Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 21:49:43 +0200, you wrote: Even if you can adjust the temperature, it's not much use.
The danger of lifting pads increases exponentially with temperature
and a hot setting can not really make up for a decent thermal path and
powerful, well controlled heating.
Sadly it doesn't look like any of the major soldering tool
manufacturers is willing to sit down for 5 minutes and simply analyze
the existing products to see how to make the perfect tool. If you can
charge $1000 for what you have already, and the competition is not
much better, why would you bother. How would you modify the existing tools? Harvey
We have seen some good innovation with soldering irons and cartridge
type heaters, but the desoldering tools still suck in all the wrong
ways.
One reason why I favor the metcal shaped tips for desoldering where possible. H.
@Kevin, I consider 350¡ãC the correct temperature setting for leaded
solder, with a high end of 400¡ãC if you have to.
That's 666¡ãF, easy to remember.
ST
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:29 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 20:18:57 +0100, you wrote:
I have a unit I like, has gun type with solder sucking pump through to the gun. However I seem to struggle when it comes to large planes of copper attached to the pad, am I doing something wrong or? Likely not. If it's a Hakko 808 (which I have) you don't control the
temperature, it's preset.
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 20:41:41 +0100, you wrote: I can adjust temp on mine, what should it be at? I'd put it above the melting point of the solder, but not too much more. The joint needs to be hot enough to melt the solder, but that's more a matter of heat capacity than temperature. You'd have to assume what kind of solder you have, and just melting another joint without cleaning it out would give you a good idea of the temperature. The reason that people put the tip up at a high temperature seems to be that they think that more heat is better, and while it dumps a bit of energy into a difficult joint, it will overheat stuff. More heat capacity is better, hence the hint with another soldering iron. Harvey
Thanks
Kevin
Thanks
Kevin
On 27 Jul 2018, at 20:29, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 20:18:57 +0100, you wrote:
I have a unit I like, has gun type with solder sucking pump through to the gun. However I seem to struggle when it comes to large planes of copper attached to the pad, am I doing something wrong or? Likely not. If it's a Hakko 808 (which I have) you don't control the
temperature, it's preset. You likely don't have enough heat at the
point of contact (I'm assuming something other than surface mount
parts, not including TO-252 parts with tabs). One trick is to have a
second soldering pencil to add heat and keep the solder liquid.
Harvey
Cheers Kevin
Thanks
Kevin
On 27 Jul 2018, at 19:57, stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
If the parts don't fall out by their own weight there's something
wrong with your desoldering tool.
That transformer I mentioned the other day, which I changed 50+ times,
I did that with the (very modified) chinese Zhongdi station.
It was a 12 pin throughhole part, ground planes on one side of it, but
I did oversize the holes slightly. I always do that on prototypes
where I expect to change parts often, otherwise 50+ soldering cycles
is unrealistic and the board is toast after maybe 10-20 cycles.
I would not want to work without a desoldering station, those spring
loaded eye pokers or desoldering braid do not even compare.
Sometimes when I make prototypes I steal comonents from junk boards
rather than get my ass out of the chair and fetch new ones, that's how
a decent desoldering tool must work, at minimum.
ST
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 8:47 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
Even if you can adjust the temperature, it's not much use.
The danger of lifting pads increases exponentially with temperature
and a hot setting can not really make up for a decent thermal path and
powerful, well controlled heating.
Sadly it doesn't look like any of the major soldering tool
manufacturers is willing to sit down for 5 minutes and simply analyze
the existing products to see how to make the perfect tool. If you can
charge $1000 for what you have already, and the competition is not
much better, why would you bother.
We have seen some good innovation with soldering irons and cartridge
type heaters, but the desoldering tools still suck in all the wrong
ways.
@Kevin, I consider 350¡ãC the correct temperature setting for leaded
solder, with a high end of 400¡ãC if you have to.
That's 666¡ãF, easy to remember.
ST
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:29 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote: On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 20:18:57 +0100, you wrote:
I have a unit I like, has gun type with solder sucking pump through to the gun. However I seem to struggle when it comes to large planes of copper attached to the pad, am I doing something wrong or? Likely not. If it's a Hakko 808 (which I have) you don't control the
temperature, it's preset.
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I can adjust temp on mine, what should it be at?
Thanks
Kevin
Thanks
Kevin
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27 Jul 2018, at 20:29, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 20:18:57 +0100, you wrote:
I have a unit I like, has gun type with solder sucking pump through to the gun. However I seem to struggle when it comes to large planes of copper attached to the pad, am I doing something wrong or? Likely not. If it's a Hakko 808 (which I have) you don't control the
temperature, it's preset. You likely don't have enough heat at the
point of contact (I'm assuming something other than surface mount
parts, not including TO-252 parts with tabs). One trick is to have a
second soldering pencil to add heat and keep the solder liquid.
Harvey
Cheers Kevin
Thanks
Kevin
On 27 Jul 2018, at 19:57, stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
If the parts don't fall out by their own weight there's something
wrong with your desoldering tool.
That transformer I mentioned the other day, which I changed 50+ times,
I did that with the (very modified) chinese Zhongdi station.
It was a 12 pin throughhole part, ground planes on one side of it, but
I did oversize the holes slightly. I always do that on prototypes
where I expect to change parts often, otherwise 50+ soldering cycles
is unrealistic and the board is toast after maybe 10-20 cycles.
I would not want to work without a desoldering station, those spring
loaded eye pokers or desoldering braid do not even compare.
Sometimes when I make prototypes I steal comonents from junk boards
rather than get my ass out of the chair and fetch new ones, that's how
a decent desoldering tool must work, at minimum.
ST
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 8:47 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
The thermal path (thermal conductivity) from the heater to the tip is
just as important with desoldering tools as it is with soldering
irons.
Sadly even the expensive ones are sometimes woefully lacking in that
regard, that's why you don't get your ground planes hot.
What you can do, if you have the access, is to use a regular iron to
help heating the plane from the other side, or at least preheat it
before you start desoldering.
Apply fresh leaded solder for better conductivity. Always wait until
the whole joint is molten through to the other side, then trigger the
vacuum and make a gentle circular motion.
I found the compressed air venturi generators superior. The vacuum is
surprisingly strong (-0.85 bar), and almost instant.
The only better way would be to have a "real" vacuum pump (rotary vane
or something) pull a near perfect vacuum on a large reservoir and then
open that up with a valve as needed. But I think the advantage over
venturi would be minimal.
The highest flow resistance, in my setup, is the thin metal tube
through the heater and to the tip. I wish someone made a desoldering
tool that has a large cross section there, like 4mm at least. With
vacuum you need large cross sections for good flow, since you always
have less than one athmosphere pushing it.
On that note - you can build "reverse" desoldering tools that shoot
the solder out with a jet of compressed air. Completely unsafe of
course, but it works, and I do that when I'm down in the mechanical
workshop and need to cleat a quick through hole.
I ought to go look at that moon thing now, but I think there's a cloud
in the way.
ST
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote: On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:47:33 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive. Selecting the tip temperature is important (where this adjustment is
available).
Heating the joint all the way through is also critical. Don't be
afraid to add solder so that no air gets sucked in.
The ones with the built in pumps are most convenient, but I wonder if
the ones that run off compressed air (bernouli principle) don't have a
sharper vacuum pulse.
The right tip diameter is also important.
Cleaning out the tips and filters is pretty critical, no suction, no
desoldering.
Harvey
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Burke" <burke.ray@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 9:10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless because you cant get the tips any
more, no more Radio Shack. I have used the Radio Shack Desoldering bulb,
(have one). Solder Wick, Solder Suckers and other tools, while they are
cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through
holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards). Don't
use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards.
Use at least a good Desoldering gun or station. Use at least a Hakko
FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are
others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work. I
just used it to repair my wifes monitor that died with no power, and opened
it up and found about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the
power supply, and fixed it. After getting the caps at Fry's it only took
me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO
PULLED PADS. One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best. I
got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and
Hakko had the tips for the thing. Now you could get some cheap Chinese
knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all. Buy at
least a Hakko and you won't be disappointed. The other main desoldering
companies are more expensive. You could check out the tear apart videos of
the www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@...> wrote:
I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain
of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local
parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through
our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which
was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by
Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an
hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin
Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good
solder, because there was very little waste.
We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around
1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production
line in one of the Orlando plants.
Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with,
even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had
to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder
balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early
ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were
tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality
hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow
profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few
months, as they continued to refine the profiles.
Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different
route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF
from a 1700 foot tower. :)
Michael A. Terrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.
Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.
But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.
I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.
Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.
-Chuck Harris
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 20:18:57 +0100, you wrote: I have a unit I like, has gun type with solder sucking pump through to the gun. However I seem to struggle when it comes to large planes of copper attached to the pad, am I doing something wrong or? Likely not. If it's a Hakko 808 (which I have) you don't control the temperature, it's preset. You likely don't have enough heat at the point of contact (I'm assuming something other than surface mount parts, not including TO-252 parts with tabs). One trick is to have a second soldering pencil to add heat and keep the solder liquid. Harvey
Cheers Kevin
Thanks
Kevin
On 27 Jul 2018, at 19:57, stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
If the parts don't fall out by their own weight there's something
wrong with your desoldering tool.
That transformer I mentioned the other day, which I changed 50+ times,
I did that with the (very modified) chinese Zhongdi station.
It was a 12 pin throughhole part, ground planes on one side of it, but
I did oversize the holes slightly. I always do that on prototypes
where I expect to change parts often, otherwise 50+ soldering cycles
is unrealistic and the board is toast after maybe 10-20 cycles.
I would not want to work without a desoldering station, those spring
loaded eye pokers or desoldering braid do not even compare.
Sometimes when I make prototypes I steal comonents from junk boards
rather than get my ass out of the chair and fetch new ones, that's how
a decent desoldering tool must work, at minimum.
ST
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 8:47 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: Compatibility between Series-5000 and TM500/TM5000 latches
I did the same thinking that the scope modules were compatible with the TM500 so I bought a lot of 6 plug ins cheap. Only a couple had compatible latch mechanisms, the other 4 were different. Best bet would be to have the seller take a picture of the latch mechanism from the side to be sure.
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:47:33 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive. Selecting the tip temperature is important (where this adjustment is available). Heating the joint all the way through is also critical. Don't be afraid to add solder so that no air gets sucked in. The ones with the built in pumps are most convenient, but I wonder if the ones that run off compressed air (bernouli principle) don't have a sharper vacuum pulse. The right tip diameter is also important. Cleaning out the tips and filters is pretty critical, no suction, no desoldering. Harvey
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Burke" <burke.ray@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 9:10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless?because you cant get the tips any
more, no more Radio Shack.? I have used the?Radio Shack Desoldering bulb,
(have one).? Solder Wick, Solder Suckers?and other tools, while they are
cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through
holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards).? Don't
use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards.
? Use at least a good?Desoldering gun or station.? Use at least a Hakko
FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are
others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work.? I
?just?used it to repair my wifes monitor?that died?with no power, and opened
it up and found?about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the
power supply, and fixed it.? After getting the caps at Fry's it only took
? me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO
PULLED PADS.? One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best.? I
got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and
Hakko had?the tips for the thing.? Now you could?get some cheap Chinese
knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all.? ??Buy at
least a Hakko?and you?won't be disappointed.?The other main desoldering
companies are more expensive.? You could check out the tear apart videos of
the ?www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@...> wrote:
I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain
of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local
parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through
our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which
was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by
Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an
hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin
Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good
solder, because there was very little waste.
We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around
1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production
line in one of the Orlando plants.
Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with,
even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had
to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder
balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early
ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were
tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality
hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow
profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few
months, as they continued to refine the profiles.
Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different
route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF
from a 1700 foot tower. :)
Michael A. Terrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines.? I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop.? I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating.? I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to.? Which was a lot.? I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.
Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.
But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.
I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C.? That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.
Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry.? It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.
-Chuck Harris
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have a unit I like, has gun type with solder sucking pump through to the gun. However I seem to struggle when it comes to large planes of copper attached to the pad, am I doing something wrong or?
Cheers Kevin
Thanks
Kevin
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27 Jul 2018, at 19:57, stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
If the parts don't fall out by their own weight there's something
wrong with your desoldering tool.
That transformer I mentioned the other day, which I changed 50+ times,
I did that with the (very modified) chinese Zhongdi station.
It was a 12 pin throughhole part, ground planes on one side of it, but
I did oversize the holes slightly. I always do that on prototypes
where I expect to change parts often, otherwise 50+ soldering cycles
is unrealistic and the board is toast after maybe 10-20 cycles.
I would not want to work without a desoldering station, those spring
loaded eye pokers or desoldering braid do not even compare.
Sometimes when I make prototypes I steal comonents from junk boards
rather than get my ass out of the chair and fetch new ones, that's how
a decent desoldering tool must work, at minimum.
ST
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 8:47 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
If the parts don't fall out by their own weight there's something
wrong with your desoldering tool.
That transformer I mentioned the other day, which I changed 50+ times,
I did that with the (very modified) chinese Zhongdi station.
It was a 12 pin throughhole part, ground planes on one side of it, but
I did oversize the holes slightly. I always do that on prototypes
where I expect to change parts often, otherwise 50+ soldering cycles
is unrealistic and the board is toast after maybe 10-20 cycles.
I would not want to work without a desoldering station, those spring
loaded eye pokers or desoldering braid do not even compare.
Sometimes when I make prototypes I steal comonents from junk boards
rather than get my ass out of the chair and fetch new ones, that's how
a decent desoldering tool must work, at minimum.
ST
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 8:47 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote: I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
At 11:50 AM 7/27/2018, Harvey White wrote: There's a local Rat Shack, but apparently this (and most) are all
franchise stores, carrying branded stuff, but not just that. There are about 400 RS franchise stores nationwide. In the course of my travels for work I get by two of them, one with a modest stock of RS parts and one with a better stock. The RS franchise store that has the b largest stock in my region is off my normal routes, but when I have time I detour there a few times each year to stock up. Dale H. Cook, GR/HP/Tek Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
Brass has quite poor heat conductivity, less than a third that of copper, not sure if that would still work. I don't know how well it holds up, since I have never seen a soldering tip made of brass, if it gets eaten like copper or no. If you want decent life you want to have iron plating. Some manufacturers (Plato, Ersa) even used to put little iron ferrules into their desoldering tips. I have cheap chinese desoldering stations at home and at work (Zhongdi ZD-915), but heavily modified. With the one at work there is very little left of the original station. They work so good now I was so far unable to find a better commercial station, even the $1000 ones are not as good as the cheap $100 chinese one, although they probably have well over $1000 in modification time in them. As soon as anyone demonstrates a better desoldering station he can have the $1000 I've put on the budget for it, but I won't give the money away for something that doesn't work as well as what I have come up with myself. I'd like to try the new ersa x-tool vario, it seems well thought out, but it was unavailable last time I tried to get one. ST On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 5:18 PM, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@...> wrote: I only lifted a couple pads, out of thousands. The ones that did lift were on very low grade consumer products. I agree that there are better methods available today, but what else was available to most of us, in the pre-internet days?
I have about a dozen new spare tips, and a 7x14 metal lathe. Some hard brass rod and a little time machining it will give me more of them if I ever need them. I'm in my late 60s, and no longer spend full days reworking PC boards.
I worked at a defense plant back in the '70s, after my time in the Army. The women doing the rework had no desoldering irons, only wet wicking. They were all put through the NASA approved soldering course, yet I could do things they couldn't. Their boss 'borrowed' me to teach them some new things, in spite of their union steward's instance that no man could solder. I spent the rest of my time there doing QA and Module interchangeability on the PRC77 manpack radios.
Michael A. Terrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Burke <burke.ray@...>
Sent: Jul 27, 2018 10:10 AM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless because you cant get the tips any more, no more Radio Shack. I have used the Radio Shack Desoldering bulb, (have one). Solder Wick, Solder Suckers and other tools, while they are cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards). Don't use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards. Use at least a good Desoldering gun or station. Use at least a Hakko FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work. I just used it to repair my wife's monitor that died with no power, and opened it up and found about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the power supply, and fixed it. After getting the caps at Fry's it only took me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO PULLED PADS. One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best. I got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and Hakko had the tips for the thing. Now you could get some cheap Chinese knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all. Buy at least a Hakko and you won't be disappointed. The other main desoldering companies are more expensive. You could check out the tear apart videos of the www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@...> wrote:
I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good solder, because there was very little waste.
We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around 1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production line in one of the Orlando plants.
Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with, even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few months, as they continued to refine the profiles.
Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF from a 1700 foot tower. :)
Michael A. Terrell
|
Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something like the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in less than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out. Impressive.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Burke" <burke.ray@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 9:10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless?because you cant get the tips any
more, no more Radio Shack.? I have used the?Radio Shack Desoldering bulb,
(have one).? Solder Wick, Solder Suckers?and other tools, while they are
cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through
holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards).? Don't
use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards.
? Use at least a good?Desoldering gun or station.? Use at least a Hakko
FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are
others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work.? I
?just?used it to repair my wifes monitor?that died?with no power, and opened
it up and found?about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the
power supply, and fixed it.? After getting the caps at Fry's it only took
? me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO
PULLED PADS.? One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best.? I
got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and
Hakko had?the tips for the thing.? Now you could?get some cheap Chinese
knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all.? ??Buy at
least a Hakko?and you?won't be disappointed.?The other main desoldering
companies are more expensive.? You could check out the tear apart videos of
the ?www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@...> wrote:
I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain
of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local
parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through
our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which
was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by
Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an
hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin
Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good
solder, because there was very little waste.
We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around
1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production
line in one of the Orlando plants.
Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with,
even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had
to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder
balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early
ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were
tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality
hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow
profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few
months, as they continued to refine the profiles.
Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different
route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF
from a 1700 foot tower. :)
Michael A. Terrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines.? I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop.? I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating.? I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to.? Which was a lot.? I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.
Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.
But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.
I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C.? That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.
Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry.? It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.
-Chuck Harris
|
Soviet sampling system, and more
Another of my not-quite-off-topic posts about the Soviet plugin scope series that was clearly inspired by the Tek 7k series. Having started investigating this stuff, I'm now playing a sort of plugin Pokemon - gotta get 'em all.
I'm excited about a consignment which is now on its way to me from St Petersburg containing not only the Ya4S-95 and Ya4S-96 sampling plugins, but also the elusive sampling head which goes with them, and in addition a Ya4S-89 pulse generator complete with its tunnel diode heads. This setup is roughly equivalent to a 7T11/dual 7S11 configuration with a pair of S-6 30ps feedthrough samplers and an S-52 pulse generator. I can't wait to find out how (and indeed if) it performs.
Sadly its only the earlier '12GHz' sampling system, not the later '18GHz' one, but fascinating (and probably actually quite useful) nonetheless.
More details next week when I get my hands on the package, all being well.
Chris
|
Re: What type plastic case for 1502-1503 TDR?
For quite some time, large plastic parts often have had the plastic type identified with a stamp built into the molding dies. I don't know if this was common back then, but you can try looking around at the insides of the parts for any ID marks. It may be a recognizable code, like "ABS," or possibly something cryptic, making it more difficult. If you can ID the type, that would help to figure out the best bonding methods.
I would think that nowadays, any plastic parts above a certain size have standardized codes stamped in, for recycling purposes.
Ed
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Re: What type plastic case for 1502-1503 TDR?
I have used methylene chloride (dichloromethane) very successfully on 1502 cases. I've repaired both hairline cracks and 1" bits chipped/broken off without problems.
Be careful, since it is an unpleasant chemical.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27/07/18 17:27, Carl Hallberg via Groups.Io wrote: I had one of the cases repaired by a person who uses plastic welding and it turned out bad. He wasn't sure what the material was. Looking inside the case I can see some type of dark glue that attached the original segments. Searching the manuals gave no indication, but maybe I missed it. Would be nice if there is a solvent type glue. Thanks in advance.
Carl Hallberg (W9CJH)
|
What type plastic case for 1502-1503 TDR?
I had one of the cases repaired by a person who uses plastic welding and it turned out bad. He wasn't sure what the material was. Looking inside the case I can see some type of dark glue that attached the original segments. Searching the manuals gave no indication, but maybe I missed it. Would be nice if there is a solvent type glue. Thanks in advance.
Carl Hallberg (W9CJH)
|
Re: All TekScopes email sent to Spam
Thanks to all who responded to my problem. Some didn't know that my email server is YAHOO, and mentioned only groups.io. When we do a round table discussion the original message gets lost. I no longer have the problem.
Carl Hallberg (W9CJH)
--------------------------------------------
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, 7/25/18, Carl Hallberg via Groups.Io <n9ess@...> wrote: Subject: [TekScopes] All TekScopes email sent to Spam To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2018, 1:35 PM Help, Now all my TekScopes email is sent to spam folder.? Is this a Yahoo problem?? Carl Hallberg? (W9CJH)
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On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:21:50 -0400, you wrote:
There's a local Rat Shack, but apparently this (and most) are all franchise stores, carrying branded stuff, but not just that. Normally don't need to go there. Harvey
Hope this appropriate ...
FYI
I received this just moments ago ...
Hobbyist? Maker? Do-It-Yourselfer?
Announcing over 60 new RadioShack Express HobbyTown stores stocked with everything you need to build, play, and learn!
Visit a participating HobbyTown or RadioShack dealer near you for tools, solder, parts, components, batteries, and more.
Copyright ? 2018 General Wireless Operations Inc, dba RadioShack
801 NE 38th Street Fort Worth, Texas 76106
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joel R Kist
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 11:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
Radio Shack is NOT gone ... Just wanted to let all know: check listing in your area: also they have other companies selling their items much like Sears did.
Joel
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Burke
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 10:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless because you cant get the tips any more, no more Radio Shack. I have used the Radio Shack Desoldering bulb, (have one). Solder Wick, Solder Suckers and other tools, while they are cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards). Don't use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards. Use at least a good Desoldering gun or station. Use at least a Hakko FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work. I just used it to repair my wifes monitor that died with no power, and opened it up and found about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the power supply, and fixed it. After getting the caps at Fry's it only took me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO PULLED PADS. One other
thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best. I got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and Hakko had the tips for the thing. Now you could get some cheap Chinese knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all. Buy at least a Hakko and you won't be disappointed. The other main desoldering companies are more expensive. You could check out the tear apart videos of the www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@...> wrote:
I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good solder, because there was very little waste.
We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around 1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production line in one of the Orlando plants.
Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with, even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few months, as they continued to refine the profiles.
Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF from a 1700 foot tower. :)
Michael A. Terrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.
Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.
But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.
I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.
Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.
-Chuck Harris
|
Hope this appropriate ...
FYI
I received this just moments ago ...
Hobbyist? Maker? Do-It-Yourselfer?
Announcing over 60 new RadioShack Express HobbyTown stores stocked with everything you need to build, play, and learn!
Visit a participating HobbyTown or RadioShack dealer near you for tools, solder, parts, components, batteries, and more.
Copyright ? 2018 General Wireless Operations Inc, dba RadioShack
801 NE 38th Street Fort Worth, Texas 76106
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Joel R Kist Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 11:12 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire Radio Shack is NOT gone ... Just wanted to let all know: check listing in your area: also they have other companies selling their items much like Sears did. Joel -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Burke Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 10:11 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless because you cant get the tips any more, no more Radio Shack. I have used the Radio Shack Desoldering bulb, (have one). Solder Wick, Solder Suckers and other tools, while they are cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads, through holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards). Don't use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit boards. Use at least a good Desoldering gun or station. Use at least a Hakko FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there are others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work. I just used it to repair my wifes monitor that died with no power, and opened it up and found about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on the power supply, and fixed it. After getting the caps at Fry's it only took me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun, NO PULLED PADS. One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best. I got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more and Hakko had the tips for the thing. Now you could get some cheap Chinese knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all. Buy at least a Hakko and you won't be disappointed. The other main desoldering companies are more expensive. You could check out the tear apart videos of the www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones. On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@...> wrote: I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good solder, because there was very little waste. We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around 1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production line in one of the Orlando plants. Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with, even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few months, as they continued to refine the profiles. Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF from a 1700 foot tower. :) Michael A. Terrell -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.
Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.
But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.
I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.
Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.
-Chuck Harris
|
Dale H. Cook