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Happy Saturday! Progress continues slowly, but here is a shot from the workbench this morning. Is anyone else doing any modeling? Michael Starkey 
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Re: Northern Electric 100
Jim,
I'm going to be busy with some other non-railroad?projects during the next few weeks (the re-enactment season is gearing up). I have plans to post more SN stuff from my own collection soon.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 9:27?PM James Dolan < dolan@...> wrote: Hi Garth,
Thanks very much for ferreting out all of these early NE photos. Cool stuff!
Cheers,
James
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Re: Northern Electric 100
Hi Garth,
Thanks very much for ferreting out all of these early NE photos. Cool stuff!
Cheers,
James
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Friends,
Attached is the last of my scavenging?expedition. The photo from the Electric Railway Journal shows NE combine 100 in as-built condition, complete with PE-style pneumatic trolley bases and St. Louis trucks (later replaced with Baldwin MCB).
This photo has been widely reproduced, and appeared in both Swett's and Demoro's books.
NE 100 was a 1906 Niles product. She was wrecked at Harter in 1935, and sat derelict at Chico until?scrapped in 1941.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Good friends,
Tonight I am posting a photo of Ramon. This photo is on page 308 of Demoro's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN where he states this is circa 1920. Actually, the version attached is from Railway Locomotive and Engineering (1916).
As a bonus, I also found a photo of Ramon's engine. I am told that the Smithsonian has one of her pistons in their collection.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Northern Electric 3rd Rail
Friends,
This morning I am offering two more photos from the Electric Railway Journal circa 1909, both showing the 3rd rail.
The first shows right-of-way at an unnamed location. From the scenery, I suggest this is near Marysville or Chico, rather than closer to Sacramento. But who knows? Note the neatly trimmed ballast and excellent trackwork. Quite a contrast to much of the SN in diesel days.
The second is a panorama of the bright and shiny Mulberry Shops and yard in Chico. All that 3rd rail is a switchman's nightmare. Although there were several fatalities among the public over the years, I have never read of an NE/SN employee getting electrocuted. No wonder government authorities went after the SNRY (and the CCT) following WWII, leading to most of the North End being dieselized.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Friends,
Today's photo shows the?Northern Electric's East Nicolaus substation. This concrete building was completed in 1908. In the photo there are no lines connected to the insulator banks, plus there is what looks like construction debris all over the place. This was probably taken sometime in 1908, though it was published in the Electric Railway Journal in 1909. Also note the unloading dock between the track and the building.
Originally this substation had two 400 KW 600 volt Westinghouse generators, each driven?by 3-phase 2200 volt induction motors. Control panels were by General Electric. In the distance you can see two cottages built in the Northern Electric style, possibly for the employees who monitored the equipment. All north end substations were converted to automatic operation by 1929.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ?
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Re: Northern Electric Depots
Bill,
A long shot, yes, though good call. But why?
I noticed something interesting in examining the maps and timetables in Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN. The map on page [5] shows the Northern Electric as it was prior to 1913 (the Colusa Branch, which opened on 13 June 1913 is shown as "proposed"). According to NE Timetable 22 of 1910, Tierra Buena (44.10 miles from Chico) is the next station north of Harter, which is on the map,?but not in the TT. The station south of Live Oak shown on the map is Sunset (37.40). Maceta is not shown on the map, but is listed in the timetable at 35.94, nor is Bihlman at 36.42. So, I'm working south here, as the distances from Chico don't change (much) in the timetables, but after the merger the northbound distances are calculated from San Francisco instead of Sacramento (real mileposts would have helped!)
Now on the back cover we have a 1939 map, which corresponds with SNRY Timetable 20. Tierra Buena is not shown on the map, but listed at 44.23. O.K., .13 miles is 686 feet, possibly the shelter or just the platform was moved because of track changes when the Colusa branch was built. Bihlman, Maceta and Sunset are completely missing from the TT, but Bihlman is shown on the map. The shelter was still standing at Bihlman, because Will Whittaker photographed it on 4 August 1940, though perhaps it was no longer in use.
I suspect that whether these stops were listed in the timetable or not didn't matter much. They probably were still available if someone wanted to pull the semaphore down. Several of these were provided for the convenience of ranch owners and their employees (family-owned Bihlman Ranch is still in business, or was just a few years ago when I did an internet search). These stops may have come and gone as needs changed. The problem is that conflicts between the maps and the timetables leave a lot of uncertainty for historians. So what else is new in the history biz?
By the way, who reset the semaphore at flag stops? I presume the conductor had to climb off the train to reset the signal. I can almost hear the grousing now.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
Wild shot in the dark... Tierra? Buena?
For the shelter.
~Bill?
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Re: Northern Electric Depots
Wild shot in the dark... Tierra? Buena?
For the shelter.
~Bill?
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Friends,
Today I have two photos of unidentified Northern Electric depots from the Electric Railway Journal.
The first is a typical open waiting shed. The design is similar to the shed at Bilman (though it?definitely?NOT Bilman). Unfortunately, the signboard on the eave cannot be read. The brick foundation and lower walls were also done in river rock for at least one shelter, and others like Fremont on the Woodland Branch were done in wood and shingles. In short, the Northern Electric "standard" design was anything but standard.
The second station is an oddity. It is of substantial size, indicating an agent might have been assigned, but the passenger-operated semaphore indicates a flag stop. No location was given with the photo. Any thoughts?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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More old Northern Electric Photos
Friends,
Today's offering is a shot of motor 1000 (could just as easily be 1001) and a pile driver photographed near Marysville in 1907. At least that is what Demoro said on page 26 of his book. My image came from the Electric Railway Journal,?and has no information.?
In addition, I offer what is essentially the NE builder's photo of 1000, probably taken at Chico in 1906. An original of this photo was leant to me for copying by Mrs. Bert Pingree in 1980. Both Bert and his dad were long-term NE/SN employees, and the dad is somewhere among these fellows.
The bodies for NE motors 1000 and 1001 were built at the Diamond Match plant, and electrical gear was applied by the NE shops. If these motors look similar to PE 1599 and 1600, it is no accident. NE General Manager A.D. Schindler was a former PE man, and possibly brought the plans north with him, along with his passion for PE's famous pneumatic trolley poles (which didn't last long on the NE). NE 1000 was retired in 1923. Its body was sold to the Petaluma & Santa Rosa, which restored it to service. NE 1001 was wrecked in 1909, and not repaired. Its electrical gear was used to motorize combine 130.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Friends,
Attached is a photo of the Woodland depot I've never seen before, from Street Railway Review and taken around 1912. If so, the depot was brand new, as that was the year it was built.
Originally the Woodland Branch was the Sacramento & Woodland Railway, a Northern Electric subsidiary. In the early days, trains did not terminate in Sacramento, but continued on to Woodland, which was considered the end of the mainline. This ended in 1914, and from then on the branch was just that, a branch, with its own timetable, and mainline trains ended their?runs in Sacramento.
The branch was supposed to have continued to tidewater as the Vallejo & Northern, but only the V&N's middle section that would become the SN Fairfield-Suisun Branch was built. The V&N was a casualty of the NE's bankruptcy.
My second picture is how the station looked in the mid-1960s. By then only the baggage/express section remained. It was torn down a few years later, only to be replaced by a replica of the whole building which is in use for commercial space. The photo is by my late father, Glenn Groff.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Re: Tower Bridge and Front Street
Justin,
I'm a bit fuzzy on this, but I believe the River Lines terminal was taken down in the 1960s. By then it was a sagging eyesore. The passenger boats ended service in 1940. I suspect that River Lines also operated freight packets or tugs and barges into at least the 1950s.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 7:10?AM Justin Rowe via <justingrowe= [email protected]> wrote:
After getting everything open it was all great material! Sometime it would be interesting to see when that building was taken down, before or after 1952 which is a good year to have the ferry as well as a variety of SN models and vehicles. I sent pictures to family with all those trucks. Thanks so much.? On Monday, April 24, 2023, 5:03 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Jim,
I have some views of motors at the 2nd & M service facility from Will Whittaker and Ken Jenkins, but no shots of the facility itself. I agree it has not been well documented, or at least the documentation has not been generally available. Add to this, the Sanborn maps do not show the tracks of electric railroads after about 1910, even if they were significant freight carriers. The buildings might be on some maps, but the?facility is something I have never researched. [Note to self (and to this group), see what is available among the Library of Congress online Sanborn maps.]
The best information on SN-served industries is found in Western Pacific Circular 167E, but that covers only 1957 or so. Information on the 40th & Shafter yard is missing, so means the document was isssued/updated?after February 28, 1957 when the SN's?Oakland line was abandoned. The only original known to me is in the CSRM library. I paid them to make me a copy (which I had locally bound), but there have been what I assume are pirated copies for sale by online vendors in the past couple of years. I have never seen earlier versions of this document.?Curiously, the CSRM example's cover sheet is scribbled "SN Yardmaster's".?
I don't think the WP or the SN ever issued "shippers' guides", as many other railroads did. If they did, I would love to see a copy. 167E was strictly an internal document.
According to the Circular, River Lines was served by a two-car spur which was jointly operated by the "WP-SN-SP". Technically this was an interchange, since the River Lines was a common carrier. Their passenger steamer service between Sacramento and San Francisco ended when US Highway 40 was completed in 1940, and the Delta King and Delta Queen were requisitioned by the Navy. I could not find any information online about River?Line's freight traffic, but by 1957, such traffic was probably in "terminal" decline due to truck competition. Perhaps in earlier years there was a longer spur or spurs. But I speculate, and that is usually a bad thing.
Curious factoid. Hal Wilumnder, steam aficionado and founder of the short-lived Camino, Cable & Northern excursion line, promoted building a river steamboat for freight traffic in the 1970s. He thought (probably optimistically) that there was still a need for such service on the upper Sacramento River. AFAIK, nothing came of this project, beyond an article in one of the Sacramento newspapers. ?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 6:27?PM James Dolan < dolan@...> wrote: Hi Garth,
Thanks for posting these interesting photos as well as the link to a number of other cool shots of the waterfront (e.g., the attached showing the full length of the River Lines facility [I brightened it up a bit in Photoshop]). From the lack of overhead, it appears that almost all of the visible warehouses south of the bridge were served only by SP. I've long been interested in what customers SN served in Sacramento, but information is surprisingly difficult to come by, as have been details of the SN engine facility at 2nd & M Streets.
Neat stuff. Thanks again.
Cheers,
James
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Re: Tower Bridge and Front Street
Jim,
I played around a bit with the contrast and luminance sharpening on the River Lines photo, and concluded that there were indeed more than two spots here. At the middle left you can see two boxcars, then a bit farther to the left is one more, possibly two parked side-by-side. Whether there are two boxcars, or something else in shadow, it is apparent from the distance out from the building that there were two parallel tracks here, each long enough for at least four 40' cars. Upon close examination, you can actually see the rails to the outer track next to the two boxcars closer to the photo's center.?
At one time, parallel loading/unloading tracks like this were common in large freight terminals, and in smaller locations that had a lot of traffic and not much building front. Steel "bridge plates" were put between the cars on the inner and outer tracks, and hand trucks (or early forklifts) were pushed through the inner boxcar or refrigerator car to load or unload the outer car.
I don't see any overhead wires close to the building, so maybe a WP switcher off the R-Street line handled the final moves to River Lines.
Other interesting details show up here, including what might be "crunch time" at the River Lines taxi stand. There is a man standing by the locomotive tender. I wonder if he is looking to see if there is clearance with that car parked so close to the tracks. On the other end of the row there is a sedan parked on the SN track. The two cars with light bodies and dark roofs are surely taxis,?possibly Yellow Cabs. There is another car with a light colored stripe which is probably also a taxi, and the car beyond it which is in peril from the tender has some sort of writing on the door, again suggesting a taxi.
Note the long sign with "The River Lines for San Francisco, 6:30 P.M., Palatial Steamers Delta King and Delta Queen." So these two were night boats, really floating hotels. Certainly not as fast as an SP or SN train, but they could deliver a refreshed and well fed businessman right into San Francisco the next morning without the bother of detraining at the Oakland Mole for a rather plebeian?ferry crossing on one of the SP's boats. We can surmise that the two river steamers ran from each end every night in opposite directions. Wonder what the River Lines used for a substitute when the boats had to go into the shipyard for their annual Coast Guard inspection, or when they (horror of horrors) broke down?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ???
On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 6:27?PM James Dolan < dolan@...> wrote: Hi Garth,
Thanks for posting these interesting photos as well as the link to a number of other cool shots of the waterfront (e.g., the attached showing the full length of the River Lines facility [I brightened it up a bit in Photoshop]). From the lack of overhead, it appears that almost all of the visible warehouses south of the bridge were served only by SP. I've long been interested in what customers SN served in Sacramento, but information is surprisingly difficult to come by, as have been details of the SN engine facility at 2nd & M Streets.
Neat stuff. Thanks again.
Cheers,
James
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Re: Tower Bridge and Front Street
After getting everything open it was all great material! Sometime it would be interesting to see when that building was taken down, before or after 1952 which is a good year to have the ferry as well as a variety of SN models and vehicles. I sent pictures to family with all those trucks. Thanks so much.?
On Monday, April 24, 2023, 5:03 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Jim,
I have some views of motors at the 2nd & M service facility from Will Whittaker and Ken Jenkins, but no shots of the facility itself. I agree it has not been well documented, or at least the documentation has not been generally available. Add to this, the Sanborn maps do not show the tracks of electric railroads after about 1910, even if they were significant freight carriers. The buildings might be on some maps, but the?facility is something I have never researched. [Note to self (and to this group), see what is available among the Library of Congress online Sanborn maps.]
The best information on SN-served industries is found in Western Pacific Circular 167E, but that covers only 1957 or so. Information on the 40th & Shafter yard is missing, so means the document was isssued/updated?after February 28, 1957 when the SN's?Oakland line was abandoned. The only original known to me is in the CSRM library. I paid them to make me a copy (which I had locally bound), but there have been what I assume are pirated copies for sale by online vendors in the past couple of years. I have never seen earlier versions of this document.?Curiously, the CSRM example's cover sheet is scribbled "SN Yardmaster's".?
I don't think the WP or the SN ever issued "shippers' guides", as many other railroads did. If they did, I would love to see a copy. 167E was strictly an internal document.
According to the Circular, River Lines was served by a two-car spur which was jointly operated by the "WP-SN-SP". Technically this was an interchange, since the River Lines was a common carrier. Their passenger steamer service between Sacramento and San Francisco ended when US Highway 40 was completed in 1940, and the Delta King and Delta Queen were requisitioned by the Navy. I could not find any information online about River?Line's freight traffic, but by 1957, such traffic was probably in "terminal" decline due to truck competition. Perhaps in earlier years there was a longer spur or spurs. But I speculate, and that is usually a bad thing.
Curious factoid. Hal Wilumnder, steam aficionado and founder of the short-lived Camino, Cable & Northern excursion line, promoted building a river steamboat for freight traffic in the 1970s. He thought (probably optimistically) that there was still a need for such service on the upper Sacramento River. AFAIK, nothing came of this project, beyond an article in one of the Sacramento newspapers. ?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 6:27?PM James Dolan < dolan@...> wrote: Hi Garth,
Thanks for posting these interesting photos as well as the link to a number of other cool shots of the waterfront (e.g., the attached showing the full length of the River Lines facility [I brightened it up a bit in Photoshop]). From the lack of overhead, it appears that almost all of the visible warehouses south of the bridge were served only by SP. I've long been interested in what customers SN served in Sacramento, but information is surprisingly difficult to come by, as have been details of the SN engine facility at 2nd & M Streets.
Neat stuff. Thanks again.
Cheers,
James
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Re: Tower Bridge and Front Street
Jim,
I have some views of motors at the 2nd & M service facility from Will Whittaker and Ken Jenkins, but no shots of the facility itself. I agree it has not been well documented, or at least the documentation has not been generally available. Add to this, the Sanborn maps do not show the tracks of electric railroads after about 1910, even if they were significant freight carriers. The buildings might be on some maps, but the?facility is something I have never researched. [Note to self (and to this group), see what is available among the Library of Congress online Sanborn maps.]
The best information on SN-served industries is found in Western Pacific Circular 167E, but that covers only 1957 or so. Information on the 40th & Shafter yard is missing, so means the document was isssued/updated?after February 28, 1957 when the SN's?Oakland line was abandoned. The only original known to me is in the CSRM library. I paid them to make me a copy (which I had locally bound), but there have been what I assume are pirated copies for sale by online vendors in the past couple of years. I have never seen earlier versions of this document.?Curiously, the CSRM example's cover sheet is scribbled "SN Yardmaster's".?
I don't think the WP or the SN ever issued "shippers' guides", as many other railroads did. If they did, I would love to see a copy. 167E was strictly an internal document.
According to the Circular, River Lines was served by a two-car spur which was jointly operated by the "WP-SN-SP". Technically this was an interchange, since the River Lines was a common carrier. Their passenger steamer service between Sacramento and San Francisco ended when US Highway 40 was completed in 1940, and the Delta King and Delta Queen were requisitioned by the Navy. I could not find any information online about River?Line's freight traffic, but by 1957, such traffic was probably in "terminal" decline due to truck competition. Perhaps in earlier years there was a longer spur or spurs. But I speculate, and that is usually a bad thing.
Curious factoid. Hal Wilumnder, steam aficionado and founder of the short-lived Camino, Cable & Northern excursion line, promoted building a river steamboat for freight traffic in the 1970s. He thought (probably optimistically) that there was still a need for such service on the upper Sacramento River. AFAIK, nothing came of this project, beyond an article in one of the Sacramento newspapers. ?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 6:27?PM James Dolan < dolan@...> wrote: Hi Garth,
Thanks for posting these interesting photos as well as the link to a number of other cool shots of the waterfront (e.g., the attached showing the full length of the River Lines facility [I brightened it up a bit in Photoshop]). From the lack of overhead, it appears that almost all of the visible warehouses south of the bridge were served only by SP. I've long been interested in what customers SN served in Sacramento, but information is surprisingly difficult to come by, as have been details of the SN engine facility at 2nd & M Streets.
Neat stuff. Thanks again.
Cheers,
James
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Re: Tower Bridge and Front Street
Hi Garth,
Thanks for posting these interesting photos as well as the link to a number of other cool shots of the waterfront (e.g., the attached showing the full length of the River Lines facility [I brightened it up a bit in Photoshop]). From the lack of overhead, it appears that almost all of the visible warehouses south of the bridge were served only by SP. I've long been interested in what customers SN served in Sacramento, but information is surprisingly difficult to come by, as have been details of the SN engine facility at 2nd & M Streets.
Neat stuff. Thanks again.
Cheers,
James
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Re: Tower Bridge and Front Street
Wow. It¡¯s too bad this wasn¡¯t a PDF or something. ?for some reason I couldn¡¯t open the picture of the track plan.
On Sunday, April 23, 2023, 5:02 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Good friends,
Attached is a drawing I found online yesterday showing how the track was arranged at the Tower Bridge in Sacramento. This appears to be a proposal, so some details may be missing, but it is a pretty good guide to the Front Street Crossing and the River Lines terminal building. I do think the width of the streets is rather exaggerated. The building on the right edge is the Crane plumbing warehouse, now the Old Town parking garage.
I also found a photo of the River Lines building online. The URL ?is ?. There are several interesting Sacramento industrial buildings linked here, and the photos are worth exploring for details.
In addition, I offer two photos from my negative collection. The first is a Will Whittaker view of SN 606 on a 1939 excursion at the same location. The second is an undated Ken Jenkins view of 651 in front of the River Lines warehouse. Sorry for the focus. Some of Ken's photos were taken with a cheap camera that had an astigmatic lens.
More goodies to follow soon.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ???
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Tower Bridge and Front Street
Good friends,
Attached is a drawing I found online yesterday showing how the track was arranged at the Tower Bridge in Sacramento. This appears to be a proposal, so some details may be missing, but it is a pretty good guide to the Front Street Crossing and the River Lines terminal building. I do think the width of the streets is rather exaggerated. The building on the right edge is the Crane plumbing warehouse, now the Old Town parking garage.
I also found a photo of the River Lines building online. The URL ?is ?. There are several interesting Sacramento industrial buildings linked here, and the photos are worth exploring for details.
In addition, I offer two photos from my negative collection. The first is a Will Whittaker view of SN 606 on a 1939 excursion at the same location. The second is an undated Ken Jenkins view of 651 in front of the River Lines warehouse. Sorry for the focus. Some of Ken's photos were taken with a cheap camera that had an astigmatic lens.
More goodies to follow soon.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ???
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