Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
Ed --
? ? ?So this "double-header" went south from Watertown to DeWitt in 4 hours when it took 12 hours to come north! ?An ore train needing 2 locos? ?And staying on the main track when meeting any north-bounds?
? ? ?How much notice did he get that he was no longer going to be employed by the NYC?
? ? Is there any indication when the last steam-powered train worked the St. Lawrence Division?
Dave Simmons Watertown ?NY
10/11/48 Train BWx lite, engine watch on Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2783, train power Alco class L-2d 4-8-2 2967, through freight rate, marked on Watertown 10:00 AM, marked off DeWitt 2:00 PM, on duty 4:00, paid $10.96 for 100 miles, Kellogg engineer, Cooper engine watch.
?
Turned out to be Dad's last trip on NYC steam.
?
10/12-14/48 Layed off.
?
10/15/48 Reported back and notified cut off and furloughed.
?
Did not work the NYC again until 1957.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
10/11/48 Train BWx lite, engine watch on Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2783, train power Alco class L-2d 4-8-2 2967, through freight rate, marked on Watertown 10:00 AM, marked off DeWitt 2:00 PM, on duty 4:00, paid $10.96 for 100 miles, Kellogg engineer, Cooper engine watch.
?
Turned out to be Dad's last trip on NYC steam.
?
10/12-14/48 Layed off.
?
10/15/48 Reported back and notified cut off and furloughed.
?
Did not work the NYC again until 1957.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - Guilford Error
10/3/85 Regular day off.
?
10/4/85 PYRP, power B&M 691-361-317, through freight rate, marked on Mechanicville 11:00 PM, 20" initial terminal delay, power out of Mechanicville to train @ Mohawk, cut 691 @ Ft. Edward, marked off Rouses Point 10:15 AM, on duty 11:15, paid $266.97 for 257 miles, Cooper engineer, no fireman. J. Shook conductor.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1980s
6/19/80 WR7, power 7615-415-409, through freight rate, marked on Hudson 10:15 PM, 34" final terminal delay, marked off Oneonta 9:05 AM, on duty 10:50, paid $121.87 for 145 miles, Cooper engineer, no fireman, Tommy Flynn conductor.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1970s
5/17-18/71 Canceled due to signalmen's strike.
?
5/19/71 WR1, power 757-758-759, through freight rate, marked on Oneonta 8:30 AM, 1:40 initial terminal delay, 25" switching @ MX, 19" switching @ Saratoga, marked off Whitehall 5:50 PM, on duty 9:20, paid $52.04 for 169 miles, Stan Chapman engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1969
4/25/69 Rouses Point Yard, power 4075, yard rate, marked on Rouses Point 11:00 PM, marked off Rouses Point 7:00 AM, on duty 8:00, paid $28.04 for 100 miles, V.P. Laundrie engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1962
5/20-24/62 Layed off sick with the flu.
?
5/25-27/62 Layed in.
?
5/28/62 Rouses Point yard, power 4005, yard rate, marked on Rouses Point 2:30 PM, marked off Rouses Point 10:30 PM, on duty 8:00, paid $26.61 for 119 miles, E.J. Saunders engineer, Cooper fireman.
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WTB: Oriental Models HO Standard Version C-628 painted for the D&H
Not to be confused with the "Low Nose" version.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - Rio Grande
10/21/61 XE1 (extra east), power narrow gauge class K-37 2-8-2 499, local freight rate, marked on Chama 10:15 AM, 1:00 switching Chama, ran lite to Alamosa, marked off Alamosa 5:25 PM, on duty 7:10, paid $23.94 for 118 miles, C.T. Sisemore engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
Ed,
This helped a lot, because?I didn't catch on to the fact that it was a "work" train. I need to read these paying closer attention to the details.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill,.
No, they didn't do any meaningful switching between Mohawk and Cobleskill, except maybe to pick up some work equipment and/or repair supplies. The union contract apparently called for the "through freight rate" to be used on work trains, maybe because they had little work to do. Getting the equipment and section crews to and from the work site and maybe some moves as the work progressed were about the limit of their responsibility.
Hope this helps.
Ed
On Monday, July 29, 2024 at 10:06:07 AM EDT, Bill Phillips < mrbill.phil@...> wrote:
Ed,?
I really don't know hardly anything about?operations so I'm interested in how this worked. If this worked Cobleskill from Mohawk and it had a through freight rate does that mean there was no switching between Mohawk & Cobleskill? My modelling goal is to have a switching layout based on Cobleskill and I am always interested in what the prototype?moves would have been there.
Thanks for any info?
Bill Phillips 4/5/53 Layed in.
?
4/6/53 work Cobleskill, power 3015, through freight rate, marked on Mohawk 5:00 AM, marked off Mohawk 5:25 PM, on duty 12:25, paid $24.94 for 183 miles, Primett engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1960s
5/15/61 Marked up on Rouses Point extra list.
?
5/15/61 Rouses Point yard, power 4125, yard rate, marked on Rouses Point 3:00 PM, marked off Rouses Point 11:50 PM, on duty 8:00, paid $25.71 for 116 miles, E.J. Saunders engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
Bill,.
No, they didn't do any meaningful switching between Mohawk and Cobleskill, except maybe to pick up some work equipment and/or repair supplies. The union contract apparently called for the "through freight rate" to be used on work trains, maybe because they had little work to do. Getting the equipment and section crews to and from the work site and maybe some moves as the work progressed were about the limit of their responsibility.
Hope this helps.
Ed
On Monday, July 29, 2024 at 10:06:07 AM EDT, Bill Phillips <mrbill.phil@...> wrote:
Ed,?
I really don't know hardly anything about?operations so I'm interested in how this worked. If this worked Cobleskill from Mohawk and it had a through freight rate does that mean there was no switching between Mohawk & Cobleskill? My modelling goal is to have a switching layout based on Cobleskill and I am always interested in what the prototype?moves would have been there.
Thanks for any info?
Bill Phillips
4/5/53 Layed in.
?
4/6/53 work Cobleskill, power 3015, through freight rate, marked on Mohawk 5:00 AM, marked off Mohawk 5:25 PM, on duty 12:25, paid $24.94 for 183 miles, Primett engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
Ed,?
I really don't know hardly anything about?operations so I'm interested in how this worked. If this worked Cobleskill from Mohawk and it had a through freight rate does that mean there was no switching between Mohawk & Cobleskill? My modelling goal is to have a switching layout based on Cobleskill and I am always interested in what the prototype?moves would have been there.
Thanks for any info?
Bill Phillips
4/5/53 Layed in.
?
4/6/53 work Cobleskill, power 3015, through freight rate, marked on Mohawk 5:00 AM, marked off Mohawk 5:25 PM, on duty 12:25, paid $24.94 for 183 miles, Primett engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
4/5/53 Layed in.
?
4/6/53 work Cobleskill, power 3015, through freight rate, marked on Mohawk 5:00 AM, marked off Mohawk 5:25 PM, on duty 12:25, paid $24.94 for 183 miles, Primett engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
Dave,
I really have no idea why it took so long to make the trip. It's not likely they had to wait for the engines to be ready as it was usual for everything to have been ready for the road crew to get on, oil things up, get the steam pressure up, take a brake test and go. I suspect they were put "in the hole" a few times, waiting for traffic to clear.
I really enjoy sharing the info. Although I don't see many responses to what I post. I am always encouraged to keep them coming.
Have a great week.
Ed
On Sunday, July 28, 2024 at 06:42:32 PM EDT, Dave Simmons via groups.io <bdsimm7@...> wrote:
Ed --
? ? Even in the steam days, it wouldn't have taken 12 hours 10 minutes to get from DeWitt to Watertown! ?So much of that time was in DeWitt Yard. ?Did it take a lot more time to get the steam locos prepared to get out of the yard and on to the line than it does now with diesels? ?They probably had to wait somewhere for south-bounds. ?
? ? I wonder what percentage of the traffic south from Watertown to Syracuse (they probably bypassed DeWitt) was Benson Mines ore traffic, and what was everything else. ?I am glad to hear that most of the Canadian traffic went via Utica and the Adirondack Division.
? ? Thanks for all your information, D&H and NYC, as well as D&RGW NG.
Dave Simmons
10/9/48 Layed in.
?
10/10/48 B1Wx, engine watch on Alco class L-2d 4-8-2 2967, train power Alco class L-2c 4-8-2 2895, through freight rate, marked on DeWitt 11:30 AM, marked off Watertown 12:10 AM, on duty 12:40, paid $20.50 for 187 miles, Kellogg engineer, Cooper engine watch.
-- Ed Cox
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Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
Ed --
? ? Even in the steam days, it wouldn't have taken 12 hours 10 minutes to get from DeWitt to Watertown! ?So much of that time was in DeWitt Yard. ?Did it take a lot more time to get the steam locos prepared to get out of the yard and on to the line than it does now with diesels? ?They probably had to wait somewhere for south-bounds. ?
? ? I wonder what percentage of the traffic south from Watertown to Syracuse (they probably bypassed DeWitt) was Benson Mines ore traffic, and what was everything else. ?I am glad to hear that most of the Canadian traffic went via Utica and the Adirondack Division.
? ? Thanks for all your information, D&H and NYC, as well as D&RGW NG.
Dave Simmons
10/9/48 Layed in.
?
10/10/48 B1Wx, engine watch on Alco class L-2d 4-8-2 2967, train power Alco class L-2c 4-8-2 2895, through freight rate, marked on DeWitt 11:30 AM, marked off Watertown 12:10 AM, on duty 12:40, paid $20.50 for 187 miles, Kellogg engineer, Cooper engine watch.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
10/9/48 Layed in.
?
10/10/48 B1Wx, engine watch on Alco class L-2d 4-8-2 2967, train power Alco class L-2c 4-8-2 2895, through freight rate, marked on DeWitt 11:30 AM, marked off Watertown 12:10 AM, on duty 12:40, paid $20.50 for 187 miles, Kellogg engineer, Cooper engine watch.
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On Saturday, July 27, 2024 at 09:46:49 AM EDT, Bill Phillips <mrbill.phil@...> wrote:
The complete link for all who may be interested.?
Bill Phillips
On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 7:43?AM Bill Phillips via <mrbill.phil= [email protected]> wrote: Go to the anthracite roads historical society website and find the link for Lehigh Valley modelling. There is a complete section on horns used by the LV by model and sometimes by road number. My phone isn't cooperating so I am unable to paste the link. When I am near a computer I'll add it on this thread.
Thanks Bill. That's a big help. I thought so, but wasn't sure. Now I just need the ex-LV C-420 horn info.
Ed
On Friday, July 26, 2024 at 03:20:14 PM EDT, Bill Phillips < mrbill.phil@...> wrote:
Ed,
It had an M3RT-1 when it was on the D&H. I checked in "Lehigh & Hudson River A Link in a Great Chain" by Robert Yanosey and all the photographic evidence points to them being delivered with M3RT1. There is a picture of #21 in 1963 with the M3RT1. I saw no pictures with a different horn.
Bill Phillips Does anyone know what type of horn came on the ex-L&HR C-420 or the original 2 chime horns delivered on the ex-LV C-420's? I know some were converted to Nathan M-3R-T1s in the 80's.
?
Thanks
--
Ed Cox
--
Ed Cox
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For those who rely on this list - It appears that the original horns for LV C420 were Nathan P2RI although I have a note that indicates 408 originally had? a Nathan M3R1. I tend to doubt that that is the?case as I believe the LV 420's were built in a single lot and would not have different?equipment specifications.??
I believe they were all conveyed to the D&H with their origin horns. From the photographic research I have done it seems that the D&H started converting C420's to M3RT1's as early as 1977 (414). It looks like most of the rest were changed in the 1980-1981 time frame. Maybe the?D&H salvaged the horns from retired RS3's, but this is pure speculation on my part.
Bill Phillips
On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 7:43?AM Bill Phillips via <mrbill.phil= [email protected]> wrote: Go to the anthracite roads historical society website and find the link for Lehigh Valley modelling. There is a complete section on horns used by the LV by model and sometimes by road number. My phone isn't cooperating so I am unable to paste the link. When I am near a computer I'll add it on this thread.
Thanks Bill. That's a big help. I thought so, but wasn't sure. Now I just need the ex-LV C-420 horn info.
Ed
On Friday, July 26, 2024 at 03:20:14 PM EDT, Bill Phillips < mrbill.phil@...> wrote:
Ed,
It had an M3RT-1 when it was on the D&H. I checked in "Lehigh & Hudson River A Link in a Great Chain" by Robert Yanosey and all the photographic evidence points to them being delivered with M3RT1. There is a picture of #21 in 1963 with the M3RT1. I saw no pictures with a different horn.
Bill Phillips Does anyone know what type of horn came on the ex-L&HR C-420 or the original 2 chime horns delivered on the ex-LV C-420's? I know some were converted to Nathan M-3R-T1s in the 80's.
?
Thanks
--
Ed Cox
|
The complete link for all who may be interested.?
Bill Phillips
On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 7:43?AM Bill Phillips via <mrbill.phil= [email protected]> wrote: Go to the anthracite roads historical society website and find the link for Lehigh Valley modelling. There is a complete section on horns used by the LV by model and sometimes by road number. My phone isn't cooperating so I am unable to paste the link. When I am near a computer I'll add it on this thread.
Thanks Bill. That's a big help. I thought so, but wasn't sure. Now I just need the ex-LV C-420 horn info.
Ed
On Friday, July 26, 2024 at 03:20:14 PM EDT, Bill Phillips < mrbill.phil@...> wrote:
Ed,
It had an M3RT-1 when it was on the D&H. I checked in "Lehigh & Hudson River A Link in a Great Chain" by Robert Yanosey and all the photographic evidence points to them being delivered with M3RT1. There is a picture of #21 in 1963 with the M3RT1. I saw no pictures with a different horn.
Bill Phillips Does anyone know what type of horn came on the ex-L&HR C-420 or the original 2 chime horns delivered on the ex-LV C-420's? I know some were converted to Nathan M-3R-T1s in the 80's.
?
Thanks
--
Ed Cox
|
Ed Cox