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Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

I¡¯m not defending her in any way, but Ms Fiorina did not join HP until after the Agilent spinoff.

From Tom Holmes, N8ZM

On Sep 4, 2024, at 9:37 AM, Wilko Bulte <wkb@...> wrote:

?Got to shake hands with Fiorina whilst building an HP tradeshow. Careful count revealed no missing fingers ?
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

"Customer goodwill" used to be considered an intangible but the new B-school scheme is to directly monetize that in the short term ignoring long term effects.? Another words, monetize past reputation and goodwill to improve this quarter's bottom line regardless of whether that destroys the goodwill.

On 9/4/2024 9:26 AM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote:
I've had multiple businesses through the years - of all varieties, LLC, Corp C, Corp B, etc. - and given it's relatively easy in the US to start a business (though it varies state by state, including the cost obligations, which being yearly, can dramatically impact the calculations along other considerations), and that it's trivial to purchase?a domain and offer a more professional face, I never felt much of an nuisance to have at least one of the two (the latter) active, even if the first may have lapsed given which state I was living in and other contingencies.

Obviously, there's more foul stuff being described here than what just that would cure (and it reinforces my decision against considering Keysight for some new equipment buys, when I occasionally?considered this, and instead stay the course of repairing and restoring their incredible old products, frequently with the amazing help of communities such as this). But having a business email address is, in my opinion, a baseline requirement for dealing with any professional entity (essentially, as equals), and again, an easily achievable and at a very low cost exigency. I just mean to say it's an easy aspect to get out of the way. Having a website hasn't been something I've always had the resources or the time to provide myself with, and I feel KS specifically checking on that crosses into nitpicking territory. I've dealt with completely legit outfits in my professional life (contractors, even consultants, etc.) that never had a website for their firm. I've been getting, at times, three to thirteen calls a week by different parties to build it for me though.

Others have described, here and elsewhere, the wild variations of how these large entities interact with some of us here (contacting them from our garage or corporate lab). A standout for me is Fluke, which will swifthly get you to at least their customer relations?engineer (I forget the exact title), who will talk to you with not even a whiff of a hint they object to spending their time having that conversation, follow up duly, investigate internally when that's warranted, etc. Just outstandingly professional, competent, respectful, and helpful communication. Both Keysight and Fluke (but not R&S, as far as I'm aware...) are honorable enough they provide PDFs of SMs, the "old enough" component-level, for most/all of their old units (though I wish their quality would be better, which seems to be such an easy thing to improve on), but the rest of it is wildly divergent. Unfortunately, this also means at least Keysight - and I feel, probably, also Tektronix, though I have much less knowledge of them as things stand today - is digging a hole for themselves during incredibly competitive times and no one can really predict where we're heading. Just running on the cache of their past value and history, even if they still make some of the best and most sophisticated pieces of equipment and instrumentation out there, in my opinion, just means time will be the great equalizer. We've seen the Siglents and the Rigols and the rest of the pack catching up year by year by year.
Radu.

On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 5:44?AM oldtestgear via groups.io <> <phil@...> wrote:

Keysight will repair the E44xx series of sensors but at a very high cost.
I had one repaired in February at a cost of ?1560 inc VAT with a 90
warranty.? Still cheaper than an unknown on eBay but painful. They only
deal with me because I set up a company? just to get a few DMMs
calibrated. A job they had been happily doing for years until the change
of policy.
Phil
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

On 9/4/24 06:05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
'Princess Fiorina' was a Ferengi!
I always suspected.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

Got to shake hands with Fiorina whilst building an HP tradeshow. Careful count revealed no missing fingers ?
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

I've had multiple businesses through the years - of all varieties, LLC, Corp C, Corp B, etc. - and given it's relatively easy in the US to start a business (though it varies state by state, including the cost obligations, which being yearly, can dramatically impact the calculations along other considerations), and that it's trivial to purchase?a domain and offer a more professional face, I never felt much of an nuisance to have at least one of the two (the latter) active, even if the first may have lapsed given which state I was living in and other contingencies.?

Obviously, there's more foul stuff being described here than what just that would cure (and it reinforces my decision against considering Keysight for some new equipment buys, when I occasionally?considered this, and instead stay the course of repairing and restoring their incredible old products, frequently with the amazing help of communities such as this). But having a business email address is, in my opinion, a baseline requirement for dealing with any professional entity (essentially, as equals), and again, an easily achievable and at a very low cost exigency. I just mean to say it's an easy aspect to get out of the way. Having a website hasn't been something I've always had the resources or the time to provide myself with, and I feel KS specifically checking on that crosses into nitpicking territory. I've dealt with completely legit outfits in my professional life (contractors, even consultants, etc.) that never had a website for their firm. I've been getting, at times, three to thirteen calls a week by different parties to build it for me though.?

Others have described, here and elsewhere, the wild variations of how these large entities interact with some of us here (contacting them from our garage or corporate lab). A standout for me is Fluke, which will swifthly get you to at least their customer relations?engineer (I forget the exact title), who will talk to you with not even a whiff of a hint they object to spending their time having that conversation, follow up duly, investigate internally when that's warranted, etc. Just outstandingly professional, competent, respectful, and helpful communication. Both Keysight and Fluke (but not R&S, as far as I'm aware...) are honorable enough they provide PDFs of SMs, the "old enough" component-level, for most/all of their old units (though I wish their quality would be better, which seems to be such an easy thing to improve on), but the rest of it is wildly divergent. Unfortunately, this also means at least Keysight - and I feel, probably, also Tektronix, though I have much less knowledge of them as things stand today - is digging a hole for themselves during incredibly competitive times and no one can really predict where we're heading. Just running on the cache of their past value and history, even if they still make some of the best and most sophisticated pieces of equipment and instrumentation out there, in my opinion, just means time will be the great equalizer. We've seen the Siglents and the Rigols and the rest of the pack catching up year by year by year.?
Radu.?

On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 5:44?AM oldtestgear via <phil=[email protected]> wrote:
Keysight will repair the E44xx series of sensors but at a very high cost. I had one repaired in February at a cost of ?1560 inc VAT with a 90 warranty.? Still cheaper than an unknown on eBay but painful. They only deal with me because I set up a company? just to get a few DMMs calibrated. A job they had been happily doing for years until the change of policy.?
?
Phil
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

Keysight will repair the E44xx series of sensors but at a very high cost. I had one repaired in February at a cost of ?1560 inc VAT with a 90 warranty.? Still cheaper than an unknown on eBay but painful. They only deal with me because I set up a company? just to get a few DMMs calibrated. A job they had been happily doing for years until the change of policy.?
?
Phil
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

A few companies here in the states have balked at my personal gmail.? Some are fine after giving them one of my various company emails where I work or consult and then they go back to using my personal email when I respond faster there.? A couple companies over the years insist on only using a company email and I've lost touch with them as I've worked with a number of startups which have disappeared along with their emails.

Stupid policies may have stupid results.? Very, very few companies have products so unique there aren't alternatives.

Peter

On 9/4/2024 4:14 AM, Robert G8RPI via groups.io wrote:
While "right to repair" may be part of it, the bigger issue with selling to "consumers" is thet many HPAK products are safety and or EMC certified to professional / idustrial standards so the lawers are technically correct in saying they can't sell those to consumers and it's easier to do a blanket ban. They should have an avenue for professional individuals. Arguably, in the UK at least licenced radio amateurs are "competent" to use such items from a EMI point at least.
Interestingly in the UK Raspberry Pi limited terms and conditions clearly state that they are B2B only. However they sell to anyone and have a retail shop in Cambridge. I asked in the shop and they said the T&C on the website were the only ones.
Keysight have lost my business personally (not much :-) ) but I have also moved any work purchases awayfrom them. In both cases R&S is the main alternative.
Robert.
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

'Princess Fiorina' was a Ferengi!

On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 3:44?AM Tom Gardner via <tggzzz=[email protected]> wrote:
On Wed, 4 Sept 2024 at 01:59, Nik Milosevic via <wolfy007=[email protected]> wrote:
Yeah, the "HP Way" is long gone it seems.
?
Funny enough this is still on the HP website it seems:

Princess Fiorina explicitly ended the HP Way, and replaced it with the incomprehensible "Rules of the Garage".? Everybody felt it was like a (female) dog moving in and marking its territory. I decided to start looking for employment elsewhere.

Having said that, there's an argument that the many "Bill and Dave" anecdotes were as effective at promulgating the concepts as any dry rules.?

Apart from that, it is good to see companies keeping historical documents available for all to see.
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

On Wed, 4 Sept 2024 at 09:14, Robert G8RPI via <robert8rpi=[email protected]> wrote:
While "right to repair" may be part of it, the bigger issue with selling to "consumers" is thet many HPAK products are safety and or EMC certified to professional / idustrial standards so the lawers are technically correct in saying they can't sell those to consumers and it's easier to do a blanket ban. They should have an avenue for professional individuals. Arguably, in the UK at least licenced radio amateurs are "competent" to use such items from a EMI point at least.
Interestingly in the UK Raspberry Pi limited terms and conditions clearly state that they are B2B only. However they sell to anyone and have a retail shop in Cambridge. I asked in the shop and they said the T&C on the website were the only ones.
Keysight have lost my business personally (not much :-) ) but I have also moved any work purchases awayfrom them. In both cases R&S is the main alternative.
?
Robert.
I wonder where UK Raspberry Pi Ltd would stand if a consumer took them to court.?UK Raspberry Pi Ltd are clearly doing this B2B thing to escape consumer regulations, and blatantly doing that sort of thing could get them into problems. With Keysight it's clearly very different, as the products are aimed at a professional market and Keysight are actively stopping dealing with consumers. But Raspberry Pi's are used extensively in schools, and as you say,?UK Raspberry Pi Ltd will sell to anyone.


Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

While "right to repair" may be part of it, the bigger issue with selling to "consumers" is thet many HPAK products are safety and or EMC certified to professional / idustrial standards so the lawers are technically correct in saying they can't sell those to consumers and it's easier to do a blanket ban. They should have an avenue for professional individuals. Arguably, in the UK at least licenced radio amateurs are "competent" to use such items from a EMI point at least.
Interestingly in the UK Raspberry Pi limited terms and conditions clearly state that they are B2B only. However they sell to anyone and have a retail shop in Cambridge. I asked in the shop and they said the T&C on the website were the only ones.
Keysight have lost my business personally (not much :-) ) but I have also moved any work purchases awayfrom them. In both cases R&S is the main alternative.
?
Robert.
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

On Tue, 3 Sept 2024 at 21:22, Harold Foster via <halfoster=[email protected]> wrote:
If you are *not* a large corporate client you can pretty much give up on it.? A fairly long discussion was here:
?
?
While keysight no doubt has what, to them, are valid reasons to completely abandon and non corporate customer I personally feel that this is quite short sighted of them especially considering that there are many. many alternatives that have equal if not better performance - with excellent customer service for *all* buyers and all at a fraction of the cost.?

Hal
?
You do not need to be a large corporate buyer to deal with Keysight. My limited liability company is not large - I am the only director and currently the only employee. But the company has had none of these sorts of problems dealing with Keysight, despite individuals in the UK having problems. I believe in the UK at least, Keysight will deal with any limited liability company, as it's clearly a business to business transaction.?

I suspect if one sets up a webpage as Fred Blogs Consultancy, Keysight will deal with you. However, it does look a bit unprofessional if you have a hotmail/gmail email address, so that might raise a few eyebrows. That said, my old vet


still uses an email. (For what it's worth, I had no problems with the vet, but a new veterinary surgery moved just across the road from me, so I thought it prudent to change vets, as a local vet would be better in an emergency.)

Dr. David Kirkby
Director, Kirkby Microwave Ltd.
--
Dr David Kirkby Ph.D
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Email: drkirkby@...
Web:
Telephone 07910 441670 (UK) or +44 7910 441670 (international)
Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892.?
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

On Wed, 4 Sept 2024 at 01:59, Nik Milosevic via <wolfy007=[email protected]> wrote:
Yeah, the "HP Way" is long gone it seems.
?
Funny enough this is still on the HP website it seems:

Princess Fiorina explicitly ended the HP Way, and replaced it with the incomprehensible "Rules of the Garage".? Everybody felt it was like a (female) dog moving in and marking its territory. I decided to start looking for employment elsewhere.

Having said that, there's an argument that the many "Bill and Dave" anecdotes were as effective at promulgating the concepts as any dry rules.?

Apart from that, it is good to see companies keeping historical documents available for all to see.
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

I got exactly the same runaround with my HP3852, from HP Finland,? so I asked in the Agilent/Keysignt groups and someone at Keysight even found me an upgrade ROM pack and sent it free of charge. I suggest you try the forums as there seems to be at least some old HP employees lurking there.
?
It was, as I said free of charge, but I did send them a gift in return.
Re: Schottky Diode degradation / Replacement in instrument Sram Battery backup circuits ?

 

On Mon, Sep 2, 2024 at 09:11 PM, Edward Prest wrote:
Is this failure is related to having a few uA running through the metal junction for decades?
Personally, if it took 30+ years to get so leaky, then I would still replace it with a new schottky - and a new battery.?
?
?
You beat me to it!
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

Oops $50k US not $50.
?
Russ
?
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

Yeah, the "HP Way" is long gone it seems.
?
Funny enough this is still on the HP website it seems: https://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1977_07.pdf
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

Yes, unfortunately Keysight << Agilent << HP.? ? ? ?Jim Ford, Laguna Hills, California, USA?


On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 5:29 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher
<vondicher@...> wrote:
"That seemed to loosen some parts out of them"

The stick?.... ;)

Radu.?

On Tue, Sep 3, 2024, 4:24 PM victor.silva via <daejon1=[email protected]> wrote:
Ha, with each name change they deviate further from Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard - so sad to see.
?
I too encountered a similar situation when trying to obtain parts for a 3458A DMM.
I have a home based business and they actually looked me up on Google satellite map, and "hey, this is a house".
I eventually did provide a business website and business based domain name email.
.?
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

"That seemed to loosen some parts out of them"

The stick?.... ;)

Radu.?


On Tue, Sep 3, 2024, 4:24 PM victor.silva via <daejon1=[email protected]> wrote:
Ha, with each name change they deviate further from Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard - so sad to see.
?
I too encountered a similar situation when trying to obtain parts for a 3458A DMM.
I have a home based business and they actually looked me up on Google satellite map, and "hey, this is a house".
I eventually did provide a business website and business based domain name email.
.?
Re: Keysight customer support policy

 

Ha, with each name change they deviate further from Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard - so sad to see.
?
I too encountered a similar situation when trying to obtain parts for a 3458A DMM.
I have a home based business and they actually looked me up on Google satellite map, and "hey, this is a house".
I eventually did provide a business website and business based domain name email.
That seemed to loosen some parts out of them.?
E444X SA CLIP information

 

I don't suppose anyone knows of a source of schematics/CLIP information for this series of SA or is it just too modern?
?
Having repaired the PSU, I've got a number of calibration errors which suggest to me possibly an issue with an LO other than 1st LO (possibly the 2nd LO).? The only schematic the service manual deigns to include is the backplane which was helpful for fixing the PSU.
?
I like the fact that CAD meant including diagrams in manuals was harder than when they were drawn by hand!? But as a one time resident of Hanover Street, Palo Alto, it is amusing to see the 3000 Hanover Street address pop up on startup.? In many ways this seems to have similarities with the 16700 LA mainframe.
?
I'll take it to visit a trusty HP141 + 8555 to see if the 2nd LO is working properly as at 3.6GHz.
?
Alan
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