Kazahkstan + Polish Army in Switzerland
Grace,
What a treasure trove!
Perhaps I can add a bit to your research.
As you know, after September 1939, the remnants of the Polish government and
army regrouped in France. Andrew Hempel, in "Poland in World War 2 - An
Illustrated Military History", reports that the Second Infantry Fusiliers
Division was deployed near Belfort, near the Swiss frontier. The division
stopped the German army advancing on France at Clos-du-Doubs. But on 19
June 1940, the French were negotiating an armistice with Germany and the
Division followed orders to cross in to neutral Switzerland, where they were
interned for the duration of the war.
Your 3 medals:
Grunwald Berlin 1410 - 1945: this seems to link two Polish victories over
the Germans. In 1410 the Polish Army defeated the powerful Teutonic Knights
("Krzyzacy"). In 1945 the armies entering Berlin included the Polish 1st
Kosciuszko Infantry Division, fighting under the Soviet Red Army.
'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' means "Christmas in Switzerland",
while D.S.P. could mean "Diwizja Strzelecka Piechoty" (sorry, the Polish is
not quite right), which means "Second Infantry Fusiliers". 'Noel Des
Internes En Suisse 1942' means "Christmas of the interned in Switzerland
1942"
Krajowa Rada Narodowa' means "National Council" and "RP - Zwyciestwo:
Wolnos'c 9.V.1945" means "Republic of Poland - Victory: Freedom 9 May
1945".
Regards,
Stefan Wisniowski
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: grace@...
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:09:29 -0000
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Hi All,
Firstly, I have just been trying to decipher some very faded Polish
on the back of an old photograph I have of my grandmother and about
fifty other people (mostly women and children and a few old men) who
I assume lived with her at the camp in Kazakhstan. Unfortunately I
don't read Polish so the message remains a mystery until I find
someone in Singapore who can translate it for me but underneath the
word Kazakhstan there appears to be another name that is perhaps the
name of the camp. It's a little hard to read but it looks something
like K'zibr...t? Yeah right! I guess that's a lot of help. Maybe
the 'z' is a 'g' in which case it would be K'gi...etc. I have checked
out a map of Kazakhstan and found nothing like this word anywhere so
maybe I'm reading it all wrong. One thing I am assuming is that the
camps were built along the railroad. Which would mean that the
existing towns were once camps? Right or wrong?
Now to add some more information to the mystery of the Polish interns
in Switzerland...In a 'Sweizerische Armee' letter I have dated 30-12-
41 it states that my father, Stanislaw Pundyk was a corporal in the
202. Schw.Art.Rgt. 2 Pol.Div. and that he was a chemistry student at
Hochschullager, Winterthur. So, I guess that sets the stage for a
Polish-Swiss agreement. The letter is in German and I've yet to get
it translated.
I have three medals. One is in the shape of a shield, has two swords
on it and the words 'Grunwald Berlin 1410 - 1945'. Another is round
and silverish. On one side it has the Polish Eagle and the
words 'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' and on the other it
says 'Noel Des Internes En Suisse 1942'. And the last medal again has
the Polish emblem and the words 'Krajowa Rada Narodowa' while on the
other side it says 'RP - Zwyciestwo: Wolnos'c 9.V.1945'. Any one want
to explain what they say?
I also have a stack of photographs of Polish soldiers in places such
as Chateau Maurivet, Wassen, Zurich and Winterthur. On the back of
most of the photos my father seems to have identified each of the
soldiers by name. So I guess in many ways I have a piece of Polish
history in my hands. Will keep you posted when I learn more.
Grace
|
Odp: Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Thanks guys,
Your prompt replies, translations and information are much
appreciated. I think Wladyslaw's last message says it all...and not
just about Grodno.
Grace
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
GRODNO"
1795 POLAND
1795-1920 ROSJA
1920-1939 POLAND
1939-1941 USSR
1941-1944 GENMEN
1944 BIELARUS
|
Odp: Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
GRODNO" 1795 POLAND 1795-1920 ROSJA 1920-1939 POLAND 1939-1941 USSR 1941-1944 GENMEN 1944 BIELARUS ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: <Paul.Havers@...> Do: <Kresy-Siberia@...> Wyslano: 17 pazdziernika 2001 16:39 Temat: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
No problem
I made a similar faux pas on another group at 7am
I informed a lister that Grodno is in Lithuania whereas it's in belorus
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
|
Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
No problem
I made a similar faux pas on another group at 7am
I informed a lister that Grodno is in Lithuania whereas it's in belorus
|
Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Dear Paul,
You are absolutely right. It must be late. I read Rada as radosc. Not
very bright
Thanks for your correction
Andy
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: <Paul.Havers@...> To: <Kresy-Siberia@...> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Andy
one error, Rada Narodowa is something similar to a Government, this was
established in post war Poland until "Elections" were called
the "Elections" were slightly one sided in those days as one can imagine
the communists weren't exactly going to let anyone else win
When I was little on one of the trips to Poland(Still in Communist times)
the was a standing joke in regards to elections
1st News announcer; Tomorrow we will hold the local and government
elections
2nd News Announcer; Here are the results of tomorrows elections
Paul
Hi,
The words 'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' can be translated as
"Christmas in Switzerland - D.S.P". I cannot help with the acronym.
'Noel Des Internes En Suisse 1942' is French and means "Christmas for
Interns in Switzerland, 1942".
'Krajowa Rada Narodowa' is Polish and can be translated along the lines of
"Nationwide Joy for our Country". Kraj is usually translated as country
and
Narod as nation. This is a close approximation of the meaning of the
phrase
rather than a literal translation.
'RP - Zwyciestwo: Wolnos'c 9.V.1945'.
RP is an abbreviation for Rzeczypospolita meaning Republic or Comonwealth.
Zwyciestwo means victory
Wolnosc is freedom
9.V.1945 is simply 9 May 1945
I guess the medal commemorated VE day.
I hope this helps.
Andy Kowaluk
----- Original Message -----
From: <grace@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:09 PM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Hi All,
Firstly, I have just been trying to decipher some very faded Polish
on the back of an old photograph I have of my grandmother and about
fifty other people (mostly women and children and a few old men) who
I assume lived with her at the camp in Kazakhstan. Unfortunately I
don't read Polish so the message remains a mystery until I find
someone in Singapore who can translate it for me but underneath the
word Kazakhstan there appears to be another name that is perhaps the
name of the camp. It's a little hard to read but it looks something
like K'zibr...t? Yeah right! I guess that's a lot of help. Maybe
the 'z' is a 'g' in which case it would be K'gi...etc. I have checked
out a map of Kazakhstan and found nothing like this word anywhere so
maybe I'm reading it all wrong. One thing I am assuming is that the
camps were built along the railroad. Which would mean that the
existing towns were once camps? Right or wrong?
Now to add some more information to the mystery of the Polish interns
in Switzerland...In a 'Sweizerische Armee' letter I have dated 30-12-
41 it states that my father, Stanislaw Pundyk was a corporal in the
202. Schw.Art.Rgt. 2 Pol.Div. and that he was a chemistry student at
Hochschullager, Winterthur. So, I guess that sets the stage for a
Polish-Swiss agreement. The letter is in German and I've yet to get
it translated.
I have three medals. One is in the shape of a shield, has two swords
on it and the words 'Grunwald Berlin 1410 - 1945'. Another is round
and silverish. On one side it has the Polish Eagle and the
words 'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' and on the other it
says 'Noel Des Internes En Suisse 1942'. And the last medal again has
the Polish emblem and the words 'Krajowa Rada Narodowa' while on the
other side it says 'RP - Zwyciestwo: Wolnos'c 9.V.1945'. Any one want
to explain what they say?
I also have a stack of photographs of Polish soldiers in places such
as Chateau Maurivet, Wassen, Zurich and Winterthur. On the back of
most of the photos my father seems to have identified each of the
soldiers by name. So I guess in many ways I have a piece of Polish
history in my hands. Will keep you posted when I learn more.
Grace
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
|
Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Andy
one error, Rada Narodowa is something similar to a Government, this was
established in post war Poland until "Elections" were called
the "Elections" were slightly one sided in those days as one can imagine
the communists weren't exactly going to let anyone else win
When I was little on one of the trips to Poland(Still in Communist times)
the was a standing joke in regards to elections
1st News announcer; Tomorrow we will hold the local and government
elections
2nd News Announcer; Here are the results of tomorrows elections
Paul
Hi,
The words 'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' can be translated as
"Christmas in Switzerland - D.S.P". I cannot help with the acronym.
'Noel Des Internes En Suisse 1942' is French and means "Christmas for
Interns in Switzerland, 1942".
'Krajowa Rada Narodowa' is Polish and can be translated along the lines of
"Nationwide Joy for our Country". Kraj is usually translated as country
and
Narod as nation. This is a close approximation of the meaning of the
phrase
rather than a literal translation.
'RP - Zwyciestwo: Wolnos'c 9.V.1945'.
RP is an abbreviation for Rzeczypospolita meaning Republic or Comonwealth.
Zwyciestwo means victory
Wolnosc is freedom
9.V.1945 is simply 9 May 1945
I guess the medal commemorated VE day.
I hope this helps.
Andy Kowaluk
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: <grace@...> To: <Kresy-Siberia@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:09 PM Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: but where in Kazakhstan??? Hi All,
Firstly, I have just been trying to decipher some very faded Polish
on the back of an old photograph I have of my grandmother and about
fifty other people (mostly women and children and a few old men) who
I assume lived with her at the camp in Kazakhstan. Unfortunately I
don't read Polish so the message remains a mystery until I find
someone in Singapore who can translate it for me but underneath the
word Kazakhstan there appears to be another name that is perhaps the
name of the camp. It's a little hard to read but it looks something
like K'zibr...t? Yeah right! I guess that's a lot of help. Maybe
the 'z' is a 'g' in which case it would be K'gi...etc. I have checked
out a map of Kazakhstan and found nothing like this word anywhere so
maybe I'm reading it all wrong. One thing I am assuming is that the
camps were built along the railroad. Which would mean that the
existing towns were once camps? Right or wrong?
Now to add some more information to the mystery of the Polish interns
in Switzerland...In a 'Sweizerische Armee' letter I have dated 30-12-
41 it states that my father, Stanislaw Pundyk was a corporal in the
202. Schw.Art.Rgt. 2 Pol.Div. and that he was a chemistry student at
Hochschullager, Winterthur. So, I guess that sets the stage for a
Polish-Swiss agreement. The letter is in German and I've yet to get
it translated.
I have three medals. One is in the shape of a shield, has two swords
on it and the words 'Grunwald Berlin 1410 - 1945'. Another is round
and silverish. On one side it has the Polish Eagle and the
words 'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' and on the other it
says 'Noel Des Internes En Suisse 1942'. And the last medal again has
the Polish emblem and the words 'Krajowa Rada Narodowa' while on the
other side it says 'RP - Zwyciestwo: Wolnos'c 9.V.1945'. Any one want
to explain what they say?
I also have a stack of photographs of Polish soldiers in places such
as Chateau Maurivet, Wassen, Zurich and Winterthur. On the back of
most of the photos my father seems to have identified each of the
soldiers by name. So I guess in many ways I have a piece of Polish
history in my hands. Will keep you posted when I learn more.
Grace
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP + Research, Remembrance, Recognition +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Websites: + http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Replies to this message will go directly to the full list. + Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to: + Kresy-Siberia-owner@... + saying who you are and your interest in the group +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to: + Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
|
Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Hi,
The words 'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' can be translated as
"Christmas in Switzerland - D.S.P". I cannot help with the acronym.
'Noel Des Internes En Suisse 1942' is French and means "Christmas for
Interns in Switzerland, 1942".
'Krajowa Rada Narodowa' is Polish and can be translated along the lines of
"Nationwide Joy for our Country". Kraj is usually translated as country and
Narod as nation. This is a close approximation of the meaning of the phrase
rather than a literal translation.
'RP - Zwyciestwo: Wolnos'c 9.V.1945'.
RP is an abbreviation for Rzeczypospolita meaning Republic or Comonwealth.
Zwyciestwo means victory
Wolnosc is freedom
9.V.1945 is simply 9 May 1945
I guess the medal commemorated VE day.
I hope this helps.
Andy Kowaluk
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: <grace@...> To: <Kresy-Siberia@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:09 PM Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: but where in Kazakhstan??? Hi All,
Firstly, I have just been trying to decipher some very faded Polish
on the back of an old photograph I have of my grandmother and about
fifty other people (mostly women and children and a few old men) who
I assume lived with her at the camp in Kazakhstan. Unfortunately I
don't read Polish so the message remains a mystery until I find
someone in Singapore who can translate it for me but underneath the
word Kazakhstan there appears to be another name that is perhaps the
name of the camp. It's a little hard to read but it looks something
like K'zibr...t? Yeah right! I guess that's a lot of help. Maybe
the 'z' is a 'g' in which case it would be K'gi...etc. I have checked
out a map of Kazakhstan and found nothing like this word anywhere so
maybe I'm reading it all wrong. One thing I am assuming is that the
camps were built along the railroad. Which would mean that the
existing towns were once camps? Right or wrong?
Now to add some more information to the mystery of the Polish interns
in Switzerland...In a 'Sweizerische Armee' letter I have dated 30-12-
41 it states that my father, Stanislaw Pundyk was a corporal in the
202. Schw.Art.Rgt. 2 Pol.Div. and that he was a chemistry student at
Hochschullager, Winterthur. So, I guess that sets the stage for a
Polish-Swiss agreement. The letter is in German and I've yet to get
it translated.
I have three medals. One is in the shape of a shield, has two swords
on it and the words 'Grunwald Berlin 1410 - 1945'. Another is round
and silverish. On one side it has the Polish Eagle and the
words 'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' and on the other it
says 'Noel Des Internes En Suisse 1942'. And the last medal again has
the Polish emblem and the words 'Krajowa Rada Narodowa' while on the
other side it says 'RP - Zwyciestwo: Wolnos'c 9.V.1945'. Any one want
to explain what they say?
I also have a stack of photographs of Polish soldiers in places such
as Chateau Maurivet, Wassen, Zurich and Winterthur. On the back of
most of the photos my father seems to have identified each of the
soldiers by name. So I guess in many ways I have a piece of Polish
history in my hands. Will keep you posted when I learn more.
Grace
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
|
Hello Krystine,
Thanks for your support.
The Holocaust Museum is for the victims and for the survivors.
The Registry of Survivors at the Museum is a special program which itself is
only for those who survived (ie. did not die before the end of the war). As
I understand it, the purpose of this registry was to recognise the people
who were persecuted but managed to survive, and also perhaps to act as a
kind of "finding" service tracing the whereabouts of the people who survived
and were dispersed around the world.
So in short, even if they are no longer alive now, anybody who lived through
the war and were persecuted as described in my e-mail qualifies for
registration. This would include all of "The Invited" children (and their
guardians) who came to New Zealand after their escape from the Soviet labour
camps.
Regards,
Stefan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: "Krystine Tomaszyk" <tomaszkc@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:26:01 +1300
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS of the War
Stefan,
I do congratulate you on your letter concerning the Holocaust Museum and
especially your rational approach to the subject.
I have only one question. The museum. Is it for the survivors of the
Holocaust or the victims who have perished?
I do not know very much about this mueum and would appreciate clarification.
Regards,
Krystine
----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS of the War
This is in response to the recent exchanges between Ed and Janie, both of
which are well-meaning and both of which are partly right! Ed is right that
the referenced Holocaust Museum website seems to be oriented towards Jewish
survivors. Janie is right that it is open to all survivors of the
Nazi-Soviet alliance.
There are many ways to look at these things, depending where you are coming
from. I am going to make a couple of statements but they are not meant so
much to stimulate a debate, but rather to try to set a tone for this group
and to progress the cause of the eastern Polish victims of Soviet
aggression. Please bear with me and pardon the length of this response.
In general, the Kresy-Siberia group is set up to be a mutually supportive
and collaborative one promoting "Research, Remembrance and Recognition", and
it is REPECTFULLY REQUESTED that members maintain that spirit in order to
retain their membership.
The question that Janie and Ed are debating is whether Polish survivors of
Soviet persecution can and should be recognised and remembered at the
Holocaust Museum in Washington.
First of all it is a fact that they can.
I wrote to them and asked directly if I could register my family who were
persecuted by the Soviets in 1940-42, and they said yes and sent me
registration forms. Here is a quote from their site: "the Registry defines
a Holocaust survivor as anyone who suffered persecutions by Nazis and/or
their allies as a result of the racial, political or ethnic policies from
1933 to 1945 and who survived the end of World War II: camp survivors,
political prisoners, persons in hiding, refugees from territories under rule
of Germany and its allies, as well as evacuees from territories which were
occupied later, etc. Other victims of persecution by the Nazis and their
allies... are also considered survivors"
As you know, the Soviets were the allies of the Nazis in the destruction of
Poland from 1939 to 1941.
Second of all, and here is where I am expressing a personal opinion, I
believe that the Polish survivors SHOULD be registered and recognised at the
Holocaust Museum.
Let me explain why. It is true that the U.S. Holocaust Museum is dominated
by remembrance of Jewish victims. This is not surprising, as the Jews were
a primary target of the Nazi genocide and drove the establishment of the
museum. However, while it is normal to feel it unfair that Polish victims
of the Nazis (and the Soviets) are not recognised in the same way as the
Jewish victims are, the question is what to do about it and how to change
that.
I suggest that the best way to change this is for the Poles to take their
place alongside the other victims and recognise their suffering together,
rather than to avoid the established memorial centres as being "only for the
Jews".
The Holocaust Museum in Washington was set up by the American Government as
THE institution to remember and recognise ALL victims of the Nazis and their
allies. In the absence of a POLISH-ONLY HOLOCAUST MUSEUM, why not take
advantage of the U.S. HOLOCAUST MUSEUM to recognise our families and their
courage to survive the Soviets?
Here's an idea that has fired my imagination!
For the Registry's purposes, anyone displaced by the racial, political and
ethnic policies of the Nazis or their allies who survived until the end of
the war is considered a survivor. The Registry of Holocaust Survivors
currently contains the names of over 115,000 survivors - most in the United
States or Canada, although some from survivors who live in other countries.
Imagine how public opinion would be shaped if we were to register the
names
of the over 100,000 Polish survivors of the Soviet Gulags who escaped
through Persia with General Anders at the Holocaust Museum? Though we
actually have tens of thousands of names and brief histories at the Hoover
Institution, the only catch is that survivors need to fill out the
registration themselves or be registered by their relatives.
Okay, so that let's Irene at the Hoover off the hook! But what if the 50
members of this group registered their own family survivors as a start and
we got the ball rolling on this recognition and remembrance thing? That
would be hundreds of names. There are also spaces for 2nd and 3rd
generation descendants of the Survivors (guys like me).
In short, I would encourage all of us with WW2 Survivors in our families to
take up our rightful place by going to
and getting the form and
registering them. (Forms are even available in Polish!)
If somebody does not want to take up this right and opportunity, of course
that is completely up to them.
Kindest regards,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia
QUOTE FROM www.ushmm.org/museum/council/mission.htm
"The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is America's national
institution for the documentation, study, and interpretation of Holocaust
history, and serves as this country's memorial to the millions of people
murdered during the Holocaust.
The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and
annihilation of European Jewry by Nazi Germany and its collaborators between
1933 and 1945. Jews were the primary victims --- six million were murdered;
Gypsies, the handicapped, and Poles were also targeted for destruction or
decimation for racial, ethnic, or national reasons. Millions more, including
homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Soviet prisoners of war, and political
dissidents also suffered grievous oppression and death under Nazi tyranny.
The Museum's primary mission is to advance and disseminate knowledge about
this unprecedented tragedy; to preserve the memory of those who suffered;
and to encourage its visitors to reflect upon the moral and spiritual
questions raised by the events of the Holocaust as well as their own
responsibilities as citizens of a democracy."
From: "edtar" <edtar@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:34:59 -0400
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Dear Janie, when yoy say they are trying to include everyone you are talking
about the holocaust museum/memorial. If you go to the web you referenced
you
will find it is for Jews. The registry is for the Jews.
I am not a Jew and most if not all Kresy-Siberia members are non Jews
and
further they are mostly Christian Catholic/Orthodox/Unite Poles who
were
deported to the slave labor camps in the USSR or their descendants.
There were
very few Jews deported to Siberia.
By the way, who were the Associates of the Gemans/Nazis????
Edward
--- Original Message -----
From: jmicchelli@...
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Dear Ed,
If you go to the web-site, you will see that they are trying to include
EVERYONE
WHO WAS AFFECTED BY THE NAZIS AND THEIR ASSOCIATES........
THAT INCLUDES MY FAMILY AS WELL AS YOURS..............AND IF THIS IS
THE WAY
TO GET RECOGNIZATION, SO BE IT..........
JANIE
You have your wires crossed.
Holocaust memerial is for Jews who were persecuted by the Germans.
Kresy-Siberia is for all Polish citizens who were deported to Siberia
and
persecuted by the Soviets.
Ed Tarchalski
----- Original Message -----
From: jmicchelli@... To:
":Kresy-Siberia"@yahoogroups.com ; "To:Kresy-Siberia"@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Monday, October 15, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Hi Stefan and other group members,
A few months ago I wrote Stefan, to tell him that I was going to
register
my
family at this site, it is at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC,
I did
so just a few weeks ago, here is a click-on with more information.
They
are
looking to document survivors of the Holocaust (this is not only for
members
of the Jewish community).
Click here: Remembrance | Registry of Holocaust Survivors
<>
The Registry defines a survivor as a person who was displaced,
persecuted,
and/or discriminated against by the racial, religious, ethnic, and
political
policies of the Nazis and their allies. In addition to former inmates
of
concentration camps and ghettos this includes, among others, refugees
and
people in hiding.
Please help us to document survivors who are not yet registered by
passing
on information about this Registry. ---------- I think that a lot of
the
members in this group qualify as survivors, please take a few minutes
and
see if this is something you would do.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND
+ a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
|
Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
It could be a long shot, but have a look along the Trans-Siberian railway
and it's offshoots
there could be something there that might be useful
Paul
|
Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Grace
The 'Grunwald Berlin 1410 - 1945' is a Order grunwaldski a medal given to
soldiers at the end of WWII
I'm not so sure as to the main context of it, i'd have to look at the
description in a book but the main thing about it is
that I think it was given by the Communist Government of Poland
Paul
|
Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Grace
Why not scan in these documents and save on a web site where our members
could have al ook at them, and maybe even translate or guide you
further?
Good luck
John
|
Re: but where in Kazakhstan???
Hi All,
Firstly, I have just been trying to decipher some very faded Polish
on the back of an old photograph I have of my grandmother and about
fifty other people (mostly women and children and a few old men) who
I assume lived with her at the camp in Kazakhstan. Unfortunately I
don't read Polish so the message remains a mystery until I find
someone in Singapore who can translate it for me but underneath the
word Kazakhstan there appears to be another name that is perhaps the
name of the camp. It's a little hard to read but it looks something
like K'zibr...t? Yeah right! I guess that's a lot of help. Maybe
the 'z' is a 'g' in which case it would be K'gi...etc. I have checked
out a map of Kazakhstan and found nothing like this word anywhere so
maybe I'm reading it all wrong. One thing I am assuming is that the
camps were built along the railroad. Which would mean that the
existing towns were once camps? Right or wrong?
Now to add some more information to the mystery of the Polish interns
in Switzerland...In a 'Sweizerische Armee' letter I have dated 30-12-
41 it states that my father, Stanislaw Pundyk was a corporal in the
202. Schw.Art.Rgt. 2 Pol.Div. and that he was a chemistry student at
Hochschullager, Winterthur. So, I guess that sets the stage for a
Polish-Swiss agreement. The letter is in German and I've yet to get
it translated.
I have three medals. One is in the shape of a shield, has two swords
on it and the words 'Grunwald Berlin 1410 - 1945'. Another is round
and silverish. On one side it has the Polish Eagle and the
words 'Boze Narodzenie w Swajcarii - D*S*P' and on the other it
says 'Noel Des Internes En Suisse 1942'. And the last medal again has
the Polish emblem and the words 'Krajowa Rada Narodowa' while on the
other side it says 'RP - Zwyciestwo: Wolnos'c 9.V.1945'. Any one want
to explain what they say?
I also have a stack of photographs of Polish soldiers in places such
as Chateau Maurivet, Wassen, Zurich and Winterthur. On the back of
most of the photos my father seems to have identified each of the
soldiers by name. So I guess in many ways I have a piece of Polish
history in my hands. Will keep you posted when I learn more.
Grace
|
Stefan,
I do congratulate you on your letter concerning the Holocaust Museum and
especially your rational approach to the subject.
I have only one question. The museum. Is it for the survivors of the
Holocaust or the victims who have perished?
I do not know very much about this mueum and would appreciate clarification.
Regards,
Krystine
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...> To: <Kresy-Siberia@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS of the War This is in response to the recent exchanges between Ed and Janie, both of
which are well-meaning and both of which are partly right! Ed is right that the referenced Holocaust Museum website seems to be oriented towards Jewish survivors. Janie is right that it is open to all survivors of the
Nazi-Soviet alliance.
There are many ways to look at these things, depending where you are coming from. I am going to make a couple of statements but they are not meant so
much to stimulate a debate, but rather to try to set a tone for this group
and to progress the cause of the eastern Polish victims of Soviet
aggression. Please bear with me and pardon the length of this response.
In general, the Kresy-Siberia group is set up to be a mutually supportive
and collaborative one promoting "Research, Remembrance and Recognition", and it is REPECTFULLY REQUESTED that members maintain that spirit in order to
retain their membership.
The question that Janie and Ed are debating is whether Polish survivors of
Soviet persecution can and should be recognised and remembered at the
Holocaust Museum in Washington.
First of all it is a fact that they can.
I wrote to them and asked directly if I could register my family who were
persecuted by the Soviets in 1940-42, and they said yes and sent me
registration forms. Here is a quote from their site: "the Registry defines a Holocaust survivor as anyone who suffered persecutions by Nazis and/or
their allies as a result of the racial, political or ethnic policies from
1933 to 1945 and who survived the end of World War II: camp survivors,
political prisoners, persons in hiding, refugees from territories under rule of Germany and its allies, as well as evacuees from territories which were
occupied later, etc. Other victims of persecution by the Nazis and their
allies... are also considered survivors"
As you know, the Soviets were the allies of the Nazis in the destruction of Poland from 1939 to 1941.
Second of all, and here is where I am expressing a personal opinion, I
believe that the Polish survivors SHOULD be registered and recognised at the Holocaust Museum.
Let me explain why. It is true that the U.S. Holocaust Museum is dominated by remembrance of Jewish victims. This is not surprising, as the Jews were a primary target of the Nazi genocide and drove the establishment of the
museum. However, while it is normal to feel it unfair that Polish victims
of the Nazis (and the Soviets) are not recognised in the same way as the
Jewish victims are, the question is what to do about it and how to change
that.
I suggest that the best way to change this is for the Poles to take their
place alongside the other victims and recognise their suffering together,
rather than to avoid the established memorial centres as being "only for the Jews".
The Holocaust Museum in Washington was set up by the American Government as THE institution to remember and recognise ALL victims of the Nazis and their allies. In the absence of a POLISH-ONLY HOLOCAUST MUSEUM, why not take
advantage of the U.S. HOLOCAUST MUSEUM to recognise our families and their
courage to survive the Soviets?
Here's an idea that has fired my imagination!
For the Registry's purposes, anyone displaced by the racial, political and
ethnic policies of the Nazis or their allies who survived until the end of
the war is considered a survivor. The Registry of Holocaust Survivors
currently contains the names of over 115,000 survivors - most in the United States or Canada, although some from survivors who live in other countries.
Imagine how public opinion would be shaped if we were to register the
names of the over 100,000 Polish survivors of the Soviet Gulags who escaped
through Persia with General Anders at the Holocaust Museum? Though we
actually have tens of thousands of names and brief histories at the Hoover
Institution, the only catch is that survivors need to fill out the
registration themselves or be registered by their relatives.
Okay, so that let's Irene at the Hoover off the hook! But what if the 50
members of this group registered their own family survivors as a start and
we got the ball rolling on this recognition and remembrance thing? That
would be hundreds of names. There are also spaces for 2nd and 3rd
generation descendants of the Survivors (guys like me).
In short, I would encourage all of us with WW2 Survivors in our families to take up our rightful place by going to
and getting the form and
registering them. (Forms are even available in Polish!)
If somebody does not want to take up this right and opportunity, of course
that is completely up to them.
Kindest regards,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia
QUOTE FROM www.ushmm.org/museum/council/mission.htm
"The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is America's national
institution for the documentation, study, and interpretation of Holocaust
history, and serves as this country's memorial to the millions of people
murdered during the Holocaust.
The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and
annihilation of European Jewry by Nazi Germany and its collaborators between 1933 and 1945. Jews were the primary victims --- six million were murdered; Gypsies, the handicapped, and Poles were also targeted for destruction or
decimation for racial, ethnic, or national reasons. Millions more, including homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Soviet prisoners of war, and political
dissidents also suffered grievous oppression and death under Nazi tyranny.
The Museum's primary mission is to advance and disseminate knowledge about
this unprecedented tragedy; to preserve the memory of those who suffered;
and to encourage its visitors to reflect upon the moral and spiritual
questions raised by the events of the Holocaust as well as their own
responsibilities as citizens of a democracy."
From: "edtar" <edtar@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:34:59 -0400
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Dear Janie, when yoy say they are trying to include everyone you are talking about the holocaust museum/memorial. If you go to the web you referenced
you will find it is for Jews. The registry is for the Jews.
I am not a Jew and most if not all Kresy-Siberia members are non Jews
and further they are mostly Christian Catholic/Orthodox/Unite Poles who
were deported to the slave labor camps in the USSR or their descendants.
There were very few Jews deported to Siberia.
By the way, who were the Associates of the Gemans/Nazis????
Edward
--- Original Message -----
From: jmicchelli@...
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Dear Ed,
If you go to the web-site, you will see that they are trying to include
EVERYONE
WHO WAS AFFECTED BY THE NAZIS AND THEIR ASSOCIATES........
THAT INCLUDES MY FAMILY AS WELL AS YOURS..............AND IF THIS IS
THE WAY TO GET RECOGNIZATION, SO BE IT..........
JANIE
You have your wires crossed.
Holocaust memerial is for Jews who were persecuted by the Germans.
Kresy-Siberia is for all Polish citizens who were deported to Siberia
and persecuted by the Soviets.
Ed Tarchalski
----- Original Message -----
From: jmicchelli@... To:
":Kresy-Siberia"@yahoogroups.com ; "To:Kresy-Siberia"@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Hi Stefan and other group members,
A few months ago I wrote Stefan, to tell him that I was going to
register my
family at this site, it is at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC,
I did so just a few weeks ago, here is a click-on with more information.
They are
looking to document survivors of the Holocaust (this is not only for
members
of the Jewish community).
Click here: Remembrance | Registry of Holocaust Survivors
<>
The Registry defines a survivor as a person who was displaced,
persecuted, and/or discriminated against by the racial, religious, ethnic, and
political
policies of the Nazis and their allies. In addition to former inmates
of concentration camps and ghettos this includes, among others, refugees
and people in hiding.
Please help us to document survivors who are not yet registered by
passing on information about this Registry. ---------- I think that a lot of
the members in this group qualify as survivors, please take a few minutes
and see if this is something you would do.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND
+ a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
|
Dear List Members,
Just a couple of last comments on the Holocaust Museum. ?As I said I have been in touch with Mr. Joseph Wardzala who has donated documents to the museum. ?I have a few newspaper articles he sent me, that I would be happy to share with those who have question. You can contact me at JMicchelli@...
In one of the articles he makes a very strong statement: ?"If they (Poles involved in the holocaust) don't contact the Holocaust Museum, the history of persecution will not include Polish victims unless witnesses come forth to tell their story." ?He said it will be easy for the museum to distort history due to a lack of testimony by Polish victims. ?Mr. Wardzala urges Polish holocaust victims to write to the museum.
Looking forward to hearing from you, have a great day, :-) ??Janie
|
Re: are there any Australians out there who have/had family in
Hi,
?
My name is Andy Kowaluk.? I am Australian by
birth and live in Hobart Tasmania.? My parents were Polish.? I do not have any connection, but my paternal great
grandparents were deproted to Siberia in the?late 1800s.? My
grandparents met and married there before returning to Poland in 1920.?
There place of exile was near Omsk in Siberia.
?
If I can help let me know.? Equally you might
be able to give me some advice.
?
Andy Kowaluk
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:37
AM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] are there any
Australians out there who have/had family in
Grace
?
You ask 'are there any Australians out there
who have had family in
Kazakhstan?'.? I am not born in Australia but I am now an Australian
citizen and I live in WA.? My father, his mother, grandmother, sister and
brother were all deported to Kazakhstan.? My grandfather was murdered
along with 15,000 other Polish officers at what is collectively known as the
Katy¨½ massacre.
?
At the moment
I am trying to extract from my father, who lives in the UK,?more details
of his experiences.? Thus far he has indicated that his sister has
reminded him of the name of the 'free resettlement camp', but as yet he has to
put this in an e-mail to me.?
?
It is sad to read of others looking for their
history because their fathers or mothers have passed away and, for in many
cases, did not wish to burden their children with a memory they felt best
forgotten.? But I will persevere because, there is a need to commit to
the record this history.? It has proved too convenient to too many to
pretend that?deportations never happened because the Soviet Union was (i)
a socialist paradise and (ii) a staunch ally which therefore could not have
committed the crime of deporting children, women and men?from their homes
to a harsh and hostile land.
?
I will?provide the group more information
as?soon as I receive it.
?
Regards
?
Richard Sochacki?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+??
KRESY-SIBERIA
GROUP????????????????????????????????
+?? Research, Remembrance,
Recognition???????????????????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+???
Websites:? ?
+????????????????????????
www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+???
Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+??? Send e-mails to:?
Kresy-Siberia@...??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+???
To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+???
Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND?
+??? a
message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...?
+???
saying who you are and your interest in the group???
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+?? To
unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:??
+??
Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...?????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your
use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
|
are there any Australians out there who have/had family in
Grace
?
You ask 'are there any Australians out there who have had family in
Kazakhstan?'.? I
am not born in Australia but I am now an Australian citizen and I live in
WA.? My father, his mother, grandmother, sister and brother were all
deported to Kazakhstan.? My grandfather was murdered along with 15,000
other Polish officers at what is collectively known as the Katy¨½
massacre.
?
At the moment I
am trying to extract from my father, who lives in the UK,?more details of
his experiences.? Thus far he has indicated that his sister has reminded
him of the name of the 'free resettlement camp', but as yet he has to put this
in an e-mail to me.?
?
It is sad to read of others looking for their
history because their fathers or mothers have passed away and, for in many
cases, did not wish to burden their children with a memory they felt best
forgotten.? But I will persevere because, there is a need to commit to the
record this history.? It has proved too convenient to too many to pretend
that?deportations never happened because the Soviet Union was (i) a
socialist paradise and (ii) a staunch ally which therefore could not have
committed the crime of deporting children, women and men?from their homes
to a harsh and hostile land.
?
I will?provide the group more information
as?soon as I receive it.
?
Regards
?
Richard Sochacki?
|
This is in response to the recent exchanges between Ed and Janie, both of
which are well-meaning and both of which are partly right! Ed is right that
the referenced Holocaust Museum website seems to be oriented towards Jewish
survivors. Janie is right that it is open to all survivors of the
Nazi-Soviet alliance.
There are many ways to look at these things, depending where you are coming
from. I am going to make a couple of statements but they are not meant so
much to stimulate a debate, but rather to try to set a tone for this group
and to progress the cause of the eastern Polish victims of Soviet
aggression. Please bear with me and pardon the length of this response.
In general, the Kresy-Siberia group is set up to be a mutually supportive
and collaborative one promoting "Research, Remembrance and Recognition", and
it is REPECTFULLY REQUESTED that members maintain that spirit in order to
retain their membership.
The question that Janie and Ed are debating is whether Polish survivors of
Soviet persecution can and should be recognised and remembered at the
Holocaust Museum in Washington.
First of all it is a fact that they can.
I wrote to them and asked directly if I could register my family who were
persecuted by the Soviets in 1940-42, and they said yes and sent me
registration forms. Here is a quote from their site: "the Registry defines
a Holocaust survivor as anyone who suffered persecutions by Nazis and/or
their allies as a result of the racial, political or ethnic policies from
1933 to 1945 and who survived the end of World War II: camp survivors,
political prisoners, persons in hiding, refugees from territories under rule
of Germany and its allies, as well as evacuees from territories which were
occupied later, etc. Other victims of persecution by the Nazis and their
allies... are also considered survivors"
As you know, the Soviets were the allies of the Nazis in the destruction of
Poland from 1939 to 1941.
Second of all, and here is where I am expressing a personal opinion, I
believe that the Polish survivors SHOULD be registered and recognised at the
Holocaust Museum.
Let me explain why. It is true that the U.S. Holocaust Museum is dominated
by remembrance of Jewish victims. This is not surprising, as the Jews were
a primary target of the Nazi genocide and drove the establishment of the
museum. However, while it is normal to feel it unfair that Polish victims
of the Nazis (and the Soviets) are not recognised in the same way as the
Jewish victims are, the question is what to do about it and how to change
that.
I suggest that the best way to change this is for the Poles to take their
place alongside the other victims and recognise their suffering together,
rather than to avoid the established memorial centres as being "only for the
Jews".
The Holocaust Museum in Washington was set up by the American Government as
THE institution to remember and recognise ALL victims of the Nazis and their
allies. In the absence of a POLISH-ONLY HOLOCAUST MUSEUM, why not take
advantage of the U.S. HOLOCAUST MUSEUM to recognise our families and their
courage to survive the Soviets?
Here's an idea that has fired my imagination!
For the Registry's purposes, anyone displaced by the racial, political and
ethnic policies of the Nazis or their allies who survived until the end of
the war is considered a survivor. The Registry of Holocaust Survivors
currently contains the names of over 115,000 survivors - most in the United
States or Canada, although some from survivors who live in other countries.
Imagine how public opinion would be shaped if we were to register the names
of the over 100,000 Polish survivors of the Soviet Gulags who escaped
through Persia with General Anders at the Holocaust Museum? Though we
actually have tens of thousands of names and brief histories at the Hoover
Institution, the only catch is that survivors need to fill out the
registration themselves or be registered by their relatives.
Okay, so that let's Irene at the Hoover off the hook! But what if the 50
members of this group registered their own family survivors as a start and
we got the ball rolling on this recognition and remembrance thing? That
would be hundreds of names. There are also spaces for 2nd and 3rd
generation descendants of the Survivors (guys like me).
In short, I would encourage all of us with WW2 Survivors in our families to
take up our rightful place by going to
and getting the form and
registering them. (Forms are even available in Polish!)
If somebody does not want to take up this right and opportunity, of course
that is completely up to them.
Kindest regards,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia
QUOTE FROM www.ushmm.org/museum/council/mission.htm
"The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is America's national
institution for the documentation, study, and interpretation of Holocaust
history, and serves as this country's memorial to the millions of people
murdered during the Holocaust.
The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and
annihilation of European Jewry by Nazi Germany and its collaborators between
1933 and 1945. Jews were the primary victims --- six million were murdered;
Gypsies, the handicapped, and Poles were also targeted for destruction or
decimation for racial, ethnic, or national reasons. Millions more, including
homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Soviet prisoners of war, and political
dissidents also suffered grievous oppression and death under Nazi tyranny.
The Museum's primary mission is to advance and disseminate knowledge about
this unprecedented tragedy; to preserve the memory of those who suffered;
and to encourage its visitors to reflect upon the moral and spiritual
questions raised by the events of the Holocaust as well as their own
responsibilities as citizens of a democracy."
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: "edtar" <edtar@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:34:59 -0400
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Dear Janie, when yoy say they are trying to include everyone you are talking
about the holocaust museum/memorial. If you go to the web you referenced you
will find it is for Jews. The registry is for the Jews.
I am not a Jew and most if not all Kresy-Siberia members are non Jews and
further they are mostly Christian Catholic/Orthodox/Unite Poles who were
deported to the slave labor camps in the USSR or their descendants. There were
very few Jews deported to Siberia.
By the way, who were the Associates of the Gemans/Nazis????
Edward
--- Original Message -----
From: jmicchelli@...
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Dear Ed,
If you go to the web-site, you will see that they are trying to include
EVERYONE
WHO WAS AFFECTED BY THE NAZIS AND THEIR ASSOCIATES........
THAT INCLUDES MY FAMILY AS WELL AS YOURS..............AND IF THIS IS THE WAY
TO GET RECOGNIZATION, SO BE IT..........
JANIE
You have your wires crossed.
Holocaust memerial is for Jews who were persecuted by the Germans.
Kresy-Siberia is for all Polish citizens who were deported to Siberia and
persecuted by the Soviets.
Ed Tarchalski
----- Original Message -----
From: jmicchelli@... To:
":Kresy-Siberia"@yahoogroups.com ; "To:Kresy-Siberia"@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Monday, October 15, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS
Hi Stefan and other group members,
A few months ago I wrote Stefan, to tell him that I was going to register
my
family at this site, it is at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, I did
so just a few weeks ago, here is a click-on with more information. They
are
looking to document survivors of the Holocaust (this is not only for
members
of the Jewish community).
Click here: Remembrance | Registry of Holocaust Survivors
<>
The Registry defines a survivor as a person who was displaced, persecuted,
and/or discriminated against by the racial, religious, ethnic, and
political
policies of the Nazis and their allies. In addition to former inmates of
concentration camps and ghettos this includes, among others, refugees and
people in hiding.
Please help us to document survivors who are not yet registered by passing
on information about this Registry. ---------- I think that a lot of the
members in this group qualify as survivors, please take a few minutes and
see if this is something you would do.
|
Re: SURVIVORS policy and history
This is a "side response" to Ed's statement about few Polish Jews being
deported by the Soviets.
First, here is some POLICY for the group.
While there are sometimes tensions between certain elements of the Jewish
and Polish communities, the Kresy-Siberia group is not a forum to pursue
this topic. There is no basis in fact for the statement on the ethnic or
religious background of members of the Kresy-Siberia group, which is not
screened for membership on those criteria.
I invite all members to read and remember the mission of the Kresy-Siberia
Group, which is to "bring into contact people from countries around the
world with a special interest in the tragedy of the 1.7 million Polish
citizens of various faiths and ethnicities (Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian,
Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish, etc.) deported from eastern Poland (Kresy) in
1940-42 to special labour camps in Siberia, Kazakhstan and Soviet Asia."
Now for some HISTORY.
Under the Soviets, especially in the Kresy eastern borderlands, while being
Polish was sufficient reason for Soviet persecution, many Jews were also
persecuted because they were seen as threats to the Communist system.
After the 1941 amnesty, the Polish Government-in-Exile in London
investigated the plight of its citizens deported to the USSR and determined
that whilst the largest group of forced deportees was ethnically Polish,
many other Polish citizens were also deported, including land-owning
Ukrainians and Belorussians.
Approximately one-third of all the deportees from Poland to Siberia,
Kazakhstan, etc. were reported by the Polish Government-in-Exile to be
Jewish (that would make it half a million). On the other hand, it is a
fact that a significant proportion of the NKVD officers participating in the
persecutions of Polish citizens were themselves Jewish. If anything,
however, I would think that these facts would prove that being Jewish had
nothing to do with whether a person became a victim or a persecutor under
the Soviet regime.
Ed, is it possible that you (who was there as a young man, while I wasn't)
have formed your impressions because you do not personally remember many
Jews among the deportees? The deportees were scattered amongst hundreds of
far-flung settlements across the USSR - is it possible that not many of the
Jewish deportees did not end up in your settlement?
Furthermore, is it possible that you do not remember many Jewish soldiers in
Anders Army or with the cadets, after your evacuation to Persia?
Unfortunately, most of the Jewish Poles were not able to escape to Persia
with Anders Army. While General Anders issued orders that his Polish Army
was to be completely non-discriminating as to its members ethnic and
religious background, his British sponsors (who were occupying
Palestine/Israel at the time) prohibited armed Jews from being brought in to
the Middle East.
(Note that many Jewish soldiers, like future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem
Begin - slipped out of the USSR with the Polish Army anyway and went on to
form the Irgun anti-British terrorist group and later the Israeli Army after
the Polish Army turned a blind eye to their desertion once they got to
Palestine).
I hope that this note on POLICY and HISTORY helps us to guide our
discussions and keep them on-topic in the future.
Kind regards,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- Original message --- I am not a Jew and most if not all Kresy-Siberia members are non Jews and
further they are mostly Christian Catholic/Orthodox/Unite Poles who were
deported to the slave labor camps in the USSR or their descendants. There were
very few Jews deported to Siberia.
|
Arkhangelsk and Kazakhstan
Special thanks to Alexander for his assistance with these requests. While I asked him if it was okay to share his e-mail, by his response he appears to prefer not to do so at this time, and suggests an alternative process for requests (I know that he is very resource constrained and may not be able to cope with lots of e-mails). Mark, meanwhile it looks like you have "hit the jackpot". I have copied into this e-mail Alexander's attachment about information on the TERECH deportation, which is in Polish. Please let us know if it needs to be translated into English for you. Grace, can you provide any of the required details on Zofia Stratkowska? Meanwhile, I look forward to the deportees database being put up on the web. Some of us work on Macintoshes, and will need to find a way to cope with the Unicode characters (any Mac-heads out there who can assist with this?) -- Stefan Wisniowski Moderator, Kresy-Siberia TERECH:
W banku danych (BD) "Polscy spiecpieriesiele_cy w Archangielskiej oblasti w
latach 1940-41", ? zestawionym przez pracownik¨®w archiwum Urzadu Spraw
Wewnetrznych (USW) Archangielskiej oblasti w ramach umowy z Osrodkiem Badan,
Informacji i Upowszechniania (OBIU) "Memorial" w Moskwie, ? sporzadzonym na
podstawie kart ewidencyjnych w kartotece os¨®b deportowanych w 1940 roku do
Archangielskiej oblasti z zachodnich oblasti Ukrainskiej SRR i Bialoruskiej
SRR i zweryfikowanym wstepnie przez OBIU "Memorial", znajduja sie nastepujace
informacje o czlonkach rodziny Terech:
Terech Stanislaw Iwanowicz, ur. w 1895, z zawodu zdun, Terech Feliksa (tak w
BD) Iwanowna, ur. w 1906 r. i Terech Edimund (tak w BD) Stanislawowicz, ur. w
1923 r., wszyscy troje urodzeni i zamieszkali w Woli Rycerskiej w rejonie
Krzemienieckim Tarnopolskiej oblasti, kategoria spoleczna "osadnik", przybyli
6 marca 1940 do specposiolku Uktym w Lenskim rejonie Archangielskiej oblasti,
zostali zwolnieni 18 wrzesnia 1941 i udali sie do miasta Czistopol w
Tatarskiej ASRR.
Zadne inne osoby o tym nazwisku w BD nie figuruja. ---------- Moskwa, 16.10.2001
Dear Stefan,
Unfortunately, we have no database on Poles in Kazakhstan. The only
completed database on Poles which we have are:
1. Interned in Borovichi (1944-1949);
2. Interned in Stalinogorsk (1944-1949);
3. Interned in Donbas and near Saratov (1945-1949);
4. Imprisoned in camps of Vorkuta region (1939-1956);
5. Deported to Arkhangelsk region (1940-1941) (in preparation to be
published, in cooperation with Center KARTA in Warsaw).
Databases "Borovichi" and "Stalinogorsk" are exposed at our website
www.memo.ru (in Russian).
Three next databases actually are in preparation:
6. Interned in Ostashkov and Ryazan (1944-1949);
7. Deported to Komi (1940-1941) and
8. Deported to Molotov region (1940-1941).
About Zofia Pundyk/Stratkowska: to take up a search in the archives we need
the signed letter to Polish Committee of the "Memorial" Society containing
the maximum information about her - personal data (first name and name at
the time of arrest, first name of her father, year and place of birth),
place of living at the time of arrest, was she deported without sentence and
staying in Kazakhstan as deportee (in what region? - it is the most
important) or was she sentenced and then imprisoned in penal labour camp in
Kazakstan (in what region?), what was her futher fortune? Unfortunately, if
she was deported to Kazakhstan, trere is rather small possibility to find
any document in Kazakhstan archives. But if she was sentenced and imprisoned
in Kazakhstan in penal labour camp (perhaps in Karaganda region), chance is
quite good.
About the E-mail requests to us by members of your "Arkhangelsk group" for
search of their family records:
I think, it will be better, if everybody will have the opportunity to search
in our datebase by himself. For this purpose we will expose this database at
our website in few days. Our computer/internet specialist told me that it
should be no trouble with reading cyryllic characters using fonts of Unicode
format provided by Windows-98. I will inform you immediatly as the database
will be exposed.
In the meantime - I have found the records of Terech's and translated all
the information to Polish.
With best regards - Alexander Gur'yanov
From:??"markt" <markt@...>
Date:? Mon?Oct?15,?2001? 9:16 pm
Subject:? ARCHANGEL
Dear Stefan,
I note from the undermentioned memo mention of Alexander of "Memorial" and
his database which includes details of Archangel.
My father, Edmund Terech and his parents, Stanislaw and Felicja, were
deported to Archangel in Spring 1940
Can you advise how to get in touch with Alexander.
Regards, Mark Terech
|
Hi Edward,
Actually the reference was to the name 'Fuhrer' - not only the title
for Adolf but also the surname of the head of Military History at the
Swiss Military Academy. Thanks for the other information.
Grace
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
What does Hitler have to do with anything??
Edward
|
