开云体育

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 Groups.io

Re: Hell Gate

 

开云体育

D&H / CP? Hell Gate to access fresh Pond yard
?
please correct me if wrong on that
?
Bill
Hope everyone has a healthy new year
?

From: d. Sandow
Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 8:00 AM
Subject: [DandH-Railroad] Hell Gate
?
The Wikipedia article about Hell Gate Bridge includes this information
"Carries??? Amtrak Northeast Corridor; CSX/CP (D & H) freight"
Did D&H actually use Hell Gate Bridge?? And if so, how and why?
Or is this reference to D&H simply evolutionary misinformation?


Hell Gate

 

The Wikipedia article about Hell Gate Bridge includes this information
"Carries??? Amtrak Northeast Corridor; CSX/CP (D & H) freight"
Did D&H actually use Hell Gate Bridge?? And if so, how and why?
Or is this reference to D&H simply evolutionary misinformation?


Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - 1967

 

Tim,

To add to Gordon's excellent explanation;

When the jobs (WR1-RW6) crossed over two divisions one side (day 1) would be assigned to one division's crew and one side (day 2) would be assigned to the other division's crew. For example: Dick was assigned to WR1 from the R&S (3rd & 4rth sub-division) and headed north while, on the same day, the A&S crew (2nd sub-division) would be headed south on RW6. Because he was an "R&S" man, he could only bid on one side out of Oneonta.

Hope this doesn't make it more confusing.

Wishing you all a Happy, Healthy & Safe New Year.

Ed

On Wednesday, January 1, 2020, 01:27:37 AM UTC, Gordon Davids via Groups.Io <g.davids@...> wrote:


During most of the time that Dick Cooper and I were working on the D&H, there were two jobs that regularly worked between Oneonta and Whitehall.

The "Paper Train" was WR-1 Northward, later symbol WR-7, with the Canadian empties,and RW-6 Southward with the paper loads. Those trains used three crews, with home terminals at Rouses Point, Whitehall, Oneonta and Wilkes-Barre.

The local traffic and common freight for the north end moved in a second set of trains between Wilkes-Barre and Rouses Point. They were typically WR-3 Northward, and either RW-4 or RO-2 Southward, between Wilkes-Barre and Whitehall. The same trains north of Whitehall were designated as local freight, SC-19 and SC-20. For instance, most of the iron ore from Lyon Mountain and Port Henry moved on SC-20, which often handled more that 100 cars.

The D&H had three seniority districts for train service employees - Penn Division, A&S (Susquehanna Division), and R&S (Saratoga-Champlain Division). The Penn Division district was Wilkes-Barre to Nineveh Junction. The A&S was Binghamton to Albany (proper) and Mechanicville. The R&S was Albany and Troy to Rouses Point, including all of the branches.

Kenwood and Mohawk Yards were on the A&S. North Albany, Colonie and Mechanicville were on the R&S.

There were two interdivisional districts, where crews from two seniority districts operated on the same track. A&S and R&S crews operated between Whitehall and Oneonta. A&S and Penn crews operated between Oneonta and Wilkes-Barre. The work was balanced by a mileage equalization agreement.

I don't recall just how the crew assignments worked from day-to-day on WR-1/RW-6 and WR-3/RW-4, but I know that Dick worked all of them as an R&S fireman and engineer after he transferred from the A&S to the R&S roster. Sometimes his home terminal was Oneonta, sometimes Whitehall, and quite often Rouses Point. I also know that he caught some of those jobs out of Oneonta when he was still an A&S fireman.

Generally, when he was firing on WR-1/RW-6 with John Torrence Bowen, he was working out of Oneonta on the R&S roster. Likewise with Stan Chapman on WR-3/RW-4 or the equivalent. I know that he also worked with Anthony Farrone on those jobs as an A&S fireman out of Oneonta before he transferred to the R&S.

Dick always went to wherever the work called him, and he gave it his best, which was the best. He was a fine railroader and a good friend.

- Gordon Davids





On 2019-12-31 09:11, Tim Vincent wrote:
I notice that Cooper only seemed to work RW6 and WR1.
Were they the only thru jobs above Mohawk?


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Ed Cox via Groups.Io <edcox13@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 7:09 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [DandH-Railroad] Dick Cooper Time Book - 1967
???
9/4/67 stayed in Oneonta

9/5/67 went to Albany

9/6/67 Went to Steamtown in Bellows Falls, VT to visit Chris Ahrens friend and mechanical officer/engineer.

9/7/67 At Bellows Falls, bid in RW6/WR1 Rouses Point Terminal vacated by R.F. Manell.

9/8/67 RW6, power 5003-5013-5015-5016, through freight rate, marked on Rouses Point 9:15 PM, marked off Whitehall 1:20 AM, on duty 4:05, paid $27.52 for 115 miles, V.P. Laundrie engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox

-- 
Gordon A. Davids, P.E., WJ3K
201 Marie Ave
Severna Park, MD 21146
(410) 647-2956
g.davids <at> verizon.net

--
Ed Cox


Dick Cooper Time Book - Rio Grande

 

10/6/59 hostler, hostler rate, marked on Burnham 3:59 PM, marked off Burnham 1:45 AM, on duty 9:46, paid $28.52 for 133 miles with R.L. Burbank.
--
Ed Cox


Re: CP completes acquisition of Central Maine & Quebec | Trains Magazine

 
Edited

开云体育

When you stop and think about it, if it hadn't been for GRS mucking up the northeast, CP would likely have kept it's lines in the first place.
?
?
?
?
?

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill><> <madog@...>
Reply-To: <[email protected]>
To: DandH io <[email protected]>
Cc: dandhr <dandhrailroad@...>, Magic Triangle <[email protected]>, NERAIL <nerail@...>, <[email protected]>
Sent: 12/31/19 20:37:09
Subject: [DandH-Railroad] CP completes acquisition of Central Maine & Quebec | Trains Magazine

?
Subject: CP completes acquisition of Central Maine & Quebec | Trains Magazine


?
?
?


CP completes acquisition of Central Maine & Quebec | Trains Magazine

 
Edited

开云体育

?
Subject: CP completes acquisition of Central Maine & Quebec | Trains Magazine


?
?
?


Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - 1967

 

开云体育

During most of the time that Dick Cooper and I were working on the D&H, there were two jobs that regularly worked between Oneonta and Whitehall.

The "Paper Train" was WR-1 Northward, later symbol WR-7, with the Canadian empties,and RW-6 Southward with the paper loads. Those trains used three crews, with home terminals at Rouses Point, Whitehall, Oneonta and Wilkes-Barre.

The local traffic and common freight for the north end moved in a second set of trains between Wilkes-Barre and Rouses Point. They were typically WR-3 Northward, and either RW-4 or RO-2 Southward, between Wilkes-Barre and Whitehall. The same trains north of Whitehall were designated as local freight, SC-19 and SC-20. For instance, most of the iron ore from Lyon Mountain and Port Henry moved on SC-20, which often handled more that 100 cars.

The D&H had three seniority districts for train service employees - Penn Division, A&S (Susquehanna Division), and R&S (Saratoga-Champlain Division). The Penn Division district was Wilkes-Barre to Nineveh Junction. The A&S was Binghamton to Albany (proper) and Mechanicville. The R&S was Albany and Troy to Rouses Point, including all of the branches.

Kenwood and Mohawk Yards were on the A&S. North Albany, Colonie and Mechanicville were on the R&S.

There were two interdivisional districts, where crews from two seniority districts operated on the same track. A&S and R&S crews operated between Whitehall and Oneonta. A&S and Penn crews operated between Oneonta and Wilkes-Barre. The work was balanced by a mileage equalization agreement.

I don't recall just how the crew assignments worked from day-to-day on WR-1/RW-6 and WR-3/RW-4, but I know that Dick worked all of them as an R&S fireman and engineer after he transferred from the A&S to the R&S roster. Sometimes his home terminal was Oneonta, sometimes Whitehall, and quite often Rouses Point. I also know that he caught some of those jobs out of Oneonta when he was still an A&S fireman.

Generally, when he was firing on WR-1/RW-6 with John Torrence Bowen, he was working out of Oneonta on the R&S roster. Likewise with Stan Chapman on WR-3/RW-4 or the equivalent. I know that he also worked with Anthony Farrone on those jobs as an A&S fireman out of Oneonta before he transferred to the R&S.

Dick always went to wherever the work called him, and he gave it his best, which was the best. He was a fine railroader and a good friend.

- Gordon Davids





On 2019-12-31 09:11, Tim Vincent wrote:
I notice that Cooper only seemed to work RW6 and WR1.
Were they the only thru jobs above Mohawk?


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Ed Cox via Groups.Io <edcox13@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 7:09 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [DandH-Railroad] Dick Cooper Time Book - 1967
???
9/4/67 stayed in Oneonta

9/5/67 went to Albany

9/6/67 Went to Steamtown in Bellows Falls, VT to visit Chris Ahrens friend and mechanical officer/engineer.

9/7/67 At Bellows Falls, bid in RW6/WR1 Rouses Point Terminal vacated by R.F. Manell.

9/8/67 RW6, power 5003-5013-5015-5016, through freight rate, marked on Rouses Point 9:15 PM, marked off Whitehall 1:20 AM, on duty 4:05, paid $27.52 for 115 miles, V.P. Laundrie engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox

-- 
Gordon A. Davids, P.E., WJ3K
201 Marie Ave
Severna Park, MD 21146
(410) 647-2956
g.davids <at> verizon.net


Chazy Lake model

 

开云体育

seen at an NMRA convention in Atlanta 7-2013
?
?
IMG_5655


Re: Dick Cooper Time Book - 1967

 

开云体育

I notice that Cooper only seemed to work RW6 and WR1.
Were they the only thru jobs above Mohawk?


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Ed Cox via Groups.Io <edcox13@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 7:09 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [DandH-Railroad] Dick Cooper Time Book - 1967
?
9/4/67 stayed in Oneonta

9/5/67 went to Albany

9/6/67 Went to Steamtown in Bellows Falls, VT to visit Chris Ahrens friend and mechanical officer/engineer.

9/7/67 At Bellows Falls, bid in RW6/WR1 Rouses Point Terminal vacated by R.F. Manell.

9/8/67 RW6, power 5003-5013-5015-5016, through freight rate, marked on Rouses Point 9:15 PM, marked off Whitehall 1:20 AM, on duty 4:05, paid $27.52 for 115 miles, V.P. Laundrie engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox


Dick Cooper Time Book - 1967

 

9/4/67 stayed in Oneonta

9/5/67 went to Albany

9/6/67 Went to Steamtown in Bellows Falls, VT to visit Chris Ahrens friend and mechanical officer/engineer.

9/7/67 At Bellows Falls, bid in RW6/WR1 Rouses Point Terminal vacated by R.F. Manell.

9/8/67 RW6, power 5003-5013-5015-5016, through freight rate, marked on Rouses Point 9:15 PM, marked off Whitehall 1:20 AM, on duty 4:05, paid $27.52 for 115 miles, V.P. Laundrie engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox


Dick Cooper Time Book - with E.B. King

 

2/24/55 SC14 to WE & Ausable, power 4037, yard rate, marked on Plattsburgh 2:00 PM, marked off Plattsburgh 7:05 PM, on duty 5:05, paid $15.51 for 100 miles, E.B. King engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox


Dick Cooper Time Book - D&H Steam

 

1/14/52 AO2 helper, power K class 4-8-4 305, through freight rate, marked on Colonie 9:15 PM, marked off Oneonta 3:30 AM, on duty 6:15, paid $13.55 for 109 miles, A.T. Crouch Sr. engineer, Cooper fireman.

1/15/52 deadhead on 205, through freight rate, marked on Oneonta 9:15 AM, marked off Colonie 12:15 PM, on duty 3:00, paid $5.47 for 44 miles.
--
Ed Cox


Dick Cooper Time Book - Whitehall 1968

 

8/13/68 WR1, power 5014-5002-5003-5006-5008, through freight rate, marked on Oneonta 11:00 AM, marked off Whitehall 3:30 PM, on duty 4:30, paid $31.81 for 130 miles, J. Watanen engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox


Dick Cooper Time Book - 1975

 

8/24/75 WR1, power 2309-2301-2308-5004-N&W U30B 8522, through freight rate, marked on Oneonta 12:30 AM, marked off Whitehall 9:20 AM, on duty 8:50, paid $58.93 for 130 miles, Jack A. Farrell engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox


snowy sleet photo

 
Edited

开云体育

had to wrap my hanky around the camera for a grab shot
?

From: Richard E. Shivik
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2019 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [DandH-Railroad] 939/205
?
Nice shot at CPF 480, Bill.
?
Rick
?
On Thursday, December 26, 2019, 01:04:40 PM EST, Bill> <> wrote:
?
?
1233: 939/205? 9165, 4274 & 4152? 20/49? 4500 tn? 7727 ft? headed for the AveRunr MVL
1254: into 472 detr
1304: approach 480
?
Bill><>
?
In hopes that all had a joyous remembrance and family gathering and a safe return home.
?
10-23-2016
?
Glenridge Rd W/bd on Rotterdam Br,? this is not the bridge that is routinely hit, that one is on the CP/D&H Canadian Main out of Mohawk to Saratoga just a short bit farther west.? Some mis-guided new age Nimrod puppy tagged this bridge but the town (or most unlikely PanAm) painted it over and now it looks like someone tagged the bridge and covered it with paint that does not match the cement.? Cheap too!
Kids that do this “...should be buried with a sprig of holly stuck in their hearts”.
Scrooge
CPF 480 N/bd old signal mast... yep, that’s heavy sleet in the picture?? 2-2016


Re: 939/205

 
Edited

Nice shot at CPF 480, Bill.

Rick

On Thursday, December 26, 2019, 01:04:40 PM EST, Bill> <> wrote:


1233: 939/205? 9165, 4274 & 4152? 20/49? 4500 tn? 7727 ft? headed for the AveRunr MVL
1254: into 472 detr
1304: approach 480
?
Bill><>
?
In hopes that all had a joyous remembrance and family gathering and a safe return home.
?
10-23-2016
?
Glenridge Rd W/bd on Rotterdam Br,? this is not the bridge that is routinely hit, that one is on the CP/D&H Canadian Main out of Mohawk to Saratoga just a short bit farther west.? Some mis-guided new age Nimrod puppy tagged this bridge but the town (or most unlikely PanAm) painted it over and now it looks like someone tagged the bridge and covered it with paint that does not match the cement.? Cheap too!
Kids that do this “...should be buried with a sprig of holly stuck in their hearts”.
Scrooge
CPF 480 N/bd old signal mast... yep, that’s heavy sleet in the picture?? 2-2016
P1020255 (3)


939/205

 
Edited

开云体育

1233: 939/205? 9165, 4274 & 4152? 20/49? 4500 tn? 7727 ft? headed for the AveRunr MVL
1254: into 472 detr
1304: approach 480
?
Bill><>
?
In hopes that all had a joyous remembrance and family gathering and a safe return home.
?
10-23-2016
?
Glenridge Rd W/bd on Rotterdam Br,? this is not the bridge that is routinely hit, that one is on the CP/D&H Canadian Main out of Mohawk to Saratoga just a short bit farther west.? Some mis-guided new age Nimrod puppy tagged this bridge but the town (or most unlikely PanAm) painted it over and now it looks like someone tagged the bridge and covered it with paint that does not match the cement.? Cheap too!
Kids that do this “...should be buried with a sprig of holly stuck in their hearts”.
Scrooge
10-2016 misc 028
CPF 480 N/bd old signal mast... yep, that’s heavy sleet in the picture?? 2-2016


Dick Cooper Time Book - 1950s

 

6/21/52 Lower End yard, power 3012, yard rate, marked on Mechanicville 11:00 PM, marked off Mechanicville 7:00 AM, on duty 8:00, paid $14.55 for 100 miles, E. Warner engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox


Dick Cooper Time Book - Guilford Error

 

12/17/84 regular day off

12/18/84 PYRP, power B&M 304-D&H 4318-410, through freight rate, marked on Mechanicville 10:00 PM, taxi to Mohawk, marked off Rouses Point 4:50 AM, on duty 6:50, paid $197.37 for 190 miles, Cooper engineer, no fireman, M.J. "Pooper" Willett conductor.

Merry Christmas to all!

--
Ed Cox


Dick Cooper Time Book - 1960s

 

3/21/60 layed in

3/22/60 SC15, power 4049, yard rate, marked on Plattsburgh 7:30 AM, marked off Plattsburgh 6:40 PM, on duty 11:10, paid $32.48 for 153 miles, E.B. King engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox