Hi guy's

my list be in very incomplete is of the Military settlers and now it includes ordinary (civilian) settlers(osadnicy)
who lived in the areas. I'm trying to get a database together where I'll keep adding names as they crop up but having had the flu
and other things going I've not been able to spend much time on the web sites

Paul


At 11:16 10/27/2001 +1000, you wrote:

Thanks Jan
Perhaps you can share the websites with the list?? We will look at the best way to do a list of surnames.? I know that Paul has a list of names on his Kresy.co.uk site, but they are of the "colonists" in the Kresy area.? With between 1 and 2 million deported, the database could get pretty big eventually ...
I welcome any other suggestions for "projects" by the group to aid our common cause.
Stefan

From: JCBSERV@...

Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:47:59 EDT

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAQs?

Dear Stefan,

I would like very much to be a part of what you are doing here.? Unfortunately, I have only recently found out that my grandfather's family was sent to Kazakhstan, and don't really know where to go from here!? But, as the host of the Polish/Eastern Europe Chat on AOL, I do have quite a few websites that might be helpful, at least as far as research goes.? Not too many about the deportations.?? And I will be glad to send you some of the better ones, if that will help.

I also think it would be a good idea for us all to list the names of our ancestors who were deported.? Even if we only list surnames, it might help some of us to make connections!? I have never, in almost 20 years of research found anyone named MIERZEJEWSKI who was connected to me!? There are many from the area of Olsztyn, but I am told that there can be no connection to my MIERZEJEWSKis who lived in what is now Ukraine!! I'd sure like to know why not!!? My ancestors had to get there SOMEHOW!!!!?

As far as land records, I do have some information from a letter from a BRONOWICKI cousin, where his family's land was returned to them.? They were not deported, they fled to western Poland, but they did get their land back.? I never found out what they did with the land, or how they got it back.? Since I don't speak Polish, and he doesn't speak English, communications have been difficult to say the least.? He has not answered the last 2 letters I wrote to him!

I think this is a great list, with very helpful and informative people, and I tell everyone who has ancestors who were a part of this whole mess to join the list, and learn more!

Just my 2 kopeks!

Jan Birkner

========Original Message========

Subj:?? [Kresy-Siberia] FAQs???

Date:?? 10/11/01 4:29:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time??

From:??? swisniowski@... (Stefan Wisniowski)

Reply-to: Kresy-Siberia@...

To:??? Kresy-Siberia@...

??

??

Question for the group,

Now that we are nearing 50 members, this is feeling like a bit of a critical

mass.? What should we do together to advance our cause?

Some similar groups adopt one or more special projects.? Like a registry of

names, a petition, a memorial fund or a museum.

I have a specific suggestion and would like to get your reactions please.

I suggest that we might start by collaborating on a website that would be

especially useful for new members as they discover us and want to learn more

about this tragic yet heroic event.? Several members have their own sites

already (Paul, Wladyslaw, Janusz, Chris, Janek, to name a few).? These are

all hotlinked through to AForgottenOdyssey.com site that Steve Roy helped me

put together in record time to publicise Jagna Wright's fantastic film.

This site is "version 1".? We can make it better with your feedback and

input.? For example, we should have a "gallery" of photographs.? If we got

organised, we would put together a list of FAQs (frequently asked questions)

like on the better genealogy sites (eg, who did this to the Poles, why, who

was taken, where, when, where can I get more info, was there ever

compensation, what happened to Polish citizenship when the land was lost,

etc.).? Also we could have a list of resources for information (Hoover

Institution, Polish Memorial Committee in Moscow, Karta archives, Sikorski

Institute, Zwiazek Sybiraków, Polish Embassy in Teheran, etc.) as well as

recommended books on the topic.

Though I am happy to be a point person to coordinate this type of activity,

I can not do all of this alone, and "many hands make light work".? Would

anybody care to offer their help in putting some of these things together?

The only qualification required is a desire to contribute and help others

who share our quest.

--

Stefan Wisniowski

Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

Thanks Jan
Perhaps you can share the websites with the list? ?We will look at the best way to do a list of surnames. ?I know that Paul has a list of names on his Kresy.co.uk site, but they are of the "colonists" in the Kresy area. ?With between 1 and 2 million deported, the database could get pretty big eventually ...
I welcome any other suggestions for "projects" by the group to aid our common cause.
Stefan

Michael Adamski, living in Toronto, Canada , independant
producer of the films: ' Rescued from the Death in Siberia',
'Bysmy nie Zapomnieli' , & ' Za nasza i Wasza Wolnosc', (see my
website: www. mdavideo.com) interested in personal
experiences of former Deportees to Siberia with intension to
gather more first hand information for the purpose of possible
production of another film based on their stories.

E-mail: madamski@...

开云体育

______________________________________________________
Bo?te aux lettres - Caramail -

I will be able fax Stefan with the names of all the Presidents in
Poland including Lodz, some areon the internet and some speak
and write English


J Roy-Wojciechowski
Honorary Consul, Republic of Poland
51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland. NZ.
Tel.649 534 4670. Fax. 649 535 4068
email(polish@...)
website www.polishheritage.co.nz

How about the Zwiazek Sybiriakow in Lodz

Paul

At 09:05 10/24/2001 +1000, you wrote:

I would like to welcome Wanda Truksa to the Kresy-Siberia group.? She is the
president of the Association of Siberians (Zwiazek Sybiraków) in Toronto,
Canada.

For your information, we now have 3 country presidents of the Zwiazek
Sybiraków in the group:
Canada,
Australia (Mrs Jadzia Solka-Krajewska through her husband George Krajewski),
New Zealand (Mr John Roy-Wojciechowski).

Does anybody know of any others we can invite (like from UK and USA)?

--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+?? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP????????????????????????????????
+?? Research, Remembrance, Recognition???????????????????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+??? Websites:?
+???????????????????????? http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+??? Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+??? Send e-mails to:? Kresy-Siberia@...??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+??? To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+??? Kresy-Siberia-owner@...???
+??? saying who you are and your interest in the group???
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+?? To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:??
+?? Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...?????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

Hi Jan
I got your message. ?Thanks for saying those nice things.

What you need to do, though, is send this to the whole group.

Please send it again, this time to

That is where you should send all your e-mails if you want the group to see them!

Thanks

--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

From: JCBSERV@...
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:01:48 EDT
To: swisniowski@...
Subject: Re: Jan Birkner

Hi Group,

Korzec is now Korets, near Rovno, now in the Rivnens'ka oblast in Ukraine. ?The documents that I have speak about the "church Majrich" in Nowini, in the Alexandria or Anastasia county. ?These documents are written in Russian, and were translated by a professional translator of Russian. ?The documents were given to my great aunt in 1914, when she left for the US. ?One was her baptismal certificate and one was her marriage certificate.

The one living relative who was born in Poland, was born in Tarnopil, at least, that is what she thinks. ?She is the one who was sent to Siberia at the age of six. ?She doesn't remember much of what happened in those years.

This is a great list, and the website is wonderful! ?Keep up the good work.

Jan Birkner

========Original Message========
Subj: ??Re: Jan Birkner
Date: ??10/06/01 10:33:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time ?
From:? ? swisniowski@... (Stefan Wisniowski)
To:? ? JCBSERV@..., Kresy-Siberia@...
???
???


Hi Jan - I am putting this response out to the list to see if anybody has
info on the town of KORZEC.

It may be worth your while to get back to our site at
www.AForgottenOdyssey.com, as it is in English and most of the sites on the
links page are in English.

Some of the sites are in Polish - and many in Poland do not speak English.
However, I speak both and many people on the Kresy-Siberia list speak both.
We can always help translate things.

If you put some specific requests to the group, I'm sure that somebody will
try to help you!
Regards,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

From: JCBSERV@...
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:47:21 EDT

Dear Stefan,

I checked out the website, and it broke my heart!? IT's all in Polish, which
I do not read or speak.? Is there a chance that it might be someday
translated to English, for us who are looking for our families from the US?
I did try to read the Wolyn pages, and I did see that Korzec, where my
family is from was mentioned, but I couldn't make anything of the rest of
the page!? Is there a contact, someone I could write to in English to find
out about my family?

Thank you,

Jan Birkner

========Original Message========
Subj:?? Introducing Jan Birkner
Date:?? 10/04/01 2:11:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From:? ? swisniowski@... (Stefan Wisniowski)
To:? ? Kresy-Siberia@..., JCBSERV@...
? ?
Welcome to Jan Birkner. Family from Kresy (pre-WW1 Galicia), deported to
both Siberia and Kazakhstan (in 1940-41, I presume).

Jan, to get a quick primer on this (more like "drinking from a fire hose")
please visit our associated site www.AForgottenOdyssey.com and check out the
links page.? The history of the 1.7 million Poles deported to Russia and the
Soviet Union for forced labour and death is a shocking and little-recognised
one.? That's why our motto is "research, remembrance, recognition".

Again, welcome!
----------
> From: JCBSERV@...
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:51:56 EDT
>
> Dear Stefan,
>
> Someone on either the Russian or one of the Polish lists suggested that I join
> this group, since my grandmother's family was sent to Siberia.? Strangely
> enough, my grandfather's family was also sent to the camps, but they went to
> Kazakhstan!? What a bunch!! No wonder NOBODY in the world knows anything about
> either of them!
>
> I have been doing genealogy for about 19 years, researching in Poland,
> Ukraine, Prussia , and Denmark, as well as MA and NJ in the US.? My heritage
> is Polish back to about the 1700s, when a small group of Germans came to
> Poland to settle.? One of them became a Roman Catholic and married a Polish
> girl.? All of the rest of my family are from Poland, as far back as I can
> find, anyway.? Some were in Eastern Galicia, which is now western Ukraine, so
> I have been looking there as well.? My husband's ancestors are mostly Danish,
> except for his maternal grandmother, who was born out of wedlock in East
> Prussia.? She was given her mother's name, Ewert, and later, her father and
> mother married, and had a son.
>
> One of my living cousins was sent to Siberia as a child.? She, her parents and
> her 2 younger sisters.? Her sisters both died, but she and her parents
> survived, and came to the US in the 50's some time.? I remember her arrival,
> but not the year.? Of course, at the time,? I didn't know the significance of
> the phrase, Displaced Person!? I spoke with her about 3 years ago, about her
> experiences.? She said she was only a child then, and children don't really
> realize what is going on around them.? She had no clear memories of the camps.
> Except that when they were released, they were afraid to go back to their
> home, and afraid to go deeper into Poland, so they WALKED to Iran.? From
> there, they? ended up in England, and somehow contacted my dad, who worked for
> Gdynia America line at the time, and he arranged for their their emigration to
> the US.
>
> Jan Birkner



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I would like to welcome Wanda Truksa to the Kresy-Siberia group. She is the
president of the Association of Siberians (Zwiazek Sybiraków) in Toronto,
Canada.

For your information, we now have 3 country presidents of the Zwiazek
Sybiraków in the group:
Canada,
Australia (Mrs Jadzia Solka-Krajewska through her husband George Krajewski),
New Zealand (Mr John Roy-Wojciechowski).

Does anybody know of any others we can invite (like from UK and USA)?

--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

The following Kresy-Siberia poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: Recently Nazi victims of forced labour
were paid compensation by German
government and industry. Do you
think that the families of the
deportees to Siberia should also get
any compensation for their loss of
land and period of forced labour
under the Soviets?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- No, they have been compensated already, 0 votes, 0.00%
- No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after the War, 0 votes, 0.00%
- No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Maybe - I need to learn more about this, 2 votes, 25.00%
- Yes - from the countries of the former USSR, 5 votes, 62.50%
- Yes - from Poland itself, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Yes - but don't know how or from who, 1 votes, 12.50%



For more information about this group, please visit


For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit

Here is a message from Alexander in Moscow.
--
Stefan
----------

So it may be a flawed institution, and if it is only for Jews, then we
should obviously not register non-Jewish family there. I think we should
probably investigate this a bit more. I welcome other opinions.

Dear Stefan and other group members,
here are some of my thoughts, while the institution may be flawed, I don' t
think we need to turn away, checking it out further is definitely worth a
try. Jan mentioned that she was there, what are your thoughts, was it geared
strictly to the Jews or was there a feeling that other nationalities also
suffered? Of course the public is interested in the Holocaust and will flock
to such a place, it's all over the history books; the plight of Poles to
Siberia is not in the books. But it doesn't mean that getting the story out
there now is too late!
I have an excerpt from a newspaper article dated 9/19/1977, "In 1990 Joseph
Wardzala was among the FIRST CATHOLICS to videotape an oral history with the
museum. His 30 minute talk can be viewed in the museum's Wexner Learning
Center. The museum plans to offer a multimedia presentation including clips
from Wardzala's oral history to high school across the United States via the
internet."

Just think what that would mean if we could get someone from the group in
on this 'multimedia presentation out to high schools"............
janie

Stefan you are doing special work, please continue
Janek

On 22 Oct 2001, at 1:21, Stefan Wisniowski wrote:

Dear group members,

Last month I founded this list and invited you all to join in a common
cause - which is that of the Polish citizens from Kresy deported by
the Soviets during the war. Nearly 50 people are now members, which
is wonderful, and new requests to join are coming in each week.

When I started this list, I did so with some hesitation because I was
warned that the role of owner and moderator would take a fair bit of
time. However, I did it because nobody else was and I believe in the
importance of this cause.

A major responsibility of a list owner and moderator is to maintain a
positive and constructive dialogue in the group. Recently, there has
been as emerging tone in some of the discussions that was starting to
denigrate the contributions of other members. I knew that, if allowed
to continue, this would discourage the open sharing of views which is
essential to making this thing work. Eventually, good people would
leave the group.

Accordingly, I have temporarily suspended one group member pending
their commitment to respect a more civil approach to these
discussions. I took this step after much reflection, because I
believe that the contributions of every one of our members is
important.

You see, the group that I have founded is meant to be a friendly and
supportive group. This is not a place for "scoring points" and trying
to win arguments or offending other members. Even though people may
always disagree with each other, this should not be a group where
members are constantly trying to win arguments with each other and
putting each other down. Rather, this is meant to be a constructive
and productive group.

I hope that you all continue to feel confident to ask questions,
express opinions, and discuss alternative interpretations of history
without the fear of being dismissed or put down. This is an area in
which we are all learning, especially me, and I have already learned
so much from all of you. Let's keep it going and growing the right
way.

Respectfully,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia


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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

John Roy-Wojciechowski
Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
e-mail polish@... website www.polishheritage.co.nz

Stefan you are doing special work, please continue
Janek

On 22 Oct 2001, at 1:21, Stefan Wisniowski wrote:

Dear group members,

Last month I founded this list and invited you all to join in a common
cause - which is that of the Polish citizens from Kresy deported by
the Soviets during the war. Nearly 50 people are now members, which
is wonderful, and new requests to join are coming in each week.

When I started this list, I did so with some hesitation because I was
warned that the role of owner and moderator would take a fair bit of
time. However, I did it because nobody else was and I believe in the
importance of this cause.

A major responsibility of a list owner and moderator is to maintain a
positive and constructive dialogue in the group. Recently, there has
been as emerging tone in some of the discussions that was starting to
denigrate the contributions of other members. I knew that, if allowed
to continue, this would discourage the open sharing of views which is
essential to making this thing work. Eventually, good people would
leave the group.

Accordingly, I have temporarily suspended one group member pending
their commitment to respect a more civil approach to these
discussions. I took this step after much reflection, because I
believe that the contributions of every one of our members is
important.

You see, the group that I have founded is meant to be a friendly and
supportive group. This is not a place for "scoring points" and trying
to win arguments or offending other members. Even though people may
always disagree with each other, this should not be a group where
members are constantly trying to win arguments with each other and
putting each other down. Rather, this is meant to be a constructive
and productive group.

I hope that you all continue to feel confident to ask questions,
express opinions, and discuss alternative interpretations of history
without the fear of being dismissed or put down. This is an area in
which we are all learning, especially me, and I have already learned
so much from all of you. Let's keep it going and growing the right
way.

Respectfully,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE
CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial

---------------------------------------------------------------------~
->

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

John Roy-Wojciechowski
Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
e-mail polish@... website www.polishheritage.co.nz

Dear group members,

Last month I founded this list and invited you all to join in a common cause
- which is that of the Polish citizens from Kresy deported by the Soviets
during the war. Nearly 50 people are now members, which is wonderful, and
new requests to join are coming in each week.

When I started this list, I did so with some hesitation because I was warned
that the role of owner and moderator would take a fair bit of time.
However, I did it because nobody else was and I believe in the importance of
this cause.

A major responsibility of a list owner and moderator is to maintain a
positive and constructive dialogue in the group. Recently, there has been
as emerging tone in some of the discussions that was starting to denigrate
the contributions of other members. I knew that, if allowed to continue,
this would discourage the open sharing of views which is essential to making
this thing work. Eventually, good people would leave the group.

Accordingly, I have temporarily suspended one group member pending their
commitment to respect a more civil approach to these discussions. I took
this step after much reflection, because I believe that the contributions of
every one of our members is important.

You see, the group that I have founded is meant to be a friendly and
supportive group. This is not a place for "scoring points" and trying to
win arguments or offending other members. Even though people may always
disagree with each other, this should not be a group where members are
constantly trying to win arguments with each other and putting each other
down. Rather, this is meant to be a constructive and productive group.

I hope that you all continue to feel confident to ask questions, express
opinions, and discuss alternative interpretations of history without the
fear of being dismissed or put down. This is an area in which we are all
learning, especially me, and I have already learned so much from all of you.
Let's keep it going and growing the right way.

Respectfully,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

Let's straightehn out the nonsense
There was no Israeli Army nor Israel in 1942. The Polish army left USSR
late in 1942 and went to Iraq.
Large scale fighting between Jews and Arabs in PALESTINE starterd at the
end of WWII (1944-45). Israel came into being in 1948. Deserter Begin headed
one of the Jewish terrorist organisations - I think it was Irgun.
2000 Jews deserted the Polish army- this is 2.8%. A small number
remained. The Polish Army Command did not pursue the deserters. The British
were unhappy about this.
Edward

Grace, thanks for your thoughtful reply.

We are united in our desire to do something, but are looking for the best
strategy to get it done.

I have suggested getting on the radar screen at America's only official
shrine to the genocide of WW2 that I am aware of. While it does not require
that the survivors be Jewish to qualify, the Museum certainly has an
overwhelming Jewish flavour to it - and I understand that, at least in the
past, it has included exhibits that did not flatter the Polish people. For
example, it refers to the Polish Pogrom in Kielce on 4 July 1946 - even
though most histories I have read concede that this was staged by Soviet
authorities.

So it may be a flawed institution, and if it is only for Jews, then we
should obviously not register non-Jewish family there. I think we should
probably investigate this a bit more. I welcome other opinions.

Also, I may not be aware of other possible institutions where we could
better accomplish our aims. I am open to alternate suggestions on how to
get recognition for our families' and our country's suffering - and here I
am talking about PR - Public Relations - something the Poles don't seem to
have been too proficient at in the past.

But I do know that as long as we do not stand up for ourselves and tell our
stories, we will be relegated to being forgotten victims or, worse, perhaps
suspected as sympathisers or even collaborators in the tragedies of World
War 2.

For example, when you look at the listings of Nazi victims, Jews, Gypsies,
Jehovah's Witnesses and homosexuals are all listed as target groups. The 3
million Christian Poles who lost their lives and the deliberate actions of
both the Nazis and the Soviets to exterminate Polish leadership under their
September 1939 accord do not rate a mention.

In fact, some people in this discussion group are of the opinion that the
persecution of the Poles from the eastern Borders has no relationship with
the Nazis and we should stop referring to that side of the war on Poland.
However, the 1939 Soviet invasion was enabled by an alliance with the Nazis.
The Germans committed atrocities in Lwów and eastern Poland during the war.
I think there is a relationship worth exploring after all.

I thank all members of the group for keeping this discussion collaborative
and cordial.

Regards,
Stefan Wisniowski