Re: New Tutorial video - wavy washer upgrade
Arun,
I meant to say, best to take it apart and look to see if you don't already have the spring washer in yours.
From what Brian explained to me, our GM811G heads are a kind of high-bred. G11 - RA, with a GM-8 - Dec.
So since our GM811G's are probably (But I don't know) the latest of the greatest, maybe the "wavey washer" Spring Washer is already in it.
I could easily dismantle mine to look for you. But I'd prefer not to if I can talk you into dismantling yours instead. ;^) LOL!
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SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
The McLennan gearboxes and other issues were issues people were trying to overcome periodic PEC tick issues with the losmandy drive. ?People like this site have been doing it since yr 2000! ?Specificly the early worms PE was not as good as new versions.?
Don¡¯t bag the site or David. ?They are both very good resources. David repairs Gemini¡¯s. I can tell you he¡¯s damn good at what he does. ?
as for the Gearbox mod. Many many people have reported significant improvements changing to it ? Mark Crossley is a legend in early losmandy mounts?
Users mileage may vary of course. ! ?The early motors were either French or Chinese but definitely metric.?
Brendan
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
" Mr Edmonds
?
I *did not* say the Losmandy gearboxes were poor quality.? I said my RA gearbox had become noisy which is true.
?
It has every right to have become noisy over the years as the mount is hardly in the first flush of youth.
?
I very strongly object to your misrepresenting what I said.
?
I do have views about the comparative quality of the McLennan gearboxes and those sold by Losmandy, but didn¡¯t actually say anything about that.
?
Moderators please tell this guy off
?
David Partridge"
And as a matter of clear record here, David, I did not say you did.
I stated I stopped reading your linked article as soon as I found it disagreeable TO ME!
(Here in the States, we can do that.)
It appears you have a reading comprehension malfunction.
There are others here who also noted exactly what I said.
I think Jaguars and Rolls Royce's?will never grace my driveway as well.
But I do have several friends from Great Britain who relocated here. Great folks.
It would be nice if you were counted in that group. But now, humm, not so sure.
You have a tendency to freak out and fly off the handle.
Enjoy your mount. I enjoy mine just the way it is. All American, and no Metric, or Wentworth in it anywhere.
And if I meant to offend you, Oh, believe me, I could rip you a new one.
I simply disagreed with your linked article.
-- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
David,
It is the way you linked it that led me to believe it was your site, assumptions are always dangerous :), however, I also took it that you were endorsing the site, another assumption perhaps but then what is says follows.
I can see that if you use PEC it would have an advantage but I have never done that.
Thanks for the clarification.
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The??website is not in any way related to me.? It belongs to Mark Crossley with whom I have no relationship, and indeed have never met.? So you are *totally incorrect* in your assumption. ? If you press me on the subject, then I can tell you that there is no question in my mind that the McLennan gearboxes are superior to the Losmandy ones in a number of significant ways (partly because they are all metal construction, partly because they use superior bearings and gears, and partly because the internal gear ratios are more amenable to PEC correction (*) than the stock items ¨C though the originals didn¡¯t introduce much in the way of PE).?? ? As a convenience I provided a pointer to the ¡°canonical¡± article on how to replace the Losmandy gearboxes with McLennan.?? That doesn¡¯t mean I endorse everything the author of that web page says. but regardless of his strong view on the quality of the Losmandy gearboxes the web page information is nonetheless useful. ? (*) The internal gear ratios are integral to the worm period so PE errors from the gearbox can be cancelled out with PEC, which cannot be done with the originals.?? I¡¯d refer you to Cloudynights ? David ? ? David, I do not believe you were misrepresented by the other poster, the first line of the article by you, I assume,, says: The gearboxes supplied with the G11 are pretty poor quality and I searched for some time to find a viable alternative. I have no idea whether the gearboxes now supplied by Losmandy are still the same as you had originally on your mount but maybe you could clarify this. Other than noise reduction what other improvements have you achieved by changing the gearboxes? 9999999
? I *did not* say the Losmandy gearboxes were poor quality.? I said my RA gearbox had become noisy which is true. It has every right to have become noisy over the years as the mount is hardly in the first flush of youth. I very strongly object to your misrepresenting what I said. I do have views about the comparative quality of the McLennan gearboxes and those sold by Losmandy, but didn¡¯t actually say anything about that. Moderators please tell this guy off August.
2026 or 2027.
I stopped reading your link when it started off saying Losmandy gearboxes are poor quality.
--?
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)? ?
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
The www.wilmslowastro.com website is not in any way related to me.? It belongs to Mark Crossley with whom I have no relationship, and indeed have never met.? So you are *totally incorrect* in your assumption. ? If you press me on the subject, then I can tell you that there is no question in my mind that the McLennan gearboxes are superior to the Losmandy ones in a number of significant ways (partly because they are all metal construction, partly because they use superior bearings and gears, and partly because the internal gear ratios are more amenable to PEC correction (*) than the stock items ¨C though the originals didn¡¯t introduce much in the way of PE).? ? As a convenience I provided a pointer to the ¡°canonical¡± article on how to replace the Losmandy gearboxes with McLennan.?? That doesn¡¯t mean I endorse everything the author of that web page says. but regardless of his strong view on the quality of the Losmandy gearboxes the web page information is nonetheless useful. ? (*) The internal gear ratios are integral to the worm period so PE errors from the gearbox can be cancelled out with PEC, which cannot be done with the originals.?? I¡¯d refer you to Cloudynights ? David ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Homer
Sent: 07 March 2020 20:46
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Fitting McLennan gearboxes? David, I do not believe you were misrepresented by the other poster, the first line of the article by you, I assume,, says: The gearboxes supplied with the G11 are pretty poor quality and I searched for some time to find a viable alternative. I have no idea whether the gearboxes now supplied by Losmandy are still the same as you had originally on your mount but maybe you could clarify this. Other than noise reduction what other improvements have you achieved by changing the gearboxes? 9999999
? I *did not* say the Losmandy gearboxes were poor quality.? I said my RA gearbox had become noisy which is true. It has every right to have become noisy over the years as the mount is hardly in the first flush of youth. I very strongly object to your misrepresenting what I said. I do have views about the comparative quality of the McLennan gearboxes and those sold by Losmandy, but didn¡¯t actually say anything about that. Moderators please tell this guy off August.
2026 or 2027.
I stopped reading your link when it started off saying Losmandy gearboxes are poor quality.
--?
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)? ?
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
[AMD Official Use Only - Internal Distribution Only]
I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood that the article David linked to does not appear to be written by him, unless it was done under a pseudonym:
"I am Mark Crossley, and you may have guessed I live in Wilmslow, UK."
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
David,
I do not believe you were misrepresented by the other poster, the first line of the article by you, I assume,, says:
The gearboxes supplied with the G11 are pretty poor quality and I searched for some time to find a viable alternative.
I have no idea whether the gearboxes now supplied by Losmandy are still the same as you had originally on your mount but maybe you could clarify this.
Other than noise reduction what other improvements have you achieved by changing the gearboxes?
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Mr Edmonds ? I *did not* say the Losmandy gearboxes were poor quality.? I said my RA gearbox had become noisy which is true. ? It has every right to have become noisy over the years as the mount is hardly in the first flush of youth. ? I very strongly object to your misrepresenting what I said. ? I do have views about the comparative quality of the McLennan gearboxes and those sold by Losmandy, but didn¡¯t actually say anything about that. ? Moderators please tell this guy off ? David Partridge ? ? August.
2026 or 2027.
I stopped reading your link when it started off saying Losmandy gearboxes are poor quality.
--?
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)?
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Re: New Tutorial video - wavy washer upgrade
Michael, mine has the groove. I can move a 22Lb Weight 3.50 or so inches with no response from the RA, Mine is a bit sticky I think, we will see, it is a small issue to deal with. Plus I needed to buy extra DEC and RA cables any how. HAPPY SKIES Deric
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
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-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Herman <mherman346@...>
Date: 3/7/20 10:57 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] New Tutorial video - wavy washer upgrade
Gentlefolk,
As Sonny just said, look before you leap.
The heavy wavy spring cannot fit your mount unless it already has a machined? groove for the (flattened) wavy washer to fit in.??
So...look at the metal surfaces of your clutch area before you try and put a wavy washer in there.? It might conceivably have a groove and no washer in place.??
Best of luck,
Michael
Arun,
You might best look before you order. ;^)
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: New Tutorial video - wavy washer upgrade
Thanks, Sonny and Michael. Yes, I absolutely plan to look before I leap!
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Re: New Tutorial video - wavy washer upgrade
Gentlefolk,
As Sonny just said, look before you leap.
The heavy wavy spring cannot fit your mount unless it already has a machined? groove for the (flattened) wavy washer to fit in.??
So...look at the metal surfaces of your clutch area before you try and put a wavy washer in there.? It might conceivably have a groove and no washer in place.??
Best of luck, Michael
Arun,
You might best look before you order. ;^)
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
Well he did say he stopped reading the LINK, the first sentence of which begins ¡° The gearboxes supplied with the G11 are pretty poor quality¡.¡± ?Seems like a silly reason not to learn something, but to each his own. ?
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Mr Edmonds ? I *did not* say the Losmandy gearboxes were poor quality.? I said my RA gearbox had become noisy which is true. ? It has every right to have become noisy over the years as the mount is hardly in the first flush of youth. ? I very strongly object to your misrepresenting what I said. ? I do have views about the comparative quality of the McLennan gearboxes and those sold by Losmandy, but didn¡¯t actually say anything about that. ? Moderators please tell this guy off ? David Partridge ? ? August.
2026 or 2027.
I stopped reading your link when it started off saying Losmandy gearboxes are poor quality.
--?
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)?
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
Mr Edmonds ? I *did not* say the Losmandy gearboxes were poor quality.? I said my RA gearbox had become noisy which is true. ? It has every right to have become noisy over the years as the mount is hardly in the first flush of youth. ? I very strongly object to your misrepresenting what I said. ? I do have views about the comparative quality of the McLennan gearboxes and those sold by Losmandy, but didn¡¯t actually say anything about that. ? Moderators please tell this guy off ? David Partridge ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: 07 March 2020 16:26
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Fitting McLennan gearboxes ? August.
2026 or 2027.
I stopped reading your link when it started off saying Losmandy gearboxes are poor quality.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
It¡¯s a good mod on my G11 and Titan, have not replaced a gear box since. Much quieter as well.
leroy
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-----Original Message----- From: David C. Partridge Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 7:29 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] Fitting McLennan gearboxes I've just fitted a pair of these to my G-11 as the old RA gearbox had become really quite noisy. I've not much to add to what's here: <> However there are a few points worthy of mention: 1) Step 5: I think a better drill size to use for drilling the hole for the tip of the grub screw in the 3/16" brass tube would be 7/64 (2.78mm). A 2.5mm drill might just be large enough. 2) Step 7: I'd say I needed to lengthen those holes a bit more than is suggested - perhaps as much as 2.5mm or a smidge more. 3) Step 9: I fitted a short (16.5mm = 21/32") piece of 1/10" (shrunk size) heat shrink (2.5mm for the metric folks) to each of the new mounting screws rather than using tape to get a good fit to the motor housing. The mount now runs much more quietly at slewing speeds. The new all metal gearboxes also feel much more solid. Now when are we going to get a clear night ??? David
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Re: New Tutorial video - wavy washer upgrade
Arun,
You might best look before you order. ;^)
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Fitting McLennan gearboxes
August.
2026 or 2027.
I stopped reading your link when it started off saying Losmandy gearboxes are poor quality.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: New Tutorial video - wavy washer upgrade
Nice video, and good to see you in "person". I might order one of those if it would help me balance my GM811G better in RA.
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Fitting McLennan gearboxes
I've just fitted a pair of these to my G-11 as the old RA gearbox had become
really quite noisy.
I've not much to add to what's here:
<>
However there are a few points worthy of mention:
1) Step 5: I think a better drill size to use for drilling the hole for the
tip of the grub screw in the 3/16" brass tube would be 7/64 (2.78mm). A
2.5mm drill might just be large enough.
2) Step 7: I'd say I needed to lengthen those holes a bit more than is
suggested - perhaps as much as 2.5mm or a smidge more.
3) Step 9: I fitted a short (16.5mm = 21/32") piece of 1/10" (shrunk size)
heat shrink (2.5mm for the metric folks) to each of the new mounting screws
rather than using tape to get a good fit to the motor housing.
The mount now runs much more quietly at slewing speeds. The new all metal
gearboxes also feel much more solid.
Now when are we going to get a clear night ???
David
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Thanks for all the advice
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Re: Likely causes of DEC stall?
I have also seen binding caused by a marred ring gear ¨C how it happened I don¡¯t know and the owner claimed not to know either. ? I didn¡¯t have any files fine enough to fettle that damage ¨C a 0.5mmt thick dremel disc was also too coarse. ? D. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Herman
Sent: 06 March 2020 21:27
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Likely causes of DEC stall? ? Hi Taylor, I find my DEC Stalled messages from one of 2 causes: a. The DEC axis is not balanced.? This means the load is not in the dovetail saddle at the right position. Especially if it was balanced and I added a few shield (weights the front too much) or my deep sky camera (weights the back too much) To check this best: ? ?Always first install a 1/4-20 bolt in the front of the dovetail (should be a threaded hole there) so the scope can't slip out into the ground. ? ?Next, rotate your RA til the scope and counterweights are horizontal. This removes all weight from the clutch disk and the axis will freely spin. ? ?Then loosen the DEC clutch and this will cause the scope to flip up or down if not balanced (be ready to catch it!!!!).? ? ?Then carefully adjust the scope in the dovetail or else move other weights around (there are sliding weight systems for SCTs anyway).? Before I move my scope I put it back at CWD... because if horizontal there can be a lot of friction with the dovetail edges.?? b. The DEC worm is getting stuck. The Belleville washer you put in cannot make the worm get stuck. It's only a spring that keeps the worm from side to side motion.? So worm binding is most likely the worm pushed into the ring gear too tightly, or a speck of something (dust/sand) is jamming it.? So first try spraying in some lube (lithium grease, perhaps, or WD40?) and use a spark plug feeler gauge to slightly increase the worm to ring gear gap.? Always carry a set of US sized Allen wrenches if you go out to the field (or back yard!), because this adjustment is so common.?? Chip thinks the binding between the ring and worm is temperature related...as it surely can be. But the major parts that expand and contract radially from the DEC center are all aluminum.? I was hoping the expansion and contraction would scale so the gap would remain constant.? But as Chip also pointed out, if the ring gear is not perfectly centered, or one of the cylindrical needle bearings slightly higher, it will push the ring gear toward the worm gear at a certain high spot in the 360 degree rotation if the ring gear. So as Chip says, run your axis around 180 degrees clockwise, the back and 180 degrees Counterclockwise to be sure there are no high binding spots. ? On Fri, Mar 6, 2020, 12:32 PM Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote: Hi Taylor with those additional details, i would say your DEC worm is binding, particularly since you've been inside the gear and customizing it, it seems like the likely cause. I don't know much about Michael's belleville customization, so he may have input here. If your electronics and battery were good before, they are probably still fine ? On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 9:37 AM taylor waber <taylorwab@...> wrote: Brian ¨C Thank you, I bought my mount ~Oct 2018 and it does not have spring loaded worms. I think it would be useful to add to the OPW adjustment to say do this during imaging temperatures and also slew the mount 360 deg in order to see if there are any spots that it binds, or in Chip¡¯s recommendation, if there are any spots where the power draw is high. ? Michael ¨C Thanks as always for the detailed response! I¡¯ll be giving this a shot tonight, as the forecast is cloudy. ? Paul ¨C I have a 12V DC battery with a DC-DC boost converter to 15V DC to the Gemini 2 unit. ? Sonny- So glad you ironed out your issues! Hopefully I¡¯ll be next! ? Chip ¨C I¡¯m running OPW (not spring-loaded). Thanks! I¡¯ll definitely run the mount all the way around to see if there¡¯s any binding. Could I watch the current draw on the Gemini unit? Or should I hook up a multimeter? (mine was about $35 off amazon so I hope it¡¯s of quality) ? ALL ¨C Would you expect worm adjustment to change when transporting the mount to a dark location? I feel that the small thumb screws, to adjust the worm distance, stick out so much that I could bump them in moving and it would adjust the worm. I might 3D print some small covers and Velcro them to cover these during transport. Also upgrading to the spring-loaded worms would solve this issue entirely so I might do that.
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Re: New Tutorial video - wavy washer upgrade
Great video! Covered all the points, the length is just right for the detail you put into it. Keep it up.
Les
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David C. Partridge
Michael Herman