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I agree with you, Gail. Getting a waterlogged hull dried out takes
lots of PATIENCE, but it's worth every bit of it! My '75 hull started
out at 210 lb. I cut inspection ports and circulated air using a 6"
fan face down in one port. After a couple of weeks, I set it out in
the sun and used black plastic around one port opening, to create a
deck "hot spot". I also fashioned a sort of "wind scoop" (using
poster board) to direct wind flow through the hull. After 3 months of
diligence, my boat now weighs 140 lb! (I'll try posting a photo of it
in the "Photo" section, under "Hull repair".)
Now for the fun part...SAILING!

Now that's an effective way to get the water out! Wish I had a place I
could set that up for 3-5 days and try it!

Sincerely,

Gail
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~
Gail M. Turluck
ISCA Masters Coordinator
USSCA Masters Coordinator
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~

Hi everybody,

Nice attitude Gail, I've always thought work for two
days and sail for five was a great way to go.

From personal experience, 185lbs to 128lbs,
inspection ports and an old fashioned portable
dehumidifier and a big piece of plastic. Install the
ports, set the dehumdifier in the cockpit, seal the
boat in plastic. Check the catch pan about every 6
hours for the first day then twice daily for about
three days. Works great.

Jeff

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Hello Gail,

Your dissertation on maintenance and the enjoyment of sailing is fabulous -
many thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with
this group.

Dear Wayne,

My view on the waterlogged blocks issue is that it took years (anywhere from
10 to 40) for the water to get in; folks buying a used Sunfish that is
waterlogged simply need to realize it's going to take some dedicated time to
get it back out! Either one plunks down $3K to get a new boat with all the
trimmings, or plunks down a lot less, deals with some inconvenience, and
someday, with dedicated attention, ends up with a decent boat. I don't
recommend replacing the blocks.

I don't think the blocks can absorb much more than 60-80 lbs. in water.
There is a point where they are saturated. And, what's amazing, is even
when the hull of those boats is full of water and the deck is awash, the
hulls still don't sink to the bottom. Much to be said for always staying
with the boat in a capsize, etc.

The only question on too heavy comes up with people who are racing their
Sunfish. Racers are pretty uniform in agreement that a hull much over 135
lbs. is too heavy; yet I know plenty of outstanding Sunfish sailors who are
still racing their '70's and early '80's era hulls that are beat up, leaky,
heavy, and still kick my ***! There used to be a big push on the part of
some folks to sort through hulls when delivered to dealers, weighing each
hull, trying to find that "magic" one that came in at 118-123 pounds.
However, those are the hulls that were the quickest to leak, soften, etc.,
and ultimately end up being replaced. Again, for racers, one outstanding
start, one or two good roll tacks, one properly read wind shift, will make
up all the difference "gained" by having perfect equipment.

For day sailors, I guess the too heavy question could come about if two
adults are trying to car top their Sunfish. Most day sailors, however,
either trail or sail out of their back yards, and can come up with the
couple extra hands needed for the boat while it's heavy until they get it
back close to original weight (read on ...).

Knowing what a huge job it is to separate the deck from the hull, pry out
the old blocks, cleanup, find, cut and install new ones (and they really
should be reinstalled with the 2-part expando-foam that has been
traditionally available from the manufacturer), and then re-seal the deck to
the hull, I personally don't think it's EVER worth the work, unless the
individual is a born tinkerer and likes a major challenge. And has a garage
full of tools. And enough room to tie up having a boat in the way for 2-6
weeks while the project is accomplished.

That first year of sailing the waterlogged boat will be rewarding, because
it's new to the owner and they'll start to enjoy this great little craft.
This can be the season to install the inspection ports, start drying the
hull when not sailing it, repair the leaks in the hull as they are found,
but also taking time to enjoy the boat. Yes it will be a bit heavy, but she
still will sail. So long as the user comes up with a way to launch, move
and retrieve the heavier hull during this first year of transition back to
great condition, all will be fine.

That second year, after the boat has had a whole year to dry out by applying
the many, many methods of drying (including finding someplace heated over
the winter and blowing that nice, dehydrated air directly through the hull
all winter long), will be doubly rewarding, as the now lightened Sunfish
will pop with response to puffs, quick mainsheet trims, etc.

In one summer I had 3 boats on the solar diet, also utilizing air forced by
an electric box fan blown through dryer vent hoses into the inspection port
holes in the deck to ensure constant air flow. (An air "funnel" was created
off the fan by twist tying a heavy garbage bag onto the corners of the fan;
the dryer vent hoses were simply duct taped onto holes in the garbage bag,
and dryer vent hoses duct taped onto inspection port holes in the
deck--simple, cheap, etc.) One boat had started at 165 lbs., ended at 145.
The second started at 160 lbs., ended at 140. The third started at 155
lbs., ended at 135. Any older hull which gets down to 135 or less is
basically completely dry. I needed to reclaim my back yard which is why the
drying was discontinued, though I know the boats will continue to dry out
(and lose weight).

For what a Sunfish is, I also don't recommend people worry too much about
repainting them. The days they lose to prettying them up are days they
could have been sailing them instead! And, they may go nuts when the finish
gets scratched (and it WILL get scratched). And, I'm on my 4th boat that
I'm stripping paint off of because the finish is all scratched up, the
original color underneath doesn't match the color on top, so it all looks
bad; stripping the paint off isn't so good for the gel and glass, and
sanding it off takes off some of the good gel, which isn't so good either.
My view is that holes and major leaks should be repaired, minor leaks are
dealt with by drying the boat out in between sails, and that the sailor's
time is best spent either sailing, learning about sailing or coming up with
the means so that they can go sailing.

Sunfish hulls develop cracks and crazes. Very, very few of them leak. In
between the cockpit tub and the bottom of the boat (Alcort hulls) there are
round globs of glue used to support the tub and hold the tub and hull bottom
together. Invariably, cracks develop around these globs. (Vanguard hulls
now have longitudinal strips of glue performing the same job, so newer boats
are developing lengthwise cracks along the glue globs.) Very, very few of
these leak. They develop as relief for crew weight shifting in the boat,
kids climbing around them on shore, etc., and seldom are a problem (only
boats I've seen with a problem with the disks actually leaking were Pearson
manufactured hulls, circa 90-91-ish). The other major location for cracks
is along the bottom outside edge of the hull, the "chine." The fiberglass
is so thick there that those cracks are the least likely to leak of all. If
there is a leak, a small repair is usually all that's necessary.

There really isn't a need to pay normal cracks and crazes any attention
unless the individual is racing, and then just to sand it fairly smooth (400
grit or finer). One good roll tack will make up for any difference in speed
gained or lost by coming up with the "perfect bottom." For fiberglass
repairs, if the individual is handy and can make the repair so it is
slightly depressed and gel can be applied over it (and wax papered while it
sets up, sanded, faired, etc.), that is a nice touch.

Most hull bottoms are white. My recommendation is to thoroughly clean the
bottom first (I've found that bathroom cleaners do an outstanding job of
cleaning Sunfish hulls). Then, get some buffing compound and polish the
hull. It's amazing how nicely the gel responds to being "restored" in this
fashion. The colored decks of old boats also pop back close to original
color when buffed. If the boat is being day sailed, then yes, go ahead a
wax it. That will delay the weathering and fading of the finish. For
racers, no wax (it slightly slows the boat through the water--not enough for
day sailors to worry about). Racers will be going over the boat often
enough that fading shouldn't be a problem. The super fastidious sailor will
polish once a year, but once every 3-5 is plenty often enough, too. My vote
more often is to go sailing (I think I'm developing a pattern here ...).
8-) The white of Alcort made hulls is closely approximated by white Marine
Tex and by white Gel sold anywhere. There may be a slight color difference,
but it's not worth worrying about. Just buff it up and go sailing.

Another quick fix option for folks making fiberglass patch repairs to hulls
is to simply hit the repair spots with some spray paint, approximately the
same color, and to feather it in and buff. Don't sweat making a perfect
match. Get your repair fairly smooth, apply the color, make sure it dries
thoroughly, and go sailing. From more than 10 feet away no one will ever
notice that the color is not a perfect match.

So, a rather lengthy reply to a somewhat simple query, but I've spent enough
time working on these things, thinking I could make them "good as new" and
realized it's just not worth the effort, that I think it's best to encourage
people to enjoy them instead! So long as they're fairly watertight, repairs
are decently smooth and feathered in, and parts are maintained, the boats
hold their value very well. A gallon inside the hull after a whole day's
enjoyment is not a big deal. The important thing is to drain it out, sponge
it out, dry it out, and keep 'er light. That's the secret!

Have a great weekend everyone. Go sailing!!

Sincerely,

Gail
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~
Gail M. Turluck
ISCA Masters Coordinator
USSCA Masters Coordinator
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~

Hi Gail,

The situation of waterlogged hulls seems to come up every year. In the
course of addressing the problem no one mentions how much weight is just too
much. There must be a dividing line between successful drying and having to
replace the blocks.

The cases where I have replaced blocks have all appeared extreme to me - 70
lbs. or more of additional hull weight. In these instances drying times
looked like they were going to far exceed a month based on the results from
one or two weeks of solar or power drying.

I know that you have a bit more exposure to various Sunfish than I do. ;^)
Do you have a feel for the point at which the blocks should simply be
replaced?


Wayne
77742

Hi Greg,

By the way, welcome to the group.


I took a look at your photos......

Here's my 2 worth:

The chipped section -
Using a putty knife, awl, utility knife - something like that remove all the
loosened gelcoat and then sand or dremel the edges back a bit more so you
are into an area where there is a good solid gelcoat to glass bond. I don't
recommend grinding/dremeling/sanding into the glass fiber unless you truly
need to make a repair there. If the glass roving is delaminating rather than
just scuffed you may want to add some resin/milled fiber mix to stabilize
it. If it is really bad you will need to cut it out and patch the glass
before continuing.

Tape off the area and fill the depression with gelcoat. You might add a
small amount of milled glass to the gelcoat for a bit more strength. Sand
smooth to match the surrounding hull. Keep in mind that gelcoat takes a lot
longer to "kick" and then totally harden than plain polyester resin does. I
usually give it 12 to 24 hours before I sand, depending on ambient
temperature and humidity.


Hairline cracks -
Use gelcoat putty to fill the cracks. Sand smooth.



Finishing the job -
Repaint the bottom.... you could use two part epoxy filler primer and forego
the gelcoat paste. There are several ways to repaint - Two part epoxy paint,
re-gelcoat, one part paints, such as EZ-Poxy. You will have to do the
homework and choose what you like to work with.


A note on epoxy paint (and repair materials) - If you do a repair using
polyester resin and glass (Fiberglass) in an area where epoxy has been
previously applied the epoxy material must be completely removed and cleaned
before applying the fiberglass materials. I mention all this stuff about
epoxy because it is all the rage right now. It has its place for sure, but
IMHO it's more expensive and a bit more difficult to work with - and on a
Sunfish the benefits are minimal.


Some resources:

"The Fiberglass Repair and Construction Handbook", Jack Wiley, McGraw Hill







Check out the tech advice provided by these last two -






Good Luck,

Wayne

Sorry about that. I posted all of the photos I had on
the group under the folder hull damage.
Thanks,
Greg


--- Wayne Carney <wcarney@...> wrote:

Hi Greg,

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Ferenz [mailto:gjferenz@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 6:04 PM
Subject: [sunfish_sailor] Newbie with restoration

questions.

.... What I found underneath can be seen in the

pictures.

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]


I gather that you attached some photos to your
message. Unfortunately, as a
guard against virus attacks through the group mail,
this group does not
allow attachments.

The group does welcome uploads to either the PHOTOS
or the FILES section of
the group web page:


Please go ahead and post your photos to the group
web site so we can see
what you are up against.


Wayne

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Hey Ed,

Great pics !

Looks like your daughter is sailing faster than you are. 8^)

Oh, and the duck in your photo is a nice touch.


Wayne

Hi Greg,

Hello,
I finally pulled the fish from the basement, where it
sat for the last 5 years. While washing it, I decided
to sand off the paint that had been put on by the
previous owner. What I found underneath can be seen
in the pictures.

The first picture shows where there is about a 1 inch
square patch of exposed mat near the bow. The second
shows circular spider cracks found on the hull
underneath the cockpit.

I plan on grinding away these areas, re-laminating if
necessary and then filling over with some and fairing
compound. Am I opening up a can of worms? Is this
going to be more work than its worth? After I finish
should I paint the hull? What type of paint should I
use?
Thanks in advance,
Greg

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Suggest you go to www.windline.net and read extensively. Lots of good tips
and tricks for drying out a Sunfish hull. Note: no matter what method is
used, patience and time is required.

Sincerely,

Gail
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~
Gail M. Turluck
ISCA Masters Coordinator
USSCA Masters Coordinator
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~

J,

Please remind me again, how much weight has your boat gained?

I've never heard of vacuuming out the water. What sort of approach are you
thinking of?


Wayne

Hi all,

I was very interested to read the messages regarding water in the
sunfish. Since the hair dryer approach didn't seem to dry out the
floatation material I was wondering if a wet-dry vac would draw the
water out? what effect would it have on the floation material?


Thanks in advance for any comments,

J.

--- In sunfish_sailor@..., "Wayne" <wcarney@f...> wrote:
Wayne,
I was out getting my wisdom teeth removed. The Other Fish folder is a
good idea. I took a look at the Barracuda. The nose and splash rail
look very similar. The storage area is in the similar place, but mine
has no cover and the cockpit extends right up to it. There is only a
mast tube on the Express Wind.

Adi

Adi,

Take a look in the PHOTOS section at the "Other Fish" folder. Check
out the Barracuda photos. Does this look like your boat by any

chance?

Wayne

Hi Nolan,

The current factory setup instructions counts rings UP from the bottom and
it says to tie the halyard between the 9th and 10th sail rings. However, the
diagram shows the halyard between the 8th and 9th sail rings as you
observed.

It is a bit confusing, but I recommend experience as the best way to judge
what is best for your sailing style. Try it in different locations and see
how you like it. I see resort pictures where they tie between the 7th and
8th and even 6th and 7th for recreational sailing, but I don't personally
recommend the last point at all. I even wonder if that boat was just thrown
together for the photo session.

You can adjust the gooseneck position** too. Sliding the boom back a little
will raise the aft end some. There are positive and negative efficiencies
associated with these moves, but if having fun is your chief objective they
shouldn't matter much.

** adjusting the gooseneck position on a boat without
an adjustable "quick-release" gooseneck may prove to
be a challenge because it requires tools [hard to
do at the beach] and the gooseneck pinch bolt is
often frozen.

Keep this in mind, when the sail is up high the boat is more prone to
capsize in a gust unless you are watching carefully and reacting quickly.


One last note: With nearly all dinghies ducking the boom to some degree is a
way of life. You don't usually find total head clearance until you move into
the 20'+ boats.


Good sailing,

Wayne

I've seen several photos where there seems to be more room between the
deck and the lower boom (especially at the gooseneck) than on my boat. I'm
wondering if my mast is set lower in the step, is shorter than normal, or
if my halyard and gooseneck are in the wrong places.

The parts schematic at Yanke Boats ()
shows the halyard secured to the upper boom halfway between the sixth and
seventh sail rings. The same diagram also shows the gooseneck just inches
forward of the second sail ring from the bow. Are these the standard
placements? What is the normal clearance for a "cruising" (i.e.,
non-racing) configuration?

fair winds and following seas,

Nolan Habegger
The Woodlands, TX

email: nhabegger@...

A note on the foam blocks. A buddy of mine bought a beater Sunfish I had
... He pulled out the styrofoam blocks and left them in his heated basement
for a winter. In the spring when he went to pick them up to take them to
the store to buy replacement styrofoam, voila! The water had all dried out
of them in the heated, dry air in the house and all he had to do was
reinstall them.

I suggest to folks with a waterlogged boat to install 2 inspection ports, 1
behind the splash rail and 1 on the back deck. Then, over the winter store
the boat in a heated space--garage, basement, warehouse, etc. If at all
possible, rig up a section of dryer hose to a forced air outlet and blow the
heated, dry air into the hull ... for the whole winter. The boat should be
fairly dry and much lighter come April. I know, wrong time of year for this
message, but if you're patient, it will work.

--G
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~
Gail M. Turluck
ISCA Masters Coordinator
USSCA Masters Coordinator
ICSA Afterguard Events Chair
Director, Chelsea Music Boosters
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~

Ed,

I am thinking that at the time your Gulf Coast was built foam floatation may
not have been a Coast Guard requirement. Don't quote me on this, though.
It's something I may research when I have some time. Anyway......,

For boats that do have foam, if water sits inside the hull for any length of
time the foam usually begins to absorb it. Eventually the boat weight
increases noticeably. To dry the foam you must install an inspection port
and then circulate air inside the hull - for a long time.

I took a set of totally waterlogged foam blocks out of a 60's Sunfish. The
blocks sat outside in the sun and after two years they still weighed about
80 lb. each. So, it's better to keep the hull dry in the first place.
Draining the water after a day's sail should be a regular routine.

BTW Ed, I moved your GC photos to a new folder named "Other Fish". A couple
of members have been sending me photos of Sunfish and Sailfish knockoffs. I
started the folder so people can post pictures of Sunfish look-a-likes as a
way to help ID other brand boats. In time I hope we develop a good reference
section.


Wayne

Foam blocks?

My fish clone (Gulf Coast circa 1971) as far as I can tell has no such item
in it. As I have no inspection port, though I looked up her drain plug and
all I see is the structural fiberglass covered beams and hull, deck, etc.

Recently had her on the water near the San Francisco Bay where my daughter
solo'd. Took on very little water but she does not seem to gain weight
after being drained so I don't think there is any foam.

I'll add photo of solo and myself to the members photos.

Cheers,

Ed