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Re: Is this Forum still active?


 

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Daryl,

? ? ?What a lovely eloquent writing style you have, it's a pleasure to read.

I too have given up on FB, as it doesn't suit my personality type.

? Regarding your investigations around the origin of the name 'Little', I would suggest that it is not of Gaelic origin, although 'Begg' as a surname is sometimes seen in Scotland which is probably a back translation into Gaelic. The Gaels all believe they were descended from heroes, so it's unusual to find a surname that is not linked to a semi-legendary person. Place names and physical traits are seldom, if ever used in the Gaeltachd as a surname.? I think it's important to note that people of the same surname were very aware of eachother in the past, to the point that the MacPatrick's, for example, all chose to become Patterson's en-mass. The same thing with the Black's, from MacGilleDhuidh and many other examples. The surmane Little may have undergone a 'Clan' type uniformity reinvention.

? My instinct tells me that Little is a corruption of old Brythonic, lots of 'L's and 'Ll's in old Welsh.

Graham.


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Class1 Driver <class1driver@...>
Sent: 20 January 2022 19:11
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [R1b-L513] Is this Forum still active?
?
Hi Paula, and Mike, and Brad, and Leake. It's good to hear from you all in this format again.

I've glanced over the information you sent, Leake, and it's impressive. However when one goes to Wikipedia (the link you sent me) for the origins of the Little Clan it only references 'size' based on Latin terminology as per: "

Origins of the clan

According to Black, Little is a descriptive name and was originally written in??documents as?parvus?meaning little or small.?Given that the name is descriptive it is impossible to find any clear origin of the Little name in Scotland."


I'm not bold enough to change wikipedia but maybe I should be if there is consensus in my Little name origin theory. I'd prefer that a Little do it though. ;-)

Since I initially began my interest in surname origins years ago I've noticed a common theme -- that explanations of a surname origin are slanted in favour of any particular language of choice. In other words a guessing game, seemingly without much thought. Why would a person prefer a Latin origin theory for a Gaelic name (if it is indeed Gaelic)? If someone can come up with an alternative ethnic origin of Little I'd gladly consider it. But the language location, and politics in which a name arose should all be considered.?

For example why would a Scotsman name his ~100 foot steam yacht the 'Medea' which was built in 1904 (in 51 days) and currently sits (operationally) in the San Diego Maritime museum?
This question even arose in a book written about the Medea. The name has a seemingly negative connotation to it which I would paraphrase as a name rhyming with witch. To an Englishman this makes no sense, but to a Scotsman it does. My great grandfather captained the Medea when it was first built for a rich man surnamed Hall who, I believe, lived near Carradale, Kintyre, Argyll, Scotland. Captain? Duncan Martin was a fisherman whose job it was to earn a living fishing in the very dangerous waters around the Kintyre. Many men lost their lives to the sea including his eldest son who seemingly accidentally fell overboard when fishing with his father and younger brother. In an instant he was gone, never to be seen again despite frantic efforts to find him. Deaths on the sea were so common then that a local Campbeltown (where Cpt. Duncan lived) woman made unique sweaters for each fisherman which would then be necessarily used as a positive identification for them upon drowning.? So, in typical Scottish fashion, when a rich man names his yacht he attempts, in disdain for the wicked sea, to name it as having characteristics far greater than the sea. In essence it's like fighting fire with fire. What can defeat something evil? Perhaps something more evil.

Thus the name Medea was given to defeat the evil sea -- in my opinion. Today's English speaking yacht enthusiasts have never made that correlation, and are therefore confused as to the Medea name origin. I contend that surname origins are similarly misunderstood by people unfamiliar with the original language and culture. Perhaps a Scot linguist should be commissioned to investigate and change the origin definition of the surname Little. Then perhaps future googling of the name will give them something more resembling a likely probability of the origins of the name. Why should I care? Maybe it's OCD, I don't really know, except that I despise misinformation and wild guesses designed to appease the masses.? I much prefer well thought out theories, even conflicting ones, which tickle my imagination as being more possible than the first silly thought that comes to mind. ;-)

Where is this L193 group forum you (Paula) mention? I apologize, Leake, if you gave it to me already.

Best,

Daryl



On Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 10:59 PM Paula Knape via <peknape=[email protected]> wrote:
Hello again, Leake

Your L-193 group is of interest since it is more focused on our branch.

pk

On Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 06:58:00 PM CST, Leake Little <leakelittle@...> wrote:


Thanks Darrel. I noticed your post from a couple of years ago, and luckily I have more context recently as I have done a bit of a deep dive into the issues you raise. Lots to talk about.

We have this forum but I've also set up a smaller space to discuss L193 haplogroup issues - including origins, matching, history, geography, testing plans, etc.

For now let me copy here the latest version of the tools I use to put these pieces together more. One is a timeline that you may have seen before, in an earlier form. The other is a synthesis of what is knowable about some of these issues that relies on formal sources. It's not a treatise, just an attempt at summary of what is known or not presently in the record.

I'm guessing that there is still incredible detail in-between the broad strokes these tools present, but my hope is that they can be foundational for every genetic cluster and surname family lines by extension with their own findings (for instance). Let me know your thoughts.

leake

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