Specific to John Ladds, comments on his Yosemite hike, I can verify the issue of hot temps in September.?
Our recently scheduled labor day hike from Kearsarge to OV was canceled due to the fire/smoke. We had a "back-up" plan last week to do the Grand Canyon of Tuolumne starting out of Yosemite Creek, exiting White Wolf. Unfortunately, I have a leg injury that precluded me from doing that back-up hike. My party went ahead with the back-up hike, but reported temps in the mid 90's almost everyday. (no water issues though).
I guess my take-a-way here is that for the higher altitude JMT hikes, I have found September to be great temps wise. This year, water availability is an issue for sure. Personally, any late season hike this year would revolve around proven availability of water. For the Yosemite hike and the lower elevations like the Tuolumne / Glen Aulin area, it's still pretty hot in Sept so kicking those hikes into October makes sense, and water availability is good. Obviously, with winter around the corner, any October hike is contingent on weather conditions.?
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Yes: I'll be intterested to find out why they are scrapping the new system just when they had it (and us) dialled in.
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The permit process sure has come a long way from the old faxing days!?
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Recreation.gov seems to be the way all permits are going, for better or worse. It¡¯s amazing how they build in the rules for each permit, with so many rules out there. If all permits open up at 7:00 AM, I¡¯m not going to know where to start.
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On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 09:42 AM, Sam Molinari wrote:
Go to the Yosemite conservancy website as they handle all wilderness permits.
FYI, next year Yosemite NP is switching to recreation.gov for reserving all wilderness permits.
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Thanks to both of you! We donate to the Conservancy, that is good to know.? I've been to Glen Aulin a number of times, made is as far down as waterwheel falls once.? I certainly would have to do more research on routes, difficulty, etc. Since it's late in the season, going to lower altitudes makes sense.
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Go to the Yosemite conservancy website as they handle all wilderness permits.
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On Sep 13, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Nancy <NancyJ.sierrahike@...> wrote:
?
Yosemite National park website-search for ¡°wilderness permits¡± The process is clear and simple. Do your research on the trails you are considering beforehand.?
On Sep 13, 2021, at 8:19 AM, Charles Fannin <cjzilla@...> wrote:
?John,
That is a great idea. No time in Yosemite is ever wasted.
How does one make backpack reservations for Yosemite?? Can you point us towards a website?
(Hopefully it's not run by Aramark.....)
Chuck Fannin
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Yosemite National park website-search for ¡°wilderness permits¡± The process is clear and simple. Do your research on the trails you are considering beforehand.?
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On Sep 13, 2021, at 8:19 AM, Charles Fannin <cjzilla@...> wrote:
?John,
That is a great idea. No time in Yosemite is ever wasted.
How does one make backpack reservations for Yosemite?? Can you point us towards a website?
(Hopefully it's not run by Aramark.....)
Chuck Fannin
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John,
That is a great idea. No time in Yosemite is ever wasted.
How does one make backpack reservations for Yosemite?? Can you point us towards a website?
(Hopefully it's not run by Aramark.....)
Chuck Fannin
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Re: All National Forest Closures Calif as of today
#Conditions
Sorry for the delay but have been dealing with the FS on a cabin issue. ?Here is what I know about resupply. We resupplied at Tuolumne Meadows (Wilderness Center bear boxes). ?This alternative is still available but the grill has been closed since mid August
and the store closes this week. ?We also resupplied at Red¡¯s and stayed at the Red¡¯s Meadow campground and used the showers, store and cafe. ?You can still pickup a resupply until the end of September but the store, cafe, showers and campground are closed.
?We also resupplied at VVR and did a zero there. ?They have a skeleton crew and are doing resupplies until 10/1. ?Otherwise no services. ?Not certain if MTR is open for resupplies but if they are they don¡¯t have hiker boxes but do have a bucket for the homeless
that hikers ( and a couple living in the woods nearby) where allowed to rummage through. ?Finally, we resupplied at the Charlotte Lake trail junction using Pine Creek pack station. Not certain if the FS is still allowing pack stations to provide this service.
We had originally planned to use the bear boxes at OV and hike over Kearsarge Pass. ?We ran into several people who still intended to use this method after 9/1. ?One person told us she resupplied this way and on the way back in ran into a ranger that gave
her a hard time. ?This is a risky plan since the original order expressly stated in the FAQ that if you left the forest for any reason your trip was done.
All of this may be moot as the Inyo¡¯s position on thruhikers has ¡°evolved¡±. ?I have seen some hikers report that the Inyo is now saying leave the trail at the first available exit point and not your designated exit on your permit. ?My best wishes to anyone
starting or trying to finish their hike as the logistics will continue to be difficult particularly if the closure will be extended beyond the 17th which frankly I expect-at least in part.
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On Sep 9, 2021, at 8:26 AM, Charles Rowan <charlierowan57@...> wrote:
?
Well there you go. Still conflicting. Oy. Thanks, John.
?
[Edited Message Follows]
EDITED to add link:
To further complicate thins, Inyo changed their FAQ recently. It now reads
"What about wilderness trips? Any wilderness permit that originates on the Inyo has been cancelled through September 17th and we are working with our neighboring parks to inform and reroute hikers. Hikers should
not knowingly start or continue a hike into a closed area."
Communication seems to not be a strong point at Inyo
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
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Thank you for taking on what at times must seem like a Royal PIA task
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On Sep 12, 2021, at 9:55 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
?Facing a similar problem last year, I got permits for two back-to-back October lower elevation hikes that stayed within Yosemite NP, avoiding USFS closures
The first entered at Tuolumne Meadow to a Glen Aulin pass-thru on Oct 8 and was planned for 7 days to head down the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne, then up Rodgers Canyon to join the PCT near Smedburg Lake with a planned return to my car on the day before the scheduled road closure (Oct 15). It was originally panned for 10 days but had to be shortened when I realized that I'd miss the road closure date. The 7-day plan proved over my capabilities so I just took my own sweet time just going down the Tuolumne and then back up to White Wolf to hitch back to my car (2nd car picked me up despite the kilt).
October is a great time for the GCOTT as it is too hot for most of the summer and June hiking there can involve some very treacherous stream crossings.
Then a night at the pricy-but-worth-it and then another 5 days leaving from the trailhead near the Mather Ranger Entrance Station NW thru a recovering burn area past Cottonwood Meadow to Smith Meadow area and then with sidetrips to the extent that encroaching buckthorn allowed. In both cases. I would have exited early if bad weather was predicted, but generally they were at low enough elevations that it was not a huge concern. Since I live in San Francisco, I can afford to plan trips that might get cancelled
Fuller description of the Smith Meadow trip at??I don't think I did a write-up of the GCOTT hike
BTW - This group was originally founded by Dan Braun, then the owner of the . He passed ownership (of the group, not the lodge) to me in 2008 or 2009 as he no longer had time/interest for moderation and the group was getting a bit edgy/hostile, as some hiking groups do at times. Roleigh Martin? and I enforced some civility standards by gentle persuasion and the tone of the group improved and evolved to the pretty welcoming place it is today. Roleigh and I parted company some years later, but he was very helpful in improving the tone of the group. He was lead moderator of the Yahoo group for several years after I served in that role for one year.
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--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
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Facing a similar problem last year, I got permits for two back-to-back October lower elevation hikes that stayed within Yosemite NP, avoiding USFS closures The first entered at Tuolumne Meadow to a Glen Aulin pass-thru on Oct 8 and was planned for 7 days to head down the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne, then up Rodgers Canyon to join the PCT near Smedburg Lake with a planned return to my car on the day before the scheduled road closure (Oct 15). It was originally panned for 10 days but had to be shortened when I realized that I'd miss the road closure date. The 7-day plan proved over my capabilities so I just took my own sweet time just going down the Tuolumne and then back up to White Wolf to hitch back to my car (2nd car picked me up despite the kilt). October is a great time for the GCOTT as it is too hot for most of the summer and June hiking there can involve some very treacherous stream crossings. Then a night at the pricy-but-worth-it and then another 5 days leaving from the trailhead near the Mather Ranger Entrance Station NW thru a recovering burn area past Cottonwood Meadow to Smith Meadow area and then with sidetrips to the extent that encroaching buckthorn allowed. In both cases. I would have exited early if bad weather was predicted, but generally they were at low enough elevations that it was not a huge concern. Since I live in San Francisco, I can afford to plan trips that might get cancelled Fuller description of the Smith Meadow trip at? /g/JMT/message/73075?I don't think I did a write-up of the GCOTT hike BTW - This group was originally founded by Dan Braun, then the owner of the . He passed ownership (of the group, not the lodge) to me in 2008 or 2009 as he no longer had time/interest for moderation and the group was getting a bit edgy/hostile, as some hiking groups do at times. Roleigh Martin? and I enforced some civility standards by gentle persuasion and the tone of the group improved and evolved to the pretty welcoming place it is today. Roleigh and I parted company some years later, but he was very helpful in improving the tone of the group. He was lead moderator of the Yahoo group for several years after I served in that role for one year. ? -- John Curran Ladd1616 Castro StreetSan Francisco, CA? 94114-3707415-648-9279
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We have a forest service cabin and are waiting for word on whether there will be an open extension but no word as yet . ?Based on last year don¡¯t expect word before mid week. ?Decision will likely turn on the progress of the Dixie and Caldor fires
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On Sep 11, 2021, at 12:53 PM, backcountry01 <Backcountry01@...> wrote:
?
The forests are still in extreme drought and the emergency/firefighting resources are still stretched to the breaking point...
It would not make sense for them to open up the forests at this time.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...>
Date: 9/11/21 11:45 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [JMT-groups.io] NF Closure Extension? #permits
Inyo National Forest is taking wilderness permit reservations starting on the 18th, the day after the current closure is scheduled to be lifted. Has anyone heard any "word on the street (or trail)" about what the current thinking is for extending the closure
or reopening the forest? ?
I'm not sure how I feel about a possible late season hike (I've never been out in the Sierra Nevada wilderness after the third week of September) but can't help but kicking around the idea of a late season trip, and I'm sure I'm not alone among those who had
to cancel due to the current closure.?
People are reserving the newly released "walk up" permits and some are fully booked like Kearsarge Pass for the 25th, two weeks from today. But a lot of permits are wide open.
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The forests are still in extreme drought and the emergency/firefighting resources are still stretched to the breaking point... It would not make sense for them to open up the forests at this time.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> Date: 9/11/21 11:45 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: [JMT-groups.io] NF Closure Extension? #permits
Inyo National Forest is taking wilderness permit reservations starting on the 18th, the day after the current closure is scheduled to be lifted. Has anyone heard any "word on the street (or trail)" about what the current thinking is for extending the closure or reopening the forest? ? I'm not sure how I feel about a possible late season hike (I've never been out in the Sierra Nevada wilderness after the third week of September) but can't help but kicking around the idea of a late season trip, and I'm sure I'm not alone among those who had to cancel due to the current closure.? People are reserving the newly released "walk up" permits and some are fully booked like Kearsarge Pass for the 25th, two weeks from today. But a lot of permits are wide open.
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Yes, the reservations are listed as available on recreation.gov, but I would not assume this means that the Forest will be open and permits actually available until we hear directly from the Forest, and that may not be until the current order simply expires.? I am finding nothing on the Inyo site one way or the other.
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Inyo National Forest is taking wilderness permit reservations starting on the 18th, the day after the current closure is scheduled to be lifted. Has anyone heard any "word on the street (or trail)" about what the current thinking is for extending the closure or reopening the forest? ?
I'm not sure how I feel about a possible late season hike (I've never been out in the Sierra Nevada wilderness after the third week of September) but can't help but kicking around the idea of a late season trip, and I'm sure I'm not alone among those who had to cancel due to the current closure.?
People are reserving the newly released "walk up" permits and some are fully booked like Kearsarge Pass for the 25th, two weeks from today. But a lot of permits are wide open.
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Re: All National Forest Closures Calif as of today
#Conditions
I totally agree with you. It was really poorly dealt with. I can understand closing campsites and lakes, keeping the party and unconscious people out if they have concerns about fires. But closing backcountry permits makes no sense to me. Someone starts a fire at a campsite they can drive away, backcountry people can't escape the environment and for that reason and just the type of people who tend to go, they are especially careful. I think it was unjustified.
Really sorry for your loss...
On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:24 AM ravi_jmt2013 < ravi@...> wrote:
¡°?I spoke to multiple people who saw rangers after the closure and were encouraged to finish their thru hikes. The website now confirms it. As long as you entered before the closure, happy trails my friends. ¡±
This was handled very poorly in terms of communication and substance. If my entry permit was prohibited, which it was, allowing people to transit through a place like Reds on the same day, which has an obvious and easy exit, seems totally unjust. Then again I admit to being biased and angry at the moment.?
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Re: All National Forest Closures Calif as of today
#Conditions
Well there you go. Still conflicting. Oy. Thanks, John.
?
[Edited Message Follows]
EDITED to add link:
To further complicate thins, Inyo changed their FAQ recently. It now reads
"What about wilderness trips? Any wilderness permit that originates on the Inyo has been cancelled through September 17th and we are working with our neighboring parks to inform and reroute hikers. Hikers should
not knowingly start or continue a hike into a closed area."
Communication seems to not be a strong point at Inyo
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
|
Re: All National Forest Closures Calif as of today
#Conditions
EDITED to add link: To further complicate thins, Inyo changed their FAQ recently. It now reads
"What about wilderness trips? Any wilderness permit that originates on the Inyo has been cancelled through September 17th and we are working with our neighboring parks to inform and reroute hikers. Hikers should not knowingly start or continue a hike into a closed area."
Communication seems to not be a strong point at Inyo
-- John Curran Ladd1616 Castro StreetSan Francisco, CA? 94114-3707415-648-9279
|
Re: All National Forest Closures Calif as of today
#Conditions
I spoke to multiple people who saw rangers after the closure and were encouraged to finish their thru hikes. The website now confirms it. As long as you entered before the closure, happy trails my friends.?
The Sierra National Forest webpage has an FAQ about the closure. It contains this Q&A:
?
¡°What if I am exiting a backpacking trip?
The Sierra National Forest understands that people have trips planned and vehicles staged. This is not an emergency evacuation, but a closure. People should make
an expedient, orderly, and safe completion of their hikes. However, people who are planning hikes and backpacking trip and will enter a closed area should change those plans. Any wilderness permit that originates on the Sierra NF has been cancelled and refunded
through September 17th.¡±
?
While it is too late for me (I ¨C mistakenly, it seems ¨C aborted my SOBO JMT hike at Red¡¯s Meadow on September 1), the phrase, ¡°completion of their hikes,¡± means to me, completion of that
hike for which you have (a still valid) permit.? I think the reference to cancelled permits originating in Sierra NF is to permits to START a hike during the closure. ??
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I think the Forest Service should make it easy for people who left the trail because of the order to get a permit to continue in 2022 where they left off in 2021, and I plan to urge they
do that.
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We just finished our thru hike on Monday and during the last week (after the 8/30 closure), we ran in to a number of rangers, both NPS and FS. We were told the same thing by both types (note that trails in SEKI and YNP are open and you
are permitted to start a? hike from TH within those parks).? As far as the Inyo, a number of Inyo rangers told us the same thing, if you were on the trail prior to August 30, you could proceed to your stated exit point (in our case WP) provided you didn¡¯t
leave the trail for any reason.? Whether this is the official policy or just rangers not wanting to ruin a thru hike remains to be seen.? Last year was a different situation as there was a direct threat to the trail and hikers on it because of the creek fire.?
We were one of many hikers? who were told to exit by the closest trail because of the threat posed by the Creek Fire. This year the closure of the Inyo is more preventive in nature and appears to be related to man power issues.? We met a number of people who
had been permitted to start at Cottonwood on the 8/29 and were told the same thing by Inyo rangers. ???
?
Sent from for Windows
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I was on trail last year. The Rangers were patrolling and it was very clear that we were to leave via the nearest trail
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On Aug 31, 2021, at 8:19 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
?On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 05:32 PM, Lange Jorstad wrote:
Okay, it's official, Regional Order No. 21-07 is now posted here:??
The order is very clear that it prohibits not only starting a new hike but also prohibits being on any Forest Service trail (even with a prior, legal entry)
Last year I know some hikers who thought they were getting "advice" to exit the trail and decided to complete. This year, it is possible that they could get ticketed on exit, particularly at Whitney Portal or Horseshoe Meadow (both exits are on Forest Service
land, not National Park land). In any case if we are a law-abiding community I think we should abide by the rule. It is being issued for VERY good reasons and if we believe that other people should follow rules protecting the wilderness, we can't cut ourselves
special exceptions because our trip is so epic.
?
--
John Curran Ladd
?
415-648-9279
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Will Cronan
ravi_jmt2013
WanderingJim
Charles Fannin
John Ladd