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Re: Power distribution, was: 2-wire, unpolarized outlet ?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Tumbs up, Don.

?

73, Jacques, VE2JFE in Montreal

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de don Root
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 12 janvier 2025 21:25
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] Power distribution, was: 2-wire, unpolarized outlet ?

?

This is unfortunately a continuation of a part of the off-topic stuff that brings down the respect of our forum, but must be done.

Re ??the wording that began in a different topic /g/HallicraftersRadios/message/31466 ?and somehow has been continued in this topic and that continues a dispute is:? ??

¡°Yes, it is known as the Edison split phase system, see:

¡±

I previously glossed over the above wording believing that a comma was just accidentally missing, and knowing people often use loose wording to express difficult stuff, however when looking at the quoted link, I see the following: ?

quote ?????

¡°A split-phase or single-phase three-wire system is a type of distribution. ??It is the (AC) equivalent of the original three-wire ¡± ?

End quote ???and not ¡°Edison split phase system¡±

The term ¡°split-phase¡± is used frequently in the above link , and ?¡°Edison¡± is used twice, but not beside ¡°split-phase¡± or ¡°split phase¡±.

?

Now, Re?? the previously quoted ?

Here is what I see in that quoted text at the top on my bit-machine and screen with my old eyes:

Ask An Electrician - How Does Edison 3 Wire (Split Phase) System Work?

As I see it , [with? added spaces,color, etc ?for clarity ] the area in dispute says :

Edison 3 Wire ???( Split Phase ) ???System. ?

I read that in my grammar as: ?

Edison 3 Wire ???or ???Split Phase ???System ¡­

Which ?means to me that the system can be identified by either ?

  1. ?the term ?¡°Edison 3 Wire¡± ???????

????????or

  1. the term ?¡°Split Phase¡± ??

?????the term ?¡°single-phase three-wire¡± is perhaps more clear ?in a multi-phase environment

And intentionally misquoting it as ?¡°Edison split phase system¡± and then reinforcing it seems to me to be intentionally part of the ¡°misinformation¡± society that is plaguing this side of the world. ?

see

?quote

Misinformation is false or inaccurate information¡ªgetting the facts wrong. Disinformation is false information which is deliberately intended to mislead¡ªintentionally misstating the facts.

The has affected our ability to improve public health, address climate change, maintain a stable democracy, and more. By providing valuable insight into how and why we are likely to believe misinformation and disinformation, psychological science can inform how we protect ourselves against its ill effects.

End quote ???


--
don??? va3drl


Re: Power distribution, was: 2-wire, unpolarized outlet ?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

This is unfortunately a continuation of a part of the off-topic stuff that brings down the respect of our forum, but must be done.

Re ??the wording that began in a different topic /g/HallicraftersRadios/message/31466 ?and somehow has been continued in this topic and that continues a dispute is:? ??

¡°Yes, it is known as the Edison split phase system, see:

¡±

I previously glossed over the above wording believing that a comma was just accidentally missing, and knowing people often use loose wording to express difficult stuff, however when looking at the quoted link, I see the following: ?

quote ?????

¡°A split-phase or single-phase three-wire system is a type of distribution. ??It is the (AC) equivalent of the original three-wire ¡± ?

End quote ???and not ¡°Edison split phase system¡±

The term ¡°split-phase¡± is used frequently in the above link , and ?¡°Edison¡± is used twice, but not beside ¡°split-phase¡± or ¡°split phase¡±.

?

Now, Re?? the previously quoted ?

Here is what I see in that quoted text at the top on my bit-machine and screen with my old eyes:

Ask An Electrician - How Does Edison 3 Wire (Split Phase) System Work?

As I see it , [with? added spaces,color, etc ?for clarity ] the area in dispute says :

Edison 3 Wire ???( Split Phase ) ???System. ?

I read that in my grammar as: ?

Edison 3 Wire ???or ???Split Phase ???System ¡­

Which ?means to me that the system can be identified by either ?

1-? ?the term ?¡°Edison 3 Wire¡± ???????

????????or

2-? the term ?¡°Split Phase¡± ??

?????the term ?¡°single-phase three-wire¡± is perhaps more clear ?in a multi-phase environment

And intentionally misquoting it as ?¡°Edison split phase system¡± and then reinforcing it seems to me to be intentionally part of the ¡°misinformation¡± society that is plaguing this side of the world. ?

see

?quote

Misinformation is false or inaccurate information¡ªgetting the facts wrong. Disinformation is false information which is deliberately intended to mislead¡ªintentionally misstating the facts.

The has affected our ability to improve public health, address climate change, maintain a stable democracy, and more. By providing valuable insight into how and why we are likely to believe misinformation and disinformation, psychological science can inform how we protect ourselves against its ill effects.

End quote ???


--
don??? va3drl


Re: S-38 recapping Query

 

Putting new caps in parallel with old ones serves no purpose,
either for trouble shooting or repair. If the old cap is leaky the
leakage is still there. Just replace it. To do otherwise is just laziness.
Note, sometimes a small value paper or mica caps in parallel with
an electrolytic will allow efficient bypassing of RF. The cap in the
S-38 also shows up in the Echophone EC-1, which is its predecessor.
Electrolytic caps often have very poor ESR at high frequencies allowing
RF on the B+ line to couple between circuits. Both paper and mica caps
have much better performance and both were used for the purpose.


On 1/12/2025 2:18 PM, don Root wrote:
Barry,

Re _Your comment about it might be a replacement for the 0.25_.? Is
the .25 also in the circuit?

Re _additional Electrolytic Capacitors added in parallel with 2 of the
leads from the Multi value tubular capacitor_. ?Many people say not to
leave the old electrolytics connected since they might short out. There
are various ways of dealing with this, and yet keep the can there for
appearances.

My guess is that that 0.2 was found to be needed; but perhaps it was
factory original on your version?

It is too bad that the general ¡°we¡± have not accumulated more manuals/
schematics for various versions.

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *W4LSV Barry via
groups.io
*Sent:* Sunday, January 12, 2025 9:36 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-38 recapping Query

Hi Don,

Thank you for adding the drawing and explanation. ?Your comment about it
might be a replacement for the 0.25. ?I found 2 additional Electrolytic
Capacitors added in parallel with 2 of the leads from the Multi value
tubular capacitor. ?Rather than cutting off the leads of the 2 bad
sections, the new ones were just wired in parallel. So it¡¯s possible
that was also done in this instance.

I sure appreciate the help.

When I ?was a Novice in 1965, a friend loaned me his Hallicrafters S-38
to use as the receiver in my station. ? Johnson Adventurer was my
transmitter. I had to return the S-38. ? I¡¯ve recapped my Johnson
Adventurer and used it during Straight Key Night several times with my
Novice J-38 Key. ? ?Thought it would be fun to try using this newly
acquired S-38 during Straight Key Night next year.

73

Barry W4LSV

_._,_._,_


--
don??? va3drl

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998


Re: S-38 recapping Query

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Barry,

Re ?Your comment about it might be a replacement for the 0.25.? Is the .25 also in the circuit?

?

Re additional Electrolytic Capacitors added in parallel with 2 of the leads from the Multi value tubular capacitor. ?Many people say not to leave the old electrolytics connected since they might short out. There are various ways of dealing with this, and yet keep the can there for appearances.

My guess is that that 0.2 was found to be needed; but perhaps it was factory original on your version?

It is too bad that the general ¡°we¡± have not accumulated more manuals/schematics for various versions.

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of W4LSV Barry via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 9:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-38 recapping Query

?

Hi Don,

Thank you for adding the drawing and explanation. ?Your comment about it might be a replacement for the 0.25. ?I found 2 additional Electrolytic Capacitors added in parallel with 2 of the leads from the Multi value tubular capacitor. ?Rather than cutting off the leads of the 2 bad sections, the new ones were just wired in parallel. So it¡¯s possible that was also done in this instance. ??

I sure appreciate the help.

?

When I ?was a Novice in 1965, a friend loaned me his Hallicrafters S-38 to use as the receiver in my station. ? Johnson Adventurer was my transmitter. I had to return the S-38. ? I¡¯ve recapped my Johnson Adventurer and used it during Straight Key Night several times with my Novice J-38 Key. ? ?Thought it would be fun to try using this newly acquired S-38 during Straight Key Night next year.

?

73

Barry W4LSV

_._,_._,_


--
don??? va3drl


Re: S-38 recapping Query

 

Hi Don,
Thank you for adding the drawing and explanation. ?Your comment about it might be a replacement for the 0.25. ?I found 2 additional Electrolytic Capacitors added in parallel with 2 of the leads from the Multi value tubular capacitor. ?Rather than cutting off the leads of the 2 bad sections, the new ones were just wired in parallel. So it¡¯s possible that was also done in this instance. ??

I sure appreciate the help.
?
When I ?was a Novice in 1965, a friend loaned me his Hallicrafters S-38 to use as the receiver in my station. ? Johnson Adventurer was my transmitter. I had to return the S-38. ? I¡¯ve recapped my Johnson Adventurer and used it during Straight Key Night several times with my Novice J-38 Key. ? ?Thought it would be fun to try using this newly acquired S-38 during Straight Key Night next year.
?
73
Barry W4LSV


Re: S-38 recapping Query

 

Richard,
thanks for the explanation and advice. ?I¡¯ll replace the additional 0.2 capacitor.
?
73
Barry


Re: S-38 recapping Query

 
Edited

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Barry , you have not seen many replies so I will give it a shot, and I forget what Richard said. ??Oh now I see.. I¡¯m saying the same thing. Oh well, ???

Re? It does not have the C-38 and C-39 silver micas that, according to my schematic, were added to later models of S-38.

Is ¡°my schematic¡± one that came with the radio? or? ?some later schematic from ??? ??where do they[C-38 and C-39] go??


Re? ?I have found an extra 0.2 @200 V paper capacitor connected between Pin 6 of 12SK7 tube and ground.

?It might have helped stabilize the ¡°almost B+¡±? voltages at pin 6 [screen] or maybe it is a replacement for the 0.25 . Recall this is a schematic not a wiring drawing, so it theoretically could go either place

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Knoppow via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2025 10:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-38 recapping Query

?

I am looking at a schematic from Riders, probably from BAMA. It
shows Pin 6 of the 12SK7 to be the screen grid, going to a line also
connected to the a 0.25mfd cap on the B+ going to T-4 and the screen of
the 35L6 output tube. There is a 0.25 mfd cap connected to ground to
by-pass this line but in this schematic its shown at the B+ side of T-4.
Same line. Its called C-17. This line goes to the B+ filter. Its
bypassed by one of the filter caps but that may not be effective at RF
so this additional cap is included. See if there is also a bypass at the
B+ input to T-4. It may have been moved or there may have been caps in
both locations if it was found better bypassing was needed. There were
evidently lots of changes to the S-38. From the circuit I would keep a
cap there, replacing it with a new cap of course.
Even though the B+ goes to a filter cap there may be pick up in the
wiring or the filter cap may not give good bypassing at RF.

On 1/11/2025 6:08 AM, W4LSV Barry via groups.io wrote:

I am in the process of recapping a S-38 that was given to me. ? I have
not powered it up. ?It still has all the paper capacitors and non
polarized AC Plug. ?It has 6 tubes and a BFO. ? It does not have the
C-38 and C-39 silver micas that, according to my schematic, were added
to later models of S-38.
I have found an extra 0.2 @200 V paper capacitor connected between Pin 6
of 12SK7 tube and ground. ?Its condition is similar to all the other
paper capacitors that I am replacing. ?As far as the physical location,
one lead is connected to the same ground lug that C-36 uses.

Should I replace it or not?

I would greatly appreciate any insights and suggestions, as my
experience with vintage radios is minimal
73,
Barry W4LSV

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998 ?


--
don??? va3drl


Re: Another new member -- intro

 

If anyone has, or knows where I can find an S meter for the SX-23, please let me know. Mine is missing. Otherwise the rig is intact.?


Re: Another new member -- intro

 

Oh wow! Thanks, Don! I'd been looking for that!?


Re: Another new member -- intro

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Nick, many months ago I posted a link to the QST 5 page ad for ?the 23

See ??????/g/HallicraftersRadios/message/25703 ?for link

?

,_._,_


--
don??? va3drl


Re: Another new member -- intro

 

Heartwarming to see S 38 restorations. It was never a great performer but so many of us had one as our first radio. You never forget your first.?

Mark
AF6IM



On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 6:35?AM Nick, W1NJC via <njc=[email protected]> wrote:
Wow, Bill. Thanks!?
?
I finished the escutcheon a bit differently than stock. When I was cleaning it up I realized the entire piece was chromed steel and they had masked the "wings" when they painted it. The paint was a dull grayish brown and was scratched and peeling in several places. I ended up removing all of the paint (hot water and a toothbrush) and found Rust-o-leum "metallic oil rubbed bronze" at Walmart. I decided to mask the wings and?the Skyrider emblem in the center. I think it looks a lot better this way and I'm not sure why they opted to paint the emblem at the factory.
?
Anyway, it's a neat rig. I was using it in an AM QSO last night on 75m. Single RF stage so it's more of a looker than a performer, I guess. Still, I find it works quite well with surprisingly low drift. Plus it's just neat and nostalgic to operate an 86 year-old beauty like this!
?
Nick W1NJC?


--
AF6IM
www.parachutemobile.com


Re: Photo SX-23 by W1NJC.jpg uploaded

 

You may be right.? Usually you'll find either one or a few on Ebay but just searching a minute ago, NOTHING !
?
Shame, what I like about the 23 is the Retro or Art Deco look.

K2WH


Re: Photo SX-23 by W1NJC.jpg uploaded

 

All you need to do is click on the highlighted? text.
--

K2WH


Re: S-38 recapping Query

 

I am looking at a schematic from Riders, probably from BAMA. It
shows Pin 6 of the 12SK7 to be the screen grid, going to a line also
connected to the a 0.25mfd cap on the B+ going to T-4 and the screen of
the 35L6 output tube. There is a 0.25 mfd cap connected to ground to
by-pass this line but in this schematic its shown at the B+ side of T-4.
Same line. Its called C-17. This line goes to the B+ filter. Its
bypassed by one of the filter caps but that may not be effective at RF
so this additional cap is included. See if there is also a bypass at the
B+ input to T-4. It may have been moved or there may have been caps in
both locations if it was found better bypassing was needed. There were
evidently lots of changes to the S-38. From the circuit I would keep a
cap there, replacing it with a new cap of course.
Even though the B+ goes to a filter cap there may be pick up in the
wiring or the filter cap may not give good bypassing at RF.


On 1/11/2025 6:08 AM, W4LSV Barry via groups.io wrote:
I am in the process of recapping a S-38 that was given to me. ? I have
not powered it up. ?It still has all the paper capacitors and non
polarized AC Plug. ?It has 6 tubes and a BFO. ? It does not have the
C-38 and C-39 silver micas that, according to my schematic, were added
to later models of S-38.
I have found an extra 0.2 @200 V paper capacitor connected between Pin 6
of 12SK7 tube and ground. ?Its condition is similar to all the other
paper capacitors that I am replacing. ?As far as the physical location,
one lead is connected to the same ground lug that C-36 uses.

Should I replace it or not?

I would greatly appreciate any insights and suggestions, as my
experience with vintage radios is minimal
73,
Barry W4LSV
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998


Re: Photo SX-23 by W1NJC.jpg uploaded

 

Wow!?? Congrats on owning such a remarkable radio

It's quite probable that that is the finest remaining SX-23 in existence .? What a beautiful rig. I wonder if this too was a Raymond Lowey industrial design?
?
John K5MO


Re: Photo SX-23 by W1NJC.jpg uploaded

 

Have a problem here.? I can't see the picture, nor can I find the Album folder.? What am I missing?

73.
Joe? AB1YO

On Saturday, January 11, 2025 at 06:06:43 AM EST, Group Notification <[email protected]> wrote:


The following photos have been uploaded to the Hallicrafters Amateur Radios and Equipment - (ALBUM) photo album of the [email protected] group.

By: Bill (Group Owner) <k2wh@...>


S-38 recapping Query

 

I am in the process of recapping a S-38 that was given to me. ? I have not powered it up. ?It still has all the paper capacitors and non polarized AC Plug. ?It has 6 tubes and a BFO. ? It does not have the C-38 and C-39 silver micas that, according to my schematic, were added to later models of S-38.
?
I have found an extra 0.2 @200 V paper capacitor connected between Pin 6 of 12SK7 tube and ground. ?Its condition is similar to all the other paper capacitors that I am replacing. ?As far as the physical location, one lead is connected to the same ground lug that C-36 uses. ?

Should I replace it or not?

I would greatly appreciate any insights and suggestions, as my experience with vintage radios is minimal?
?
73,
Barry W4LSV


Re: Another new member -- intro

 

Wow, Bill. Thanks!?
?
I finished the escutcheon a bit differently than stock. When I was cleaning it up I realized the entire piece was chromed steel and they had masked the "wings" when they painted it. The paint was a dull grayish brown and was scratched and peeling in several places. I ended up removing all of the paint (hot water and a toothbrush) and found Rust-o-leum "metallic oil rubbed bronze" at Walmart. I decided to mask the wings and?the Skyrider emblem in the center. I think it looks a lot better this way and I'm not sure why they opted to paint the emblem at the factory.
?
Anyway, it's a neat rig. I was using it in an AM QSO last night on 75m. Single RF stage so it's more of a looker than a performer, I guess. Still, I find it works quite well with surprisingly low drift. Plus it's just neat and nostalgic to operate an 86 year-old beauty like this!
?
Nick W1NJC?


Photo SX-23 by W1NJC.jpg uploaded

Group Notification
 

The following photos have been uploaded to the Hallicrafters Amateur Radios and Equipment - (ALBUM) photo album of the [email protected] group.

By: Bill (Group Owner) <k2wh@...>


Re: Another new member -- intro

 

All I can suggest is to look for any wiring errors you may have
made. it IS possible for a new part to be defective but its rare. Just
should not be forgotten. If the LO doesn't work on all bands there is
not a whole lot that is common. First thing is make sure the band switch
is clean. New caps, especially replacing paper with plastic film, will
improve performance on the highest band but you are up against all sorts
of problems there including the types of tubes available at the time.
I have used just discrete caps in place of old can caps, mostly a
matter of looks but in some crowded chassis the can caps save a lot of
space.
BTW, note that the headphone connection is high impedance, goes to
the plate of the driver stage, so modern low impedance phones won't work.


On 1/10/2025 4:08 PM, Allthumbs via groups.io wrote:
Thank you Richard, Paul and Nick. Yes, I've read that the S-20R is a
pretty decent receiver and worth repairing/restoring. I passed on the
Hayseed Hamfest can electrolytic and just used discrete caps when going
through the power supply. I also converted to a 3-wire power cord and
changed out all but the old mica caps (which rarely fail in my limited
experience). The rcvr now "hears" a clean signal injected at the plate
of the 6K8 mixer but the local oscillator isn't functioning. If it did,
I'm pretty sure it would be a fully operational rcvr. I need to put the
thing back on the bench and go over things once again to make sure I
have a clear picture of the issues. I hope to do that this coming week
and you can be sure I'll have a few questions. :-)
Tom

_._,_._,_
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998