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New member (with a dso-x 3012a not booting), Summary - Fixed
Thank you all who responded, Glen and Steve you were right on the money with your advice: ?"Read the EEvblog threads on DSO-X 3000".
BTW, those guys are crazy!! A special Thank You to user maurit here for leading me in the right direction and answering numerous questions during scope recovery! I eventually managed to restart the scope while logged in via the serial port and so loaded new firmware from USB, that was fortunate. The scope is now in operation and I'm a happy camper! As stated I first made a case with Keysight support and actually got a call from them, a nice call alright but the message was disappointing: we only do business with other businesses.?I think they would have fixed my scope otherwise which is great for a 10 year old instrument but something to consider before buying Keysight if you're not a company! |
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAnyone can pinpoint me to the schematics of the drive board for my 33321-60036 ATT ? While waiting to find a replacement plunger, I will breadboard the necessary to electrically actuate the solenoids. I am not familiar with HP documentation, but I heard something about looking for a CLIP. ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Nicolas Mailloux
Sent: 21 janvier 2022 06:54 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? ?Since I have a plunger/piton broken at the DC Block, I can¡¯t make measurements easily. I am getting inconsistent measurements when tje ATT is assembled.? ? At this point here¡¯s what I think I should do : ? Replace the broken plunger to put the ATT in mechanical order ? Bench measure the ATT correctly? Show a video of the issue if it still persists.? ? Looking on ebay, I see many DC-4Ghz 70 dB ATT. The ones that are not the same exact number as mine (33321-60036) seem to only differ in their electronic driver board. They are not too expensive at around 60$. (I talk about other 33321 series ATT) ? However, for some reason, the same ATT as mine cost 5 times more, that is a bummer.? ? With all the trouble shooting done to date, I think my ATT was fine and the problem is elsewhere :( ? A fellow member of the group offered to send me one of his ATT to help me fix mine.? ? ? ?
? Hi, ? Yes its correct that its not needed to have and output terminator to measure the DC resistance, but you need to calculate the resistance, as you have done. So as you write, 61.11ohm is correct to measure between input and ground for a 10dB attenuator, when the output is not terminated. But when a terminator is added to the output , it should then measure 50 ohm.? Nicolas, your previous measurement of resistance between input and output, and input to ground and output to ground, all these values are correct for 10, 20 and 40 dB attenuators. ? But that you did not get 50 ohm when you used an terminator on the output, you should check that the terminator measures 50 ohm, and also check that the DC-block was not active. If this is OK, try moving the terminator to the opposite side, and measure the other way, as there might be a bad contact on one side. ? Regards, Askild ? ? On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:42 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote:
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý?Since I have a plunger/piton broken at the DC Block, I can¡¯t make measurements easily. I am getting inconsistent measurements when tje ATT is assembled.?
At this point here¡¯s what I think I should do :
Replace the broken plunger to put the ATT in mechanical order
Bench measure the ATT correctly?
Show a video of the issue if it still persists.?
Looking on ebay, I see many DC-4Ghz 70 dB ATT. The ones that are not the same exact number as mine (33321-60036) seem to only differ in their electronic driver board. They are not too expensive at around 60$. (I talk about other 33321 series ATT)
However, for some reason, the same ATT as mine cost 5 times more, that is a bummer.?
With all the trouble shooting done to date, I think my ATT was fine and the problem is elsewhere :(
A fellow member of the group offered to send me one of his ATT to help me fix mine.?
Le 21 janv. 2022 ¨¤ 02:16, Askild <megafluffy@...> a ¨¦crit?: ?
Hi,
Yes its correct that its not needed to have and output terminator to measure the DC resistance, but you need to calculate the resistance, as you have done.
So as you write, 61.11ohm is correct to measure between input and ground for a 10dB attenuator, when the output is not terminated.
But when a terminator is added to the output , it should then measure 50 ohm.?
Nicolas, your previous measurement of resistance between input and output, and input to ground and output to ground, all these values are correct for 10, 20 and 40 dB attenuators.
But that you did not get 50 ohm when you used an terminator on the output, you should check that the terminator measures 50 ohm, and also check that the DC-block was not active.
If this is OK, try moving the terminator to the opposite side, and measure the other way, as there might be a bad contact on one side.
Regards,
Askild
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:42 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote:
50-ohm termination is needed to get the correct attenuation but for measuring resistances it is not needed.? |
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Re: Thermal image database for equipment ?
Hi,
I do rely a lot on my IR cam, in particular for troubleshooting a device that lets off smoke or bad smells. You can easily detect shorted caps by controlled application of voltage and current on the supply lines. And many other things. But I think it will be difficult to setup reproductible conditions. Some thoughts: If you want to provide absolute values you must have a lot of expertise in thermal imaging, you must take into account environmental constraints like temperature and reflections of heat sources (lights, radiators), you must take into account fans whose airflow is usually altered when you remove covers. Often boards are installed such that you do not clearly see all components, if at all. That makes a database of known good units a large endavour, and I doubt it will be that much useful for troubleshooting. To my experience, an overheating component is quickly and clearly visible among all others. Then its either the component that is faulty, or some other very close not restraining power flow. BTW, I noticed that in many HP power supplies and some measurement untis the hottest part are the bleeding resistors across the capacitors in the power supply... :-/ cheers Martin |
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Re: Thermal image database for equipment ?
Looks like a great idea, if you can square the conditions used for taking thermal photos, and the conditions be reproductible... 73 de pu2sex Alexandre Enviado do meu Tele-Movel Em sex, 21 de jan de 2022 02:48, Tim Tuck <timt@...> escreveu: Hi all, |
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
Hi, Yes its correct that its not needed to have and output terminator to measure the DC resistance, but you need to calculate the resistance, as you have done. So as you write, 61.11ohm is correct to measure between input and ground for a 10dB attenuator, when the output is not terminated. But when a terminator is added to the output , it should then measure 50 ohm.? Nicolas, your previous measurement of resistance between input and output, and input to ground and output to ground, all these values are correct for 10, 20 and 40 dB attenuators. But that you did not get 50 ohm when you used an terminator on the output, you should check that the terminator measures 50 ohm, and also check that the DC-block was not active. If this is OK, try moving the terminator to the opposite side, and measure the other way, as there might be a bad contact on one side. Regards, Askild On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:42 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote: 50-ohm termination is needed to get the correct attenuation but for measuring resistances it is not needed.? |
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Thermal image database for equipment ?
Hi all,
I was having a discussion with a technician repairing some old equipment and he had taken IR pics with his FLIR to identify hot-spots. His wish was that there should be a database of IR pics for know good equipment to compare against. A quick search of the net didn't turn up anything beyond db's of IR for training AI mostly for security cameras. Does such a database exist ? If not, would creating such a database, that could be contributed to by all, be a worthwhile endeavour ? comments ? thoughts ? thanks Tm |
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Re: Frequency Counter 5340A
Bob Albert
Pardon me; the two primaries are for operation at two line voltages, 120 or 240.? I still don't understand two secondaries.? But around 15 VAC at 120 mA or so ought to do it, easily found.
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:40:29 PM PST, Bob Albert <bob91343@...> wrote:
After looking at the diagram, it appears that the two secondary windings deliver the same voltage, enough to supply 21VDC at 100 mA total after rectification and filtering.? I have no idea why two primary and two secondary windings unless it pertains to some noise or isolation consideration. What is the symptom that resulted from an open primary?? I would think the same voltage, or just a bit lower, would result, plus shortened life for the remaining primary winding. That looks like a 723 or similar regulator.? The oven is run from some other source. Bob
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 06:57:15 PM PST, David Hopkins <davhop@...> wrote:
Gentlemen, I have a Model 5340A frequency counter with the? 001 option ( High Stability Oscillator)? This option is powered from a transformer Marked 9100-3021 One of the primary windings has gone open circuit and I need to replace the transformer. I can't find the specifications for this transformer. What I need to know is the voltage rating of the two secondary windings. Looking at the schematic? on page 7-14 of the service manual leads me to suspect they are not the same value. Can anyone help me identify what the secondary voltage is for each winding> Thanks David ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
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Re: Frequency Counter 5340A
Bob Albert
After looking at the diagram, it appears that the two secondary windings deliver the same voltage, enough to supply 21VDC at 100 mA total after rectification and filtering.? I have no idea why two primary and two secondary windings unless it pertains to some noise or isolation consideration. What is the symptom that resulted from an open primary?? I would think the same voltage, or just a bit lower, would result, plus shortened life for the remaining primary winding. That looks like a 723 or similar regulator.? The oven is run from some other source. Bob
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 06:57:15 PM PST, David Hopkins <davhop@...> wrote:
Gentlemen, I have a Model 5340A frequency counter with the? 001 option ( High Stability Oscillator)? This option is powered from a transformer Marked 9100-3021 One of the primary windings has gone open circuit and I need to replace the transformer. I can't find the specifications for this transformer. What I need to know is the voltage rating of the two secondary windings. Looking at the schematic? on page 7-14 of the service manual leads me to suspect they are not the same value. Can anyone help me identify what the secondary voltage is for each winding> Thanks David ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
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Re: Bad HP436A power meter
Hello All!
Maybe someone has seen this: I have a bad HP436A power meter. I have a good one to test it against. The boards from the bad one, swapped one at a time into the good one, all test good. The bad meter has essentially a mainframe problem. It does not display? "-3" when no signal is input. It shows "1" and does not respond to the calibrator. The only active devices left are the display drivers and a 7404 on the front panel push button assy. It seems to me that it could well be the culprit. everything has been tested against a good head, cable and meter, so none of those is the problem. And if a display driver were bad, that would only affect the digit associated with it, right?? Something in the actual frame itself...
Anyone seen this before?
TIA
Jeff
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Frequency Counter 5340A
Gentlemen,
I have a Model 5340A frequency counter with the? 001 option ( High Stability Oscillator)? This option is powered from a transformer Marked 9100-3021 One of the primary windings has gone open circuit and I need to replace the transformer. I can't find the specifications for this transformer. What I need to know is the voltage rating of the two secondary windings. Looking at the schematic? on page 7-14 of the service manual leads me to suspect they are not the same value. Can anyone help me identify what the secondary voltage is for each winding> Thanks David ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
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Re: E5071C the program can't working
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýIt sounds like someone deleted the licenses before selling the instrument. ? Best bet is to contact Keysight Service, ? They may be able to restore the licensing or if the customer transferred the RTU licenses to another analyzer its likely that
it will be necessary to rebuy them. ? In which you have a parts machine as the licenses frequently are in the 5 figure range?
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýPad 4 is definitely messed up. ? I wonder if that outfit Greg just mentioned would sell parts for self-repair? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Nicolas Mailloux
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 5:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? Inducing 1v DC at the output with a 50 Ohm terminator (using a T adapter, one end is connected to terminator, the other is the DC feed through a 50ohm coax and the other end is connected to the output of the ATT). ? I get about the same readings : PAD 2 and 3 close to 51ohm, PAD 4 is 62ohm. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ozan ? 50-ohm termination is needed to get the correct attenuation but for measuring resistances it is not needed.?
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýInducing 1v DC at the output with a 50 Ohm terminator (using a T adapter, one end is connected to terminator, the other is the DC feed through a 50ohm coax and the other end is connected to the output of the ATT). ? I get about the same readings : PAD 2 and 3 close to 51ohm, PAD 4 is 62ohm. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Ozan
Sent: 20 janvier 2022 14:42 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? 50-ohm termination is needed to get the correct attenuation but for measuring resistances it is not needed.?
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
If you can all afford it and require precision operation of your spectrum analyzer these guys provide immaculate service for attenuators.? I have used them for repairs and receive back a like-new unit complete with parameter plots of the repaired device. ? Dabbling while trying to repair these attenuators never leads to having a factory spec unit again.? These guys may be a bit pricey but it is well worth it. ? ? Greg |
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBTW, I was wrong about a 40 dB section, which I discovered after looking at the Service Guide. There is such a section in that model. I suspect that since it only had to meet performance specs up to 2.9 GHz, the leakage wasn¡¯t a big issue. I am usually dealing with frequencies at 10 GHz or higher and that was what I was thinking here. Sorry. ? ¡°Õ´Ç³¾ ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of n8zmTWH@...
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 2:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? The through readings will vary with the value of the attenuation, but the to-ground readings should all be close to 50 Ohms with a 50 Ohm termination in place, as you said you did. ? I took a quick look on Keysight¡¯s website for that model of attenuator, and it is obsolete. There doesn¡¯t seem to be a replacement recommendation. I ran out of time but will dig a little deeper to see if the substrates are still available for it. ? Tom. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Nicolas Mailloux ? Ozan?: These measurements are from input to output. PAD 2 : 81.69 ohm PAD 3 : 98.04 ohm PAD 4 : 51.65 ohm ? These are from input to ground : PAD 2 : 51.05 ohm PAD 3 : 49.95 ohm PAD 4 : 60.96 Ohm ? There are from output to ground : PAD 2 : 51.10 PAD 3 : 50.16 PAD 4 : 61.23 ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ozan ? On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 07:58 AM, Nicolas Mailloux wrote:
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThe through readings will vary with the value of the attenuation, but the to-ground readings should all be close to 50 Ohms with a 50 Ohm termination in place, as you said you did. ? I took a quick look on Keysight¡¯s website for that model of attenuator, and it is obsolete. There doesn¡¯t seem to be a replacement recommendation. I ran out of time but will dig a little deeper to see if the substrates are still available for it. ? Tom. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Nicolas Mailloux
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? Ozan?: These measurements are from input to output. PAD 2 : 81.69 ohm PAD 3 : 98.04 ohm PAD 4 : 51.65 ohm ? These are from input to ground : PAD 2 : 51.05 ohm PAD 3 : 49.95 ohm PAD 4 : 60.96 Ohm ? There are from output to ground : PAD 2 : 51.10 PAD 3 : 50.16 PAD 4 : 61.23 ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ozan ? On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 07:58 AM, Nicolas Mailloux wrote:
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
50-ohm termination is needed to get the correct attenuation but for measuring resistances it is not needed.?
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From your earlier measurements it looks like: PAD2 is 20dB section PAD3 is 40dB section PAD4 is 10dB section If we treat each section as a pi attenuator (I don't know if it is valid with these units) expected values with open termination are? 10dB section (PAD4?) input or output to ground 61.11ohm Across 51.95 20dB section (PAD2?) input or output to ground 51ohm Across 81.8ohm 40dB section (PAD3?) input or output to ground ~50ohm Across 98-ohm Doesn't look like there is a gross failure.? Next you can do a DC attenuation check. Apply 1V DC to one side of 40dB attenuator and measure the voltage at the other side while terminating to 50-ohm. Correct voltage is 10mV, from scope measurements we expect wrong value of ~ 20mV. Then swap the input and output side and do the same. This will tell at least at DC if the attenuation is correct.? Ozan ? ? On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 11:21 AM, Nicolas Mailloux wrote:
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Martin
Alexandre Souza