Looks like you have received good information and I think you will enjoy the TO keyer. It will key any radio. ?Boat Anchor or other. One difference is that it doesn’t have self completing dits and dahs so you need to keep the paddle making contact throughout the dit and especially the dah or it will be cut short and sound like a dit. ?I wish someone would talk about the history behind the HA-1 ?T0 keyer. Was his call K9TO or something like that. I talked to the inventor’s son once and he told me about his father who got credit for the invention that Hallicrafters manufactured and sold thousands of units.
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On Sep 4, 2024, at 4:07?PM, Richard Knoppow <1oldlens1@...> wrote:
?There is a good manual on BAMA. Paddles can be connected via a 1/4 inch TRS "Stereo" plug on the panel or via wires to the octal accessory plug on the back. Sleeve is common, dash is the ring, dot is the tip. Out put is via the octal plug on the back, pin 2 is the relay contact. There is a 1/4 inch jack on the back for headphones or external speaker. Keying is via a mercury wetted relay, will key almost any transmitter. Relay must be vertical. Octal plug also can be used to connect external speaker, a diagram is given in the handbook. I am attaching a copy, if its not too large. These are good, simple, keyers. On 9/4/2024 12:09 PM, Bill Carpenter wrote: I was given a TO keyed that is in great shape except for a broken knob.
It appears to work too with? paddles plugged in and headphones it keys
OK and sounds good.? But even though I found and downloaded the manual
I'm confused on how to wire it to a rig - for example a Kenwood
TS-530S.? There is an Amphenol jack in the back but no matching plug.
From the manual it appears that I use pin 2 and ground for output?? But
I'm not sure and I don't want to mess anything up!? Help please.
--
73, Bill NZ0T
-- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL SKCC 19998
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Should work fine. Check the section on the protective circuit.
Probably not really necessary but double check. On mine its mounted on
the back of the octal plug.
If you have used a keyer the TO is a quite good one although not as
sophisticated as modern ones. For myself, I am happy with a bug or
straight key. I learned to use both a very long time ago.
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On 9/4/2024 3:49 PM, Bill Carpenter wrote: Thanks Richard,
The input from the paddle I know but the manual isn't real specific on
the out put.? I've been a CW op for over 42 years now but have never
used an older vacuum tube keyer.? I'll use octal pin 2 and GND for the
output.
--
73, Bill NZ0T
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998
|
Thanks Richard,
?
The input from the paddle I know but the manual isn't real specific on the out put.? I've been a CW op for over 42 years now but have never used an older vacuum tube keyer.? I'll use octal pin 2 and GND for the output.?
--
73, Bill NZ0T
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Locked
Re: HT-37 transformer failure due to rapid STBY-->OFF-->STBY
Hi Don,
“turns off the transmitter’s power” means turns the original power switch CCW.? This cuts power to the SSR management circuit, but not to the SSR's themselves.? The SSR management circuit has enough energy left in its filter capacitor to manage the SSR for at least another power cycle.
The SSR itself turns off at a zero crossing of current because that's how they work.? That saves me from figuring out how to detect the zero-crossing.? These SSRs turn on at zero voltage crossing without me thinking, too.? Some SSRs turn on right away.? Yeah, there's probably some room left for optimization of the turn-on time.? But I don't want to make this gadget too complicated.
I don't aim to mitigate all the inrush current.? Some is inevitable, such as what the cold filaments draw.? The ICL helps with that but doesn't get rid of it completely.
Cheers,
Halden
|
There is a good manual on BAMA.
Paddles can be connected via a 1/4 inch TRS "Stereo" plug on the
panel or via wires to the octal accessory plug on the back. Sleeve is
common, dash is the ring, dot is the tip.
Out put is via the octal plug on the back, pin 2 is the relay contact.
There is a 1/4 inch jack on the back for headphones or external
speaker.
Keying is via a mercury wetted relay, will key almost any
transmitter. Relay must be vertical.
Octal plug also can be used to connect external speaker, a diagram
is given in the handbook. I am attaching a copy, if its not too large.
These are good, simple, keyers.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/4/2024 12:09 PM, Bill Carpenter wrote: I was given a TO keyed that is in great shape except for a broken knob.
It appears to work too with? paddles plugged in and headphones it keys
OK and sounds good.? But even though I found and downloaded the manual
I'm confused on how to wire it to a rig - for example a Kenwood
TS-530S.? There is an Amphenol jack in the back but no matching plug.
From the manual it appears that I use pin 2 and ground for output?? But
I'm not sure and I don't want to mess anything up!? Help please.
--
73, Bill NZ0T
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998
|
Locked
Re: HT-37 transformer failure due to rapid STBY-->OFF-->STBY
Halden, I don’t know what?? “turns off the transmitter’s power” means now; perhaps it means turns the reconnected? power switch? to OFF ? Below is some ideas based on what I think you are doing.? Over the past few months the SSR business has come up so I have had some similar but very primitive thoughts.? It is good that your concept works; at least most of the time. My thought is that first you need to detect a switch off input; then wait and gather your thoughts and decide to turn off at the end of this cycle or the next cycle [of half cycle?]? you might say wait till a peak voltage [ so you know where you are in the cycle], and only? then decide to go ahead with a turn-off at the end of a cycle or half cycle.? If this idea is reasonable, you might detect zero crossings and add 8 mS to calculate the Peak.? Peak as uses above just means well away from zero, so” we” really need a “not near zero” detector? , or another expression is? if near zero, don’t turn off now, but turn off at the next crossing.????? Now that you are into logic, you might consider that turn on at the peak is ideal only for ideal iron with no retentivity but with a very high retentivity it would be better to wait until the next zero to turn on; but that is too much delay so for this real transformer. ??you might mitigate “all” inrush with turn on at peak + 1?, 2?, 3?? milli-S?? ? ? ? Yeah, I noticed the asymmetry in current, too.? +++++++++++++ ??? -- don??? va3drl
|
The TO keyer requires a stereo 1/4" plug to connect to an external paddle (tip - dot/ ring-dash/ground). Then you need to connect a MONO 1/4" plug to the TS-530's key jack? (the 530 manual states open terminal voltage at this jack is MINUS 65VDC). That indicates it's using negative ("grid block") type keying. You need to rig up a cable from the TO keyer's Octal plug with one lead connected to the keyer's out put line and the other to ground. The end of that cable requires a MONO 1/4" plug that goes into the 530 key jack? (the 530 has no built in keyer - so the key jack is MONO -? designed fro a straight key or bug).
?
Bob k3AC
In a message dated 9/4/2024 4:02:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeepp@... writes:
?
Does not the TO require a 3 circuit "stereo" 1/4" plug. One side dit, other side dah?
K3HVG
On 09/04/2024 3:48 PM EDT edward schumacher <eddiewa9gqk@...> wrote:
?
?
?
It's made to plug into the standard key jack common on rigs of that era, straight two conductor. Check your radios manual for wiring, tip usually the line to key and ground is the body of the plug. Modern era rigs usually still have a jack to be used with a straight key and that is where this keyer plugs in. Rigs without builtin keyers rely on this for use of external keyers.
?
The paddles (should be a single lever) plug into the TO Keyer and it does the rest. A paddle made for iambic keyers will work also on these but with the extra play of the separate levers.
?
Remember, this is a "TO" keyer, not iambic so paddle manipulation is different. No squeeze keying to alternate dot/dash. Good luck.
?
73 ... Ed, WA9GQK
?
On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 02:09:13 PM CDT, Bill Carpenter <nz0tham@...> wrote:
?
?
I was given a TO keyed that is in great shape except for a broken knob. It appears to work too with? paddles plugged in and headphones it keys OK and sounds good.? But even though I found and downloaded the manual I'm confused on how to wire it to a rig - for example a Kenwood TS-530S.? There is an Amphenol jack in the back but no matching plug.? From the manual it appears that I use pin 2 and ground for output?? But I'm not sure and I don't want to mess anything up!? Help please.
--
73, Bill NZ0T
|
Does not the TO require a 3 circuit "stereo" 1/4" plug. One side dit, other side dah?
K3HVG
On 09/04/2024 3:48 PM EDT edward schumacher <eddiewa9gqk@...> wrote:
?
?
?
It's made to plug into the standard key jack common on rigs of that era, straight two conductor. Check your radios manual for wiring, tip usually the line to key and ground is the body of the plug. Modern era rigs usually still have a jack to be used with a straight key and that is where this keyer plugs in. Rigs without builtin keyers rely on this for use of external keyers.
?
The paddles (should be a single lever) plug into the TO Keyer and it does the rest. A paddle made for iambic keyers will work also on these but with the extra play of the separate levers.
?
Remember, this is a "TO" keyer, not iambic so paddle manipulation is different. No squeeze keying to alternate dot/dash. Good luck.
?
73 ... Ed, WA9GQK
?
On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 02:09:13 PM CDT, Bill Carpenter <nz0tham@...> wrote:
?
?
I was given a TO keyed that is in great shape except for a broken knob. It appears to work too with? paddles plugged in and headphones it keys OK and sounds good.? But even though I found and downloaded the manual I'm confused on how to wire it to a rig - for example a Kenwood TS-530S.? There is an Amphenol jack in the back but no matching plug.? From the manual it appears that I use pin 2 and ground for output?? But I'm not sure and I don't want to mess anything up!? Help please.
--
73, Bill NZ0T
|
It's made to plug into the standard key jack common on rigs of that era, straight two conductor. Check your radios manual for wiring, tip usually the line to key and ground is the body of the plug. Modern era rigs usually still have a jack to be used with a straight key and that is where this keyer plugs in. Rigs without builtin keyers rely on this for use of external keyers.
The paddles (should be a single lever) plug into the TO Keyer and it does the rest. A paddle made for iambic keyers will work also on these but with the extra play of the separate levers.
Remember, this is a "TO" keyer, not iambic so paddle manipulation is different. No squeeze keying to alternate dot/dash. Good luck.
73 ... Ed, WA9GQK
On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 02:09:13 PM CDT, Bill Carpenter <nz0tham@...> wrote:
I was given a TO keyed that is in great shape except for a broken knob. It appears to work too with? paddles plugged in and headphones it keys OK and sounds good.? But even though I found and downloaded the manual I'm confused on how to wire it to a rig - for example a Kenwood TS-530S.? There is an Amphenol jack in the back but no matching plug.? From the manual it appears that I use pin 2 and ground for output?? But I'm not sure and I don't want to mess anything up!? Help please.
--
73, Bill NZ0T
|
I was given a TO keyed that is in great shape except for a broken knob. It appears to work too with? paddles plugged in and headphones it keys OK and sounds good.? But even though I found and downloaded the manual I'm confused on how to wire it to a rig - for example a Kenwood TS-530S.? There is an Amphenol jack in the back but no matching plug.? From the manual it appears that I use pin 2 and ground for output?? But I'm not sure and I don't want to mess anything up!? Help please.
--
73, Bill NZ0T
|
Locked
Re: HT-37 transformer failure due to rapid STBY-->OFF-->STBY
Well Halden , we are guessing, it might be an inrush adder that is not obvious, or maybe the rectifier tube[s] not quite “balanced”? or whatever. I have not looked at the bias at all, but would not expect any noticeable current . Perhaps more shots will provide clues. ? Yeah, I noticed the asymmetry in current, too.???? ….etc… ?? -- don??? va3drl
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Locked
Re: HT-37 transformer failure due to rapid STBY-->OFF-->STBY
Hi Don,
Yeah, I noticed the asymmetry in current, too.? Thanks to your markup, it's clear that the current that goes through the rectifiers is about 0.4 A higher on one side than the other.? The circuit to supply negative bias voltage draws current on only one side of the cycle.? Could it be drawing this much?? If I remember, I'll measure the voltage across R64 or R63.
Cheers,
Halden VE7UTS
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Locked
Re: HT-37 transformer failure due to rapid STBY-->OFF-->STBY
Halden, I admire your ?work on this project, but for now I am bypassing the design details of the new circuit. Img ..35 ?seems to show a very dominant resistive load [heaters and filaments] and a very small bit of inrush? so ?timing must have worked very well. Img…36?? looks like ?source was opened just before ?current reversed so voltage had just passed ?zero crossover ?and likely is what you wanted. Img…37?? As you indicated one would not expect an intentional situation like 37, but it has happened. The turn off is very similar to img 36, ?and before that “I SEE” a nominal 1 AMP? “near sine wave” with 1 Amp ?sections on top of the sine peaks. ??There seems to be little inrush current. ???My guess is the extra peaks are from the rectifiers, but to have short conduction in AC and 5R4 and 5Y4 the? 6V.3 cathodes must have cooled so there is little B+ and B++ current, but the B++ caps must be charged. ??Current appears ?to have a larger “peak section” on the negative side which leaves me baffled on the surface of things. >>>Just some thoughts. Now, I’ll have to try to digest your epistle. ?? Here is some mutilations of your img 37 ??? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of HF via groups.io
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2024 4:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] HT-37 transformer failure due to rapid STBY-->OFF-->STBY? Here’s an update on the circuit I mentioned earlier for avoiding the occasional “thunggg” turn-on sound which is due to remanence-induced current surge.? This circuit might reduce stress on the transformer, but is unlikely to remove the risk associated with improper de-powering of the transmitter.? It avoids the remanence problem by always turning the transformer on at the beginning of one polarity of the applied AC power and always turning it off after the other.? Thus, the initial magnetization of the transformer cannot build upon remanent magnetization already present.? ? A small transformer scavenged from a “wall wart” power supply connects to the switched AC line.? Two diodes in series with one side of the secondary feed a 220 uF (100 uF should be plenty) capacitor and then a 5.4V LDO regulator.? The other side of the secondary goes to this circuit’s ground (not connected to the HT-37’s ground).? A voltage divider connects after the first diode to provide a pulse once per cycle to an NPN transistor, which in turn supplies the Trigger input to a 555 timer IC.? The 5.4 VDC supplies the 555’s Vcc, enabling the 555’s output to provide 4.0 V to activate a pair of OMRON G3MB-202P solid state relays connected in parallel.?? The 555’s timing resistor and capacitor provide an output pulse approximately 15.3 ms long.? The 555’s Reset line connects to Vcc through a resistor.? The 555’s output pulse begins during the AC half-cycle (A) that triggers it.? It’s still high during the subsequent zero-voltage crossing of the AC waveform, at which time the SSR connects the AC power to the transformer primary at the beginning of the next half cycle (B).? The SSR control input is still high during the next zero-crossing, enabling the next half-cycle (A again) to continue powering the primary.? During this half cycle, the SSR control pulse ends. ?The AC power pulse retriggers the 555 1-2 ms later, maintaining the power connection when the next half-cycle (B) begins.? This continues until someone turns off the transmitter’s power.? When that happens, the 555 does not get retriggered, so there’s no voltage on the SSR’s control pins at the next zero crossing.? Thus, half-cycle A is the last one powering the primary. The images below illustrate the turn-on and turn-off using this circuit.? One of the turn-offs occurs only a few seconds after turn-on while the filaments are still warming up.? The other occurs after warm-up.? I think the bump on the current waveform represents the additional current drawn to top off the filter capacitors. While this circuit works, I’m not certain it will work well with every turn-on of the HT-37.? This is because turn-on can occur at various times during the “A” half cycle, possibly sometimes providing a 555 output pulse that starts late.? If it starts late enough, the 555’s output pulse to the SSR might still be high when the next trigger pulse arrives, causing it to be missed.? In such a case, the transmitter would turn off momentarily and then on again.? One could shorten the 555’s output pulse so that it’s guaranteed to end before the last possible time that the next pulse could arrive.? But that would increase the risk of sometimes turning off the SSR just before the current crosses zero (the current zero-cross slightly lags the voltage zero-cross).? It’s not practical to test this circuit for all possible timings of turn-on relative to the AC power cycle.? So, I’m considering narrowing the window of possible trigger times by substituting a chip that activates its output pulse on a falling transition instead of a voltage level (CD74HC4538).? I’m also considering setting up an additional SSR control pulse that’s a few AC power cycles long to cover the initial several cycles while the pulse timing settles down.? ? ? -- don??? va3drl
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Locked
Re: HT-37 transformer failure due to rapid STBY-->OFF-->STBY
Here’s an update on the circuit I mentioned earlier for avoiding the occasional “thunggg” turn-on sound which is due to remanence-induced current surge.? This circuit might reduce stress on the transformer, but is unlikely to remove the risk associated with improper de-powering of the transmitter.? It avoids the remanence problem by always turning the transformer on at the beginning of one polarity of the applied AC power and always turning it off after the other.? Thus, the initial magnetization of the transformer cannot build upon remanent magnetization already present.?
?
A small transformer scavenged from a “wall wart” power supply connects to the switched AC line.? Two diodes in series with one side of the secondary feed a 220 uF (100 uF should be plenty) capacitor and then a 5.4V LDO regulator.? The other side of the secondary goes to this circuit’s ground (not connected to the HT-37’s ground).? A voltage divider connects after the first diode to provide a pulse once per cycle to an NPN transistor, which in turn supplies the Trigger input to a 555 timer IC.? The 5.4 VDC supplies the 555’s Vcc, enabling the 555’s output to provide 4.0 V to activate a pair of OMRON G3MB-202P solid state relays connected in parallel.?? The 555’s timing resistor and capacitor provide an output pulse approximately 15.3 ms long.? The 555’s Reset line connects to Vcc through a resistor.?
The 555’s output pulse begins during the AC half-cycle (A) that triggers it.? It’s still high during the subsequent zero-voltage crossing of the AC waveform, at which time the SSR connects the AC power to the transformer primary at the beginning of the next half cycle (B).? The SSR control input is still high during the next zero-crossing, enabling the next half-cycle (A again) to continue powering the primary.? During this half cycle, the SSR control pulse ends.? The AC power pulse retriggers the 555 1-2 ms later, maintaining the power connection when the next half-cycle (B) begins.? This continues until someone turns off the transmitter’s power.? When that happens, the 555 does not get retriggered, so there’s no voltage on the SSR’s control pins at the next zero crossing.? Thus, half-cycle A is the last one powering the primary.
The images below illustrate the turn-on and turn-off using this circuit.? One of the turn-offs occurs only a few seconds after turn-on while the filaments are still warming up.? The other occurs after warm-up.? I think the bump on the current waveform represents the additional current drawn to top off the filter capacitors.
While this circuit works, I’m not certain it will work well with every turn-on of the HT-37. ?This is because turn-on can occur at various times during the “A” half cycle, possibly sometimes providing a 555 output pulse that starts late.? If it starts late enough, the 555’s output pulse to the SSR might still be high when the next trigger pulse arrives, causing it to be missed.? In such a case, the transmitter would turn off momentarily and then on again.? One could shorten the 555’s output pulse so that it’s guaranteed to end before the last possible time that the next pulse could arrive.? But that would increase the risk of sometimes turning off the SSR just before the current crosses zero (the current zero-cross slightly lags the voltage zero-cross).? It’s not practical to test this circuit for all possible timings of turn-on relative to the AC power cycle.? So, I’m considering narrowing the window of possible trigger times by substituting a chip that activates its output pulse on a falling transition instead of a voltage level (CD74HC4538).? I’m also considering setting up an additional SSR control pulse that’s a few AC power cycles long to cover the initial several cycles while the pulse timing settles down.?
Please post or send comments and suggestions!
Cheers
Halden VE7UTS
Waveform images:? Yellowish orange is voltage applied to the primary.? Turquoise is the voltage across a 0.2-ohm resistor in series with the primary.
?
?
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Re: Keying circuit for HT 37
I used a fixed value resistor, 2.5 megohm as I recall this eliminates the need for the dual pot. Easy to play with the resistor value to get the desired delay. Just my two bits.
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On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:19?PM, edward schumacher <eddiewa9gqk@...> wrote:
?
The original modification for break in cw will accomplish this but since the dual pot is hard to implement, requires two pots to duplicate. Still, it can be done.
Transmitter still is in MOX but now the VOX relay is opened normal and closed on key closure. This gives breakin from the MOX position.
I have attached the bulletin for your review. I knew one original owner who did this and it worked well with the HA-1 keyer (his wife was the cw op).
They also did the hair clip on the vfo cap for MARS work and also set up for rtty. This cost Karl two power transformers from steady rtty operation, not from fast switching off as cautioned in the manual. Yolanda never shut the rig off, HI!
Hope this helps. You may be able to figure a workaround with what's available today.
73 ... Ed, WA9GQK
On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 02:32:17 PM CDT, Bob <w4jfabob@...> wrote:
Maybe you can build a transistor, FET, or opto-coupler switching circuit inside while leaving the original switch intact.? It can be built on a very small?perf board. Just a thought. Bob W4JFA On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 2:41?PM RILEY HOLLINGSWORTH via <K4zdh= [email protected]> wrote: Does anyone know of a way to key the HT 37 on CW without having to switch the Operation switch from MOX to Standby at the end of a transmission?? I don't necessarily mind doing that but I don't want any additional wear and tear on that old switch.
|
Re: Keying circuit for HT 37
The original modification for break in cw will accomplish this but since the dual pot is hard to implement, requires two pots to duplicate. Still, it can be done.
Transmitter still is in MOX but now the VOX relay is opened normal and closed on key closure. This gives breakin from the MOX position.
I have attached the bulletin for your review. I knew one original owner who did this and it worked well with the HA-1 keyer (his wife was the cw op).
They also did the hair clip on the vfo cap for MARS work and also set up for rtty. This cost Karl two power transformers from steady rtty operation, not from fast switching off as cautioned in the manual. Yolanda never shut the rig off, HI!
Hope this helps. You may be able to figure a workaround with what's available today.
73 ... Ed, WA9GQK
On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 02:32:17 PM CDT, Bob <w4jfabob@...> wrote:
Maybe you can build a transistor, FET, or opto-coupler switching circuit inside while leaving the original switch intact.? It can be built on a very small?perf board. Just a thought. Bob W4JFA
On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 2:41?PM RILEY HOLLINGSWORTH via <K4zdh= [email protected]> wrote: Does anyone know of a way to key the HT 37 on CW without having to switch the Operation switch from MOX to Standby at the end of a transmission?? I don't necessarily mind doing that but I don't want any additional wear and tear on that old switch.
|
Re: Keying circuit for HT 37
That's a much better idea! Bob W4JFA
There was a factory mod that was issued to make it a semi break in cw rig using the vox circuit. Seems like it is just a wire from the function switch to a high value resistor connected to the vox tube. I installed it on mine and it works great. The Hallicrafters bulletin is on BAMA I think, if not I can send it to you. Mike W0FD? On Sep 1, 2024, at 12:41?PM, RILEY HOLLINGSWORTH <K4zdh@...> wrote:
? Does anyone know of a way to key the HT 37 on CW without having to switch the Operation switch from MOX to Standby at the end of a transmission?? I don't necessarily mind doing that but I don't want any additional wear and tear on that old switch.
|
Re: Keying circuit for HT 37
There was a factory mod that was issued to make it a semi break in cw rig using the vox circuit. Seems like it is just a wire from the function switch to a high value resistor connected to the vox tube. I installed it on mine and it works great. The Hallicrafters bulletin is on BAMA I think, if not I can send it to you.
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On Sep 1, 2024, at 12:41?PM, RILEY HOLLINGSWORTH <K4zdh@...> wrote:
? Does anyone know of a way to key the HT 37 on CW without having to switch the Operation switch from MOX to Standby at the end of a transmission?? I don't necessarily mind doing that but I don't want any additional wear and tear on that old switch.
|
Re: Keying circuit for HT 37
Maybe you can build a transistor, FET, or opto-coupler switching circuit inside while leaving the original switch intact.? It can be built on a very small?perf board. Just a thought. Bob W4JFA
On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 2:41?PM RILEY HOLLINGSWORTH via <K4zdh= [email protected]> wrote: Does anyone know of a way to key the HT 37 on CW without having to switch the Operation switch from MOX to Standby at the end of a transmission?? I don't necessarily mind doing that but I don't want any additional wear and tear on that old switch.
|
Does anyone know of a way to key the HT 37 on CW without having to switch the Operation switch from MOX to Standby at the end of a transmission?? I don't necessarily mind doing that but I don't want any additional wear and tear on that old switch.
|
don Root
Bob