I often wonder that instead of trackage rights if they had received ownership to Buffalo, Allentown, Oak Island, and maybe even Harrisburg, and they didn't need to rely on Conrail traffic control if they would have had better odds.? But then again, I guess once you figure in track and ROW maintenance etc., maybe it wouldn't have helped.? Obviously Conrail was set up not to fail, so to add any type of real competition for it would have been counterproductive.? D&H probably would still have ended up under NS ownership by now anyway.
?- Mark
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I'm sure someone else (Gordon Smith?) can give you a better and more accurate timeline, but the D&H trains to and from Pot Yard moved with D&H crews all the way, moving via Harrisburg and down the Port Road.? I don't believe Conrail crews were involved - D&H had trackage rights and exercised them. If I remember correctly,? pre-Conrail, NE-84 and 87 originally moved to and from Pot Yard via Philadelphia/ Park Jct with Reading and B&O crews.
Wow didn't realize it lasted that late.? I guess D&H paired up with Conrail pools....
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Wow didn't realize it lasted that late.? I guess D&H paired up with Conrail pools....
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Mark,
The last entry for NE84/87 in Dad's time book is 9/20/81 so it ran at least to that date.
Ed
On Monday, January 20, 2020, 12:31:34 PM UTC, mmatt378@... <mmatt378@...> wrote:
Did this train get abolished in 1976 after ConRail and what replaced NE-84/NE-87 once it was abolished?
Thanks,
Mark
-- Ed Cox
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Did this train get abolished in 1976 after ConRail and what replaced NE-84/NE-87 once it was abolished?
Thanks,
Mark
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Dick Cooper Time Book - Whitehall 1968
8/15/68 WR1, power 709-708-707, through freight rate, marked on Oneonta 10:45 AM, marked off Whitehall 2.45 PM, on duty 4:00, paid $31.40 for 130 Miles, R. Gallespee engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1975
8/25/75 WR1, power N&W 8524-8535-8515-8533-8531, through freight rate, marked on Oneonta 9:00 PM, 15" initial terminal delay, marked off Whitehall 6:00 AM, on duty 9:00, paid $68.01 for 146 miles, Jack A. Farrell engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
6/25/52 Lower End Yard, power 3012, yard rate, marked on Mechanicville 4:00 PM, marked off Mechanicville 11:59 PM, on duty 7:59, paid $14.55 for 100 miles, Quinlan engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Dick Cooper Time Book - Guilford Error
12/20/84 Regular day off.
12/21/84 PYRP, power B&M 202-MEC 255-D&H 414-B&M 210, through freight rate, marked on Mechanicville 10:00 PM, taxi to Mohawk, 35" initial terminal delay, marked off Rouses Point 9:00 AM, on duty 11:00, paid $243.23 for 235 miles, Cooper engineer, no fireman, Dave "Da Da" Waters conductor.
Ed Cox
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1960s
3/25/60 Layed in.
3/26/60 SC15, power 4096-4106, yard rate, marked on Plattsburgh 9:00 AM, marked off Plattsburgh 6:35 PM, on duty 9:35, paid $26.69 for 120 miles, H.W. Baker engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Good Morning:
For those who may not have been able to open my attachment, I have uploaded the file to the groups page (thank you Admin Scott for the help).? The reason why I am asking the status of class books after 1970 is that the Bridge Line Historical Society has loaned me books that are up to 1969/1970.? Were any locomotive drawings included in the books that was created in 1976 that included the freight cars, work cars and cabooses that went to the D&H with the Conrail creation?
Chris
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Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC Catskill Mountain Branch
8/1/47 #502, power Fx heavy class 4-6-0 811, passenger rate, marked on Oneonta 11:05 AM, marked off Kingston 4:10 PM, on duty 5:05, paid $9.04 for 106 miles, Burnett engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1970s
12/7/70 WR1, power 609-614-618, through freight rate, marked on Oneonta 9:30 AM, marked off Whitehall 2:30 PM, on duty 6:00, paid $34.71 for 130 miles, John T. Bowen engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Understood, where Hal Reiser's and Dominic Bourgeois' books are concerned.? Nothing could take away from them.? As for Jim Shaughnessy's book on this railroad, entitled "Delaware & Hudson: Bridge Line To New England And Canada," this is a comprehensive, definitive D&H corporate history.? Another of Jim Shaughnessy's books on the D&H is simply entitled, "Delaware & Hudson," a 488 page book published by Syracuse University Press.? Publications on this railroad are not limited to these three authors mentioned with other titles by some other authors to include:
"A Decade of D&H" by Karl R. Zimmerman, published by Delford Press
"Before Guilford" by Preston Cook, published by Old Line Graphics
"Delaware & Hudson Thunder & Lightning Stripes" by Jaime F.M. Serensits, published by The Railroad Press
"Delaware & Hudson Passenger Trains - The Final Decade" by Doug Lazette, published by Railroad Explorer
"Delaware & Hudson Challengers and Northerns" by Ed Crist and John Krause, published by J&D Studios, Inc
"PA4 Locomotive" by Norman E Anderson and C.G. MacDermot, publish by Chatham Publishing
"Delaware & Hudson Steam in Color" by Chuck Yungkurth, puiblished by Morning Sun Press
"Delaware & Hudson in Color - Volume 1" by David R. Sweetland, published by Morning Sun Press
"Delaware & Hudson in Color - Volume 2" by Jeremy F. Plant and Jeffrey G. Plant, published by Morning Sun Press
"Delaware & Hudson in Color - Volume 3" by Jeremy F. Plant and Jeffrey G. Plant, published by Morning Sun Press?
"Trackside in the Albany NY Gateway 1949 - 1974" by Len Kilian and Jim Odell, published by Morning Sun Press
"The PA Book" by William S. Young, published by Starrucca Valley Publications
These are just to name a few, with many more written on this railroad; some being quite inclusive and others being devote to just one type of locomotive, with yet others leaning towards being more pictorial in content.
Ray Wetzel
-----Original Message----- From: Ira Silverman via Groups.Io <marcrail1@...> To: DandH-Railroad < [email protected]> Sent: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 10:31 pm Subject: Re: [DandH-Railroad] Diesel Class Book(s) Two excellent books are: - Bridge Line Blues Delaware and Hudson 1976-1986 by Hal Reiser
- Delaware and Hudson Bridge Line Freight 1960-83 in two volumes by Dominic Bourgeois? This wonderful book is incredibly detailed going station by station and describing virtually every industry served by the railroad as well as the freight train operations.? Great pix too.
? I suspect they are both out of print and you may have to search on the internet including Ron¡¯s Books. ? Ira Silverman ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 7:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DandH-Railroad] Diesel Class Book(s) ? There are very few historical books published on railroads by the railroads.? As for the D&H and books written on it, your best source would be to go either to Amazon.com to find books on this railroad published by Howell-North Books publishers or go directly to this publisher for books on the Delaware & Hudson written by Jim Shaughnessy, who was best noted for such publications, and who's books Howell-North Books released.? There hasn't been anything more definitive written on the D&H than what Jim Shaughnessy wrote.?
Ray Wetzel -----Original Message-----
From: Chris <blhs209@...>
To: DandH-Railroad <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Jan 11, 2020 11:36 am
Subject: [DandH-Railroad] Diesel Class Book(s) Good Day:
Would anyone happen to know if the D&H produced any diesel class books after 1970?? If so, is there any source I would be able to access?
Chris Shepherd
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Two excellent books are: - Bridge Line Blues Delaware and Hudson 1976-1986 by Hal Reiser
- Delaware and Hudson Bridge Line Freight 1960-83 in two volumes by Dominic Bourgeois? This wonderful book is incredibly detailed going station by station and describing virtually every industry served by the railroad as well as the freight train operations.? Great pix too.
? I suspect they are both out of print and you may have to search on the internet including Ron¡¯s Books. ? Ira Silverman ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 7:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DandH-Railroad] Diesel Class Book(s) ? There are very few historical books published on railroads by the railroads.? As for the D&H and books written on it, your best source would be to go either to Amazon.com to find books on this railroad published by Howell-North Books publishers or go directly to this publisher for books on the Delaware & Hudson written by Jim Shaughnessy, who was best noted for such publications, and who's books Howell-North Books released.? There hasn't been anything more definitive written on the D&H than what Jim Shaughnessy wrote.?
Ray Wetzel -----Original Message-----
From: Chris <blhs209@...>
To: DandH-Railroad <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Jan 11, 2020 11:36 am
Subject: [DandH-Railroad] Diesel Class Book(s) Good Day:
Would anyone happen to know if the D&H produced any diesel class books after 1970?? If so, is there any source I would be able to access?
Chris Shepherd
|
SJW,
I have a half dozen of the books dated from 1905 to 1951. Contact me off group and we'll see how I can share them with you.
Ed Cox
On Monday, January 13, 2020, 10:28:21 PM UTC, Ed Cox via Groups.Io <edcox13@...> wrote:
Chris,
The most recent one of the books you referenced that I have is dated 1/1/1951. I was pretty sure that was what you were looking for. I have never seen a newer version. I also believe, If they were produced, Dad would have kept a copy.
After the steam engines were scrapped, books like this were not necessary for the crews. What Dad had after this point was a simple 8 1/2 X 11 piece of paper with the information listed by groups of engines.
Ed
On Monday, January 13, 2020, 10:15:37 PM UTC, Scott J. Whitney <sjwhitney@...> wrote:
Chris,
If you mange to locate some complete D&H Loco Class books, I would certainly like to add them to my already bulging database of Northeast RR's.? I have never run across the class books for D&H.? Obviously they had them as your image shows.
SJW
----- Original Message ----- From: Chris < blhs209@...> Reply-To: < [email protected]> To: < [email protected]> Sent: 01/13/20 07:36:05 Subject: Re: [DandH-Railroad] Diesel Class Book(s) ________________________________________________________________________________ Good Morning: Most of the books that have been mentioned, I already have those and they do not contain the information I am looking for.? On the off chance it works, I have attached an example of what I am looking for. If the attachment does not work, I will also try to add to the groups site for review (file name will be "roadswitcherRS3b.pdf"). Bill - thank you for the suggestion, I will contact Brad. Chris
--
Ed Cox
-- Ed Cox
|
Chris,
The most recent one of the books you referenced that I have is dated 1/1/1951. I was pretty sure that was what you were looking for. I have never seen a newer version. I also believe, If they were produced, Dad would have kept a copy.
After the steam engines were scrapped, books like this were not necessary for the crews. What Dad had after this point was a simple 8 1/2 X 11 piece of paper with the information listed by groups of engines.
Ed
On Monday, January 13, 2020, 10:15:37 PM UTC, Scott J. Whitney <sjwhitney@...> wrote:
Chris,
If you mange to locate some complete D&H Loco Class books, I would certainly like to add them to my already bulging database of Northeast RR's.? I have never run across the class books for D&H.? Obviously they had them as your image shows.
SJW
----- Original Message ----- From: Chris < blhs209@...> Reply-To: < [email protected]> To: < [email protected]> Sent: 01/13/20 07:36:05 Subject: Re: [DandH-Railroad] Diesel Class Book(s) ________________________________________________________________________________ Good Morning: Most of the books that have been mentioned, I already have those and they do not contain the information I am looking for.? On the off chance it works, I have attached an example of what I am looking for. If the attachment does not work, I will also try to add to the groups site for review (file name will be "roadswitcherRS3b.pdf"). Bill - thank you for the suggestion, I will contact Brad. Chris
-- Ed Cox
|
Chris,
If you mange to locate some complete D&H Loco Class books, I would certainly like to add them to my already bulging database of Northeast RR's. I have never run across the class books for D&H. Obviously they had them as your image shows.
SJW
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: Chris <blhs209@...> Reply-To: < [email protected]> To: < [email protected]> Sent: 01/13/20 07:36:05 Subject: Re: [DandH-Railroad] Diesel Class Book(s) ________________________________________________________________________________ Good Morning: Most of the books that have been mentioned, I already have those and they do not contain the information I am looking for. On the off chance it works, I have attached an example of what I am looking for. If the attachment does not work, I will also try to add to the groups site for review (file name will be "roadswitcherRS3b.pdf"). Bill - thank you for the suggestion, I will contact Brad. Chris
|
Good Morning:
Most of the books that have been mentioned, I already have those and they do not contain the information I am looking for.?? On the off chance it works, I have attached an example of what I am looking for.? If the attachment does not work, I will also try to add to the groups site for review (file name will be "roadswitcherRS3b.pdf").
Bill - thank you for the suggestion, I will contact Brad.
Chris
|
Yes, they did. Talk to Brad Peterson. He may be able to help you out.
EDFLD-Bill
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Ed Cox
Scott J. Whitney
Bill