Re: 402 head/shower drains
Tony,?
?
The sink itself is well above the waterline while at rest. On a hard port tack, you may take some water into the sink. As for the shower, I believe the strainer and shower pump act as a one-way valve to keep water from backfilling the shower.?
Hope that answers your question. Do you have a 402? You might want to check your layout.?
Best,
Jordan
?
S402-047
formerly S36-087
Lake Michigan
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Re: Keel Boat Replacement
Here is some more information
?
?
Tim R
38MKII in refit
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Re: Keel Boat Replacement
Hi Michael,
?
Not always.
?
Evidence of hour glassing can appear as leaking through the nut area as the seal has been compromised.
Removing the nut or washer and digging out the sealant can also give you enough exposure to see if it is there.? (not always)
?
This could be a long drawn out answer as there are many indicators.
?
The 38 MKII has 9 bolts I recall and they used an epoxy to attach the hull to the keel.
Chances of failure are extremely low in my opinion-? Design factors are 5x minimum.
?
My boat is 33 years old and there is evidence of stray voltage corrosion (on one bolt) - I am getting my j-bolts replaced (all of them)
so I can hand this boat off to a future generation (once I am done) knowing it is a safe as it was designed to be.
?
I have had suggestions to drill down and remove old J bolt and replace with stainless stud - I have considered this option but it would be a temporary one for me.
I have made the decision to replace them all.
?
Cost is approximately CAD $10,000 for MARS work + yard work/freight etc.
?
I have budgeted CAD $20K (USD $14,000) for the job.? (for those who want an idea of cost)
?
Tim R
38MKII in refit.
?
?
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Re: Keel Boat Replacement
If only one keel bolt needs replacing it is possible to add another keelbolt next to it without dropping the keel. A hole is drilled down into the keel from the bilge and another hole is drilled horizontally to intercept the vertical hole. Threaded rod is then used to make a keel bolt with a nut and washer on the bottom (in the horizontal hole) and nut washer on the bilge side of the rod. The horizontal hole is then filled with epoxy.
Dave Second Star S362 #113 Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On Mar 21, 2025, at 1:12?PM, Michael Sterling via groups.io <sterling1mster@...> wrote:
Tim, this kind of damage would not br obvious without dropping the keel, am I correct?
Mike
s/v Ladylike?
88 38' MK II Hi Manny, ? In many cases, it is very obvious. ? If you have serious corrosion present - a visual inspection will clearly identify any severe bolt/nut corrosion issues. If a keel has mysterious leaking through the keel bolts - then the option is to drop the keel to inspect the bolts to determine whether or not the bolts are compromised.? They will show signs of hour glassing. ? Nut corrosion is common and can be corrected by removing the nuts and replacing with new nuts and washers.? This provides an opportunity to see more of the bolts and inspect for any hour glassing present. ? Stray voltage at a marina can be a real risk - If all looks good now, it's not a bad idea to add a galvanic isolator to the boat to help ensure some protection against stray voltage. ? Others may have more input on this. ? I added an example I found on line as an example of hour glassing. ? Tim R 38MKII in refit
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Re: Keel Boat Replacement
Tim, this kind of damage would not br obvious without dropping the keel, am I correct?
Mike
s/v Ladylike
88 38' MK II
Hi Manny,
?
In many cases, it is very obvious.
?
If you have serious corrosion present - a visual inspection will clearly identify any severe bolt/nut corrosion issues.
If a keel has mysterious leaking through the keel bolts - then the option is to drop the keel to inspect the bolts to determine whether or not the bolts are compromised.? They will show signs of hour glassing.
?
Nut corrosion is common and can be corrected by removing the nuts and replacing with new nuts and washers.? This provides an opportunity to see more of the bolts and inspect for any hour glassing present.
?
Stray voltage at a marina can be a real risk - If all looks good now, it's not a bad idea to add a galvanic isolator to the boat to help ensure some protection against stray voltage.
?
Others may have more input on this.
?
I added an example I found on line as an example of hour glassing.
?
Tim R
38MKII in refit
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Re: Keel Boat Replacement
Hi Manny,
?
In many cases, it is very obvious.
?
If you have serious corrosion present - a visual inspection will clearly identify any severe bolt/nut corrosion issues.
If a keel has mysterious leaking through the keel bolts - then the option is to drop the keel to inspect the bolts to determine whether or not the bolts are compromised.? They will show signs of hour glassing.
?
Nut corrosion is common and can be corrected by removing the nuts and replacing with new nuts and washers.? This provides an opportunity to see more of the bolts and inspect for any hour glassing present.
?
Stray voltage at a marina can be a real risk - If all looks good now, it's not a bad idea to add a galvanic isolator to the boat to help ensure some protection against stray voltage.
?
Others may have more input on this.
?
I added an example I found on line as an example of hour glassing.
?
Tim R
38MKII in refit
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Thanks! I'll keep that option in my
back pocket. I had thought that I could substitute a 1-1/2" sheave
from Schaefer or Ronstan, but from the photos, the organizer
appears to have bushings between the bolt and the sheave, while
the potential replacements are drilled at 7/16" for the bolt. They
were probably trying to keep the sheave from binding... which is
exactly what two of them are doing.
On 3/21/2025 9:54 AM, Allan via
groups.io wrote:
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Hi Dan
?
I replaced all the sheaves in my deck organizers ?a few years
ago with sheaves from Zephyrwerks, they are far superior but
expensive. Google them and you¡¯ll find their website.
?
Allan
Dagny
S402-59
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Re: 402 head/shower drains
I was pretty sure that was the case, at
least for Hull #70, but planned to inspect just because there was
a question.? Glad to check that item off the list.
On 3/21/2025 10:44 AM, Jordan via
groups.io wrote:
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I did some digging into this and hopefully have some closure
for the topic. Hull #004 and #047 both T into a smaller hose
that goes into the pump and then overboard via the sink thru
hull. The junction can be found if you remove the bottom stair
tread and do some digging. I can¡¯t speak for everyone¡¯s boat,
but these are both the same.?
hope that helps.?
have a great weekend everyone.?
jordan?
s402-047
formerly s36-087
?
lake michigan?
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Re: Replacing 402 hot water heater
Cool.?
Impacts resale.?
Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.
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On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:01?AM, Jim Gregory via groups.io <jgregor1.jg@...> wrote:
? 5.3 is enough for two people that are cruising. It's always good to be conservative with fresh water use on a boat. I got by nicely with heaters of that capacity for years. My 12 gallon tank is an extravagance that I would not replace if needed. 5-6 gallon is fine.
--
Jim Gregory
Sabre 402 #32
Milford CT
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Re: 402 head/shower drains
I may misunderstand. The description sounded like it tied into the thru hull.?
Would need a loop to prevent leaking backing into bilge wouldn¡¯t it ??
Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.
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On Mar 21, 2025, at 8:52?AM, Jordan via groups.io <jordan.permoda@...> wrote:
? Tony,?
I¡¯m not sure I understand your question. If the shower drain were to leak, it would go to the bilge and be limited to how long the shower is running¡
is that what you mean?
?
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Re: Replacing 402 hot water heater
5.3 is enough for two people that are cruising. It's always good to be conservative with fresh water use on a boat. I got by nicely with heaters of that capacity for years. My 12 gallon tank is an extravagance that I would not replace if needed. 5-6 gallon is fine.
--
Jim Gregory
Sabre 402 #32
Milford CT
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Re: Keel Boat Replacement
Hi All,
How have you determine when it is time to replace the keel bolts?
Thanks, Manny Moreno SV Blue Wren - 34MkII
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Re: 402 head/shower drains
Tony,?
I¡¯m not sure I understand your question. If the shower drain were to leak, it would go to the bilge and be limited to how long the shower is running¡
is that what you mean?
?
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Thanks Jordan I'll pass my frame is good? Mike
Mike,?
?
the Bimini is blue. But I would say that the value is really in the framework, and since the fabric was made for the framework, it likely would only work with the framework.?
let me know if you¡¯d be interested. I just don¡¯t want to see it go to a scrap yard if it can be used.?
cheers.
Jordan
S402-047
?
?
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Re: 402 head/shower drains
? So a leak in the shower drain can sink the boat ?
Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.
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On Mar 21, 2025, at 7:44?AM, Jordan via groups.io <jordan.permoda@...> wrote:
? I did some digging into this and hopefully have some closure for the topic. Hull #004 and #047 both T into a smaller hose that goes into the pump and then overboard via the sink thru hull. The junction can be found if you remove the bottom stair tread and do some digging. I can¡¯t speak for everyone¡¯s boat, but these are both the same.?
hope that helps.?
have a great weekend everyone.?
jordan?
s402-047
formerly s36-087
?
lake michigan?
|
Re: 402 head/shower drains
I did some digging into this and hopefully have some closure for the topic. Hull #004 and #047 both T into a smaller hose that goes into the pump and then overboard via the sink thru hull. The junction can be found if you remove the bottom stair tread and do some digging. I can¡¯t speak for everyone¡¯s boat, but these are both the same.?
hope that helps.?
have a great weekend everyone.?
jordan?
s402-047
formerly s36-087
?
lake michigan?
|
Mike,?
?
the Bimini is blue. But I would say that the value is really in the framework, and since the fabric was made for the framework, it likely would only work with the framework.?
let me know if you¡¯d be interested. I just don¡¯t want to see it go to a scrap yard if it can be used.?
cheers.
Jordan
S402-047
?
?
|
Re: Keel Boat Replacement
Hi Allison,
?
MARS is an hour from me so its the best alternative that I have at the moment.
I am not replacing the keel, just the bolts.? I will ship the keel to them and they will replace them by gouging out the original J-Bolts and replacing with new.
?
I have spoken with Bill a few times to discuss the process.? I have a few key people locally that I have worked with on previous refits and trust them to help with the process.
?
Tim R
38MKII in refit
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Re: Dimensions for 1990 38 mkll
Terry,
?
If you have 20 feet, you have plenty of room.
Maximum road height clearance is 17.9" and I had the boat transported from MD.
I had measured it prior and it was under 12'.
?
Tim R
38MKII in refit
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Re: Dimensions for 1990 38 mkll
Terry measure the binnacle and wheel as well. ?That is usually the highest spot and what we take down for shipping. ?With 20¡± you should be fine. You might want to check with Glen and ask if he has shipping heights for your boat.
Allison LehmanSwiftsure Yachtsallison@...Cell: 510.912.5800Fax: 510.860.4640
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On Mar 21, 2025, at 6:58?AM, Terry via groups.io <webonomist@...> wrote:
Thanks Tim,
?
I think the stantions might be the highest point. I would rather not have to remove them.
The barn door height is 20ft. My gut feel is that we should have plenty of room even with the hydraulic lift.
?
Vintage
S38 mkll
Great Lakes
?
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
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Jordan
Tim Rivard
