You can show kids that things are real (and way cool) from the center
of the city. Show them bright objects: craters on the moon, jupiter's
moons, saturns ring, and with proper filters, sunspots. Those are the
objects we show the public when we do sidewalk astronomy. Before
covid, we would get about 300 people looking through our scopes during
a weekend evening. Most of them were quite impressed. The same objects
may impress your kids as well.

attilla danko, , danko@...,
attilladanko@...

For some reason I didn't type the word kid in my original note.? It should have said I got into the hobby to show my KIDS things are real.? I have realistic expectations for dark sites.? Still, I suspect Andromeda can look better than a small blurry dot which is what I see with a C8 in my back yard.?

Greg

P. wrote:

you don't see colours like the pics, unless you take pics, right?

Very true. Even if you could use a spacecraft and reduce your distance
to nebulae by a factor of 1000 they still would not look like
photographs amateurs take. Color in astrophotos is 'art'.

However, I have seen color in telescopes. But only on a few objects
(orion nebula, trifid nebula) but only in scopes 25" or bigger. I've
also learned that color vision varies greatly from person to person.
Mike Wirths can easily see color in ic418 (the "raspberry") but I
cannot, even with a 25" scope.

I've been lucky enough to be at a public star night at McDonald
observatory, in west Texas, where they let us look through an 82"
scope. (I learned new swear-words that night.) I would argue that
those views were pretty close to what "things really look like".

-ad

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 2:35 PM PolyWogg <thepolyblog@...> wrote:

Hi Greg,

I am a member of RASC and the former Star Party Coordinator, and part of my motivation in doing that job was because it was open and it was the only way I could reliably guarantee I had somewhere to observe. :)

As Attilla noted, there are a few official areas. There are also some informal unofficial areas where "nobody complains", but lack of complaint is not my idea of "permission". When I joined RASC, I thought there might be a list of all the best places in Ottawa to observe, even some lists of parks or baseball diamonds/soccer fields in the outer areas that would be empty at night without lights. Nice big open fields? Nope. And honestly, people couldn't likely recommend them from anything like RASC officially anyway. There was a presentation about 2y after I joined and it was on places to observe, I was so excited, and nada. I already knew the places the person covered.

RASC/Almonte is likely your best bet, and the closest.

However, I will throw in a small piece of information. I was wondering how to find those outer fields, and it occurred to me that there is someone who would know -- the police who patrol the areas! So I reached out to the Community Liaison Officers noting we couldn't be in city parks after 11, and we don't want any issues of using telescopes near houses and people thinking we're peeping, etc. And asking if there was anyone I could chat with who does regional/rural patrols who could perhaps tell me where there were some dark public fields. The CLO patiently explained to me they couldn't do that, because it would be too much like endorsement, and if we went somewhere they told me, and I got hurt, well, it's a poopfest for everyone if I turn out to be a jerk or litigious or both.

However, she did say that city police are generally not going to kick me out of a public parking lot or field if I'm doing astronomy. They may come by, they may ask you what you're doing, but most of the time, they'll look through the scope if you let them, and then drive away. The 11:00 curfews are there to give them power to shut people down who are making a nuisance of themselves or to roust transients. Astronomers rarely are seen as rabble rousers. Private security like Garda are often more rules-focused because if there's a complaint later, they get reamed for it. Cops would tell the person complaining to go screw themselves, Garda takes it seriously cuz if many people complain they're not doing their job, they lose the contract. In my experience, police confirm what the CLO told me...they generally don't care unless someone complained, and even then, they check to see what you're doing, and go on to more important things.

Some have been booted by police, and everyone has a story, but I've used different parks from time to time, and never had an issue. I've had cops park in the same lot doing their reports and never came to even talk to me. I've had dozens of cars pass me (not in the same night) and never even bothered to get out of the car. Of course, if you have a large dob / cannon on a flight path to the airport...

My last thought, though, is that I feel like their attitude changes the longer you go past midnight / 1:00 a.m. / 2:00 a.m. They often don't understand that people are sitting doing imaging for long periods of time and one of the annoying parts is they swing in with their cars and light you up with their headlights, destroying night vision.

One last caveat though...you mentioned going to dark skies and seeing what things really look like...I assume you know that you don't see colours like the pics, unless you take pics, right? What you see in the city isn't a whole different from what you see in the wild, just more light, more detail...it's way better, sure, but not way "different", no colour, doesn't look like Star Trek, etc. Just managing expectations if you go to Almonte. FYI, if you're considering membership in RASC to get access, you can also likely go out on a "trial" basis with someone who is running the observatory. And fyi, members get access to the site but if you also do a training course, you can also join a smaller club within the centre that accesses the larger scopes on site out there too (instead of hauling your own gear).

P.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 2:05 PM Adam Bell <adambell714@...> wrote:

Hi Greg,

I'm in a similar position, new to astronomy and live in downtown Ottawa (golden triangle). I've tried several locations with mixed results.

Parking lot P16 (Meech Creek Valley) in Gatineau Park is my preferred site. Under 30 minute drive from downtown, decent skies, good field of view (large clearing), plowed in the winter.
The Ottawa light dome is south (might be a nuisance, depending on what you plan to obeserve). I have seen one other astronomer there recently. Gatineau Police came through one time, friendly, asked me what I was doing and left, but it made me wonder how safe the site might be if the police make an effort to patrol it. I tried the area around P15 as well but it wasn't great.

North Frontenac Dark Sky Preserve is amazing, I met some good people there the one time I went. Long drive though.

I think I will join the Ottawa RASC chapter and use their site (Fred Lossing Observatory) as others suggested. It's not much further than Gatineau anyway.

-Adam

Hi Greg,

I'm in a similar position, new to astronomy and live in downtown Ottawa (golden triangle). I've tried several locations with mixed results.

Parking lot P16 (Meech Creek Valley) in Gatineau Park is my preferred site. Under 30 minute drive from downtown, decent skies, good field of view (large clearing), plowed in the winter.
The Ottawa light dome is south (might be a nuisance, depending on what you plan to obeserve). I have seen one other astronomer there recently. Gatineau Police came through one time, friendly, asked me what I was doing and left, but it made me wonder how safe the site might be if the police make an effort to patrol it. I tried the area around P15 as well but it wasn't great.

North Frontenac Dark Sky Preserve is amazing, I met some good people there the one time I went. Long drive though.

I think I will join the Ottawa RASC chapter and use their site (Fred Lossing Observatory) as others suggested. It's not much further than Gatineau anyway.

-Adam

Nicely detailed images. The color saturation is higher than my taste,
but very nice.

attilla danko, , danko@...,
attilladanko@...

Joining the Ottawa RASC to gain access to their observatory locating
in Bennies corners is a good choice. Members only unless there is a
public star party one (which there isnt because of covid.) Weather
forecast for it is <>. Try
the "road map" link on that page.

That's because there are no public observing locations anywhere in
Ottawa. By Ottawa bylaw, parks close at 11pm. Anyone staying there
afterwards is officially tresspassing. You may have heard of publc
star parties held in the parking lot fo the Carp LIbrary/Diefenbunker.
But were allowed to go there only on nights arranged between the city
of Ottawa and the Ottawa RASC. And they have to arrange the dates a
whole year in advance. There hasn't been a star party there since 2019
because of covid.

In practice, you can setup on any sidewalk as long as you do not
obstruct pedestrian traffic. Before Covid, we did that often in front
of chapter's bookstores to show the pubic the moon and planets. But
that's not appropriate for astrophotography or any kind of astronomy
where you're not activly inviting the public to look through your
scope.

There are only 4 kinds of places to observe in in ontario (I know of
none of these within a half hour of ottawa).

1. Private land, where you have permission of the land owner. There is
a group in Ottawa which has gotten permission from a farm owner.
Perpaps Pierre M. will invite you to it.

2. Crown land. no permission needed. But good luck finding a spot
where the sky isnt totally covered with trees.

The only spot I know of is Irvine Lake airstrip off of hightway 41.
Two hours away. It's an abandoned airstrip, so good horizons. Scary
dirt road. No cell coverage, electricity or washrooms. Watch out for
bears. Don't go there alone. Unless you bring a lawn mower the grass
will be several feet tall. Years ago we got official permission, from
NMR, to observe there because it's crown land. But they warned us not
to setup on the airstrip proper because it may still be used for
emergency landings. We're allowed to camp there for up to 30 days.
Weather forecast for Irvine Lake Airstrip (which we have nicknamed
"Nirvana") is <>.
See the "road map" link.

3. The "Lennox and Addington Dark Sky Viewing Area". No permission
needed 24/7 access. Quite dark. But 2.5 hours from ottawa. The weather
forecast page for it is
<>. Try the "road map"
link on that page. The layout makes it carring one's gear from the
parking spaces to the observing pad a longish haul.

4. North Frontenac Dark Sky Preserve, Darker than Lennox and Addington
and about 1.5 hours from Ottawa. Specifically built for astronomers
and open 24/7. No permission needed, though they do ask you to sign a
guest book. It has a good paved road to flat parking lot. There a
concrete pad for telescopes with 110V ac power for telescopes. There
are nice outhouses. The parking lot is large and flat gravel. We can
back-up our cars quite close to the observing pad for
loading/unloading. The only restriction is no tent camping. The
weather forecast page, with map is
>

We still have to follow covid rules for all of the above.


attilla danko, , danko@...,
attilladanko@...

I just joined this group this morning since my wife is tired of listening to me talk about (and spend money on) Astronomy.? I was imaging on the 5th and 6th.? From what I remember the seeing was poor on the 5th and non of my pictures turned out.? The 6th was much better but I still could only stack less than 20%.? My pictures of Jupiter and Saturn are attached.? These are likely limited by technique vs the seeing.

--

Hi,

I'm relatively new to astronomy and have been observing from my backyard.? I live near Dow's lake and the all but the brightest targets are washed out by the city lights.? This has pushed me towards imaging which is fine, however I got into the hobby to show my what they see in books are real.? There is something special about seeing the actual photons created by some distant object.

Are there any good darker locations within 30minutes of the city?? Please don't recommend a site unless there is no issue with access.? I was kicked out of a park by Garda one night after fully setting up and completing PA.?

Thanks,

Greg

I was at the North Frontenac Dark Sky Preserve on Wednesday with my 19 year old daughter. This was her first dark sky. At one point she says no wonder you like Nirvana, it's the second darkest on the map! Now she wants to do a camping trip :).

开云体育

Would you say seeing was good tonight, then?

开云体育