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Re: Hallicrafters and National Matsushita Generator manuals

 

Thanks Walt,
I kind-a knew they were not similar, especially sine the S-210 has the FM band.
-Drew


On Monday, May 20, 2024 at 12:51:46 PM PDT, waltcates <cateswa@...> wrote:


The s-200 and the s-210 are not similar. The S-200 is a 4 tube single conversion receiver. The S210 is a 6 tube dual conversion receiver.


Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of KN6WFM (Drew) <agriffith@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2024 2:20 PM
To: HALLI IO GROUP <[email protected]>
Subject: [HallicraftersRadios] Hallicrafters and National Matsushita Generator manuals
?
Greeting fellow Hallicrafters Enthusiasts,
I'm looking for two manuals:

1. The Hallicrafters S-200 or S-210 manual, or specifically the S-210 Schematic. I have a working S-210, that I re-capped, but it needs an alignment. I was told by someone at HI-FI Audio that they use the S-200 schematic in place of the S-210, so their S-210 kit does not contain an actual S-210 schematic.
Are these two radios that similar, and if so does anyone have the S-200 schematic/manual???

2. Any chance anyone here have a manual for the National (Matsushita) AM Signal Generator VP-8271A? I believe this generator was from the early 1980, possibly the late 70s. I came across this at a swap-meet and paid $20 for it, and it works. Unfortunately, the output sign-wave is slightly distorted, so it needs a little TLC.
On the Bama site there is a VP-8181A listed, but that's a digital generator, the VP_8271A is an Analog 100 to 30 mHz.
Thank you in advance,
-Drew
KN6WFM


Re: Hallicrafters and National Matsushita Generator manuals

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Manualman.com has the S210 manual for $13.25.


Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of KN6WFM (Drew) <agriffith@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2024 2:20 PM
To: HALLI IO GROUP <[email protected]>
Subject: [HallicraftersRadios] Hallicrafters and National Matsushita Generator manuals
?
Greeting fellow Hallicrafters Enthusiasts,
I'm looking for two manuals:

1. The Hallicrafters S-200 or S-210 manual, or specifically the S-210 Schematic. I have a working S-210, that I re-capped, but it needs an alignment. I was told by someone at HI-FI Audio that they use the S-200 schematic in place of the S-210, so their S-210 kit does not contain an actual S-210 schematic.
Are these two radios that similar, and if so does anyone have the S-200 schematic/manual???

2. Any chance anyone here have a manual for the National (Matsushita) AM Signal Generator VP-8271A? I believe this generator was from the early 1980, possibly the late 70s. I came across this at a swap-meet and paid $20 for it, and it works. Unfortunately, the output sign-wave is slightly distorted, so it needs a little TLC.
On the Bama site there is a VP-8181A listed, but that's a digital generator, the VP_8271A is an Analog 100 to 30 mHz.
Thank you in advance,
-Drew
KN6WFM


Re: Hallicrafters and National Matsushita Generator manuals

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

The s-200 and the s-210 are not similar. The S-200 is a 4 tube single conversion receiver. The S210 is a 6 tube dual conversion receiver.


Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of KN6WFM (Drew) <agriffith@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2024 2:20 PM
To: HALLI IO GROUP <[email protected]>
Subject: [HallicraftersRadios] Hallicrafters and National Matsushita Generator manuals
?
Greeting fellow Hallicrafters Enthusiasts,
I'm looking for two manuals:

1. The Hallicrafters S-200 or S-210 manual, or specifically the S-210 Schematic. I have a working S-210, that I re-capped, but it needs an alignment. I was told by someone at HI-FI Audio that they use the S-200 schematic in place of the S-210, so their S-210 kit does not contain an actual S-210 schematic.
Are these two radios that similar, and if so does anyone have the S-200 schematic/manual???

2. Any chance anyone here have a manual for the National (Matsushita) AM Signal Generator VP-8271A? I believe this generator was from the early 1980, possibly the late 70s. I came across this at a swap-meet and paid $20 for it, and it works. Unfortunately, the output sign-wave is slightly distorted, so it needs a little TLC.
On the Bama site there is a VP-8181A listed, but that's a digital generator, the VP_8271A is an Analog 100 to 30 mHz.
Thank you in advance,
-Drew
KN6WFM


Hallicrafters and National Matsushita Generator manuals

 

Greeting fellow Hallicrafters Enthusiasts,
I'm looking for two manuals:

1. The Hallicrafters S-200 or S-210 manual, or specifically the S-210 Schematic. I have a working S-210, that I re-capped, but it needs an alignment. I was told by someone at HI-FI Audio that they use the S-200 schematic in place of the S-210, so their S-210 kit does not contain an actual S-210 schematic.
Are these two radios that similar, and if so does anyone have the S-200 schematic/manual???

2. Any chance anyone here have a manual for the National (Matsushita) AM Signal Generator VP-8271A? I believe this generator was from the early 1980, possibly the late 70s. I came across this at a swap-meet and paid $20 for it, and it works. Unfortunately, the output sign-wave is slightly distorted, so it needs a little TLC.
On the Bama site there is a VP-8181A listed, but that's a digital generator, the VP_8271A is an Analog 100 to 30 mHz.
Thank you in advance,
-Drew
KN6WFM


Re: SR2000 CW Offset

 
Edited

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Out of business
C

On May 20, 2024 10:29 AM, "waltcates via groups.io" <cateswa@...> wrote:
have you tried these:



Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of W7WRX <clark@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2024 5:24 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SR2000 CW Offset
?

Got it. Thank You

C


Re: SR2000 CW Offset

 
Edited

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

have you tried these:



Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of W7WRX <clark@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2024 5:24 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SR2000 CW Offset
?

Got it. Thank You

C


Re: SR2000 CW Offset

 
Edited

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Jim.

The manual states 50HZ shift.? I understand you can change the 33pf cap and move it around to your liking. I just was curious as to why this was even happening.

My Second SR2000 has no Carrier osc crystals. I have searched the world over trying to find them.? Nobody makes crystals anymore. Anyone that has a parts rig, wont give them up.

As a result, I have no choice but to put a small Clock generator/oscillator under the deck hidden away.? ?

This is challenging as the radio actually needs THREE channels due to the CW offset.? ?I ran the rig with the two channels programmed on the Clock generator and it seemed to work on all modes.? Side band worked fantastically.??

There is an advantage, You can set the frequency to whatever you want.? This allows you to nail down the pass band perfectly to the aging Lattice filter.? ?My lattice filter has shifted 100 over.? ?So, I can easily program that offset to both sidebands and bingo, Audio is full, smooth and clear.

I understand why this offset is employed now.? I will do further testing to see if drive is less without the offset.? I have a set of Xtals out of the first rig to swap in.? Then I will disable the offset and attempt to Tune or use CW and see the effect.

If I do need the offset, I will then have to build a third OSC assembly.? Otherwise, CW won't work.? The units I have do not allow you to edit the firmware. Otherwise, I could set an offset with a trigger.

Just trying to save the radio.? In 2024 we have little options for parts now.

C





From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of James Liles via groups.io <hallicrafterssr2000@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2024 8:15 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SR2000 CW Offset
?

[Edited Message Follows]

Late to the post.? If the shift is only 50Hz, something is amiss.? Should be as in photo.

The offset is used in tune mode also.? ?This could result in underloading the finals and excessive screen current.? Check for exposure by loading the radio up then whistling the radio up while checking ALC level and screen current.

Good luck and regards Jim K9AXN? ?

??

Regards Jim K9AXN


Re: Ht-37 Power Transformer

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Paul,

I would also be interested in 1-2 TX for the HT32s I have here.? I've already had one TX fail.?

73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
On 5/19/2024 3:23 PM, Paul Christensen wrote:

Thanks, Walt. Mine is a ¡°673¡± transformer so I¡¯m guessing it pre-dates the factory change to the upgraded transformer.?

Capacitor and crystal date codes are from 12/1962 to mid-1963. ?This HT-37 has all Hallicrafters branded tubes.

Paul, W9AC.?


Re: SR2000 CW Offset

 

Got it. Thank You

C


Re: Ht-37 Power Transformer

 

Thanks, Walt. Mine is a ¡°673¡± transformer so I¡¯m guessing it pre-dates the factory change to the upgraded transformer.?

Capacitor and crystal date codes are from 12/1962 to mid-1963. ?This HT-37 has all Hallicrafters branded tubes.

Paul, W9AC.?


Re: SR2000 CW Offset

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

If you don't work CW, it won't make any difference. If you do, it would give you more power output in CW.


Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.




From:[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of W7WRX <clark@...>
Sent:?Sunday, May 19, 2024 2:41 PM
To:[email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject:?Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SR2000 CW Offset
?
Thanks Walt.? I was on the right path.? My radio seems to work fine without the offset.? I was curious as to why it was even there.?

C

On May 19, 2024 12:05 PM, "waltcates via groups.io" <cateswa@...> wrote:
In the CW mode the balanced mixer is biased to pass the carrier oscillator signal (USB) without carrier suppression. The USB osc frequency is just outside the pass band of the xtal filter. Although the signal is much larger than the normal suppressed carrier signal it is still way down the slope of the filter. The 50Hz offset insures there is enough signal for CW operation.


Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.


From:[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of W7WRX <clark@...>
Sent:?Sunday, May 19, 2024 12:39 PM
To:[email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject:?[HallicraftersRadios] SR2000 CW Offset
?

What is the purpose of the 50HZ CW offset?? This is accomplished by C135 a 33PF cap.? Why would you want to kick CW carrier over just 50 hz???

I can run the rig on CW with out the offset and it seems to work. Is it just getting it closer to one side of the lattice filter?

C


Re: A couple of miscellaneous questions

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Tom


Thanks for the suggestions...I will be taking apart the case sometime in the next few days and
keep you posted

I had the foresight to remove the batteries in both units when I put them away, so no 'crud'
to contend with

Thanks, nice to know us Navy guys stick together

Tom Latimer (CT(R)2)



On 5/19/2024 15:41, Tom Dailey wrote:

Another frequent problem (at least out here in DRY Colorado, is
"zorching" of the front-end FET.? Static WILL take it right out, as
there's no protection in front of it.? The NTE sub works quite well,
should that ever be the case.? Yes, the battery compartmentj (2
sections) definately gets crudded up if ignored... a Harbor Fright [sic]
brass brush works great on the spring contacts.? and yep.... Jim's
right... the (closed circuit) earphone jack can get slight oxidized.?
Sangean designed and built the radio, but all of mine were the RatShack
"Realistic" DX-440, and for their size, they're qujte amazing.

Tom - W?EAJ


Re: SR2000 CW Offset

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks Walt.? I was on the right path.? My radio seems to work fine without the offset.? I was curious as to why it was even there.?

C

On May 19, 2024 12:05 PM, "waltcates via groups.io" <cateswa@...> wrote:
In the CW mode the balanced mixer is biased to pass the carrier oscillator signal (USB) without carrier suppression. The USB osc frequency is just outside the pass band of the xtal filter. Although the signal is much larger than the normal suppressed carrier signal it is still way down the slope of the filter. The 50Hz offset insures there is enough signal for CW operation.


Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of W7WRX <clark@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2024 12:39 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [HallicraftersRadios] SR2000 CW Offset
?

What is the purpose of the 50HZ CW offset?? This is accomplished by C135 a 33PF cap.? Why would you want to kick CW carrier over just 50 hz???

I can run the rig on CW with out the offset and it seems to work. Is it just getting it closer to one side of the lattice filter?

C


Re: A couple of miscellaneous questions

 

Another frequent problem (at least out here in DRY Colorado, is
"zorching" of the front-end FET.? Static WILL take it right out, as
there's no protection in front of it.? The NTE sub works quite well,
should that ever be the case.? Yes, the battery compartmentj (2
sections) definately gets crudded up if ignored... a Harbor Fright [sic]
brass brush works great on the spring contacts.? and yep.... Jim's
right... the (closed circuit) earphone jack can get slight oxidized.?
Sangean designed and built the radio, but all of mine were the RatShack
"Realistic" DX-440, and for their size, they're qujte amazing.

Tom - W?EAJ


Re: Ht-37 Power Transformer

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Check the part # on your power transformer. If it is 052-400877, it is a late production xfmr that was improved to eliminate the filament winding failures.

For more information on the xfmrs see:

Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Paul Christensen <w9ac@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2024 12:53 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [HallicraftersRadios] Ht-37 Power Transformer
?

I recently acquired a very nice HT-37 transmitter.? From my limited testing, it appears the power transformer is functioning fine ¨C for now.? That said, I¡¯m considering a purchase or rebuild now for what may not be available in the future.?

?

Back in February, there was a list discussion concerning HT-37 transformer rebuilds and replacements.? Since that time, has anyone either rebuilt or purchased a new transformer from Hammond or Heyboer?? If so, perhaps order specifics can be shared?

?

I do have Walt¡¯s Ht-37 transformer specs¡­?

?

Paul, W9AC


Re: SR2000 CW Offset

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

In the CW mode the balanced mixer is biased to pass the carrier oscillator signal (USB) without carrier suppression. The USB osc frequency is just outside the pass band of the xtal filter. Although the signal is much larger than the normal suppressed carrier signal it is still way down the slope of the filter. The 50Hz offset insures there is enough signal for CW operation.


Walt Cates, WD0GOF
?
A majority of acceptance is not proof of correctness.



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of W7WRX <clark@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2024 12:39 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [HallicraftersRadios] SR2000 CW Offset
?

What is the purpose of the 50HZ CW offset?? This is accomplished by C135 a 33PF cap.? Why would you want to kick CW carrier over just 50 hz???

I can run the rig on CW with out the offset and it seems to work. Is it just getting it closer to one side of the lattice filter?

C


Ht-37 Power Transformer

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I recently acquired a very nice HT-37 transmitter.? From my limited testing, it appears the power transformer is functioning fine ¨C for now.? That said, I¡¯m considering a purchase or rebuild now for what may not be available in the future.?

?

Back in February, there was a list discussion concerning HT-37 transformer rebuilds and replacements.? Since that time, has anyone either rebuilt or purchased a new transformer from Hammond or Heyboer?? If so, perhaps order specifics can be shared?

?

I do have Walt¡¯s Ht-37 transformer specs¡­?

?

Paul, W9AC


SR2000 CW Offset

 

What is the purpose of the 50HZ CW offset?? This is accomplished by C135 a 33PF cap.? Why would you want to kick CW carrier over just 50 hz???

I can run the rig on CW with out the offset and it seems to work. Is it just getting it closer to one side of the lattice filter?

C


Re: A couple of miscellaneous questions

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Jim,

Again, thanks.....will keep you posted.?

Tom

On 5/17/2024 23:26, Jim Whartenby via groups.io wrote:

Tom
You are most welcome.??
Anything I can do to help, just let me know.? If you find no issues with corrosion of the printed circuit traces, then the problem can be as simple as crud in the switches and pots.? Don't forget the earphone jack.? If so then it will be an easy fix.? Your favorite spray contact cleaner will do wonders.

I am not familiar with the RF-2200 internal layout.? I have downloaded the service manual which is available for free from ElektroTanya.??

One of my favorite AM / FM /SW radios is the Realistic DX-440.? It's common failure mode is the three contacts that go between the battery holder part of the rear clamshell to the PCB.? The fix is to bend the contacts so that battery power gets to the motherboard.? I have lost count of how many DX-440s I have fixed with bad contacts.
Regards,
Jim
Logic: Method used to arrive at the wrong conclusion, with confidence.? Murphy


On Friday, May 17, 2024 at 08:15:26 PM CDT, Thomas Latimer <tlatimer4@...> wrote:


Jim

Thanks so much for the advice.....I had the foresight to remove the batteries so there's no corrosion there..... I will eyeball the PCB for anything amiss.......I have seen some leaking capacitors on computer PCBs so will check those

Again, thanks for the advice and I will keep you posted

Tom Latimer


On 5/16/2024 10:48, Jim Whartenby via groups.io wrote:
Tom
The?Panasonic RF-2200 is a mid 1970's era transistorized receiver that is not synthesized, that is it is a traditionally L/C oscillator tuned receiver.? Doing a search on the 'net, it seems to have a cult following much like the GE super-radio.? There are several YouTube videos documenting the repair/ restoration of these sets.? Perhaps a common problem in most portable radios is battery leakage which tends to attack PCB conductors.? A good reason to remove the batteries before storage.? .

If the intent is to reform capacitors or to prevent damage form the catastrophic failure of components, then a VARIAC is useless.? A dim bulb tester is what is needed.? The amount of current supplied to the test subject can be easily controlled by selecting the wattage of the incandescent light bulb used in the tester.? It has to be an incandescent bulb, modern compact florescent or LED bulbs do not behave in the same manner to manage current.

Since the?Panasonic RF-2200 is a modern battery / AC powered transistor radio, the troubleshooting technique is different then what is used for a tubed radio.? From the videos it seems that a critical eye checking over the printed circuit board is the first step.? Any corrosion seen is suspect and should be investigated; any damage found should be cleaned and repaired.? Getting rid of any dust, dirt and such along the way is a plus.? Use your favorite contact cleaner to clean / lubricate the various switches and pots is the next step.? I use the dollar store spray can of penetrating oil with great success but you may prefer the much more expensive Caig products.

Once the above has been completed, battery up the radio and turn it on.? Let us know what you find.
Regards,
Jim

Logic: Method used to arrive at the wrong conclusion, with confidence.? Murphy


On Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 02:39:00 AM CDT, Richard Knoppow <1oldlens1@...> wrote:


Now beware these are my opinions, I think they are right but others
may disagree.
A Variac is useful especially if it has meters showing the current
being drawn. A volt meter is also useful but less so.
The main purpose of bringing up a unit on a variable transformer is
to catch sudden shorts and be able to turn it off quickly. The idea of
starting at a low voltage and bringing it up over a long period of time
is really misleading. The idea is to catch anything that is going to
short quickly and turn it off. A filter capacitor that is going to short
usually does so quickly. Otherwise, electrolytic caps that have not been
used for a long time may need to "reform" but will do this in a few
minutes at full rated voltage. Just letting them run for a while will
usually reform them if they are going to reform. Lots of mis-information
about this.
Watch the ampmeter while bringing up the voltage. Usually, vacuum
tube rectifiers begin to conduct pretty well at quite low voltages so
any shorts will show up fairly quickly.
Sensitivity: for the most part a receiver like the SX-42 has pretty
good sensitivity. We must differentiate between sensitivity and noise
level. The biggest difference in modern receivers is noise level. Most
vacuum tube receivers with typical phone bandwidth will have a gain
sufficient to produce about half a watt or a watt of audio power from an
input signal of around a micro-volt. Now, signal to noise is another
thing. A decent receiver with a vacuum tube RF and mixer will have a SNR
of around 2.5 uV for something like 6 to 10 db noise ratio. Some modern
receivers, tube or solid state may be ten times better than this. The
requirement is that the noise contribution of the receiver be small
compared to the noise from the atmosphere. Up to maybe 10Mhz even rather
noisy tubes will do. For higher frequencies the quality of the tubes but
also the quality of the input circuits will make a large difference. The
later tubes, like 6SG7 or 6BA6, will be reasonably good to around 50Mhz
earlier tubes like the 6K7 or 6SK7, may become a bit deaf above about 20
Mhz. Some miniature tubes have considerably better signal to noise
ratio. One measure is the transconductance or Gm. The higher it is the
quieter the tube.
The tubes used in the S-20R are fairly old. The noise level is
higher than in later receivers like the SX-42, which was designed to
work at FM frequencies above 50Mhz. My S-20R has good sensitivity to
perhaps 15Mhz but gets a bit deaf above that. The quality of the coils,
etc, makes a difference so that a receiver like the RCA AR-88, which has
very low loss coils, has excellent sensitivity and low noise right up to
30Mhz.
There two ways of specifying "sensitivity" An old method, which one
finds in the specs of early receivers, is really a measure of gain. It
states that for an input of some given level, often 1 microvolt, the
audio output will be of some value, often 1 Watt. This is sometimes
useful to determine if a set is working correctly but is not really much
of a measure of performance. Another method, which has more valididity,
is a statement of signal to noise ratio for a given input level. In both
cases the input is modulated, usually 30% at some medium frequency,
typically 400Hz. The second kind of measurement is stated as some
sensitivity for a signal to noise ratio of, say 10db, but often some
other value. Typical sensitivity for older receivers is around 2
microvolts. Neither of these measurements can be used to compare designs
because both depend on the bandwidth. For a CW signal using a narrow
bandwidth, the sensitivity may be much lower than for AM with a, say
6Khz bandwidth.
There is a better method but its usually used for VHF or microwave.
That is a measure of equivalent noise input, also stated as noise figure
or noise factor. This is measured by applying a calibrated noise
generator to the receiver (or amplifier) and measuring the level
compared to the calculated noise from thermal agitation, i.e. the output
of a perfect, noise free, receiver. It is usually stated in db. A
typical high quality communication receiver has a noise factor of around
6 to 10 db, much less for low noise microwave amplifiers. The advantage
of this method of measurement is that it is independent of bandwidth and
band shape of the set. That allows comparisons of different designs. It
is not a difficult measurement to make but is not often stated for HF
communications receivers. Again, this depends on the transconductance of
the amplifier and mixer stages and the quality and loss factors of the
tuned circuits.
There are other qualities or properties that depend on the quality
of the components, such as the bandwidth of the RF stages and their
ability to reject images and the gain possible from the RF amplfiers
which depends on the Q and losses of (mostly) the coils.
Older text books on receiver design go into these factors fairly
thoroughly but are usually simple enough to be understandable to the
non-specialist. The higher the frequency the more complicated all this
gets, but up to communications frequencies (say 30 to 100 Mhz) its not
too bad.
I am giving you a long answer to your question. In fact, one can
expect pretty good performance from even older receivers if they are of
good quality.
I should also point out that up to around 15 or 20 Mhz the
atmospheric noise dominates things, far outweighing the electronic noise
of the receiver circuits. This outside noise diminishes generally to
where receiver noise becomes of considerable importance above about
20Mhz and dominates in the FM band above about 50Mhx. All this is
discussed in general text books. I find the older ones (say 1950s) are
easier to understand than later ones. They also have the advantage of
being available at no cost via the web. See <tubebooks.org> for instance.
Enough already, I will shut up now.

On 5/15/2024 8:09 PM, Thomas Latimer wrote:
(I know this is a little off topic but I hope someone out there can answer)

I have had two Panasonic RF-2200 radios for a lot of years and want to
get them back on-line again,? so I have a couple of questions for those
of you who are knowledgeable:

1.?? Should I start them gently on a variac or similar equipment (do you
run the same risk with the capacitors)

2.?? If they need repair, is there anyone that works on these

3.?? How does this model compare in sensitivity and selectability to
something like one of the main-line Hallicrafters stuff? (I have an
S-20R and three SX-42's)

Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated

Tom Latimer
Okemos, Michigan
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998



Re: A couple of miscellaneous questions

 

Tom
You are most welcome.??
Anything I can do to help, just let me know.? If you find no issues with corrosion of the printed circuit traces, then the problem can be as simple as crud in the switches and pots.? Don't forget the earphone jack.? If so then it will be an easy fix.? Your favorite spray contact cleaner will do wonders.

I am not familiar with the RF-2200 internal layout.? I have downloaded the service manual which is available for free from ElektroTanya.??

One of my favorite AM / FM /SW radios is the Realistic DX-440.? It's common failure mode is the three contacts that go between the battery holder part of the rear clamshell to the PCB.? The fix is to bend the contacts so that battery power gets to the motherboard.? I have lost count of how many DX-440s I have fixed with bad contacts.
Regards,
Jim
Logic: Method used to arrive at the wrong conclusion, with confidence.? Murphy


On Friday, May 17, 2024 at 08:15:26 PM CDT, Thomas Latimer <tlatimer4@...> wrote:


Jim

Thanks so much for the advice.....I had the foresight to remove the batteries so there's no corrosion there..... I will eyeball the PCB for anything amiss.......I have seen some leaking capacitors on computer PCBs so will check those

Again, thanks for the advice and I will keep you posted

Tom Latimer


On 5/16/2024 10:48, Jim Whartenby via groups.io wrote:
Tom
The?Panasonic RF-2200 is a mid 1970's era transistorized receiver that is not synthesized, that is it is a traditionally L/C oscillator tuned receiver.? Doing a search on the 'net, it seems to have a cult following much like the GE super-radio.? There are several YouTube videos documenting the repair/ restoration of these sets.? Perhaps a common problem in most portable radios is battery leakage which tends to attack PCB conductors.? A good reason to remove the batteries before storage.? .

If the intent is to reform capacitors or to prevent damage form the catastrophic failure of components, then a VARIAC is useless.? A dim bulb tester is what is needed.? The amount of current supplied to the test subject can be easily controlled by selecting the wattage of the incandescent light bulb used in the tester.? It has to be an incandescent bulb, modern compact florescent or LED bulbs do not behave in the same manner to manage current.

Since the?Panasonic RF-2200 is a modern battery / AC powered transistor radio, the troubleshooting technique is different then what is used for a tubed radio.? From the videos it seems that a critical eye checking over the printed circuit board is the first step.? Any corrosion seen is suspect and should be investigated; any damage found should be cleaned and repaired.? Getting rid of any dust, dirt and such along the way is a plus.? Use your favorite contact cleaner to clean / lubricate the various switches and pots is the next step.? I use the dollar store spray can of penetrating oil with great success but you may prefer the much more expensive Caig products.

Once the above has been completed, battery up the radio and turn it on.? Let us know what you find.
Regards,
Jim

Logic: Method used to arrive at the wrong conclusion, with confidence.? Murphy


On Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 02:39:00 AM CDT, Richard Knoppow <1oldlens1@...> wrote:


Now beware these are my opinions, I think they are right but others
may disagree.
A Variac is useful especially if it has meters showing the current
being drawn. A volt meter is also useful but less so.
The main purpose of bringing up a unit on a variable transformer is
to catch sudden shorts and be able to turn it off quickly. The idea of
starting at a low voltage and bringing it up over a long period of time
is really misleading. The idea is to catch anything that is going to
short quickly and turn it off. A filter capacitor that is going to short
usually does so quickly. Otherwise, electrolytic caps that have not been
used for a long time may need to "reform" but will do this in a few
minutes at full rated voltage. Just letting them run for a while will
usually reform them if they are going to reform. Lots of mis-information
about this.
Watch the ampmeter while bringing up the voltage. Usually, vacuum
tube rectifiers begin to conduct pretty well at quite low voltages so
any shorts will show up fairly quickly.
Sensitivity: for the most part a receiver like the SX-42 has pretty
good sensitivity. We must differentiate between sensitivity and noise
level. The biggest difference in modern receivers is noise level. Most
vacuum tube receivers with typical phone bandwidth will have a gain
sufficient to produce about half a watt or a watt of audio power from an
input signal of around a micro-volt. Now, signal to noise is another
thing. A decent receiver with a vacuum tube RF and mixer will have a SNR
of around 2.5 uV for something like 6 to 10 db noise ratio. Some modern
receivers, tube or solid state may be ten times better than this. The
requirement is that the noise contribution of the receiver be small
compared to the noise from the atmosphere. Up to maybe 10Mhz even rather
noisy tubes will do. For higher frequencies the quality of the tubes but
also the quality of the input circuits will make a large difference. The
later tubes, like 6SG7 or 6BA6, will be reasonably good to around 50Mhz
earlier tubes like the 6K7 or 6SK7, may become a bit deaf above about 20
Mhz. Some miniature tubes have considerably better signal to noise
ratio. One measure is the transconductance or Gm. The higher it is the
quieter the tube.
The tubes used in the S-20R are fairly old. The noise level is
higher than in later receivers like the SX-42, which was designed to
work at FM frequencies above 50Mhz. My S-20R has good sensitivity to
perhaps 15Mhz but gets a bit deaf above that. The quality of the coils,
etc, makes a difference so that a receiver like the RCA AR-88, which has
very low loss coils, has excellent sensitivity and low noise right up to
30Mhz.
There two ways of specifying "sensitivity" An old method, which one
finds in the specs of early receivers, is really a measure of gain. It
states that for an input of some given level, often 1 microvolt, the
audio output will be of some value, often 1 Watt. This is sometimes
useful to determine if a set is working correctly but is not really much
of a measure of performance. Another method, which has more valididity,
is a statement of signal to noise ratio for a given input level. In both
cases the input is modulated, usually 30% at some medium frequency,
typically 400Hz. The second kind of measurement is stated as some
sensitivity for a signal to noise ratio of, say 10db, but often some
other value. Typical sensitivity for older receivers is around 2
microvolts. Neither of these measurements can be used to compare designs
because both depend on the bandwidth. For a CW signal using a narrow
bandwidth, the sensitivity may be much lower than for AM with a, say
6Khz bandwidth.
There is a better method but its usually used for VHF or microwave.
That is a measure of equivalent noise input, also stated as noise figure
or noise factor. This is measured by applying a calibrated noise
generator to the receiver (or amplifier) and measuring the level
compared to the calculated noise from thermal agitation, i.e. the output
of a perfect, noise free, receiver. It is usually stated in db. A
typical high quality communication receiver has a noise factor of around
6 to 10 db, much less for low noise microwave amplifiers. The advantage
of this method of measurement is that it is independent of bandwidth and
band shape of the set. That allows comparisons of different designs. It
is not a difficult measurement to make but is not often stated for HF
communications receivers. Again, this depends on the transconductance of
the amplifier and mixer stages and the quality and loss factors of the
tuned circuits.
There are other qualities or properties that depend on the quality
of the components, such as the bandwidth of the RF stages and their
ability to reject images and the gain possible from the RF amplfiers
which depends on the Q and losses of (mostly) the coils.
Older text books on receiver design go into these factors fairly
thoroughly but are usually simple enough to be understandable to the
non-specialist. The higher the frequency the more complicated all this
gets, but up to communications frequencies (say 30 to 100 Mhz) its not
too bad.
I am giving you a long answer to your question. In fact, one can
expect pretty good performance from even older receivers if they are of
good quality.
I should also point out that up to around 15 or 20 Mhz the
atmospheric noise dominates things, far outweighing the electronic noise
of the receiver circuits. This outside noise diminishes generally to
where receiver noise becomes of considerable importance above about
20Mhz and dominates in the FM band above about 50Mhx. All this is
discussed in general text books. I find the older ones (say 1950s) are
easier to understand than later ones. They also have the advantage of
being available at no cost via the web. See <tubebooks.org> for instance.
Enough already, I will shut up now.

On 5/15/2024 8:09 PM, Thomas Latimer wrote:
(I know this is a little off topic but I hope someone out there can answer)

I have had two Panasonic RF-2200 radios for a lot of years and want to
get them back on-line again,? so I have a couple of questions for those
of you who are knowledgeable:

1.?? Should I start them gently on a variac or similar equipment (do you
run the same risk with the capacitors)

2.?? If they need repair, is there anyone that works on these

3.?? How does this model compare in sensitivity and selectability to
something like one of the main-line Hallicrafters stuff? (I have an
S-20R and three SX-42's)

Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated

Tom Latimer
Okemos, Michigan
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998