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On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 2:00 PM, Roy via

<node999=[email protected]> wrote:

For reasons unknown, the plots I embedded in my previous message are degraded on the U106 message board. If anyone would like to receive the email directly or can offer a suggestion as to how to avoid such degradation, please get in touch. Cheers, Roy

On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 at 22:07, Jay Blue <node999@...> wrote:

Hi Iain and friends, This updated version of your phylogeography study is a considerable advance and raises interesting questions, most notably the issue of whether CWC is a Baden culture mediated migration through Pannonia via the Danube, or the result of a march across the North European Plain incorporating elements of the preceding Funnel Beaker and Globular Amphora cultures. I thought it would be interesting to explore the relationship of PNL001 to other DNA samples to determine the degree of common admixture or shared segments with representatives of other roughly contemporary populations. I will let the plots do most of the talking.

I would like to have explored PNL001's relationships, but alas, the MTA database does not have a profile for PNL001, so I have resorted to using a possibly related sample labelled PNL002, which was excavated from the same site. The PCA chart provided with the sample is too cluttered to be of much use, unfortunately. Instead we will refer to a plot of the PCA matches on a map.

The plot does not afford much detail. On the other hand, the samples on an admixture plot are fully identified. Here is a plot of admixture matches to PNL002 dating from 5000 to 3000 BC.

There is a cluster of admixture matches along the Dnieper which might be identified as pre-Maykop or even within the Globular Amphora horizon. THe plot shows definite affinities to Baltic populations, and a strong signal from potentially Funnel Beaker demographics in Jutland.

In the subsequent 1500 years the admixture matches cluster strongly in Bohemia and the Harz region (Leubingen and Quedlingen), exhibting a significant Unetiice continuity. Only two matches occur in Eurasia, one of them in a Fatyanovo context.

Actual segment matches are too sparse to afford any meaningful historical insights.

If anything is to be deduced from the admixture plots for this proxy sample it is probably that the sequence of migrations which culminated in the community of which L151 was a member adopted a route into Europe via the North European Plain, as it carried with it genetic material it had acquired through associations with cultures in central Eurasia and the Baltic that may have been mediated through contact with Globular Amphora groups, and others as well, including Funnel Beaker populations.

The community where PNL001 and PNL002 were excavated lies along the Elbe in Bohemia, which in Czech is "Labe": hence, Plotiste nad Labem (PNL). It is very probable that the CWG settlers bearing L151 reached Bohemia by following the Elbe from what is now part of Germany. The study of rivernames as clues to prehistoric migration was pioneered by the linguist Hans Krahe. A paper recently appeared revising Krahe's etymologies of a few rivers, among them the Elbe. The new etymology traces the name to a proto-Germanic, and possibly proto-Indoeuropean word for "white" or "the white one". While there are no notable rapids on the Elbe, the river does pass through the Ore Mountains on the north side of Bohemia, which would certainly have been snow covered in winter. If the name is of such great antiquity, it may well have been coined by the first group of Indo-European speaking Corded Ware settlers to have reached Bohemia.

Cheers, Roy

Hi Iain and friends, This updated version of your phylogeography study is a considerable advance and raises interesting questions, most notably the issue of whether CWC is a Baden culture mediated migration through Pannonia via the Danube, or the result of a march across the North European Plain incorporating elements of the preceding Funnel Beaker and Globular Amphora cultures. I thought it would be interesting to explore the relationship of PNL001 to other DNA samples to determine the degree of common admixture or shared segments with representatives of other roughly contemporary populations. I will let the plots do most of the talking.

I would like to have explored PNL001's relationships, but alas, the MTA database does not have a profile for PNL001, so I have resorted to using a possibly related sample labelled PNL002, which was excavated from the same site. The PCA chart provided with the sample is too cluttered to be of much use, unfortunately. Instead we will refer to a plot of the PCA matches on a map.

The plot does not afford much detail. On the other hand, the samples on an admixture plot are fully identified. Here is a plot of admixture matches to PNL002 dating from 5000 to 3000 BC.

There is a cluster of admixture matches along the Dnieper which might be identified as pre-Maykop or even within the Globular Amphora horizon. THe plot shows definite affinities to Baltic populations, and a strong signal from potentially Funnel Beaker demographics in Jutland.

In the subsequent 1500 years the admixture matches cluster strongly in Bohemia and the Harz region (Leubingen and Quedlingen), exhibting a significant Unetiice continuity. Only two matches occur in Eurasia, one of them in a Fatyanovo context.

Actual segment matches are too sparse to afford any meaningful historical insights.

If anything is to be deduced from the admixture plots for this proxy sample it is probably that the sequence of migrations which culminated in the community of which L151 was a member adopted a route into Europe via the North European Plain, as it carried with it genetic material it had acquired through associations with cultures in central Eurasia and the Baltic that may have been mediated through contact with Globular Amphora groups, and others as well, including Funnel Beaker populations.

The community where PNL001 and PNL002 were excavated lies along the Elbe in Bohemia, which in Czech is "Labe": hence, Plotiste nad Labem (PNL). It is very probable that the CWG settlers bearing L151 reached Bohemia by following the Elbe from what is now part of Germany. The study of rivernames as clues to prehistoric migration was pioneered by the linguist Hans Krahe. A paper recently appeared revising Krahe's etymologies of a few rivers, among them the Elbe. The new etymology traces the name to a proto-Germanic, and possibly proto-Indoeuropean word for "white" or "the white one". While there are no notable rapids on the Elbe, the river does pass through the Ore Mountains on the north side of Bohemia, which would certainly have been snow covered in winter. If the name is of such great antiquity, it may well have been coined by the first group of Indo-European speaking Corded Ware settlers to have reached Bohemia.

Cheers, Roy

Oh dear.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, 18:16 Roy via , <node999=[email protected]> wrote:

Even more impressive that a machine composed it.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 at 11:21, Piero Sinclair via <pierosinclair=[email protected]> wrote:

Cripes! Very impressive.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, 15:08 Roy via , <node999=[email protected]> wrote:

---

The Ancestral Quest: A Genealogist's Tale

(To the tune of "The Ballad of Gilligan's Isle")

Verses:

Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
Of seekers bold and sly,
Who swabbed their cheeks with a hopeful grin,
And mailed their genes to fly.

They dreamed of kings and castles grand,
A noble, royal line,
But the story told by their DNA
Was anything but divine.

A Viking? A Celt? A samurai bold?
Nope—just a farmer’s son,
Who tilled the dirt and fed the sheep,
'Neath a cloud-blocked Irish sun.

Then, lo! A cousin comes into view,
A match so strong, it gleams!
But all they want is your family tree,
For their migration schemes.

Oh, whispers rise of scandals deep,
Of bastards, shame, and lies,
The knight you swore to hold in pride
Was a smith in low disguise.

The triumphs sweet, the pitfalls wild,
As history’s veil you peel,
The maze of lives and names unfolds,
Your tangled truth revealed!

---

Refrain:

Oh, mighty Y, it leads the way,
The patriarch’s genetic sway,
But one mutation breaks the chain,
And leaves your dreams in vain.

And mitochondria sings its song,
Of mothers’ lines so long,
But Eve’s refrain is vague at best,
And haplogroups can’t rest.

Then autosomal joins the show,
Its threads in chaos grow,
A teaspoon here, a smidgeon there,
To weave your tale of woe.

So mix your genes and test your code,
A quest both high and low,
For though it mocks, the truth still calls,
To find what you don’t know!

---

Closing Verse:

Still onward march, you seekers brave,
Through records worn and frayed,
The magic’s not in what you find,
But in the hunt replayed.

So raise your vial, your spit, your dream,
Your tangled roots entwine,
For though it mocks, it lifts your soul,
To chase your unknown line!

---

Even more impressive that a machine composed it.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 at 11:21, Piero Sinclair via <pierosinclair=[email protected]> wrote:

Cripes! Very impressive.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, 15:08 Roy via , <node999=[email protected]> wrote:

---

The Ancestral Quest: A Genealogist's Tale

(To the tune of "The Ballad of Gilligan's Isle")

Verses:

Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
Of seekers bold and sly,
Who swabbed their cheeks with a hopeful grin,
And mailed their genes to fly.

They dreamed of kings and castles grand,
A noble, royal line,
But the story told by their DNA
Was anything but divine.

A Viking? A Celt? A samurai bold?
Nope—just a farmer’s son,
Who tilled the dirt and fed the sheep,
'Neath a cloud-blocked Irish sun.

Then, lo! A cousin comes into view,
A match so strong, it gleams!
But all they want is your family tree,
For their migration schemes.

Oh, whispers rise of scandals deep,
Of bastards, shame, and lies,
The knight you swore to hold in pride
Was a smith in low disguise.

The triumphs sweet, the pitfalls wild,
As history’s veil you peel,
The maze of lives and names unfolds,
Your tangled truth revealed!

---

Refrain:

Oh, mighty Y, it leads the way,
The patriarch’s genetic sway,
But one mutation breaks the chain,
And leaves your dreams in vain.

And mitochondria sings its song,
Of mothers’ lines so long,
But Eve’s refrain is vague at best,
And haplogroups can’t rest.

Then autosomal joins the show,
Its threads in chaos grow,
A teaspoon here, a smidgeon there,
To weave your tale of woe.

So mix your genes and test your code,
A quest both high and low,
For though it mocks, the truth still calls,
To find what you don’t know!

---

Closing Verse:

Still onward march, you seekers brave,
Through records worn and frayed,
The magic’s not in what you find,
But in the hunt replayed.

So raise your vial, your spit, your dream,
Your tangled roots entwine,
For though it mocks, it lifts your soul,
To chase your unknown line!

---

Cripes! Very impressive.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, 15:08 Roy via , <node999=[email protected]> wrote:

---

The Ancestral Quest: A Genealogist's Tale

(To the tune of "The Ballad of Gilligan's Isle")

Verses:

Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
Of seekers bold and sly,
Who swabbed their cheeks with a hopeful grin,
And mailed their genes to fly.

They dreamed of kings and castles grand,
A noble, royal line,
But the story told by their DNA
Was anything but divine.

A Viking? A Celt? A samurai bold?
Nope—just a farmer’s son,
Who tilled the dirt and fed the sheep,
'Neath a cloud-blocked Irish sun.

Then, lo! A cousin comes into view,
A match so strong, it gleams!
But all they want is your family tree,
For their migration schemes.

Oh, whispers rise of scandals deep,
Of bastards, shame, and lies,
The knight you swore to hold in pride
Was a smith in low disguise.

The triumphs sweet, the pitfalls wild,
As history’s veil you peel,
The maze of lives and names unfolds,
Your tangled truth revealed!

---

Refrain:

Oh, mighty Y, it leads the way,
The patriarch’s genetic sway,
But one mutation breaks the chain,
And leaves your dreams in vain.

And mitochondria sings its song,
Of mothers’ lines so long,
But Eve’s refrain is vague at best,
And haplogroups can’t rest.

Then autosomal joins the show,
Its threads in chaos grow,
A teaspoon here, a smidgeon there,
To weave your tale of woe.

So mix your genes and test your code,
A quest both high and low,
For though it mocks, the truth still calls,
To find what you don’t know!

---

Closing Verse:

Still onward march, you seekers brave,
Through records worn and frayed,
The magic’s not in what you find,
But in the hunt replayed.

So raise your vial, your spit, your dream,
Your tangled roots entwine,
For though it mocks, it lifts your soul,
To chase your unknown line!

---

Thank you Roy, great stuff!

I'm going to pass that along -
To whom does the credit belong?

Rob Jacobson


On 12/29/2024 10:07 AM, Roy via wrote:
> ------------------------------
> *The Ancestral Quest: A Genealogist's Tale*
>
> (*To the tune of "The Ballad of Gilligan's Isle"*)
>
> *Verses:*
>
> Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
> Of seekers bold and sly,
> Who swabbed their cheeks with a hopeful grin,
> And mailed their genes to fly.
>
> They dreamed of kings and castles grand,
> A noble, royal line,
> But the story told by their DNA
> Was anything but divine.
>
> A Viking? A Celt? A samurai bold?
> Nope—just a farmer’s son,
> Who tilled the dirt and fed the sheep,
> 'Neath a cloud-blocked Irish sun.
>
> Then, lo! A cousin comes into view,
> A match so strong, it gleams!
> But all they want is your family tree,
> For their migration schemes.
>
> Oh, whispers rise of scandals deep,
> Of bastards, shame, and lies,
> The knight you swore to hold in pride
> Was a smith in low disguise.
>
> The triumphs sweet, the pitfalls wild,
> As history’s veil you peel,
> The maze of lives and names unfolds,
> Your tangled truth revealed!
> ------------------------------
>
> *Refrain:*
>
> Oh, mighty Y, it leads the way,
> The patriarch’s genetic sway,
> But one mutation breaks the chain,
> And leaves your dreams in vain.
>
> And mitochondria sings its song,
> Of mothers’ lines so long,
> But Eve’s refrain is vague at best,
> And haplogroups can’t rest.
>
> Then autosomal joins the show,
> Its threads in chaos grow,
> A teaspoon here, a smidgeon there,
> To weave your tale of woe.
>
> So mix your genes and test your code,
> A quest both high and low,
> For though it mocks, the truth still calls,
> To find what you don’t know!
> ------------------------------
>
> *Closing Verse:*
>
> Still onward march, you seekers brave,
> Through records worn and frayed,
> The magic’s not in what you find,
> But in the hunt replayed.
>
> So raise your vial, your spit, your dream,
> Your tangled roots entwine,
> For though it mocks, it lifts your soul,
> To chase your unknown line!
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>

---

The Ancestral Quest: A Genealogist's Tale

(To the tune of "The Ballad of Gilligan's Isle")

Verses:

Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
Of seekers bold and sly,
Who swabbed their cheeks with a hopeful grin,
And mailed their genes to fly.

They dreamed of kings and castles grand,
A noble, royal line,
But the story told by their DNA
Was anything but divine.

A Viking? A Celt? A samurai bold?
Nope—just a farmer’s son,
Who tilled the dirt and fed the sheep,
'Neath a cloud-blocked Irish sun.

Then, lo! A cousin comes into view,
A match so strong, it gleams!
But all they want is your family tree,
For their migration schemes.

Oh, whispers rise of scandals deep,
Of bastards, shame, and lies,
The knight you swore to hold in pride
Was a smith in low disguise.

The triumphs sweet, the pitfalls wild,
As history’s veil you peel,
The maze of lives and names unfolds,
Your tangled truth revealed!

---

Refrain:

Oh, mighty Y, it leads the way,
The patriarch’s genetic sway,
But one mutation breaks the chain,
And leaves your dreams in vain.

And mitochondria sings its song,
Of mothers’ lines so long,
But Eve’s refrain is vague at best,
And haplogroups can’t rest.

Then autosomal joins the show,
Its threads in chaos grow,
A teaspoon here, a smidgeon there,
To weave your tale of woe.

So mix your genes and test your code,
A quest both high and low,
For though it mocks, the truth still calls,
To find what you don’t know!

---

Closing Verse:

Still onward march, you seekers brave,
Through records worn and frayed,
The magic’s not in what you find,
But in the hunt replayed.

So raise your vial, your spit, your dream,
Your tangled roots entwine,
For though it mocks, it lifts your soul,
To chase your unknown line!

---

---

The Ancestral Quest: A Genealogist's Tale

(To the tune of "The Ballad of Gilligan's Isle")

Verses:

Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
Of seekers bold and sly,
Who swabbed their cheeks with a hopeful grin,
And mailed their genes to fly.

They dreamed of kings and castles grand,
A noble, royal line,
But the story told by their DNA
Was anything but divine.

A Viking? A Celt? A samurai bold?
Nope—just a farmer’s son,
Who tilled the dirt and fed the sheep,
'Neath a cloud-blocked Irish sun.

Then, lo! A cousin comes into view,
A match so strong, it gleams!
But all they want is your family tree,
For their migration schemes.

Oh, whispers rise of scandals deep,
Of bastards, shame, and lies,
The knight you swore to hold in pride
Was a smith in low disguise.

The triumphs sweet, the pitfalls wild,
As history’s veil you peel,
The maze of lives and names unfolds,
Your tangled truth revealed!

---

Refrain:

Oh, mighty Y, it leads the way,
The patriarch’s genetic sway,
But one mutation breaks the chain,
And leaves your dreams in vain.

And mitochondria sings its song,
Of mothers’ lines so long,
But Eve’s refrain is vague at best,
And haplogroups can’t rest.

Then autosomal joins the show,
Its threads in chaos grow,
A teaspoon here, a smidgeon there,
To weave your tale of woe.

So mix your genes and test your code,
A quest both high and low,
For though it mocks, the truth still calls,
To find what you don’t know!

---

Closing Verse:

Still onward march, you seekers brave,
Through records worn and frayed,
The magic’s not in what you find,
But in the hunt replayed.

So raise your vial, your spit, your dream,
Your tangled roots entwine,
For though it mocks, it lifts your soul,
To chase your unknown line!

---