Dick Cooper Time Book - 1960s
4/29-5/13/61 Furloughed.
?
5/14/61 Plattsburg yard, power 4028, yard-local freight rate, marked on Plattsburg 7:00 AM, marked off Plattsburg 4:00 PM, on duty 9:00, paid $26.85 for 119 miles, W.B. Barber engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - with E.B. King
8/9/64 Plattsburg yard, power 4070, yard-local freight rate, marked on Plattsburg 6:30 AM, marked off Plattsburg 2:30 PM, on duty 8:00, paid $23.26 for 100 miles, E.B. King engineer, Cooper fireman.
?
This was his last rip with E.B. King.
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Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
Dave,
Very interesting info on the coal trains in the area. I have little knowledge of what used to happen up that way then or now. I just know, there is a lot less moving on the rails then there was in the past. You would think we would back revert to the rails to save on the use of oil in all those trucks doing the job now and the pollution they create. Not a political statement. Just a fact.
Have a great weekend.
Ed
On Friday, July 19, 2024 at 10:13:02 AM EDT, Dave Simmons via groups.io <bdsimm7@...> wrote:
Ed --
? ? Thanks for this explanation. ?So it really wasn't a double header after all! ?This way of moving power around would seem to be the best way economically!
? ? ?NYC did use "doubleheaders" to move coal from PA via Corning, Lyons, DeWitt, and Richland to Oswego when I was growing us there in the 1950s. ?Sometimes, the local switcher which had gone out to the East end of town earlier in the day, would return on the front of an incoming coal train, running backwards and sometimes with a few cars in between. ?Oh, for a camera to record all that! ?Plus the DL&W which still had steam and the NYO&W which was all diesel.
? ? ? ? ?The coal was transferred from the NYC to the DL&W in the West Yard where they were side-by-side. ?The DL&W would take it down in 10-12 car trains to the coal dock in the harbor to be shipped on to Canada, probably to Kingston, ON. ?
? ? ? ? Meanwhile, the "Fontana", would bring PA coal from Sodus Point at the end of the PRR's Elmira Branch, to Oswego to the Niagara-Mohawk Power Plant. ?There, at one time, it was reputed to have the largest coal pile in the USA! ?That would be in the fall, as the harbor was ice-blocked during the winter.?
? ? ? ? ?There is a little bit of history for you!
Dave Simmons?
Good morning Dave,
It was probably only a double header going north with the 2582 being the power in the lead with an engineer and fireman and the 2751 being towed under steam with only Dad as the "engine watch". The reason for Dad being on board the 2751 was to monitor and maintain the fire and water. He would have been an extra fireman on the 2785 going south.
Being paid the "local freight rate" means they picked up or dropped off cars at a minimum of three different places along the way. Less then that would warrant the "through freight rate" which was less money.
I don't believe double heading was necessary. The 2751 was under steam but really only along for the ride. I imagine Watertown was short of power and they were getting more power there as cheaply as possible. Being towed and "watched" only required paying a fireman. Running it lite to Watertown would have also required paying an engineer up and back.
I hope this all hepls.
Ed
On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 09:05:05 AM EDT, Dave Simmons via groups.io <bdsimm7@...> wrote:
Ed --
? ? ? ? ?This is interesting! ? This must have been a double-header in both directions. ?Being paid at the local freight rate, does that mean that they worked switching at various places along the way? ?Pulaski? ?Richland at the Rome line? ?Adams? ?I suspect you can only guess as your Dad wrote down nothing more. ?
? ? ? ? ?Also, was he "on watch" on the 2nd engine going north, then fireman "assistant" on the lead engine going south? ?Being on watch must mean watching the gauges, etc., and/or watching out the left side of the cab. ?I'm presuming he 2nd engine would have an engineer and fireman. ??
? ? ?They would have gone by what I can "hear" now from my back yard. ?I can't see anything any more (except in winter) because of the foliage. ?The yard and engine facilities were a little further north then than they are now.
? ? I wonder why double-heading was necessary. ?The line seems pretty flat and level. ?Probably there are hills that don't readily appear.
Dave ??
Dave
? ?
10/8/48 B1Wx/DWx, power Alco class L-1b 4-8-2 2582 on B1Wx, Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2785 on DWx, local freight rate, marked on DeWitt 11:45 AM, Cooper engine watch on Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2751 on train B1Wx, marked off DeWitt 2:15 AM, on duty 14:30, paid $25.22 for 222 miles, S. Isham engineer, Cooper engine watch/fireman.
?
This was a turn job with B1Wx going north to Watertown and DWx going south back to DeWitt. Dad would have been assigned the engine watch on the 2751 going north. He probably assisted the fireman on the 2785 going south.
--
Ed Cox
-- Ed Cox
|
Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
Ed --
? ? Thanks for this explanation. ?So it really wasn't a double header after all! ?This way of moving power around would seem to be the best way economically!
? ? ?NYC did use "doubleheaders" to move coal from PA via Corning, Lyons, DeWitt, and Richland to Oswego when I was growing us there in the 1950s. ?Sometimes, the local switcher which had gone out to the East end of town earlier in the day, would return on the front of an incoming coal train, running backwards and sometimes with a few cars in between. ?Oh, for a camera to record all that! ?Plus the DL&W which still had steam and the NYO&W which was all diesel.
? ? ? ? ?The coal was transferred from the NYC to the DL&W in the West Yard where they were side-by-side. ?The DL&W would take it down in 10-12 car trains to the coal dock in the harbor to be shipped on to Canada, probably to Kingston, ON. ?
? ? ? ? Meanwhile, the "Fontana", would bring PA coal from Sodus Point at the end of the PRR's Elmira Branch, to Oswego to the Niagara-Mohawk Power Plant. ?There, at one time, it was reputed to have the largest coal pile in the USA! ?That would be in the fall, as the harbor was ice-blocked during the winter.?
? ? ? ? ?There is a little bit of history for you!
Dave Simmons?
Good morning Dave,
It was probably only a double header going north with the 2582 being the power in the lead with an engineer and fireman and the 2751 being towed under steam with only Dad as the "engine watch". The reason for Dad being on board the 2751 was to monitor and maintain the fire and water. He would have been an extra fireman on the 2785 going south.
Being paid the "local freight rate" means they picked up or dropped off cars at a minimum of three different places along the way. Less then that would warrant the "through freight rate" which was less money.
I don't believe double heading was necessary. The 2751 was under steam but really only along for the ride. I imagine Watertown was short of power and they were getting more power there as cheaply as possible. Being towed and "watched" only required paying a fireman. Running it lite to Watertown would have also required paying an engineer up and back.
I hope this all hepls.
Ed
On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 09:05:05 AM EDT, Dave Simmons via groups.io <bdsimm7@...> wrote:
Ed --
? ? ? ? ?This is interesting! ? This must have been a double-header in both directions. ?Being paid at the local freight rate, does that mean that they worked switching at various places along the way? ?Pulaski? ?Richland at the Rome line? ?Adams? ?I suspect you can only guess as your Dad wrote down nothing more. ?
? ? ? ? ?Also, was he "on watch" on the 2nd engine going north, then fireman "assistant" on the lead engine going south? ?Being on watch must mean watching the gauges, etc., and/or watching out the left side of the cab. ?I'm presuming he 2nd engine would have an engineer and fireman. ??
? ? ?They would have gone by what I can "hear" now from my back yard. ?I can't see anything any more (except in winter) because of the foliage. ?The yard and engine facilities were a little further north then than they are now.
? ? I wonder why double-heading was necessary. ?The line seems pretty flat and level. ?Probably there are hills that don't readily appear.
Dave ??
Dave
? ?
10/8/48 B1Wx/DWx, power Alco class L-1b 4-8-2 2582 on B1Wx, Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2785 on DWx, local freight rate, marked on DeWitt 11:45 AM, Cooper engine watch on Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2751 on train B1Wx, marked off DeWitt 2:15 AM, on duty 14:30, paid $25.22 for 222 miles, S. Isham engineer, Cooper engine watch/fireman.
?
This was a turn job with B1Wx going north to Watertown and DWx going south back to DeWitt. Dad would have been assigned the engine watch on the 2751 going north. He probably assisted the fireman on the 2785 going south.
--
Ed Cox
|
Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
4/3/53 Layed in.
?
4/4/53 Mohawk yard, power 3012, yard rate, marked on Mohawk 2:30 PM, marked off Mohawk 10:30 PM, on duty 8:00, paid $14.79 for 100 miles, G. Austin engineer, Cooper fireman.
|
Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
Good morning Dave,
It was probably only a double header going north with the 2582 being the power in the lead with an engineer and fireman and the 2751 being towed under steam with only Dad as the "engine watch". The reason for Dad being on board the 2751 was to monitor and maintain the fire and water. He would have been an extra fireman on the 2785 going south.
Being paid the "local freight rate" means they picked up or dropped off cars at a minimum of three different places along the way. Less then that would warrant the "through freight rate" which was less money.
I don't believe double heading was necessary. The 2751 was under steam but really only along for the ride. I imagine Watertown was short of power and they were getting more power there as cheaply as possible. Being towed and "watched" only required paying a fireman. Running it lite to Watertown would have also required paying an engineer up and back.
I hope this all hepls.
Ed
On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 09:05:05 AM EDT, Dave Simmons via groups.io <bdsimm7@...> wrote:
Ed --
? ? ? ? ?This is interesting! ? This must have been a double-header in both directions. ?Being paid at the local freight rate, does that mean that they worked switching at various places along the way? ?Pulaski? ?Richland at the Rome line? ?Adams? ?I suspect you can only guess as your Dad wrote down nothing more. ?
? ? ? ? ?Also, was he "on watch" on the 2nd engine going north, then fireman "assistant" on the lead engine going south? ?Being on watch must mean watching the gauges, etc., and/or watching out the left side of the cab. ?I'm presuming he 2nd engine would have an engineer and fireman. ??
? ? ?They would have gone by what I can "hear" now from my back yard. ?I can't see anything any more (except in winter) because of the foliage. ?The yard and engine facilities were a little further north then than they are now.
? ? I wonder why double-heading was necessary. ?The line seems pretty flat and level. ?Probably there are hills that don't readily appear.
Dave ??
Dave
? ?
10/8/48 B1Wx/DWx, power Alco class L-1b 4-8-2 2582 on B1Wx, Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2785 on DWx, local freight rate, marked on DeWitt 11:45 AM, Cooper engine watch on Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2751 on train B1Wx, marked off DeWitt 2:15 AM, on duty 14:30, paid $25.22 for 222 miles, S. Isham engineer, Cooper engine watch/fireman.
?
This was a turn job with B1Wx going north to Watertown and DWx going south back to DeWitt. Dad would have been assigned the engine watch on the 2751 going north. He probably assisted the fireman on the 2785 going south.
-- Ed Cox
|
Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
Ed --
? ? ? ? ?This is interesting! ? This must have been a double-header in both directions. ?Being paid at the local freight rate, does that mean that they worked switching at various places along the way? ?Pulaski? ?Richland at the Rome line? ?Adams? ?I suspect you can only guess as your Dad wrote down nothing more. ?
? ? ? ? ?Also, was he "on watch" on the 2nd engine going north, then fireman "assistant" on the lead engine going south? ?Being on watch must mean watching the gauges, etc., and/or watching out the left side of the cab. ?I'm presuming he 2nd engine would have an engineer and fireman. ??
? ? ?They would have gone by what I can "hear" now from my back yard. ?I can't see anything any more (except in winter) because of the foliage. ?The yard and engine facilities were a little further north then than they are now.
? ? I wonder why double-heading was necessary. ?The line seems pretty flat and level. ?Probably there are hills that don't readily appear.
Dave ??
Dave
? ?
10/8/48 B1Wx/DWx, power Alco class L-1b 4-8-2 2582 on B1Wx, Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2785 on DWx, local freight rate, marked on DeWitt 11:45 AM, Cooper engine watch on Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2751 on train B1Wx, marked off DeWitt 2:15 AM, on duty 14:30, paid $25.22 for 222 miles, S. Isham engineer, Cooper engine watch/fireman.
?
This was a turn job with B1Wx going north to Watertown and DWx going south back to DeWitt. Dad would have been assigned the engine watch on the 2751 going north. He probably assisted the fireman on the 2785 going south.
|
Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC St. Lawrence Division
10/8/48 B1Wx/DWx, power Alco class L-1b 4-8-2 2582 on B1Wx, Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2785 on DWx, local freight rate, marked on DeWitt 11:45 AM, Cooper engine watch on Alco class L-2a 4-8-2 2751 on train B1Wx, marked off DeWitt 2:15 AM, on duty 14:30, paid $25.22 for 222 miles, S. Isham engineer, Cooper engine watch/fireman.
?
This was a turn job with B1Wx going north to Watertown and DWx going south back to DeWitt. Dad would have been assigned the engine watch on the 2751 going north. He probably assisted the fireman on the 2785 going south.
|
Dick Cooper Time Book - Guilford Error
9/30/85 Regular day off.
?
10/1/85 PYRP, power B&M 351-D&H 7405-B&M 364-MEC 285, through freight rate, marked on Mechanicville 8:00 PM, taxi to train @ Mohawk, marked off Rouses Point 7:45 AM, on duty 11:45, paid $238.08 for 246 miles, Cooper engineer, T. Vogt fireman/trainee, T. Heller conductor.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1980s
6/17/80 WR7, power 7615-7408-CR GP38-2 8234-8237, through freight rate, marked on Hudson 11:30 PM, marked off Oneonta 12:05 PM, on duty 12:35, paid $145.97 for 171 miles, Cooper engineer, no fireman, Tommy Flynn conductor.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1970s
5/15/71 WR1, power 704-709-754, through freight rate, marked on Oneonta 11:15 AM, 23" initial terminal delay, marked off Whitehall 4:45 PM, on duty 5:30, paid $41.35 for 135 miles, Stan Chapman engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1969
4/23/69 NJ 101-200, power NJ 4051, local freight rate, marked on Rouses Point 7:30 AM, marked off Rouses Point 4:10 PM, on duty 8:40, paid $35.82 for 112 miles, Cooper engineer, no fireman, E.R. Christie conductor.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1962
5/18/62 SC20, power 4118-4128-4074, local freight rate, marked on Rouses Point 5:45 AM, marked off Whitehall 12:45 PM, on duty 7:00, paid $24.29 for 115 miles, A. Gennette engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - Rio Grande
10/19/61 XW1 (extra west), power narrow gauge class K-36 2-8-2 486, local freight rate, marked on Alamosa 11:00 AM, ran lite, marked off Chama 9:10 PM, on duty 10:10, paid $30.16 for 147 miles, C.T. Sisemore engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Re: C-420 Schematic Drawing
On Thursday, July 11, 2024 at 11:09:27 AM EDT, Sam <samuelbehlen@...> wrote:
Have you reached out to Alco Historic Photos? They have around 10000 drawings. You'll need a check and snailmail it though.
-- Ed Cox
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Re: C-420 Schematic Drawing
Have you reached out to Alco Historic Photos? They have around 10000 drawings. You'll need a check and snailmail it though.
|
Does anyone know were I can find a good schematic drawing of the Alco C-420?
Thanks.
Ed
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Dick Cooper Time Book - 1960s
4/12-27/61 Furloughed.
4/28/61 Plattsburg yard, power 4028, yard-local freight rate, marked on Plattsburg 11:00 PM, marked off Plattsburg 7:00 AM, on duty 8:00, paid $22.56 for 100 miles, A.J. Bombardier engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Dick Cooper Time Book - with E.B. King
6/28/64 Plattsburg yard, power 4119, yard-local freight rate, marked on Plattsburg 6:30 AM, marked off Plattsburg 2:30 PM, on duty 8:00, paid $22.56 for 100 miles, E.B. King engineer, Cooper fireman.
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Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
Ed I thought it had something to do with the Cherry Vally branch. Thank You Al ----------------------------------------- From: "Ed Cox via groups.io" To: " [email protected]" Cc: Sent: Tuesday July 9 2024 10:55:04AM Subject: Re: [DandH-Railroad] Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
Al,
I looked it up on the map. Dad
may have spelled it wrong. Hyndsville, NY is about halfway between
Cobleskill and Seward on the Cherry Valley branch.
Ed
On Tuesday, July 9, 2024 at 08:12:45 AM EDT, Al Zubal
<azubal@...> wrote:
Ed
Where is Hindsville? The only place I can think of is just
west of Cobleskill about where the Cherry valley branch left the
main.
Thank you
Al
-----------------------------------------
From: "Ed Cox via groups.io"
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday July 9 2024 7:08:23AM
Subject: [DandH-Railroad] Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s
3/31-4/1/53 Layed in.
4/2/53 work Hindsville, power 3015, through freight rate, marked on
Mohawk 5:00 AM, marked off Mohawk 5:50 PM, on duty 12:50, paid
$26.03 for 191 miles, MaGee engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
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Ed Cox
Sam