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Re: Welcome Orest Zborowski
Witamy Orest Zborowski!? Welcome to the Group!
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Sr. Christine Marie
Enfield, Ct.
U.S.A.
Stefan Wisniowski wrote: Please Welcome Orest Zborowski to the group. ?Orest is a Pole living in the Ukraine, and found me on the web as he lives in Kalusz (near old Stanislawow now Ivano-Frankivsk), where my grandfather was born. Do you Yahoo!? - with improved product search |
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Welcome Orest Zborowski
Stefan Wisniowski
Please Welcome Orest Zborowski to the group. ?Orest is a Pole living in the Ukraine, and found me on the web as he lives in Kalusz (near old Stanislawow now Ivano-Frankivsk), where my grandfather was born.
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Orest it is wonderful having a Polish member still in the former Kresy. Witamy! Stefan Wisniowski ---------- Dzien dobry panie Stefanie! |
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Re: Those that got left behind
Some
chose to return to Poland after the war, don't forget."go back and rebuild your country". I remember my mother telling me this. This went on for a while, since she said that one of the British officers who was teaching them English (perhaps in Palestine? I would have to check) had been to Poland after the war and told her and others what awful conditions there were and that the new Polish government was not favourable to those who had left the country. Barbara Davoust Toulouse, France |
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Return to Ukraine
Mark
开云体育Hello Group,
?
In gathering the last set of photos from my mother
last night.(which I will sent the entire collection to Julian for downloading),
I mentioned to her the experiences of Halina's visit to the Ukraine. I basically
re-quoted some of the statements made in the story by Halina, and mentioned how
interesting it would be for her to get together with all interested to re-visit
that region.? She made quite an interesting point that I'm sure many may
agree.? She mentioned that she would not install that horrific time upon
anyone and does not desire to go back to those super-poor conditions.?
"Take me somewhere beautiful", she mentioned..let's go forward. I guess for me
as her son, I may find it interesting, but I can also understand the "survivors'
" feeling towards re-visiting that era, especially since much hasn't changed
since the 40's...... Nevertheless, congratulations to Halina for a wonderful
journey!!!
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Regards all!!
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Mark Kusiewicz
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Re: To all members who write "Please remove me" to the list...
Nina Szlosberg
Please remove me from the list...but keep me on special mailings...
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Thanks Stefan Wisniowski wrote: Dear friends |
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Re: Names (Dzidzia)
Bob, Elzunia,
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Until reading your posts, I always thought Dzidzia was an endearing form of the name Zdzislawa, which is my cousin's name.? In my family we have always called her, using phonetic American English, "Geeja."? In fact my aunts still call her this.? She is the first born in her family and came to the US in the sixties with the rest of her family.? When she became a citizen, she changed her first name to Gigi.? I think my cousin's name has every Polish name we've discussed recently beat by a mile!? Looking in my book of Polish first names, I see that the diminutive of her name is:? Zdzisia, which is similar sounding (?) but I now think we have been calling her Dzidzia all these years.? I will ask her.? I have another cousin named Elzbieta who was born at Penley and came here as a baby.? When I was a very young child I called her, phonetically "Do-she."? I have no idea what I was trying to say with that child pronunciation!? Eve Jankowicz USA ???? The same thing happened in my family.? My older sister, Lucy, has |
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Re: Those that got left behind
As unbelievable as it sounds to us all, some people, not many I am sure, willingly decided to stay in various areas of the USSR.? As we've discussed on this list before, there were many extremely difficult decisions to be made at the time.?
It is true also that the deportees had to go south with their own funds and by their own wiles.? They had to fund this trip themselves.? It did take a very long time which is why some "missed the boat," as I said in my post of yesterday. Those that finally reached freedom in Iran still had many difficult decisions to make after the war, such as which country they would make their final home.? (I'm not mentioning the difficulties of specific countries willing to take refugees either.)? Some chose to return to Poland after the war, don't forget. Eve Jesionka Jankowicz USA??? |
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More photos from Tomek
Stefan Wisniowski
Tomy continues to add to the rich collection of pre-war and war-time photos in our gallery.
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Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/ Stefan Wisniowski ---------- |
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Re: Those that got left behind
Julian S. Plowy
Barney,
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One reason that I read about from a personal book written by one of the refugees is that many did not have any money, or any items to trade in order to be taken out of Russia on sleds during the winter or spring months. Some got money or items to trade through the mail from families back in Poland or other countries. Those that were lucky and received some mail during their stay were able to pay for their trip out of that God forsaken place. Even those that were able to pay died along the way or were separated along the way. Many died for lack of food during a 3-4 week trip on the train to Iran. Some were separated and put into slave camps in other countries. I have received and read a few books written by Polish refugees that were in Santa Rosa. Each personal tragedy was beyond belief. Each person survived with faith in God and personal will. Many lost most if not all of their families. None lost hope. I would guess that none choose to stay in Russia from their own free will. Julek -----Original Message-----
From: berndd11222 [mailto:berndd11222@...] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 9:40 AM To: Kresy-Siberia@... Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Those that got left behind Not all Poles in the USSR left during the organized transfer of 1944-1947. 1.5 Million went back to Poland but about 700,000 stayed on in the USSR. The Soviet census of 1959 confirms their survival. Can anybody in the group offer some insight for the reasons why some were left behind. Were they refused permission to leave by local officials? or did they voluntarily stay in the USSR? Maybe they were never told of the transfer option? Barney Dombrowski * KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two." * Discussion site : Gallery (photos, documents) : Film and info : * To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to: Kresy-Siberia-owner@... * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Re: Those that got left behind
Stefan Wisniowski
Back to Barney's original question, which is kind of on-topic (ie. the consequences of the war deportations etc.)
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Barney, can you share the source of your numbers? ?There is much debate about how many Polish citizens ?were deported to the USSR, how many were in the USSR during the war, how many died, etc. Although Danusia is right that it was not easy for the Poles to leave in 1941-42 with Anders Army, Barney is referring to the post-war period. ?At this time there was a mass relocation of people in a great spasm of ethnic reshuffling to make countries more ethnically homogeneous, as Poland was "marched two paces to the left" and Germans were uprooted from their eastward communities in Poland, eastern Prussia and the USSR that they had established over the previous centuries. ?As a result the previously multi-ethnic and multi-religious Poland became almost 100% Polish ethnicity and Catholic. Specifically: - Germans were 'expelled' ?from the "reclaimed lands" (e.g. Szczecin, Wroclaw) given Poland - Poles were 'relocated' from the Kresy lands given the USSR to western Poland's "reclaimed lands" - Ukrainians were 'relocated' from Poland under Operation Wisla to the Kresy lands given the USSR Some of the moves were forced, others were voluntary. ?The operation to relocate Poles WAS voluntary, but most Poles in the southern Kresy were motivated to leave by the mass killings perpetrated on the Polish population by Ukrainian nationalist forces in 1942-43, and their future prospects in the USSR were not very rosy (those who stayed were forced to adopt Soviet citizenship for keeps). ?What had been their Poland was Poland no longer. The expelled Germans were not treated with much kindness by the Polish authorities and population, largely because they were seen as active supporters of the Nazi regime. ?A number were taken to Polish (communist) concentration camps and some tortured or killed, often by survivors of the Nazi genocide in a sort of revenge. ? And Operation Wisla involved the Polish Army having to raid Ukrainian villages in Poland and drag people out of their homes, and was resisted by some Ukrainians (or Ruthenians or Lemkos etc.) and is considered a crime against humanity to this day by some in the Ukraine. Not a pretty time. ?As for the 700,000 Poles in the USSR, some would have stayed on their ancestral land. ?Some were communists working or studying in the USSR. ?Some were married to locals. ?Some were in jail or labour camps. ?And some were simply on kolkhozes or elsewhere in remote areas out of communication and with no means to get themselves out. ?To this day, there are 2nd and 3rd-generation Polish ethnics throughout the former USSR (Kazakhstan etc.) who would love to 'return' to Poland but have been unable to due to repatriation difficulties on the Polish side. Hope this helps a bit. Stefan Wisniowski Sydney From: berndd11222 |
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Re: Those that got left behind
Richard Widerynski
开云体育Dear Barney,
My family ended up?in Kazakstan after their release from their Arkangelsk.? They got there via?train a trip they?funded by selling some of their remaining belongings that had survived the camp they had been in.??In an effort to find the Polish army, which was the key to many a families survival, my grandfather rented a camel and went out in?search of its location.? Obviously he was unsuccessful he was in territory?three times the size of?Texas.?? The Poles who had been taken prisoner by the Soviets wanted nothing more than to leave that barbaric country.? There was no question.? Even many prewar communists from Poland who had escaped to Russia in the wake of the German invasion?quickly realized?that they had been duped by Soviet propaganda and they wanted out as well.?It was a miserable place to be and an awful situation to be in if you were Polish.
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Rich Widerynski
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Re: Those that got left behind
gary
开云体育Hello Group:
My Father was one of those that joined Anders'
Army, but I always wondered how my Grandmother made it back to Poland? Grandma
was a very strong woman, how she made it back from Siberia alone, and with a
young daughter, it could only be with the help of God.
I have read the book " Goodbye Tomorrow" by
Gryzelda Lachocki, I had to stop reading it several times because it brought
tears to my eyes, A mother all alone except for her children, they had to be
fed, clothe and looked after. But in the end of their trials they had the Polish
Army for help. It makes a person wonder what the people
left behind went through?
?????????????????????????????????????
Gary
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Re: Those that got left behind
Custance.family
开云体育Hi Barney,
?
I'm not an expert, but, from what I've learnt this
year, I don't think anyone would have stayed voluntarily. I think there are
various reasons why so many got left behind. I don't think the Soviet
authorities were very helpful in advising the Poles about the full situation.
I? think?most of them?were not told exactly where to go to find
the Polish army and?I don't think any were actually helped on their exodus
from the USSR. There was a lot of confusion and difficulties in finding
transportation. None of the journeys were easy and many just did not make it to
the right place, at the right time to make that final sea voyage to freedom.
Once the Soviets closed the borders down many would have been trapped and had no
choice but to remain in the USSR. My family were amongst the last ones to
leave...............Thank God! It must have been awful for those that did not
make it.
?
I hope I have given you a true picture of what
happened........please if anyone sees an error in my analysis, I'd like to be
corrected.
?
Dianne
Hitchin, England
?
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Re: Names
Custance.family
开云体育I think Leszek is a lovely name. When I was a little girl I used to
play with a little boy called Leszek in London.......I must ask my uncle what
became of him!
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Dianne
Hitchin, Herts, England
You think you have it tough?? How would you like to be saddled with "Lech".? In North American English it's the short form of "lecher", and in French "lecher" means "to lick". Czesc, Leszek aka Lech aka Kaz Calgary, Alberta (200 miles north of the Montana border for our US associates) |
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Re: Re Sierociniec w Tengeru
Casimir Majewski
Dear Margaret,
In the group of the Polish orphanage in Tengeru camp I was
a friend with Jozek Dubicki.He had one sister Florka Dubicki.
Florka now lifes in Montreal,P.Que. Canada.Jozef Dubicki
died many years ago in Montreal.
Staszek Dubicki could be related to Florka and Jozek.
Let me know if you want to contact Florka.
I can find it for you.
Best regards
Cas Milford, Ct.
Margaret Dubicki wrote: Casimir,? Thank you for answer.? Please,? can you Do you Yahoo!? - Free, easy-to-use web site design software |
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Re: Those that got left behind
Robert Ambros
To add an additional question: Is any organization currently helping
them? --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "berndd11222" <berndd11222@y...> wrote: Not all Poles in the USSR left during the organized transfer of |
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Re: My recent trip to Ukraine
Barb Kwietniowski
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Re: Names
Robert Ambros
The same thing happened in my family. My older sister, Lucy, has
been called dzidia ever since I can remember and her daughter is now married. When I was a child, I thought "Dzidzia" was Polish for "Lucy!" --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Elizabeth Olsson" <elzunia@s...> wrote: All this talk about names got me thinking about mine ...pronounce this (especially with a surname like Gradosielski after it!), so Ibecame Elizabeth, later shortened to Liz.means "little daughter") and Elzunia was also used.my sister's children also call me Dzidzia - so now I am "littledaughter" to a 5 year old!! |
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Re: Polonia Global Fund
Robert Ambros
I believe the Polonia Global Fund and its followers are sensitive to
the goals of the Kresy-Siberia group. When my book, The Brief Sun, won the Writer's Digest award, PGF picked up the press release and ran it on their website. Their posting coincided with a sudden rise in book sales. --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., George Neisser <George.Neisser@m...> wrote: There is an interesting web site at: |
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