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Dear Nadia,

?

My mother's family were sent to a camp near? Kotlas, so I have also been interested in Kotlas for a long time.

?

Here are are few?links to start you off.

?

?

Kotlas and the Gulag:

?

?

Stories of Poles who were sent to Kotlas:

?

?

Waterville is the sister city of Kotlas. Their site has many interesting links to Kotlas, including slide shows, history of the region and the Gulag history. Their site is:

?

?

?

Best Wishes,

?

Ryszard Antolak

?

?

Re:Kotlas Siberia anyone?
All I know about Kotlas is that seems to be the main Railway link to the
Arctic region and all those going to camps or leaving camps by rail had to
pass through Kotlas. I would be interested to know more.
Sheila

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Kresy-Siberia
group.

File : /Personal_testimonies/Helon Family Arrest.rtf
Uploaded by : ghelon <george@...>
Description : An account of the arrest of the Helon family formerly of Krzywe and Pawlow near Radziechow

You can access this file at the URL



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit



Regards,

ghelon <george@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Kresy-Siberia
group.

File : /Helon Family Arrest.rtf
Uploaded by : ghelon <george@...>
Description : An account of the arrest of the Helon family formerly of Krzywe and Pawlow near Radziechow

You can access this file at the URL



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit



Regards,

ghelon <george@...>

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Please welcome Gabriel Damaszk to the group.

Gabriel, you should be able to get many answers to your questions about your
grandfather, Wiktor Damaszk , by writing to the Ministry of Defense, which
holds all the records of the Polish armed forces in exile. ?Find
instructions on our website at
http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/reference.html

Many Polish men were conscripted into the German army, and many escaped to
join Anders Army - quite a number "across the front lines" in Italy. ?
Perhaps this is how your father went across?

In any case, please let us know what you discover in your research....

Regards,
Stefan Wisniowski

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Dear Barney,
Thanks for asking. My grandfather died of dysentery (czerwonka) in
Kazakstan and was buried in a mass grave with others from the Polish
population who were in that part of the former USSR looking for the Polish
army. My oldest sister died of starvation and exposure in Arkangelsk at
the camp where the family was initially sent by the Soviets. My mother,
father, grandmother and another sister who was born in the USSR survived
and left that god forsaken part of the world with Anders army. Dad went on
to join the 2nd Corp and my sister, mother and grandmother went to So.
Africa then to England where they were rejoined by my father in 1948.
Another child (my brother) was born in England before the folks emigrated
to the states in 1951. I was born in New Jersey in 1952.
Rich Widerynski

[Original Message]
From: berndd11222 <berndd11222@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Date: 9/28/2003 5:13:53 PM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Those that got left behind

Hi Rich

What was the fate of your grandfather? Did he remain in the USSR?


Barney Dombrowski


--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Richard Widerynski"
<richpna@e...> wrote:

Dear Barney,
My family ended up in Kazakstan after their release from their

Arkangelsk. They got there via train a trip they funded by selling
some of their remaining belongings that had survived the camp they
had been in. In an effort to find the Polish army, which was the key
to many a families survival, my grandfather rented a camel and went
out in search of its location. Obviously he was unsuccessful he was
in territory three times the size of Texas. The Poles who had been
taken prisoner by the Soviets wanted nothing more than to leave that
barbaric country. There was no question. Even many prewar
communists from Poland who had escaped to Russia in the wake of the
German invasion quickly realized that they had been duped by Soviet
propaganda and they wanted out as well. It was a miserable place to
be and an awful situation to be in if you were Polish.

Rich Widerynski


----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: 9/24/2003 12:15:11 PM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Those that got left behind


Barney -

I think the reasons why they were left behind are all you wrote and

more. Sometimes they literally "missed the boat." It took them so
long to reach Southern Russia that the last boat had left, and these
poor people were out of luck. Eventually relations between the USSR
and the Polish Government in Exile became strained, and some of the
remaining Poles were prevented from leaving the USSR. The USSR
abruptly stopped the amnesty.

On the other hand, many wanted to return to Poland and did so

voluntarily. Others decided to stay in the USSR for whatever
reason. There were also orphans who may be living in the former USSR
to this day who do not know they are Polish.

As time wore on, many were pressured into staying or returning to

Poland. There are many different scenarios.

Eve Jankowicz
USA

Can anybody in the group offer some insight for the reasons why

some were left behind. Were they refused permission to leave by
local officials? or did they voluntarily stay in the USSR? Maybe
they were never told of the transfer option?

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"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish

citizens

deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War

Two."

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Gallery (photos, documents) :

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"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish

citizens

deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."

*

Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :

*

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Hi Julek

What are the books you refer to? I would be interested in
reading them.

Barney Dombrowski


--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Julian S. Plowy"
<julian_plowy@e...> wrote:

Barney,

One reason that I read about from a personal book written by one of

the

refugees is that many did not have any money, or any items to trade

in order

to be taken out of Russia on sleds during the winter or spring

months.

Some got money or items to trade through the mail from families

back in

Poland or other countries. Those that were lucky and received some

mail

during their stay were able to pay for their trip out of that God

forsaken

place.

Even those that were able to pay died along the way or were

separated along

the way. Many died for lack of food during a 3-4 week trip on the

train to

Iran. Some were separated and put into slave camps in other

countries.

I have received and read a few books written by Polish refugees

that were in

Santa Rosa. Each personal tragedy was beyond belief. Each person

survived

with faith in God and personal will. Many lost most if not all of

their

families. None lost hope.

I would guess that none choose to stay in Russia from their own

free will.

Julek

-----Original Message-----
From: berndd11222 [mailto:berndd11222@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 9:40 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Those that got left behind


Not all Poles in the USSR left during the organized transfer of
1944-1947. 1.5 Million went back to Poland but about 700,000 stayed
on in the USSR. The Soviet census of 1959 confirms their survival.
Can anybody in the group offer some insight for the reasons why
some were left behind. Were they refused permission to leave by
local officials? or did they voluntarily stay in the USSR? Maybe
they were never told of the transfer option?

Barney Dombrowski

*

KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish

citizens

deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War

Two."

*

Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :

Film and info :

*

To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...

*

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

Hi Rich

What was the fate of your grandfather? Did he remain in the USSR?


Barney Dombrowski


--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Richard Widerynski"
<richpna@e...> wrote:

Dear Barney,
My family ended up in Kazakstan after their release from their

Arkangelsk. They got there via train a trip they funded by selling
some of their remaining belongings that had survived the camp they
had been in. In an effort to find the Polish army, which was the key
to many a families survival, my grandfather rented a camel and went
out in search of its location. Obviously he was unsuccessful he was
in territory three times the size of Texas. The Poles who had been
taken prisoner by the Soviets wanted nothing more than to leave that
barbaric country. There was no question. Even many prewar
communists from Poland who had escaped to Russia in the wake of the
German invasion quickly realized that they had been duped by Soviet
propaganda and they wanted out as well. It was a miserable place to
be and an awful situation to be in if you were Polish.

Rich Widerynski


----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: 9/24/2003 12:15:11 PM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Those that got left behind


Barney -

I think the reasons why they were left behind are all you wrote and

more. Sometimes they literally "missed the boat." It took them so
long to reach Southern Russia that the last boat had left, and these
poor people were out of luck. Eventually relations between the USSR
and the Polish Government in Exile became strained, and some of the
remaining Poles were prevented from leaving the USSR. The USSR
abruptly stopped the amnesty.

On the other hand, many wanted to return to Poland and did so

voluntarily. Others decided to stay in the USSR for whatever
reason. There were also orphans who may be living in the former USSR
to this day who do not know they are Polish.

As time wore on, many were pressured into staying or returning to

Poland. There are many different scenarios.

Eve Jankowicz
USA

Can anybody in the group offer some insight for the reasons why

some were left behind. Were they refused permission to leave by
local officials? or did they voluntarily stay in the USSR? Maybe
they were never told of the transfer option?

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

*

KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish

citizens

deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War

Two."

*

Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :

Film and info :

*

To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...

*

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hi Barbara

My father who was born in the US had general knowledge about the
plight of Poland the war. But I do remember him
mentioning that the quota was tiny for Polish people. If we had
a larger quota I am sure more Poles would have come here.
When my fathers grandparents came here in 1886 and 1891 there was
an open door policy. That ended in 1924.





--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., b.davoust@f... wrote:

Some

chose to return to Poland after the war, don't forget.

Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
USA
>
Yes, some chose to return, but there was also a lot of pressure

from the British telling people to

"go back and rebuild your country". I remember my mother telling

me this. This

went on for a while, since she said that one of the British

officers who was teaching

them English (perhaps in Palestine? I would have to check) had been

to Poland after

the war and told her and others what awful conditions there were

and that the new

Polish government was not favourable to those who had left the

country.

Barbara Davoust
Toulouse, France

Hi Eve

In 1945 the Soviets and their Polish allies in Lublin signed
an agreement to exchange populations. 1.5 Million Poles left
the USSR by 1947. A second transfer of 245,000 Poles occured in 1955-
57.
Two years later in 1959 the Soviet census shows at least 700,000 Poles
from Kresy remaining in the USSR. These are the Poles I am referring
to.

Barney Dombrowski





--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Eve5J@a... wrote:

As unbelievable as it sounds to us all, some people, not many I am

sure,

willingly decided to stay in various areas of the USSR. As we've

discussed on

this list before, there were many extremely difficult decisions to

be made at the

time.

It is true also that the deportees had to go south with their own

funds and

by their own wiles. They had to fund this trip themselves. It did

take a very

long time which is why some "missed the boat," as I said in my post

of

yesterday.

Those that finally reached freedom in Iran still had many difficult

decisions

to make after the war, such as which country they would make their

final

home. (I'm not mentioning the difficulties of specific countries

willing to take

refugees either.) Some chose to return to Poland after the war,

don't forget.

Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
USA

Yes, dzidzia is for baby girl and dzidziu would be baby boy. My oldest
brother was called synus' (little son) for many years!!
Elzunia Olsson
Sweden



Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:32:49 -0400
From: "J Eddis" <eddis_top@...>
Subject: Re: Dzidzia / Dzidziu

My husband, Aleksander Topolski, was the youngest child in his family, ie
"the baby" and so was nicknamed Dzidziu which, as Barbara Davoust pointed
out, means baby. That nickname stuck to him even into the Polish army which
he joined in Uzbekistan after being released from a northern GULAG camp. He
always resented being called "Baby" but still can't escape it when he meets
his sisters and old-time friends.
Joan

While we're talking about trips to Kresy .....for the benefit of new
members:

I travelled from Sweden to Ukraine in October 1996. On a humanitarian aid
trip, in a bus loaded with clothes and food etc heading for Kiev we stopped
in Rivno on the way. We stayed over at the Polish Catholic Church there and
the priest took me out to the site of osada Krechowiecka (Wolyn). It's quite
amazing because out of the original 134 houses, a school, church and medical
centre the only building left standing - is my mother's!! They have built
a pig-farm on the site of the Church! The land was just being used for
grazing cattle. We talked to the old Ukrainian woman who was living in 2
rooms of the house (very poor, but she did have a couple of TVs! no
electricity at the time, but still) After the war she had been forced to
move from Poland back to Ukraine by the Russians, they wanted to keep people
in the "right" areas. She said that she would have been better off if she'd
stayed in Poland.

I was only there for a short time but luckily my mother and her brother had
also been there a year earlier for the first time since the war and
video-filmed it. The priest said that no one was cultivating the land
because they didn't know who the land now belonged to, nor did they have the
necessary tools or seeds or machinery, or spare parts to fix what little
they did have. This is really a shame and a waste considering that the soil
around there is very fertile, in a country of starving people!

Before I went to Ukraine I was given many warnings about the thieves and all
the criminality there - dress simply, take off jewelry and expensive watches
etc etc! Don't travel alone...hide your cash in different places.... But
when I was there, we managed to survive without any nasty experiences,
didn't see any either. Driving flashy cars is rather asking for trouble of
course, my Mother was going to a wedding and had an English wedding cake
with her - which was stolen (both the car, . and the cake which had been
packed into a video carton!)

They have quite a large, active Polish community in Rivno - with a Polish
church and a Polish school. The Church is being renovated - it had been used
as a factory, and a sports hall among other things. There is of course a
whole lot more I could say about this trip but this is getting long already.
It was certainly an "experience" and in some ways the worst 10 days of my
life: we were constantly hungry and cold, water and electricity were only
available certain hours of the day - imagine getting up in the morning to
a freezing cold, dark room, with no water to brush your teeth or to flush
the toilet!! People were very hospitable and offered us whatever little food
they had. At one church we visited, only us visitors were given one small
sandwich and the thinnest slice of cake Id ever seen, like inch. Talk
about the widows mite!!

Elzunia Olsson
Sweden

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Please remove me from the email list...
and just send me special announcements if possible.
There are just too many messages daily and it is
clogging up my system...thanks
Nina Szlosberg

Stefan Wisniowski wrote:

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