). The
>>>
>>>> signal will be fairly slow, as it is driven active across several
>>>> instructions,
>>>
>>>> and thus will be in the micro-second range, unlike the sampling circuitry.
>>>> Not an
>>>
>>>> ideal situation for signal integrity, but then I doubt you have a pair of
>>>> extender
>>>
>>>> cards handy (made of unobtanium).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I think the signals in this area are ECL, so the logic transition delta is
>>>> about
>>>
>>>> 0.8V between 1's and 0's, and does not go to either "ground" or V- (ECL is
>>>
>>>> technically a -5.2V logic family).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Explore the operation of the analyzer, and note when the signal goes active.
>>>> Try
>>>
>>>> various menus, field changes, etc. to see when the
>> CPU fiddles with this signal.
>>>
>>>> You might also look at when the Bank Select Latch is clocked too.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> You could check some other signals from the bank latch and the read side as
>>>> sanity
>>>
>>>> checks if necessary.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I can't think of any other explanation as to why you can't select 20 nS
>>>> clock.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> Sbirdasn.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
& gt;>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> br>>
>>>
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