These things go in surges and lulls .? I started a Milwaukee Road list on Yahoo back then and the activity looks like a roller coaster.? I'll bet if you ask a question about the SN, someone will pop up with your answer. Sacramento Northern was a neat Interurban. I feel very lucky that I got to work a few SN lines off the Western Pacific Brakeman's board in Stockton CA. The SN lines I worked were all abbreviated as they were segments of the original mainline.? I've been Stockton to the Port Chicago Interchange via the Underpass ! Only got to do that once.? Now that summer is over and the kids back in school , things will pick back up .? Hopefully there's been some Fero Equine Archaeology? adventures along the former SN that will be shared? from this summer !
On Sun, Sep 3, 2023 at 8:22?PM Jim Baker < jrbaker5@...> wrote: I have been lurking in the shadows.
--Jim Baker ? ?Whittier, CA
On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 08:13:06 PM PDT, Bill Shippen < pitstopharold@...> wrote:
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
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MoW 83. June 1956, unknown location. Can someone ID the location? 
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I have been lurking in the shadows.
--Jim Baker ? ?Whittier, CA
On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 08:13:06 PM PDT, Bill Shippen <pitstopharold@...> wrote:
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
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Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
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Re: Northern Electric Article
Thank you Garth, a true treasure of information.?
~Bill Shippen?
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Re: Northern Electric 3rd Rail Details
I'm not sure what that diagram is actually showing.... but it is not third rail placement. Firstly the rails that sits on the white painted "rest" is both lower than the running rails and secondly they are too far away from the running rails to be part of the traction voltage supply system.
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Re: Northern Electric 3rd Rail Details
Here is the SN Standards drawing for 3rd rail setup. I got copies of a bunch of standards drawings years ago.?  Mike Dreiling
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On Jul 1, 2023, at 06:14, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Nathan,
My apologies for not getting back with you sooner. I've had a lot of non-train stuff on my plate, and your question slipped lower and lower in my in-box.
Unfortunately, I don't have the original drawing to work from, which was scaled at 1/2" to the foot. Nearly all the dimensions are blurred into obscurity on the electronic version. With a lot of math, some fussing and metric conversions from the distance between the running rails, I have figured the distance from the centerline of the 3rd rail to the inside edge of the running rail (as shown on the drawing) to be about 2' 3". The 3rd rail's top level above the running rails looks like about 6". For modeling purposes, these?numbers are probably close enough.
I ran through my books this morning looking for any description of the 3rd rail. About all I found was in Demoro's book where he says the 3rd rail was 60# standard railroad rail, except for low-carbon/low manganese?48# rail on the Colusa branch. No dimensional information at all, but Demoro wasn't really into technical data (as I found out when I was asked to edit his chapter on equipment). Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN isn't much better. I suspect if you need to know more, you will have to check the WRM archives.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
Garth, thanks for this drawing.? Can you make out the dimensions listed for the 3rd rail height above the running rails and the offset distance from the inside of the running rails to the center line of the 3rd rail?? Thanks many times over for your knowledge and support.
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Last Northern Electric pages 21-25
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Northern Electric pages 16-20
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Northern Electric pages 11-15
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Northern Electric pages 6-10
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Northern Electric Article
Friends,
Some of you weren't able to open the Northern Electric article that I linked yesterday.
I've been requested to post the relevant pages, but all the pages potentially are relevant to somebody. I've taken screen shots of all 25 pages, changed them to gray scale, and done some light sharpening.
I'm going to send them 5 pages at a time. I suggest you save them on your hard drive, as the Internet Archive may not be available someday.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Re: Northern Electric Article
When I downloaded the file it became the whole 1912 six-month volume.
There were some other interesting articles.
The magazine was heavily based on West Coast sites.
--Jim Baker, Whittier CA
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Re: Northern Electric Article
I can't get this to work. Can you copy the pertinent pages and post them?
Bill Shippen?
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Northern Electric Article
Friends,
As I was doing some follow-up to Nathan's question about the SN's?3rd rail, I found the source of the original article. It is from the JOURNAL OF ELECTRICITY, POWER AND GAS for 23 April 1910. The article runs from page 367 to 391, and includes a detailed description of the line at that time, plus dozens of rare early photos and diagrams. This is well worth bookmarking:
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Re: Northern Electric 3rd Rail Details
Nathan,
My apologies for not getting back with you sooner. I've had a lot of non-train stuff on my plate, and your question slipped lower and lower in my in-box.
Unfortunately, I don't have the original drawing to work from, which was scaled at 1/2" to the foot. Nearly all the dimensions are blurred into obscurity on the electronic version. With a lot of math, some fussing and metric conversions from the distance between the running rails, I have figured the distance from the centerline of the 3rd rail to the inside edge of the running rail (as shown on the drawing) to be about 2' 3". The 3rd rail's top level above the running rails looks like about 6". For modeling purposes, these?numbers are probably close enough.
I ran through my books this morning looking for any description of the 3rd rail. About all I found was in Demoro's book where he says the 3rd rail was 60# standard railroad rail, except for low-carbon/low manganese?48# rail on the Colusa branch. No dimensional information at all, but Demoro wasn't really into technical data (as I found out when I was asked to edit his chapter on equipment). Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN isn't much better. I suspect if you need to know more, you will have to check the WRM archives.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
Garth, thanks for this drawing.? Can you make out the dimensions listed for the 3rd rail height above the running rails and the offset distance from the inside of the running rails to the center line of the 3rd rail?? Thanks many times over for your knowledge and support.
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Re: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bC8rga1lyR0&feature=share
Thank you Daniel, What do you think is the best scenery from the pre 1957 South end other than 40th and Shafter? Rockridge? ?
Thank you for sending this. Really enjoyed some of the history including why electric service lasted longer in Marysville / Yuba city and how the SN maintained its own brand until the WP merged with the UP. Very nice layout as well. Good scenery?and plantings and weathering
On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 9:14?AM Justin Rowe via <justingrowe= [email protected]> wrote:
Great N-Scale?SN video on YouTube. I don¡¯t remember seeing it here. I almost used an ArnoldSteeple Cab for the SN. It looks like a nice engine.?
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Re: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bC8rga1lyR0&feature=share
Thank you for sending this. Really enjoyed some of the history including why electric service lasted longer in Marysville / Yuba city and how the SN maintained its own brand until the WP merged with the UP. Very nice layout as well. Good scenery?and plantings and weathering
On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 9:14?AM Justin Rowe via <justingrowe= [email protected]> wrote:
Great N-Scale?SN video on YouTube. I don¡¯t remember seeing it here. I almost used an ArnoldSteeple Cab for the SN. It looks like a nice engine.?
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=bC8rga1lyR0&feature=share
Great N-Scale?SN video on YouTube. I don¡¯t remember seeing it here. I almost used an ArnoldSteeple Cab for the SN. It looks like a nice engine.?
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Bill and Friends,
I would say very rare, and also valuable if the slide has a processing date on it. I don't recognize the location.
Attached are two photos of 1642 from my collection, both at West Sacramento. The first was taken by my father (Glenn Groff), probably around 1972 (the slide was not dated). Note the reweight date, "SAC 6-70", which possibly indicates when the car was serviced and repainted at the WP Jeffrey Shops. The second is my own shot (it was almost dark) from 1976.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
Hi there:
On Ebay there is a slide of 1642 with brownish paint and the bay window is green. I saw 1642 in Chico as a kid and it was from memory solid green.? So, is this a rare view I wonder or?
~Bill?
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Philip Schmierer
Bilton
