Re: In Defense of the 7A19
Competition made both companies better.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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Re: In Defense of the 7A19
On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 09:23 AM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Hi Michael,
---- HP triggering was far superior to Tek's triggering. On-screen readout wasn't any good if you
couldn't trigger at the right point on a signal. The hidden message in the ad,
aimed squarely at Tek, was we have brilliant engineers and here is proof that
we can design a better scope at a lower price than you can.
Dennis Tillman W7pF
Hi Dennis, What was in HP scope's triggering that made it far superior to Tektronix's? I always consider triggering as something very simple in principle, the comparison of the measured signal with a reference, which results in the event that may start a sweep. Were theirs a faster comparison, with less noise, less affected by prior sweeps (more logic in the hold-off), more selective with complex waveforms ? Something superior to the tunnel diodes already used in the 500 scopes? Ernesto
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Re: Nice Document Site with Tek manuals; New to me
Folks, I have an HP Business 2800 Inkjet which will print out full size Tek or HP schematics as well but I suspect we are more of an exception. However for us with larger printers or monitors, I thought I would do a little experimenting with the schematics and attached a version that could be useful on 11x17 paper. I thought I would experiment with some better ways to handle the eye-test parallel connections. It can be found here: /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/Enhanced%20Schematics/410C%20Range%20Function%20schematics.pdfWhat do you think? I could take either of the schematics and turn it into an ~11x30 printout. I suspect anyone that uses this would probably use it with a monitor and in this case having the two versions right on the monitor would be useful. When I get some time, I will have to look over some of my old HP and Tek scans to see if this would be useful to provide. In any case I also have an HP 410C and will probably use this if I have any problems. I know this is a bit off topic for the Tek site but the feedback is useful for those of us that provide some of the scans used for many of the equipment sites. If by some chance you are not on the HP group and cannot get the schematic, please send me a private message. Does not make sense to post on the Tek site. Regards
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Re: Advice about buying a 7904
Sean,
Thanks.
That fuse looks pretty easy to make with a 3D printer and an electroplater. If someone wants a 3D printer but SWMBO says no, here's a good argument for getting one. "It's a business." Obviously not high volume, but you could easily get away with charging a stiff price relative to material costs. You would not need to sell many fuses to recover the cost of the 3D printer and the gold electroplating setup. You guys no more than I do, but $5 for a replacement fuse which is otherwise pure unobtainium seems pretty fair to me.
It would take a bit of experimentation, but the construction is a piece of fuse wire threaded through the flat part with gold contacts electroplated to a pad, probably conductive paint silkscreened to the base, to form the contact and hold the wire in place. The top part is just to hold it in place.
You'd need a way to impedance match the design so it looked like 50 ohms. An 11801 series with an SD-24 would do that quite nicely.
A cheap work around repair would be to lay a piece of the appropriate fuse wire across the gap and use a $25 el cheapo gold electroplating kit to plate the wire to the board.
Reg
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WTB: GPIB board for Tek HC100 plotter
Hi,
I have the plotter but it has RS232C option & Centronics interfaces only.
Would like to get hold of the GPIB board in case any list member knows
of the whereabouts of one.
Thanks!
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Re: Free C1001 Tek Video Camera, Los Angeles area
I forgot to mention:
If interested, please contact me directly: johngord (at) verizon (dot) net
--John
johngord@...
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On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 03:19 PM, John Gord wrote:
Free for pickup: Tektronix C1001 BW CCD camera. I live in Venice,
California.
--John Gord
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Free C1001 Tek Video Camera, Los Angeles area
Free for pickup: Tektronix C1001 BW CCD camera. I live in Venice, California.
--John Gord
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Re: In Defense of the 7A19
Hi John,
I'm sure Tek's 7904/7A19/7B90 introduction was sweet revenge.
HP switched to battling for the crown in Portables next but Tek was on solid ground starting with the first 1nSec risetime 485 portable. Tek was continuous stream of newer products with continuously improving specs at steadily lower prices and that held HP off there as well.
Tek's lead in portable spectrum analyzers (the 490 series) was considerable but HP kept nipping at Tek's heels in that market.
Even today what is left of Tek is still battling with HP to see who has the best scope. In the end the marketplace wins because this kind of healthy competition results in breakthroughs and instruments with more capability for the customers.
Dennis
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Re: Nice Document Site with Tek manuals; New to me
Hi Tony,
The very reason Tek designed their manuals with large sheets for their schematics was because there is a lot of circuitry on each page. Tek is widely recognized as creating the finest service manuals in the industry because they recognized what the schematics required for clarity was to be printed on a large format sheet of paper. In October 2012 I was at the vintageTEK Museum when I noticed a new printer they had. I asked why they needed it since they already several Tek Phaser printers. Ed explained they recently bought this Brother MFC-J5910DW inkjet printer when because it could print the ledger size schematics and it was incredibly cheap. The list price was $200 but it was less than $150 with the rebates. In addition to printing anything in color from 4"x6" to 11"x17" (double-sided too!) it is a multifunction Fax/Scanner/copier with built in wireles capability. I immediately bought one myself so I could print the schematics full size.
For troubleshooting Tek scopes and instruments I prefer the original manuals but when I can't get them the first thing I do is print out a full size 11"x17" schematic and the parts locator tables from a PDF. This printer is still going strong 8 years later. It lived up to my expectations and I still cannot figure out why it was so inexpensive.
There are pros and cons to breaking the schematic and parts layout pages into several 8 1/2 x 11 sheets. The only real solution is to provide full size scans and broken up scans to keep everybody happy.
I won't buy a CD that doesn't have full size schematics. Try following a signal that starts on the left side of a schematic in a maze of other components as it goes off the page on the right (with no way to distinguish it from any other connection on the schematic). Now you have to find the next page of the schematic and figure out where it is on the left of that sheet and you have to remember how that signal may have been modified back on the previous sheet. Then factor in how often the signal will reach the end of schematic and continue on another different schematic elsewhere in the manual that then requires the same process all over again. This required the user to perform a totally unnecessary tedious, error prone eye / brain test. You cannot fully understand a schematic that is broken up across 2 or 3 sheets of paper unless you print out each sheet and tape the pieces back together in order to see the big picture.
Dennis Tillman W7pF
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of tgerbic Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:35 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Nice Document Site with Tek manuals; New to me I am not sure if I am happy or disappointed about this site. I did a spot check on the HP manuals ( I have a comprehensive list of over 100 I scanned and uploaded) and found that every one I checked are scans I did for the hparchive.com. The differences are that they have the acknowledgements removed, some front/back covers removed, and in some cases a little cosmetic work. Some have the color in the text removed. A good example is the HP 1704B Service or the 130B/BR. I guess the upside is that the scans are being used, so they have some value. I have been scouring the web for 20 years looking for Tek, HP, Heathkit, and many other manuals and I cannot remember seeing this exact site with this navigation/color. It looks a bit like another that had similar content. It might have been there with a different web layout. Have to look back at my saved links. Interesting comment on full-sheet scans. I will often do full sheet if it will fit on my scanner (scans up to 11.7 x 16.5), or will do overlaping 16.5 scans if over that. Most people cannot print these out and they are a bit small on most monitors so I have gotten feedback to break these up. I provided the 410C alternative 1 and 2 manuals on the hparchive which are very clear but I did break up the schematics to make them large and legible. Are they unusable like that? /Tony -- Dennis Tillman W7pF TekScopes Moderator
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Re: Tek 4041 GPIB Controller
The process of transferring a program into the 4041 won't work with most of the System Verification files without a working tape drive, as those programs are called by the SYSVER program as subroutines :(
You could modify some of the individual test files into a standalone test program.
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Re: Tek 4041 GPIB Controller
In my 4041 experiments this weekend, I was able to run the System Verification program by transferring the .asc version I have archived from my PC into the 4041.
However, I have to modify steps 4 and 5 in my process:
4 - Set up Realterm to send the .txt program file you want to transfer into the 4041. start Realterm SEND - the file is loaded into 4041 memory as though you typed it :)
5 - Type SAVE "filename" to save the program in 4041 memory to the filename you enter in quotes
Alternatively, you can just run the program you downloaded into memory by typing RUN.
I did this for the System Verification program, as I am still having issues auto loading that tape. I think the COPY command I used to transfer to COMM to the PC retries more than the LOAD command.
I was able to test the Front Panel display and even tried testing the printer. Still have printer issues - but I don't think I have to fix it.
I have also transferred the CPU board with V2.1 firmware into the chassis that had the extra COMM and GPIB ports.
I then successfully bootstrapped the 4041 to use the COMM0: port as console with my Tektronix 4052 with the console in "Storage" mode.
I also got COMM1: working with my PC at the same time.
I am experimenting with translating one of my 4052 games to run on the 4041 and output the graphics to the 4052
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Re: Advice about buying a 7904
Hi Sean,
The revised March 1988 7104 Operators Manual says the display of the 7D01 Hardware Logic Analyzer and the 7D02 Software Logic Analyzer can cause permanent reduction in CRT microchannel plate gain; consequently, a permanent reduction in writing rate. For more information refer to "Reduction of Display Gain with Display Output Change" in the 7104 Service Manual.
Dennis Tillman W7pF
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 10:09 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Advice about buying a 7904 Reg, To add to Harvey's excellent response, yes indeed most (all?) 7k plugins will work in any 7k mainframe. HOWEVER, there are at least a couple plugins (I cannot recall which ones right now, perhaps someone else knows off the top of their head) that explicitly must never be used in a 7104 because the way they drive the crt can cause damage to it. You absolutely could simply use the plugins you have for your 7104 in a 7904(A). Sean On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 05:53 PM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:
Please forgive me my ignorance, but for most of my life these things
were pure unobtainium for budgetary reasons. And as I was not an EE
and not allowed to touch the ones at work, there was no incentive to
torture myself by looking at catalogs of things I could not afford. Getting a 465 was a huge event for me.
And I don't mean all the work it took to repair it. I am acutely aware
of how fiddly adjusting the vertical amplifiers is. But when you get it right, wow!
Though in all honesty, I like my Dumont 1062 better as it does not have a fan.
It's only 60 MHz, but otherwise matches the 465 in features.
Can I use my 7104 plugins in a 7904 mainframe, albeit with reduced BW
and sweep speeds? That would greatly ease my concerns about using the
7104 on a regular basis. And make getting a 7904 mainframe pretty much a no-brainer.
Just a question of getting a good deal.
Is there a matrix which shows which plugins will work in which
mainframes? I'm really only interested in the vertical and horizontal
plugins. For the other stuff I have HP gear. I'm not aware of anything
Tek made that can compete with an 8566B or 8510C.
Thanks,
Reg
-- Dennis Tillman W7pF TekScopes Moderator
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Re: In Defense of the 7A19
Dennis,
I should also say that I have great respect for HP. No intention to insinuate that HP products were not good or not many times better than those of Tektronix. As you said, they make a huge range of excellent instruments. HP spectrum analyzers, frequency counters and test meters are superb. Your point that Tektronix has a much more narrow focus is spot on. This may have been one of the things that dragged TEK down in later years as they attempted to compete with HP and their wide range of products, instead of focusing on their strength, which was oscilloscopes, similar types of instruments (curve tracers) and graphic display terminals. I need to sit down and look at some of the points that you raised, this discussion has provided a larger window into this subject.
Michael Lynch
From My I-Phone
mlynch003@...
479-477-1115
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On May 31, 2020, at 11:23 AM, Dennis Tillman W7pF <dennis@...> wrote:
?Hi Michael,
Your insights about the sales game explains a great deal about the motivation within the marketing department that produced this ad.
I think the marketing team that created it deserve an award for this ad for several reasons:
* The written copy in the ad follows all of the well understood advertising principles by describing the features and benefits of their scopes that should be at the top of your mind when you purchase your next scope.
* The ad never mentions the competition - there is only one company you should consider for your next scope and that is HP.
* What they deserve an award for is the picture of the contraption with bells and whistles. Nobody would have stopped to read the copy in this ad if it wasn't for the picture. When the typical engineer turned the page and saw that thing he probably would have laughed and read the ad to see what it was about.
* Another reason to reward the team that produced the ad is something else they did that is so subtle 99% of the people that saw the ad had no idea the headline and the picture were also intended as an insult to another company - Tektronix. Tek's success is due to their engineering excellence. Stable triggering is critically important for any scope. HP triggering was far superior to Tek's triggering. On-screen readout wasn't any good if you couldn't trigger at the right point on a signal. The hidden message in the ad, aimed squarely at Tek, was we have brilliant engineers and here is proof that we can design a better scope at a lower price than you can.
HP was famous for its very broad line of instruments that all had excellent specifications. Oscilloscopes are another instrument HP would also like to be known for. Unlike HP, Tek had a very narrow line of instruments and all of them were scopes of one kind or another. If HP could build a better scope at a lower price than Tek they were a very real threat. Even worse, HPs laboratory scope outdid the newest and broadest laboratory scope product line that the best minds at Tek could conceive. This was a huge accomplishment for HP. Companies spend a lot of money annually for oscilloscopes and HP was now a serious contender for Tek's most lucrative product line - their laboratory scopes The headline and photo in the ad was intended to send a message specifically to the management at Tek that HP intended to compete against them with a provably better scope at a lower price that Tek's newest and best lab scopes.
Dennis Tillman W7pF
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] In Defense of the 7A19
On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 01:18 AM, tek_547 wrote:
It didn't mention Tek but it mocked the new features of the 7K scopes
as irrelevant "bells and whistles". One of those bells and whistles
was Barrie Gilbert's revolutionary on-screen readout.
All:
I may not be a Electronics Genius, but I do know the "sales game". HP mocked TEK's "bells and whistles" because those were the most visible and attractive features, the ones that the engineering community (plus others) wanted and usually needed.. Competitive company's "Marketing Departments" almost always mock features that they really have no answer for, deflect and distract is the plan. Sales and Marketing are 90% BS and 10% knowledge.
It would appear to me that TEK established the on screen readout first, probably because it was the most difficult to implement as it was "new technology". Bells and whistles sell products, generally much quicker than "technical specs". You can always "fix" bandwidth, triggers and all that other stuff. TEK laid the cornerstone for the 7K series and built from there, they were playing the "long" game; however they certainly knew they were behind at the time. HP had a technically superior product, but only for that instant in time. After that, as Dennis stated, HP played catch up or just stopped playing.
For me personally, the HP scopes are just not attractive in their esthetics. No offense to those who like them, just my personal preference and opinion. I find that the earlier TEK scopes almost always had a more intuitive layout on their scopes and a more attractive panel design. In the categories of Esthetics and ergonomics, the devil is definitely in the details, TEK got it right most of the time. Either brand of scope is likely much more capable of performing than my poor old brain is in understanding.
Great piece of information and history from Dennis, Thanks Again
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, Arkansas
--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, Arkansas
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Re: Tektronix Application Notes
Hi Neil,
It would be nice to see all of them organized in one place. Unfortunately there are logistic problems that make this very difficult.
As far as I know Tek rarely published application notes in the 1960s. Instead they published an extensive series of easy to read Concept Books which described all aspects of oscilloscopes in detail. Tek also separately published user oriented tutorials on oscilloscopes such as "The ABCs of Probes", and "The XYZs of Oscilloscopes". Many articles in TekScopes, which they published quarterly at first and then 6 times per year, were the equivalent of application notes.
That changed around 1970 when application notes were recognized as an important way to create demand for some of the more unusual or under-appreciated products. At that time Tek was constantly producing new and unusual products to respond to rapid changes in electronics. These new products could often be combined with other products to provide additional new capabilities. But those combinations were not always obvious. An app-note that showed how they worked together could be the answer to making a measurement that would be difficult or impossible up to then. In many cases the app-notes came from the same engineers that designed the products. So the app-notes appeared whenever you could coax an engineer to write about new capabilities that are possible with their product.
It seems like there was little appreciation by management of the app-notes and how important they were. Without some centralized management each product group published their own app-notes whenever they got around to it. This also meant it was hard to know what application notes there were.
By the 1980s someone must have recognized the importance of the app-notes and a group was formed to manage them. I believe one result of this was, on rare occasions, a list of app-notes might appear in an annual catalog when space permitted. For example there is an entry for Application Notes in the Functional Index on pg. 12 of the 1983 catalog. It says the portables app-notes are on pg. 311; the 7000 series app-notes are on pg. 236; and the 5000 series app-notes are on pg. 292 (they were actually on pg. 293). Unfortunately there was no mention of app-notes for the TTM5xx series. In another catalog I have a tear-out pre-paid Business Reply card with boxes you can check off for each application note you want.
It will not be easy to assemble all of the things that really are application notes that were published by various groups within Tek for numerous other purposes..
Dennis Tillman W7pF
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of nj902 Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 11:23 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [TekScopes] Tektronix Application Notes The Tek web site has a lot of newer material available but it's hard to find application notes from the classic era - which I define as roughly up to the marketing alliance with R&S and Advantest. Up to that point, Tek made some of the most awesome spectrum analyzers available - it was sad to see the product line discontinued. I remember a discussion about application notes on this list many years ago. At that time Stan Griffiths said he was still trying to secure permission from Tektronix to publish them. I never saw a followup but I do see a few application notes on TekWiki so perhaps it would be OK now to create a collection of these before they are lost to time. What I think would be great would be an itemized list by product lines: 5000, 7000, 11000, spectrum analyzers etc. -- Dennis Tillman W7pF TekScopes Moderator
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Re: Nice Document Site with Tek manuals; New to me
On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 10:14 PM, tgerbic wrote:
I visited the opweb.de site in the past and they had a different link icon and
page when I originally saved the link.
Hi Tony, Dennis, .et al.: Yes... I think I remember that... seeing the old site... and I've run across this newer? site many times... as a result of a DuckDuckGo search... but, I never trusted it because of the garish webpage layout... that IMO...is usually associated with a crude website exploit. There is a ton of exploit sites that always turn up when searching for manuals/pdfs. Best regards and wishes. Roy
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Re: In Defense of the 7A19
Well Hello Magnus!
You have been very quiet for a long time.
It is nice to hear from you.
I hope all is well.
Dennis
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of magnustoelle via groups.io Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:28 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] In Defense of the 7A19 Good Day, thank you for this great write-up and insights! , Dennus!The key take-aways from this are still absolutely relevant today.Think of the ongoing overkill of announcements of useless or irrelevant features in the Smartphone industry today or 8k-resolution TVs with a screen size simply too big for the average EU house... And then a competitor comes up with an online store that simply works. Cheers, Magnus On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 01:18 AM, tek_547 wrote:
It didn't mention Tek but it mocked the new features
of the 7K scopes as irrelevant "bells and whistles". One of those bells and
whistles was Barrie Gilbert's revolutionary on-screen readout.
All: I may not be a Electronics Genius, but I do know the "sales game". HP mocked TEK's "bells and whistles" because those were the most visible and attractive features, the ones that the engineering community (plus others) wanted and usually needed.. Competitive company's "Marketing Departments" almost always mock features that they really have no answer for, deflect and distract is the plan. Sales and Marketing are 90% BS and 10% knowledge. It would appear to me that TEK established the on screen readout first, probably because it was the most difficult to implement as it was "new technology". Bells and whistles sell products, generally much quicker than "technical specs". You can always "fix" bandwidth, triggers and all that other stuff. TEK laid the cornerstone for the 7K series and built from there, they were playing the "long" game; however they certainly knew they were behind at the time. HP had a technically superior product, but only for that instant in time. After that, as Dennis stated, HP played catch up or just stopped playing. For me personally, the HP scopes are just not attractive in their esthetics. No offense to those who like them, just my personal preference and opinion. I find that the earlier TEK scopes almost always had a more intuitive layout on their scopes and a more attractive panel design. In the categories of Esthetics and ergonomics, the devil is definitely in the details, TEK got it right most of the time. Either brand of scope is likely much more capable of performing than my poor old brain is in understanding. Great piece of information and history from Dennis, Thanks Again -- Michael Lynch Dardanelle, Arkansas -- Dennis Tillman W7pF TekScopes Moderator
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Re: Nice Document Site with Tek manuals; New to me
I got tired up cutting and pasting schematics and picked up a inkjet
plotter/printer off of craigslist for $50. Now I can print things up
to 36 inches wide. It really helps sometimes to blow things up a bit
and tack them on the wall. Like everything I buy it did need a little
work, but not all that much.
You can use panorama software to stitch schematics back together, but
it's something of a pain.
I much prefer single scan schematics, they're much easier to manipulate.
Paul
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On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 06:34:55PM -0700, tgerbic wrote:
Interesting comment on full-sheet scans. I will often do full sheet if it will fit on my scanner (scans up to 11.7 x 16.5), or will do overlaping 16.5 scans if over that. Most people cannot print these out and they are a bit small on most monitors so I have gotten feedback to break these up.
I provided the 410C alternative 1 and 2 manuals on the hparchive which are very clear but I did break up the schematics to make them large and legible. Are they unusable like that?
/Tony
!DSPAM:5ed309c8170021267330973!
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
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Re: In Defense of the 7A19
Hi Michael,
Your insights about the sales game explains a great deal about the motivation within the marketing department that produced this ad.
I think the marketing team that created it deserve an award for this ad for several reasons:
* The written copy in the ad follows all of the well understood advertising principles by describing the features and benefits of their scopes that should be at the top of your mind when you purchase your next scope.
* The ad never mentions the competition - there is only one company you should consider for your next scope and that is HP.
* What they deserve an award for is the picture of the contraption with bells and whistles. Nobody would have stopped to read the copy in this ad if it wasn't for the picture. When the typical engineer turned the page and saw that thing he probably would have laughed and read the ad to see what it was about.
* Another reason to reward the team that produced the ad is something else they did that is so subtle 99% of the people that saw the ad had no idea the headline and the picture were also intended as an insult to another company - Tektronix. Tek's success is due to their engineering excellence. Stable triggering is critically important for any scope. HP triggering was far superior to Tek's triggering. On-screen readout wasn't any good if you couldn't trigger at the right point on a signal. The hidden message in the ad, aimed squarely at Tek, was we have brilliant engineers and here is proof that we can design a better scope at a lower price than you can.
HP was famous for its very broad line of instruments that all had excellent specifications. Oscilloscopes are another instrument HP would also like to be known for. Unlike HP, Tek had a very narrow line of instruments and all of them were scopes of one kind or another. If HP could build a better scope at a lower price than Tek they were a very real threat. Even worse, HPs laboratory scope outdid the newest and broadest laboratory scope product line that the best minds at Tek could conceive. This was a huge accomplishment for HP. Companies spend a lot of money annually for oscilloscopes and HP was now a serious contender for Tek's most lucrative product line - their laboratory scopes The headline and photo in the ad was intended to send a message specifically to the management at Tek that HP intended to compete against them with a provably better scope at a lower price that Tek's newest and best lab scopes.
Dennis Tillman W7pF
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael W. Lynch via groups.io Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:57 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] In Defense of the 7A19 On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 01:18 AM, tek_547 wrote:
It didn't mention Tek but it mocked the new features of the 7K scopes
as irrelevant "bells and whistles". One of those bells and whistles
was Barrie Gilbert's revolutionary on-screen readout.
All: I may not be a Electronics Genius, but I do know the "sales game". HP mocked TEK's "bells and whistles" because those were the most visible and attractive features, the ones that the engineering community (plus others) wanted and usually needed.. Competitive company's "Marketing Departments" almost always mock features that they really have no answer for, deflect and distract is the plan. Sales and Marketing are 90% BS and 10% knowledge. It would appear to me that TEK established the on screen readout first, probably because it was the most difficult to implement as it was "new technology". Bells and whistles sell products, generally much quicker than "technical specs". You can always "fix" bandwidth, triggers and all that other stuff. TEK laid the cornerstone for the 7K series and built from there, they were playing the "long" game; however they certainly knew they were behind at the time. HP had a technically superior product, but only for that instant in time. After that, as Dennis stated, HP played catch up or just stopped playing. For me personally, the HP scopes are just not attractive in their esthetics. No offense to those who like them, just my personal preference and opinion. I find that the earlier TEK scopes almost always had a more intuitive layout on their scopes and a more attractive panel design. In the categories of Esthetics and ergonomics, the devil is definitely in the details, TEK got it right most of the time. Either brand of scope is likely much more capable of performing than my poor old brain is in understanding. Great piece of information and history from Dennis, Thanks Again -- Michael Lynch Dardanelle, Arkansas -- Dennis Tillman W7pF TekScopes Moderator
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Re: Nice Document Site with Tek manuals; New to me
Dennis,
I checked my links and see I visited the opweb.de site in the past and they had a different link icon and page when I originally saved the link. Guess that site has been around for at least a decade.
John,
I do the same thing with wide pages. I have an HP printer that can print out to probably 54 inches in length but I am just too lazy (cheap) to buy long paper. I tape them up too. This has made me learn to scan wide schematics with the save area preselected and just move the paper. When I print out 11X17 sheets, they can just be taped together in a convenient spot. However, I do tend to take the board layouts and charts and enlarge them to be sure they are really clear, and image edit the photos and waveform photos to make the contrast so you can read them clearly.
Berry,
The HP scans were intended to put on the HP Archive site but in the end they were intended to be high quality scans, with OCR, to be used by people like us fixing old test equipment. So I guess they are in a good spot. This is true for any scans besides HP as well.
I scan what I have and post in various places but there is still a lot of equipment out there with poor scans or no scans to be found. You should check out Artek Manuals if you can't find what you want on line. I have bought a few from the site and the prices are reasonable. Think about spending a week or month looking for a clean PDF verses spending about $8 to $12 to just get the manual and get back to troubleshooting.
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Re: Nice Document Site with Tek manuals; New to me
Stupid me.
I print them out and tape them together.? Sometimes this doesn't work too well because the scans are not all the same scale.? The print routine for our hp-Envy has a scaling function, which can save the day eventually when confronted with schematics are broken up where there are 30 runs which cross the joint between two scans which weren't done to same scale.
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Mlynch001
Michael W. Lynch